Personal Handgun Imports

Cass

Originally posted by Sparks
From the Department of Justice today:
Quote:
As you know the new system starts tomorrow on 1 August 2009.

The Garda Commissioner started issuing extension letters earlier this week to all existing licence holders and I understand that the new application form is up on the Garda website.




A range of documents will be signed by the Minister tomorrow to give effect to the following

• Two fees order (one for the outsourced fees and one on for the non outsourced ones);
• Commencement Order for the remaining elements of CJA 2006 (28, 30, 32 and 33);
• Commencement Order for substantial parts of Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (sections 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 37, 39, 40 (part), 41, 42, 43 and 44);
• New target shooting Clubs S.I.;
• New secure accommodation regulations for storage of firearms.

Please note that the personal import ban does not come into effect for some
time yet because we will have to address in the context of the EU Weapons Directive so sections 34, 36 and 38 aren't being commenced just yet.

Copies of the S.I.s will be available early next week.

We will address the ranges S.I. and an amended restricted firearms S.I. in due course.

I know the question has been asked about the legality of importing handguns etc before the publishing of the CJB and a few questions have been asked about getting a license. My query is a little a bit of both with a new query.

I applied for an article 7 about 5 months ago and was granted it by my local super. Got a letter of recommendation from him to send to Dublin. Got my license stamped and changed and only had to wait on the import licence. Was refused on the basis that i had no valid reason for having a 9mm handgun. I'm a member of a rifle pistol range, i've taken the competency course, practise every weekend at various distances on targets with my current 9mm. Both myself and my father are licensed on the one handgun so i wanted a second one to lessen the burden on my existing gun. All this i put into a letter with the application for the import licence but still i was refused. When i got talking to a Garda he told me they are to refuse all import application in expectation of the new CJB.

A)With the above statement from the DOJ do i have a legitimate case for appeal.
B)Also my local dealer has got in the exact make model and calibre i was trying to import. If i re-apply and am granted my new 3 year license what is the procedure for changing firearms. I can't get it stamped like before. Should i change now and put new gun details on new application. Opinions please.

Thanks.

rrpc

I'd say wait. Still not sure about the imports situation and as you have a licence, apply for the new one and see how that goes first.

The way things are there are no guarantees that you'll get the new one, so don't go spending any more money.

Sparks

The situation on the imports is that it's the same as it was before the CJA2009 was passed, for now at least. If your licence is renewed, just go get the thing (you don't require a DoJ import licence for bringing your own firearm into the country).

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

The situation on the imports is that it's the same as it was before the CJA2009 was passed, for now at least. If your licence is renewed, just go get the thing (you don't require a DoJ import licence for bringing your own firearm into the country).

Just to clarify Sparks when the import license was refused i got the license amended back to my original handgun. The records in Dublin would still show me owning and holding that gun as the import failed.

Sparks

In that case ezri, you'd be applying for a licence for a 9mm after Nov.18 and it'll just be dismissed.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

In that case ezri, you'd be applying for a licence for a 9mm after Nov.18 and it'll just be dismissed.

He has a licence and it was issued before 19/11. It's a shared licence on his father's pistol (am I right?).

In that case, he should be applying to have it renewed in the new round. After that he can see about substituting another firearm.

Sparks

If a substitution like that works, that's centerfire pistols back in rrpc - you just licence Person B on Person A's pre-Nov.18 centerfire pistol and then do a substitution.

Cass

I have my license 3 years now and have changed guns twice. The last time was to license the same gun as my father and i sold my own (about 18 months ago). If i already have a license and am deemed "fit" to be re-issued with a new 3 year license and according to the statement you (sparks) posted from the DOJ about a delay in personal import ban then what (legally or otherwise) is to stop me from buying a gun already imported or importing my own. Its the same pulse number on my license, same make, calibre, roughly same model, so how could i be refused permission to import/buy a new gun.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

If a substitution like that works, that's centerfire pistols back in rrpc - you just licence Person B on Person A's pre-Nov.18 centerfire pistol and then do a substitution.

No Sparks. You have to have had your licence pre 19/11. And we don't actually know if pre 19/11's can be substituted.

But the first thing is to continue the licence, otherwise the point is moot.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

I have my license 3 years now and have changed guns twice. The last time was to license the same gun as my father and i sold my own (about 18 months ago). If i already have a license and am deemed "fit" to be re-issued with a new 3 year license and according to the statement you (sparks) posted from the DOJ about a delay in personal import ban then what (legally or otherwise) is to stop me from buying a gun already imported or importing my own. Its the same pulse number on my license, same make, calibre, roughly same model, so how could i be refused permission to import/buy a new gun.

As I said earlier before Sparks got us all muddled up , just continue the licence for the moment. That's the most impportant part, we are now into the new licencing year and all the new stuff applies, so trying to substitute at this point would be the same as trying to get the licence and then substitute and you don't know for certain if you'll be refused.

So the cheapest (and safest) option is to just get the current licence renewed and go from there.

Sparks

Agreed - first priority is to keep the licence. We can disagree over imports later

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

As I said earlier before Sparks got us all muddled up , just continue the licence for the moment. That's the most impportant part, we are now into the new licencing year and all the new stuff applies, so trying to substitute at this point would be the same as trying to get the licence and then substitute and you don't know for certain if you'll be refused.

So the cheapest (and safest) option is to just get the current licence renewed and go from there.

TBH i was going to change 3-4 months ago to the one in the dealers but until i knew how the CJB was going to effect licencing i decided against it. What you're saying about holding off is spot on. I'm just a bit confused. Not to repeat all we've said already but how can they say personal imports are not banned (yet) but still refuse people the import licence.

The other point does anyone know what you do to change a gun on the new license. With the old one you got it stamped. The new card license will not allow for that so you must have to submit your card with transfer details back up to dublin and get re-ussued with a new updated card. What do you reckon?

Sparks

There's two forms ezri - my guess would be that you start by filling out FCP2, and if that's refused, you fill out FCP1.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

TBH i was going to change 3-4 months ago to the one in the dealers but until i knew how the CJB was going to effect licencing i decided against it. What you're saying about holding off is spot on. I'm just a bit confused. Not to repeat all we've said already but how can they say personal imports are not banned (yet) but still refuse people the import licence.

The DoJ get to issue the import licence and they get to decide whether or not to issue it. Do you want to take them to court?

The other point does anyone know what you do to change a gun on the new license. With the old one you got it stamped. The new card license will not allow for that so you must have to submit your card with transfer details back up to dublin and get re-ussued with a new updated card. What do you reckon?

It seems to be the same FCA1 form that is used for substitutions. I'm not sure if the old licence goes back with the form or you keep it until the new one is issued, but I'd prefer the latter myself as it makes life easier.

And that's what it's all about isn't it? Making life easier for the individual taxpayers. :rolleyes:

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

There's two forms ezri - my guess would be that you start by filling out FCP2, and if that's refused, you fill out FCP1.

Sparks, you're having a very senior moment. Look what you've called those forms

fat-tony

Sparks - Form FCA2 is used (IMHO) for changing the details on a Firearms Cert. where they are in error (e.g. Name spelled incorrectly, model name wrong, serial number with transposed digits:) - that sort of thing). Another use for Form FCA2 would be if you were cancelling a cert. if the firearm was deacted, lost, sold or stolen.

FCA2 is not for substitutions - FCA1 is used for that purpose.

Sparks

Weeellllll....
I think that you're right in that the guy who designed the forms thought that f-t, but you'd be hard pressed to tell a Super he wasn't allowed to use FCA2 for that purpose

(and yeah, that was a seriously senior moment...)