BER Activity

BERmad · 02-08-2009 1:15pm #1

Hello all,

I am a BER assesor in Co.Monaghan there seems to be that there is not that much demand here for BERs. The attidue here is why bother?

I was just wondering is this happening through out the country?

sydthebeat · 02-08-2009 1:32pm

BERmad wrote: »

Hello all,

I am a BER assesor in Co.Monaghan there seems to be that there is not that much demand here for BERs. The attidue here is why bother?

I was just wondering is this happening through out the country?

it bad everywhere....

even with the huge existing housing stock theres very little happening...

a few reasons:
1. the current recession and lack of credit to buy
2. the over valuation of existing housing stock restricts buying
3. the over supply of assessors into a dwindling market

legs_akimbo · 02-08-2009 5:39pm

BERmad wrote: »

Hello all,

I am a BER assesor in Co.Monaghan there seems to be that there is not that much demand here for BERs. The attidue here is why bother?

I was just wondering is this happening through out the country?

And Monaghan has one of the smallest quota of registered assessors with 37 in the country.

SilverBER · 04-08-2009 8:17am

sydthebeat wrote: »

it bad everywhere....

even with the huge existing housing stock theres very little happening...

a few reasons:
1. the current recession and lack of credit to buy
2. the over valuation of existing housing stock restricts buying
3. the over supply of assessors into a dwindling market

Spot on, Syd. There is also the fact that assessments are being offered for €90 in some regions and for €85 on websites for one off units.

muffler · 04-08-2009 1:33pm

SilverBER wrote: »

Spot on, Syd. There is also the fact that assessments are being offered for €90 in some regions and for €85 on websites for one off units.

As some of you know Im not into this area but how in the name of Jesus, Mary and their wee donkey could an assessment be done for those figures?

SilverBER · 04-08-2009 1:56pm

muffler wrote: »

As some of you know Im not into this area but how in the name of Jesus, Mary and their wee donkey could an assessment be done for those figures?

I am of the same opinion, Muffler. However, as has been pointed out here before there are people on BER cert.com that are quoting these figures. I've actually seen them.

BERmad · 04-08-2009 2:42pm

legs_akimbo wrote: »

And Monaghan has one of the smallest quota of registered assessors with 37 in the country.

Yes but it seems like every one no's an assessor as I have bid on differnt jos to be told that 'sorry but your man down the road does those them certs i better give it to him'.
Most of my business so far has been from people I no too, bar about 4 certs.

trad · 04-08-2009 2:46pm

muffler wrote: »

As some of you know Im not into this area but how in the name of Jesus, Mary and their wee donkey could an assessment be done for those figures?

Could be why SEI are looking for letters of engagement from us on audits - they want to see the price we are charging for BER's

SilverBER · 04-08-2009 6:44pm

I doubt if they are all that interested in what we charge. Its just more red tape. Funny how they lay all of these conditions down, take our registration fee and then tell us we cant use their logo on our letterheads and stuff. They are the only organisation I know that do that. Do they not trust us?

No6 · 05-08-2009 12:50pm

No but do we trust them either!!!:D

SilverBER · 05-08-2009 2:00pm

No6 wrote: »

No but do we trust them either!!!:D

Not on their performance to date. I have absolutely no confidence in them whatsoever.

mary b · 06-08-2009 7:53pm

So am I reading this right. There are assessors out there charging 80/90 euro per cert, including sei fee of 25 euro. leaving them with 55/65 euro for a cert. Does anybody out there actually know an assessor who is charging this and where about are they operating from. This has to be per unit of 30 or 40 apartments. When you would take travelling costs, PI insurance etc. they have to be operating at a loss. I suppose they dont have to register for VAT!

SilverBER · 06-08-2009 9:41pm

mary b wrote: »

So am I reading this right. There are assessors out there charging 80/90 euro per cert, including sei fee of 25 euro. leaving them with 55/65 euro for a cert. Does anybody out there actually know an assessor who is charging this and where about are they operating from. This has to be per unit of 30 or 40 apartments. When you would take travelling costs, PI insurance etc. they have to be operating at a loss. I suppose they dont have to register for VAT!

I posted this before. Those prices are for a one off dwelling. They must be doing blocks for the €25 fee plus a fiver!

chatterbox007 · 07-08-2009 10:08am

These prices are crazy but they won't last as it is impossible to survive on those rates - way less than the min wage. Also with all the sei red tape attached it won't be worth their while.

legs_akimbo · 07-08-2009 7:34pm

If you want to see for yourself how ridiculously low some of the prices are simply put your own, or an imaginary house up on the BER cert web site.
After all its free, they are making their money on the backs of assessors and ruining the business in the process. There is no obligations with them, you put up a house you get quotes you act on them if you so choose.
I put a house up of 2000 sq ft (bungalow) and got an all in quote of €100.:eek::eek::eek: and a few for €120.
Of course doing this you may consider is not a very polite course to take, but hey as far as I am concerned the likes of ***********are a cancer to this business.

*****************************

Anyone doing certs for those prices are imbecilles and can not possibly be giving a credible service.

There used to be a forum there but they had to abandon it because of all the squabbling and the vitriol being directed at the owners of ***********, as no one was actually getting any work from them no matter how little they quoted

SilverBER · 07-08-2009 9:15pm

Legs makes a valid point above. Prices are that low and lower for apartments, maybe they are taking the Wal Mart view of piling it high and selling it cheap. One thing that I heard was that the forum was taken down because of racist comments being made against non national BER assessors.

SilverBER · 08-08-2009 8:48am

Speaking of forums (fora?). I joined the non members forum at berassoc last week. There was a pretty irate thread which has now been deleted. It started with a guy asking a question about the uvalue of a cavity block and finished with everyone attacking another guy who had a go at the poster. I am concerned as it seems that tensions are running high and might spill over in a nasty fashion one of these days and BER assessment might not be the thing one admits to being part of.
Did anyone see this?

muffler · 08-08-2009 1:11pm

SilverBER wrote: »

Speaking of forums (fora?). I joined the non members forum at berassoc last week. There was a pretty irate thread which has now been deleted. It started with a guy asking a question about the uvalue of a cavity block and finished with everyone attacking another guy who had a go at the poster. I am concerned as it seems that tensions are running high and might spill over in a nasty fashion one of these days and BER assessment might not be the thing one admits to being part of.
Did anyone see this?

We have a much more civil clientèle here

Didn't see it myself though.

legs_akimbo · 09-08-2009 8:57am

SilverBER wrote: »

Speaking of forums (fora?). I joined the non members forum at berassoc last week. There was a pretty irate thread which has now been deleted. It started with a guy asking a question about the uvalue of a cavity block and finished with everyone attacking another guy who had a go at the poster. I am concerned as it seems that tensions are running high and might spill over in a nasty fashion one of these days and BER assessment might not be the thing one admits to being part of.
Did anyone see this?

I saw it, it is a common theme in that forum.
The consensus of opinion there is pay up and join the association and ask your questions then in the private forum....I once received a reposte of "he who pays the piper plays the tune" in other words pay to ask your questions.
As it is supposedly a non profit making organisation I asked why then there was a fee to join, I got no response.
I did not and will not join.

r-i-tect · 09-08-2009 11:11am

I was quite impressed that there's a BER association considering the infancy and mad explosion of BER assessors. I do question the not for profit status and I am slightly confused why it's not part of / or run by SEI. (Maybe it is?)

I wonder if Disability Access Certs will go down the same route?

SilverBER · 09-08-2009 11:27am

I dont know too much about it really. As in all things what exactly does not for profit mean - most enterprises exist to make a profit so I am sure somebody is in this case too. They arent the only ones either, (bercert.com, all the trainers, SEI etc) the only ones who don't seem to be making a profit are the assessors themselves.
Regarding the pay to join forum, I fail to see the benefit judging by some of the advice being given to enquiries on the board. The thing that concerned me was the vitriolic nature of some of the postings. I am quite happy that things are conducted with much more civility here. Lets hope it remains so.

muffler · 09-08-2009 11:40am

Wonder is there a vacancy for a trigger happy mod over there

legs_akimbo · 09-08-2009 2:00pm

The admin there stated.

Please also be aware that the Association is a non-profit making organisation and all committee members involved do so on a voluntary basis.

I asked why it therfore cost €62.50 to join and, as an organisation that is primarily set up for furthering the aims of its association members and working to protect their interests just what successes had been achieved by the association in relation to issues that effect us all.
As it would be better to be inside the tent p*****g out ........
but not if it is costing me sixty euro's, on a principle more than the outlay.
It is certainly something that needs to be given some attention an organisation, with a mouthpiece and a backbone to stand up to the SEI instead of letting them ride roughshod unchallenged.

mary b · 10-08-2009 9:07am

Legs, I totally agree. Wouldn't it be the ideal situation if all assessors would down tools until SEI formulated a reasonable pricing structure. Nothing scientific, just a base price for one off houses and a fee per square meter over a certain area. Simple. For multiple dwellings, knock a percentage off based on 5 units 10, units 15 units etc. I mean the cost of the cert is a set 25 euro, why not have a structure for the remainder of the fee.
I mean, this scheme is run by a government department, where are all the accountants when you need them. If decent fees could be got for issuing these certs, this would mean more tax, more vat for the government coffers. SEI really are asleep at the wheel. If this scheme was run by a private company there would be some sort of pricing structure in place from the start.
But hey, what are the chances of everyone sticking together anyway.

sydthebeat · 10-08-2009 10:04am

mary b wrote: »

Legs, I totally agree. Wouldn't it be the ideal situation if all assessors would down tools until SEI formulated a reasonable pricing structure. Nothing scientific, just a base price for one off houses and a fee per square meter over a certain area. Simple. For multiple dwellings, knock a percentage off based on 5 units 10, units 15 units etc. I mean the cost of the cert is a set 25 euro, why not have a structure for the remainder of the fee.
I mean, this scheme is run by a government department, where are all the accountants when you need them. If decent fees could be got for issuing these certs, this would mean more tax, more vat for the government coffers. SEI really are asleep at the wheel. If this scheme was run by a private company there would be some sort of pricing structure in place from the start.
But hey, what are the chances of everyone sticking together anyway.

price fixing is illegal under both irish (Competition Act 2002) AFAIK....

so what you are proposing cannot happen...

SEI have always said that they did not foresee the BER scheme as a stand-alone profession, but rather an add-on to other services.... i think this is how it will play out once the existing housing stock has been significantly 'assessed'..... stand alone assessors will fall by the way side because there will be no market for them...

No6 · 10-08-2009 10:21am

legs_akimbo wrote: »

The admin there stated.

Please also be aware that the Association is a non-profit making organisation and all committee members involved do so on a voluntary basis.

I asked why it therfore cost €62.50 to join and, as an organisation that is primarily set up for furthering the aims of its association members and working to protect their interests just what successes had been achieved by the association in relation to issues that effect us all.
As it would be better to be inside the tent p*****g out ........
but not if it is costing me sixty euro's, on a principle more than the outlay.
It is certainly something that needs to be given some attention an organisation, with a mouthpiece and a backbone to stand up to the SEI instead of letting them ride roughshod unchallenged.

In fairness to the BER association legs they are doing a huge ammount of work,they are in permanent discussions with SEI and as they represent over 500 assessors they are listened too, I paid my 60 or so euros with as much trepidation as you describe but can definately say it was the best 60 euro I have spent on the entire BER system. I have had a few issues and the association has raised them with SEI for me, they have been resolved or clarified not always to my likeing but at least they have been resolved. The people involved are doing all the work on their own time the 60 euros covers only the expenses such as the running a website and CPD events. I am not by they way involved at any level with any comittees of the BER Association I am just an ordinary member.

I didn't see the thread you refered to in the public area, I don't have time to look there too much to be honest but the site is moderated so if people were posting offensive or libelous postings they would be removed much the same as Boards really maybe not quite as quickly.

There is a technicial section in the members area which is also very useful.

trad · 10-08-2009 12:07pm

I agree with the notion that prices should be set and, I do believe, can be set by SEI, a Goventment body.

Here's an example. HGV Testing now run by the RSA. All tests are carried out by Independently owned test centers, yet prices are set by the Minister of Transport, so it's a question of repetation and availability not price.

sydthebeat · 10-08-2009 12:18pm

trad wrote: »

I agree with the notion that prices should be set and, I do believe, can be set by SEI, a Goventment body.

Here's an example. HGV Testing now run by the RSA. All tests are carried out by Independently owned test centers, yet prices are set by the Minister of Transport, so it's a question of repitation and availability not price.

correct me if i am worng, but are they (and NCTS) not under contract to the government to carry out these tests???

sinnerboy · 10-08-2009 1:40pm

trad wrote: »

I agree with the notion that prices should be set and, I do believe, can be set by SEI, a Goventment body.

Here's an example. HGV Testing now run by the RSA. All tests are carried out by Independently owned test centers, yet prices are set by the Minister of Transport, so it's a question of repetation and availability not price.

Ok - bring your house to me - and I will fix a price on that basis :pac::pac:

trad · 10-08-2009 4:06pm

Good point sinnerboy, hadn't thought of that, but then again my overheads are a tad lower than owning and running a HGV test centre

legs_akimbo · 10-08-2009 9:05pm

No6 wrote: »

In fairness to the BER association legs they are doing a huge ammount of work,they are in permanent discussions with SEI and as they represent over 500 assessors they are listened too, I paid my 60 or so euros with as much trepidation as you describe but can definately say it was the best 60 euro I have spent on the entire BER system. I have had a few issues and the association has raised them with SEI for me, they have been resolved or clarified not always to my likeing but at least they have been resolved. The people involved are doing all the work on their own time the 60 euros covers only the expenses such as the running a website and CPD events. I am not by they way involved at any level with any comittees of the BER Association I am just an ordinary member.

I didn't see the thread you refered to in the public area, I don't have time to look there too much to be honest but the site is moderated so if people were posting offensive or libelous postings they would be removed much the same as Boards really maybe not quite as quickly.

There is a technicial section in the members area which is also very useful.

I am pleased to hear that they are doing some good, I was just sceptical that this was another money making scam aimed at BER assessors so am happy to stand corrected, think I will then join the ranks...if they will have me !;)

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