Groundhog Day on Connolly/Rosslare Line

Judgement Day

Well here we are, well over a year since the 22000-class railcars were supposed to appear on Connolly/Rosslare services and not one in sight yet but someone has leaked details of the new timetable due to come in to force on September 27th see below. Trains that leave before boats dock, trains that do not connect with each other, trains that you can travel to places on but cannot come back from! And it cost all of us millions to implement. It's long overdue that IE's C.E.O, Dick Fearn, and the Minister for Transport got their P45s and while Noel will get his at the next election there is no sign that Dick is going anywhere soon. Have a look at this 'confidential' document but make sure you are sitting down when you do - it's a cracker!!

road_high

I'm not that familiar with the timetabling on this route but God it does seem painfully slow indeed. And is such a shame the trains do not connect with ferries, not too much to ask it. God forbid they might get a few extra passangers; prob too much of an inconvience for IR

Has the station in Rosslare moved a bit too? Was down there last week and looked like it had.

Judgement Day

Yes, the station has been relocated even further away from the boat - another masterstroke of planning by IE. Not that it really matters as they have managed to lose almost all of the foot passenger traffic anyway.

road_high

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, the station has been relocated even further away from the boat - another masterstroke of planning by IE. Not that it really matters as they have managed to lose almost all of the foot passenger traffic anyway.

I think people from Dublin and the east coast would use the ferry if the train connected properly and reliably with the ferry. If it were promoted and tickets were part of your ferry ticket..

I see what you mean exactly. For instance the 18.30 from Connolly trundles into Rosslare at 21.30; the Stena Super to Fishguard leaves at 21.15
That is just one example of what you are talking about JD, presume most of the others are the same. 3 hours to go from Connolly to Rosslare; that's shockingly slow btw.

DWCommuter

Only last week did I have to put my cousin off doing a rail and sail gig through Pembroke/Rosslare. Why?

1. The connections are bonkers
2. The journey time is 19th century and the rolling stock is embarrassing.

She's driving.

IE are blatantly trying to kill this line south of Gorey. Recession will aid them. Im going out on a limb and predicting the end of Rosslare - Gorey, Ballybrophy - Killonan, Rosslare - Limerick Junction. Sorry.

Im a pro rail person. I don't need to justify that, but Im practical in my approach. Once again I say this....how ****ing crazy is it that we spend 100 million on reopening the WRC and in fairness, Midleton, while operating railways are being run into the ground. If the Government spent more time sorting out IE rather than placating WOT and their shower of Knock shrine lick arses along with voters in certain areas, we just might see things happen in an organised and constructive fashion. As it stands, IE run two railways, thats the one for themselves and the one for the DOT. What a pity the one for existing passengers is sadly lacking.

road_high

Would be such a pity to see Gorey-Rosslare close altogether, but with times and timetabling like this who would be surprised? Unlike the WRC wich trundles through no mans land for much of it, this line has a decent population base and a ferry port at its end.
i don't think it will close tbh (and hope it doesn't), probably the most picturesque rail line in the country as well.

100 million euro could probably ahve transformed this route and would be far more viable than that poorly engineered rehash of cheap 19th century rail in the West. It is Dublin commuter belt territory afterall.

road_high

And I saw they use those Commuter rail cars on this route too. Hardly the most comfortable for a journey that they drag on for 3 hours

I don't think that's even an average of 40 miles per hour :rolleyes:. The other mainlines are almost Rolls Royce in comparison.

L1011

I thought the line to Rosslare couldn't be closed without consent of the British parliament? Ditto the line to Fishguard the other site and the Dail...

I did the rail/sail/rail alternative to a flight back from Cardiff when I was 17 because I didn't have the cash for a hotel for the night and this meant I could sleep on the boat/train. Horrific mistake... I'd have found the £50 or whatever a dosshouse guesthouse cost if I'd known how bad the Rosslare->Dublin leg was going to be !

DWCommuter

MYOB wrote: »

I thought the line to Rosslare couldn't be closed without consent of the British parliament? Ditto the line to Fishguard the other site and the Dail...

I did the rail/sail/rail alternative to a flight back from Cardiff when I was 17 because I didn't have the cash for a hotel for the night and this meant I could sleep on the boat/train. Horrific mistake... I'd have found the £50 or whatever a dosshouse guesthouse cost if I'd known how bad the Rosslare->Dublin leg was going to be !

Its the waterford connection to the Rosslare line that was tied up in that malarkey, but apparently CIE done a deal years ago to gain ownership. Im open to correction though.

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

Its the waterford connection to the Rosslare line that was tied up in that malarkey, but apparently CIE done a deal years ago to gain ownership. Im open to correction though.

As far as I can ascertain the Fishguard &Rosslare Railways & Harbour Company still exists and is jointly owned by Stena Line and CIE, while the Port of Rosslare is owned by CIE/IE. Anyway for all the good it will do I am going to pursue Dick Fearn and our local (and useless) TDs about the timetable changes on Tuesday and will report back here.

101sean

Fishguard & Rosslare Railways and Harbours Company inc 1894. The GWR, FRRHC and GSWR agreed in 1898 to set up sea route and rail link to Waterford. As far as I can tell it still exists with equal shares held by IE and Stena Line. Going by the ongoing changes at Rosslare I suspect both parties regard it as an embarrasment they'd rather be shot of.

Along with removal of the station to a remote site, all the passenger walkways from ship to terminal are being demolished as the foot passengers are being transfered by coach (been surprised at how may on some trips, obviously not using the trains!)

As a long term user of Rosslare (can remember my father's car being craned out of the hold in 1964 and with the early Ro-ro ferry's cars having to drive on to flat wagons for transfer off the pier by train) I'm very saddened by the continuing run down of the rail services here. Did it by train a couple of tmes in the 70s, once via Rosslare, the other via Dun Laoghaire (Carlisle pier). Wouldn't consider attempting it now.

Just got this telling statement off the IRRS site from IE's man responsible for resignalling

Rosslare Europort When the re-signalling project was being designed a number of issues were raised with the existing station area within the Port of Rosslare Harbour. With few cross-channel passengers using the rail service, the need to streamline the flow of road traffic to and from the ferries and the cost of retaining the existing layout resulted in a decision to relocate the station. It was decided the turntable should be retained for steam-hauled trains. However, the salty sea spray of more than a century had eroded the side plates of the turntable to such an extent that they had large rust holes. The IÉ bridge gang repaired these to give the turntable many more years of useful life.

The new station is a simple affair with a 146m platform constructed of 57 pre-cast concrete ‘U’ shape units of 2.5m width. A pre-cast concrete lid is placed on the ‘U’ sections ready to accept the coping stones, piping for services, back fill and tarmac surface, as well as 1.8m high palisade back fence. A dedicated pathway leads from the seaward end of the platform to the footpath leading to the main terminal building. Where the new footpath crosses the lines to the turntable there is a gated level crossing protected by signals. When a locomotive requires access to the turntable a local operator attends at the level crossing and locks the gates against the pathway and places the Fortress keys of the gates in the receptacle close by. The Signalman can then signal the locomotive to or from the turntable.

The new platform can accommodate two 3-car 22000-class railcars. The adjacent running line terminates in a “run off” with a friction buffer stop. There is a crossover to the up loop siding and turntable. At the Dublin end, a crossover to the siding also provides the potential for a short 3-carriage siding to facilitate swapping around the Dublin and Waterford trains. The loop siding can accommodate eight-railcar trains.

The new station is nearer the village of Rosslare Harbour from where the majority of passengers come from, though it is about 8-minutes walk from the shipping terminal

The last paragraph is a masterpiece!

bmaxi

At least it's good to see a mid morning service, up to now if you didn't get the 08.50 from Gorey you had to wait 'til 14.14 for the next train. I can't understand why they pulled the 14.14 back to Arklow as in my experience it was relatively well supported in Gorey.
I wonder what's the chances of a future shuttle service from Gorey to connect with Darts in Greystones as my information, from I.E., is that it is the Dart that has the detrimental effect on the service.
Rail is losing out big time to buses from Gorey. New timetables from Bus Eireann, Ardcavan and Wexford Bus mean 30+ services a day with a travel time of 11/2 hours or less.

Heisenberg1

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well here we are, well over a year since the 22000-class railcars were supposed to appear on Connolly/Rosslare services and not one in sight yet but someone has leaked details of the new timetable due to come in to force on September 27th see below. Trains that leave before boats dock, trains that do not connect with each other, trains that you can travel to places on but cannot come back from! And it cost all of us millions to implement. It's long overdue that IE's C.E.O, Dick Fearn, and the Minister for Transport got their P45s and while Noel will get his at the next election there is no sign that Dick is going anywhere soon. Have a look at this 'confidential' document but make sure you are sitting down when you do - it's a cracker!!

but the train never connected to the ferry as far as i know

101sean

They haven't for a long time, days of the boat trains dissappered years ago. Live on in some train names in the UK but they don't wait for the ferries any more. Mind you, more chance of not hanging around all day for a train in the UK, Fishguard, Holyhead and Pembroke Dock can justify regular services without the ferries.

For anyone nostalgic about throwing up on the crossing, The Ships of Rosslare Harbour is a good read.

Maverick88

Paddington- Fishguard- Rosslare-Wexford is a journey I did many times. I would be at platform 8 of Paddinton station at 8pm on the evening of breaking up for summer holidays for six weeks with my grandparents in either Wexford or Enniscorthy.

Well remember coming around the sea wall of Rosslare to see the Dublin and Waterford trains sitting side by side (when the trains ran right down to beside the ferries) waiting for the ferry to dock.

Also the journey back when the train from Wexford would run down the old wooden works at Wexford quay towards Rosslare to connect with the evening ferry to Fishguard.

Judgement Day

luzon wrote: »

but the train never connected to the ferry as far as i know

Well you obviously you don't know much! Of course the trains served the ferries but not in recent years as CIE does not cater for ferry passengers, ordinary passengers or freight as it is run for the benefit of its employees, management and appalling unions.

Some gems from the 2002 IE pocket timetable
'Ferries operating from Rosslare Europort may not wait in the event of late running trains.'
About the 18.30 ex. Connolly it states 'Does not connect with the 21.50 Stena Line Super Ferry to Fishguard. Intercity passengers holding rail tickets from Dublin to Fishguard and beyond will have their tickets accepted on the the 17.45 Busaras/Rosslare Bus Eireann service.'

Contrast this with ever expanding Bus Eireann service to Rosslare Harbour where the 16.00 departure ex.Busaras which is clearly marked as 'providing connection for boat departure.'

I seem to recall that the worthless 1972 McKinsey report mentioned that the majority of passengers passing through Rosslare Harbour were foot passengers and almost at once CIE set about downgrading the rail services. While obviously the advent of budget airlines, changing travel patterns and sun holidays have had a detrimental effect on ferry traffic, Bus Eireann seem to be able to carry plenty of passengers to and from the port. The bottom line is that the present status quo at Rosslare is unacceptable and CIE/IE should be going flat-out to promote the port as a gateway to Ireland. There are hundreds of thousands of holiday makers in the UK and France who could be enticed to Ireland via Rosslare - foot passengers, backpackers, walkers, cyclists - somebody needs to get off their arses and do something drastic and soon. :mad::mad::mad:

101sean

I can recall boarding the Holyhead boat at night in 1979 after coming off the boat train that there was a very long queue of foot passengers. I went first class and somewhat embarrasingly walked past them all (it was minimal extra cost on the ferry but no-one thought to do it, assumed it would be much dearer). When we arrived at Dun Laoghaire there was a train for Connolly and Heuston waiting on the pier at 6.45 am.

Can vaguely remember a return to the UK in 1966 by train after my Father's car terminally broke down in Tipp, even that went by train to be repatriated!

Heisenberg1

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well you obviously you don't know much! Of course the trains served the ferries but not in recent years as CIE does not cater for ferry passengers, ordinary passengers or freight as it is run for the benefit of its employees, management and appalling unions.

Some gems from the 2002 IE pocket timetable
'Ferries operating from Rosslare Europort may not wait in the event of late running trains.'
About the 18.30 ex. Connolly it states 'Does not connect with the 21.50 Stena Line Super Ferry to Fishguard. Intercity passengers holding rail tickets from Dublin to Fishguard and beyond will have their tickets accepted on the the 17.45 Busaras/Rosslare Bus Eireann service.'

Contrast this with ever expanding Bus Eireann service to Rosslare Harbour where the 16.00 departure ex.Busaras which is clearly marked as 'providing connection for boat departure.'

I seem to recall that the worthless 1972 McKinsey report mentioned that the majority of passengers passing through Rosslare Harbour were foot passengers and almost at once CIE set about downgrading the rail services. While obviously the advent of budget airlines, changing travel patterns and sun holidays have had a detrimental effect on ferry traffic, Bus Eireann seem to be able to carry plenty of passengers to and from the port. The bottom line is that the present status quo at Rosslare is unacceptable and CIE/IE should be going flat-out to promote the port as a gateway to Ireland. There are hundreds of thousands of holiday makers in the UK and France who could be enticed to Ireland via Rosslare - foot passengers, backpackers, walkers, cyclists - somebody needs to get off their arses and do something drastic and soon. :mad::mad::mad:

Just curious when did the train connect in with ferry??

Judgement Day

luzon wrote: »

Just curious when did the train connect in with ferry??

I am looking at the 1977 timetable which shows the 14.30 sailing from Fishguard arriving at Rosslare at 18.00 with a train to Limerick departing at 18.40 and a train to Dublin at 18.50 - will that suffice for you? Or in my 1960 timetable which shows a boat from Fishguard arriving at 5.30am with a connection to Dublin at 6.40am and a 6.15am connection to Cork. OK - a history lesson but pointless.

bmaxi

Judgement Day wrote: »

I am looking at the 1977 timetable which shows the 14.30 sailing from Fishguard arriving at Rosslare at 18.00 with a train to Limerick departing at 18.40 and a train to Dublin at 18.50 - will that suffice for you? Or in my 1960 timetable which shows a boat from Fishguard arriving at 5.30am with a connection to Dublin at 6.40am and a 6.15am connection to Cork. OK - a history lesson but pointless.

I'm interested in old bus and rail timetables, JD. Are these physical timetables or are they available online?

Judgement Day

My timetables are the paper type. I don't think they are available online. eBay is the best source for old Irish railway timetables and they vary considerably in price depending on age and condition. Martin Bott of Bott Books in Lancashire is another good source - he has a searchable website - I think it is www.bottbooks.com, if not try googling his name.

Judgement Day

Not totally related to my original post, but I had reason to visit Enniscorthy station tonight (about 19.30) to check on ticket prices to Westport. I had intended checking on the ATVM and at the ticket office but the waiting room was locked, as were the toilets and the station was unmanned! This despite trains from Rosslare and Connolly being due at 19.42 and 19.39 respectively. As it happened the Rosslare train arrived early and disgorged quite a number of Dublin bound passengers on the Up platform and was joined a few minutes later by the train from Dublin on the Down platform. Again, quite a number of Wexford/Rosslare bound passengers disembarked. There was no member of either train crew in evidence on the platform where a certain amount of confusion reigned as passengers weren't sure whether or not to cross the footbridge, and many passengers waiting on the Down platform incorrectly assumed that the train from Dublin was going to proceed to Rosslare. Still no sign of the depotman, ticket checker or, indeed, any East European security staff directing passengers as to where to go or which train was going where. A total shambles! After fielding a number of anxious passenger enquiries my son and I beat a hasty retreat, still none the wiser about fares to Westport - my second attempt!

The whole station resembled the Marie Celeste with brambles starting to takeover the little used Up platform with its quaint, semi-derelict waiting room. At the northern end of the station the village idiots are removing the new timber fencing along the back of the platforms at an alarming rate. The new, free standing advertising display unit on the Down platform now advertises the IRA and along with two rotten wooden mails trollies (a monument to another lost traffic) does little to add to the ambience of the station. Near the entrance an indecipherable timetable poster and two Swine Flu posters complete the passenger experience. "Abandon all hope all ye who enter here". God save us from CIE! :mad:

Maverick88

JD- Remember that early morning arrival at Rosslare very well and the waiting around for the train to go.

Enniscorthy used to be a great station, always well kept and with hanging baskets by the waiting room. Is the station unmanned now?

Judgement Day

No - the station has a roster of three staff with one supposedly on duty when the station is open. However, in common with most rural stations Enniscorthy is now entering the Twilight Zone which will see the opening and closing of the stations handled by private security firms as is already happening on the reopened Cobh Junction/Midleton line. The unions will kick up a bit until their members get a decent golden handshake but the public will just get the usual two fingers from CIE/IE management.

L1011

Judgement Day wrote: »

There are hundreds of thousands of holiday makers in the UK and France who could be enticed to Ireland via Rosslare - foot passengers, backpackers, walkers, cyclists - somebody needs to get off their arses and do something drastic and soon. :mad::mad::mad:

Budget airlines have destroyed all of those bar the cyclist market unfortunately - I take the ferry to the UK frequently (far more frequently than I'd want to!) and the foot passengers on the Holyhead->Dublin Port route are down to a handful any time of the day/year I've taken it.

Sail-Rail combos used to be popular because they were many, many times cheaper than flying - so much so as to make the time difference immaterial, cause we were all fairly skint at the time too. Now taking the ferry is the more expensive option, and theres times where I'm beginning to think flying and hiring a car is even cheaper than paying Irish Ferries to carry my own one!

Zebra3

Totally reading some of the stuff above.

Has anyone ever got the train from Copenhagen to Hamburg (or vice verse)?

That's how boat and train connections are done!!!! I nearly fainted the first time I done that trip.

Cookie_Monster

Saw one of the 22ks on the (Rosslare) line a couple of weeks ago, filling in or testing presumably. I was in a garden in Bayview that backs onto the tracks. In the hour or two I was outside a lot of Darts and one 22k went by. The 22 is so so much quieter than the Dart, i was genuinly amazed. No diesel rumble or squeeky wheels like the Darts.

Not really relevant to the debate but thought I'd mention it anywya:P

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Saw one of the 22ks on the (Rosslare) line a couple of weeks ago, filling in or testing presumably. I was in a garden in Bayview that backs onto the tracks. In the hour or two I was outside a lot of Darts and one 22k went by. The 22 is so so much quieter than the Dart, i was genuinly amazed. No diesel rumble or squeeky wheels like the Darts.

Not really relevant to the debate but thought I'd mention it anywya:P

There are two services currently operated by 22K units:
0400 Empty Connolly/Gorey and 0600 return
1640 Connolly/Gorey and 1923 return

I suspect that you saw one of these.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

1640 Connolly/Gorey and 1923 return

It was the return of this one I reckon then. bout 8.30 ish sounds about right, I don't remember much about that night much later after that:pac:

The GF was convinced it was electric it was so quiet. I laughed at her and explained what it was, but then again I'm a bit of a train nerd.

Judgement Day

More off topic Rosslare line info here, hot from today's Enniscorthy Guardian. What more can I say? Ireland - Land of Saints & Scholars - we've sure come a long way.

DRUGGIES 001.JPG

Judgement Day

MYOB wrote: »

Budget airlines have destroyed all of those bar the cyclist market unfortunately - I take the ferry to the UK frequently (far more frequently than I'd want to!) and the foot passengers on the Holyhead->Dublin Port route are down to a handful any time of the day/year I've taken it.

Sail-Rail combos used to be popular because they were many, many times cheaper than flying - so much so as to make the time difference immaterial, cause we were all fairly skint at the time too. Now taking the ferry is the more expensive option, and theres times where I'm beginning to think flying and hiring a car is even cheaper than paying Irish Ferries to carry my own one!

How is it then that Bus Eireann now operate 20 return services from Dublin to Rosslare daily - presumably they are not running empty?

L1011

Judgement Day wrote: »

How is it then that Bus Eireann now operate 20 return services from Dublin to Rosslare daily - presumably they are not running empty?

I've a mate who uses them frequently as an effective "night bus" to Gorey. Theres not many holding on past Gorey any time he's used it; and that'd usually be at a time where there'd be passengers for the early boats going down.

Also, each of those buses only carries 53 people - not the x00's that a train could!

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

Budget airlines have destroyed all of those bar the cyclist market unfortunately - I take the ferry to the UK frequently (far more frequently than I'd want to!) and the foot passengers on the Holyhead->Dublin Port route are down to a handful any time of the day/year I've taken it.

Sail-Rail combos used to be popular because they were many, many times cheaper than flying - so much so as to make the time difference immaterial, cause we were all fairly skint at the time too. Now taking the ferry is the more expensive option, and theres times where I'm beginning to think flying and hiring a car is even cheaper than paying Irish Ferries to carry my own one!

fly/hire is probably cheaper than the ferry if you incude petrol, depending on where you are going. The ferry seems inhabited mostly by those with young kids and oldies who possibly dont like flying.

Carawaystick

Judgement Day wrote: »

How is it then that Bus Eireann now operate 20 return services from Dublin to Rosslare daily - presumably they are not running empty?

I dunno, maybe cos they're faster, cheaper or better?
or all three.

IÉ killed the line by closing it down at weekends for about a year for the dart upgrade and then by using crap carriages.
Meanwhile the N11 - soon to be M11 was built. Also Busses will be legally allowed travel at 100km/h soon, reducing timetabled times from Arklow to Dublin.

Cookie_Monster

Carawaystick wrote: »

Also Busses will be legally allowed travel at 100km/h soon, reducing timetabled times from Arklow to Dublin.

Is that a change from the 80kph passanger carrying limit, I presume it is?
Do you know if it will also apply to trucks or are they 100 already?

Not that I've ever been on a bus, private or public who has stuck to that.

bmaxi

Carawaystick wrote: »

I dunno, maybe cos they're faster, cheaper or better?
or all three.

.

Yes, all three. I have been a regular commuter Dublin/Gorey since I moved to Gorey some years ago, and the recent improvements to the bus schedule have made it a no brainer. The frustration of sitting for maybe 20 minutes in Arklow or Rathdrum waiting for the down train, which has probably been delayed by the Dart and then the wait outside Bray or Greystones for a suitable gap in the Dart schedule ( it's like waiting for take off clearance at an airport) followed by the crawl from Killiney behind some late running Dart. Add this to the uncomfortable trains and you can see the problem.


Meanwhile the N11 - soon to be M11 was built. Also Busses will be legally allowed travel at 100km/h soon, reducing timetabled times from Arklow to Dublin

I've been overtaken, while driving at 100 kph, by buses on this route .

Carawaystick

The legal speedlimit change I've read somewhere on boards.ie recently, I've no definite source. I understood it to be for coaches only, and only on Motorways.

When I used the busses, BÉ's busses seemed to be limited at 100kmh, they had metric speedos back in the mid 90's anyway.

I'm only saying the change to the law will allow BÉ to change the timetable to reflect reality of getting from Arklow to Dublin from the current hour and a half or so.
This will make the bus service more attractive by making it look like a shorter time to a prospective customer looking at the timetable.

L1011

A BE bus pulled over to let me pass when he was already doing 110km/h or so (on a 100km/h limit road, not that I'm commenting on that as I was passing him ) so clearly the limiters are a bit faulty at times!

Vic_08

Judgement Day wrote: »

How is it then that Bus Eireann now operate 20 return services from Dublin to Rosslare daily - presumably they are not running empty?

In fact they are. Arklow, Gorey, Enniscorthy and Wexford are popular locations and it is traffic to these towns that fill the buses. Wexford to Rosslare is by far the least used section on the route and that is mostly locals from the 3 villages in the area going to/from Wexford. It would not be unusual for the bus to be empty arriving and leaving the Harbour even on departures that connect with the ferries.

Vic_08

MYOB wrote: »

Budget airlines have destroyed all of those bar the cyclist market unfortunately - I take the ferry to the UK frequently (far more frequently than I'd want to!) and the foot passengers on the Holyhead->Dublin Port route are down to a handful any time of the day/year I've taken it.

It is not just Irish Rail that have cut back on ferry connections, the UK rail operators have all but abandoned them as well.

As of last year there is now no train connecting with the early morning (12.30) ferrry arrival at Holyhead, first train out of there is now at 4.30. Back in the 80s there were up to 4 seperate trains leaving Holyhead in the early hours to cater for the passengers off the ferry.

Fishguard still has it's 2 return boat trains although they are now local connections to Carmarthen/Swansea rather than the through trains to London that used to run.

Judgement Day

Vic_08 wrote: »

It is not just Irish Rail that have cut back on ferry connections, the UK rail operators have all but abandoned them as well.

As of last year there is now no train connecting with the early morning (12.30) ferrry arrival at Holyhead, first train out of there is now at 4.30. Back in the 80s there were up to 4 seperate trains leaving Holyhead in the early hours to cater for the passengers off the ferry.

Fishguard still has it's 2 return boat trains although they are now local connections to Carmarthen/Swansea rather than the through trains to London that used to run.

As I have not travelled through Holyhead for some years I am not in a position to give a personal account of rail connections there, but a cursory internet search produced to following which seems to show plenty of trains for the morning time you refer to. Ok so you may have to change at Chester on some of them but there are services a plenty unlike on this side of the pond. You might not have heard but it was announced today that UK visitor numbers are massively down for 2008/09, so instead of accepting the inevitability of decreasing numbers travelling by ferry something should be done to drum up business.

L1011

the early morning ferry arrives at 00:30 not 12:30 JD!

Judgement Day

MYOB wrote: »

the early morning ferry arrives at 00:30 not 12:30 JD!

You're right of course and I had reason to use it on many occasions but I assumed from the posting that this was another ferry arriving after midday - as I say I have not been through Holyhead for some years (2000 was the last time.)

Cookie_Monster

MYOB wrote: »

A BE bus pulled over to let me pass when he was already doing 110km/h or so (on a 100km/h limit road, not that I'm commenting on that as I was passing him ) so clearly the limiters are a bit faulty at times!

Personnally I believe those fitted limiters (be it truck or bus) are a myth. All it takes is a drive alsong any natioanl route / motorway and you'll see plenty of them going well over 100kph

bmaxi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Personnally I believe those fitted limiters (be it truck or bus) are a myth. All it takes is a drive alsong any natioanl route / motorway and you'll see plenty of them going well over 100kph

Some limiters are easily disabled, drivers doing this are taking a risk but the chances of being discovered are small enough to make it worthwhile. Trucks coming from abroad, particularly UK, may not be limited to 100 kph.

Cookie_Monster

Friend of mine used to live in UAE, apparently if trucks went over the limit there (80 or 100 kph) it was an immediate ban and prison for a year or two.

Vic_08

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Personnally I believe those fitted limiters (be it truck or bus) are a myth.

And some people believe magical fairies live in their gardens, doesn't make it true.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

All it takes is a drive alsong any natioanl route / motorway and you'll see plenty of them going well over 100kph

That is simply not the case. I drive buses and coaches across the country, within the Bus Eireann fleet a bus without a working limiter is very rare. I have driven only one that would go significantly above 100kph and that topped out at around 110 so in that case the limiter had malfunctioned rather than having been disabled.

While driving at max speed (approx 100kph) I am not often overtaken by another coach or truck, it has happened on a few occasions but it is extremely rare.

bmaxi wrote: »

Some limiters are easily disabled, drivers doing this are taking a risk but the chances of being discovered are small enough to make it worthwhile. Trucks coming from abroad, particularly UK, may not be limited to 100 kph.

Disabling limiters on older vehicles would be relatively easy but on newer ones it is all integrated into the engine management and digital tacograph systems. The digital tacograph is another obstacle to tampering with limiters as it records any instances of "overspeeding". The data from each driver's tacograph card is required to be periodically downloaded and sent to the licencing authority, a driver regularly found to be speeding would be quickly flagged up.

Speed limiters are set to uniform EU regulations, trucks to 90kph/56mph coaches to 100kph/62mph.

bmaxi

Vic_08 wrote: »

And some people believe magical fairies live in their gardens, doesn't make it true.



That is simply not the case. I drive buses and coaches across the country, within the Bus Eireann fleet a bus without a working limiter is very rare. I have driven only one that would go significantly above 100kph and that topped out at around 110 so in that case the limiter had malfunctioned rather than having been disabled.

While driving at max speed (approx 100kph) I am not often overtaken by another coach or truck, it has happened on a few occasions but it is extremely rare.




Disabling limiters on older vehicles would be relatively easy but on newer ones it is all integrated into the engine management and digital tacograph systems. The digital tacograph is another obstacle to tampering with limiters as it records any instances of "overspeeding". The data from each driver's tacograph card is required to be periodically downloaded and sent to the licencing authority, a driver regularly found to be speeding would be quickly flagged up.

Speed limiters are set to uniform EU regulations, trucks to 90kph/56mph coaches to 100kph/62mph.

I have seen some ingenious methods employed by truck drivers to get around tachos and speed limiters. Some methods involved simply removing a fuse, or turning off the engine, others and I won't go into them, were particularly inventive.
I drove trucks all over the country for years and have been stopped at checkpoints and weighbridges lots of times. I've had tank tested, weight checked, body and chassis inspected but never once was I asked for my tachograph.
I drove one particular Daf 2500 which had a limiter fitted but would cheerfully cruise at 66mph, this truck was tested and calibrated annually. :eek:
I'm sure the standard of tachos and limiters has improved since I drove trucks but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of getting around them with the right know-how and a laptop .
.

Cookie_Monster

Vic_08 wrote: »

And some people believe magical fairies live in their gardens, doesn't make it true.

:rolleyes:

Vic_08 wrote: »

That is simply not the case.

How would you know what I see on a daily basis?

Vic_08 wrote: »

Speed limiters are set to uniform EU regulations, trucks to 90kph/56mph coaches to 100kph/62mph.

I work for a major retailer in Ireland and know for a fact they only limit all of their trucks (50+) to 95. Granted it's only an extra 5kph but if they are willing to plainly state that fact, kinda says it all.

Judgement Day

Any chance that we could stick to the topic? Every damn post I start wanders off topic after a few posts. Please start your own post about truck governors or what ever turns you on. Please!!!!!

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any chance that we could stick to the topic? Every damn post I start wanders off topic after a few posts. Please start your own post about truck governors or what ever turns you on. Please!!!!!

Thats what happens with discussions:D

Anyway...railways... trains... rosslare.....