Percentage of Laws.

K-9

limklad wrote: »

I see that over in P.ie that they seem to be coming up approx 80% of Irish Law is of EU origin.

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty/83224-what-percentage-laws-brussels-28.html

They Seem to have done 2003, 2004 and 2008
Limerickjohn Results are
2003: 81.55% of laws were of EU origin
2004: 77.09% of laws were of EU origin
2005 Limerickjohn is processing results, he has Irish Acts and S.I.'s done and now looking at EU Regulations.

Thoreau results are
2008: 77.96% of laws were of EU origin

So the EU actually passed less legislation in 08 than 03, a whole 3.59% less!

That means the EU is passing less legislation than 6 years ago. Great.

limklad

K-9 wrote: »

So the EU actually passed less legislation in 08 than 03, a whole 3.59% less!

That means the EU is passing less legislation than 6 years ago. Great.

It still a lot lot higher than Generation yes results who claim the be the holders of the truth.

marco_polo

limklad wrote: »

It still a lot lot higher than Generation yes results who claim the be the holders of the truth.

Which is exactly what one would expect under a ludicrous system where

Council Regulation (EC) No 55/2004 of 17 December 2003 amending Regulation (EC) No 1453/2001 introducing specific measures for certain agricultural products for the Azores and Madeira and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 1600/92 (Poseima) with respect to the application of the supplementary levy in the milk and milk products sector in the Azores

=

FINANCE ACT 2008

Scofflaw

marco_polo wrote: »

Which is exactly what one would expect under a ludicrous system where

Council Regulation (EC) No 55/2004 of 17 December 2003 amending Regulation (EC) No 1453/2001 introducing specific measures for certain agricultural products for the Azores and Madeira and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 1600/92 (Poseima) with respect to the application of the supplementary levy in the milk and milk products sector in the Azores

=

FINANCE ACT 2008

That's exactly the case. As usual, the idea is to reduce the whole debate to a nice simple slogan, whereas, if you were going to do the thing properly, you'd need some kind of scoring system for "what impact does regulation X have on my life?". Follow that with "who made regulation X?" - did Ireland disagree with it at Council? Would we have had it anyway, like the lightbulb energy efficiency regulations, or the data retention directive?

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

limklad wrote: »

It still a lot lot higher than Generation yes results who claim the be the holders of the truth.

Ah, but I'm sure you see my point, lies, damn lies..............

I'm sure you are also aware of how our Govt. fudges issues and happily lets the EU legislate on issues.

Seeing as this 79% or whatever is so important, care to point out bad laws, laws we wouldn't agree too?

limklad

K-9 wrote: »

Ah, but I'm sure you see my point, lies, damn lies..............

I'm sure you are also aware of how our Govt. fudges issues and happily lets the EU legislate on issues.

Seeing as this 79% or whatever is so important, care to point out bad laws, laws we wouldn't agree too?

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies, just like Libertas on issues like abortion and Neutrality.
I have gone through 2008 figures by Thoureu and found that generation yes analysis was incorrect. They left out EU Regulations in their count.

All EU Law that we are opt-in through Treaties is Irish Law. EU Regulations is applied as soon as they are in force by the EU. EU Directives and EU Decisions are to be applied by Member States to incorporate into their Laws.

Is does not matter what is good laws or bad laws from the EU, All Governments have both Good and Bad Laws.
The point is from this Thread is Percentage of Laws from Brussels in Irish Law.

Scofflaw

limklad wrote: »

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies, just like Libertas on issues like abortion and Neutrality.
I have gone through 2008 figures by Thoureu and found that generation analysis was incorrect. They left out EU Regulations in their count.

All EU Law that we are opt-in through Treaties is Irish Law. EU Regulations is applied as soon as they are in force by the EU. EU Directives and EU Decisions are to be applied by Member States to incorporate into their Laws.

Is does not matter what is good laws or bad laws from the EU, All Governments have both Good and Bad Laws.
The point is from this Thread is Percentage of Laws from Brussels in Irish Law.

Generation Yes have a set of figures, and politics.ie have a set of figures. To state that Generation Yes are "lying" only tells me that you believe the politics.ie figures, whereas I think they're utter rubbish, from what I've read. Would you care to prove that Generation Yes are lying?

More generally, of course it's important whether we're talking about a regulation on Azorean eggs or our Finance Act - the former is unlikely ever to bankrupt the Irish economy and leave us in debt for a generation. That you are prepared to compare them 1 to 1 shows exactly what you want to 'prove', and it's nothing to do with anything meaningful.

cordially,
Scofflaw

marco_polo

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's exactly the case. As usual, the idea is to reduce the whole debate to a nice simple slogan, whereas, if you were going to do the thing properly, you'd need some kind of scoring system for "what impact does regulation X have on my life?". Follow that with "who made regulation X?" - did Ireland disagree with it at Council? Would we have had it anyway, like the lightbulb energy efficiency regulations, or the data retention directive?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Unfortunately nice and snappy always wins. Even a basic rebuke of the argument involves resorting to the use of the sort of legal definations that tend to make peoples eyes glaze over (Myself included)

Scofflaw

marco_polo wrote: »

Unfortunately nice and snappy always wins. Even a basic rebuke of the argument involves resorting to the use of the sort of legal definations that tend to make peoples eyes glaze over (Myself included)

In fact, your counterpoint is probably the most important - and indeed snappy - deflation of the whole argument. It should be obvious even to the dimmest lightbulb that the Finance Act is just that little bit more relevant to Irish lives than supplementary levies on Azorean milk products .

The fact that that's so obviously the case shows up the underlying dishonesty of the supposed 'comparison'.

cordially,
Scofflaw

marco_polo

limklad wrote: »

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies, just like Libertas on issues like abortion and Neutrality.
I have gone through 2008 figures by Thoureu and found that generation yes analysis was incorrect. They left out EU Regulations in their count.

All EU Law that we are opt-in through Treaties is Irish Law. EU Regulations is applied as soon as they are in force by the EU. EU Directives and EU Decisions are to be applied by Member States to incorporate into their Laws.

Is does not matter what is good laws or bad laws from the EU, All Governments have both Good and Bad Laws.
The point is from this Thread is Percentage of Laws from Brussels in Irish Law.

And here we have anti-EU campaigners in Iceland, litterly falling over themselves to stress that regulation are not laws

http://eunews.blogspot.com/

Since the end of last year it has been repeatedly claimed in foreign media that Iceland has adopted at least two-thirds of all the legislation of the European Union through the country's membership of the European Economic Area (EEA). Among those who have said this is Olli Rehn, the EU's commissioner for enlargement, for example to the AFP news agency at the beginning of February.

Until a few years ago, certain Icelanders in favour of joining the European Union on a regular basis claimed the same, that Iceland was adopting 70 and even up to 90 percent of EU laws through the EEA agreement. This claim was repeatedly put forward without being founded on any studies at all.

In the spring of 2005 research carried out by the EFTA [European Free Trade Association] secretariat in Brussels at the request of the Icelandic foreign ministry, however, revealed that only 6.5 percent of all EU legislation was subjected to the EEA agreement between 1994 (when it came into force) and 2004.

In March 2007 a report published by a special committee on Europe commissioned by the Icelandic prime minister, showed that some 2,500 pieces of EU legislation had been adopted in Iceland during the first decade of the EEA agreement. The study also found that about 22 percent of Icelandic laws passed by the parliament originated from the EU during the same period of time.

The totality of EU legislation is according to various sources around 25,000 to 30,000 legal acts. Total Icelandic laws and regulations, however, are around 5,000. Of those there are less than 1,000 laws, the rest is regulations. Even if the entire legislation of Iceland came from the EU it would only be around 20 percent of the total acquis communautaire.

So how is it possible to reach the conclusion that Iceland has already adopted "at least two-thirds of European legislation"?

Intrestingly appying the same simplistic methodology gives a figure of at least 50 % of Icelandic laws originating in the EU. 0% of which they had any say over.

K-9

limklad wrote: »

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies, just like Libertas on issues like abortion and Neutrality.
I have gone through 2008 figures by Thoureu and found that generation yes analysis was incorrect. They left out EU Regulations in their count.

All EU Law that we are opt-in through Treaties is Irish Law. EU Regulations is applied as soon as they are in force by the EU. EU Directives and EU Decisions are to be applied by Member States to incorporate into their Laws.

Is does not matter what is good laws or bad laws from the EU, All Governments have both Good and Bad Laws.
The point is from this Thread is Percentage of Laws from Brussels in Irish Law.

I don't care what Generation YES say.

Generation Yes is irrelevant. The point of this thread is now, 79% as you point out.

79% means nothing on its own. Explain how the EU legislating for 79% is a bad thing.

We know without the EU, 100% of our laws would be Dail legislated. That is the basis of your position, isn't it?

limklad

Scofflaw wrote: »

Generation Yes have a set of figures, and politics.ie have a set of figures. To state that Generation Yes are "lying" only tells me that you believe the politics.ie figures, whereas I think they're utter rubbish, from what I've read. Would you care to prove that Generation Yes are lying?

More generally, of course it's important whether we're talking about a regulation on Azorean eggs or our Finance Act - the former is unlikely ever to bankrupt the Irish economy and leave us in debt for a generation. That you are prepared to compare them 1 to 1 shows exactly what you want to 'prove', and it's nothing to do with anything meaningful.

cordially,
Scofflaw

You be surprise what may increase our taxes intake, who ever though that we lose Dell (less taxes income) this early, therefore Azorean may have more of an impact on us.:eek:

I did noticed that several EU directives were in our S.I.'s which was counted as 1 Law. They were not light Directives especially with amendments of amendments. They went over my head.
The Finance Act was a lot more readable :eek:

There was may trivial Irish S.I.'s that I went through out of curiosity such as open and closing of District Court Districts of Waterville and Caherciveen)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0809.html

Mussels seed regulations 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0311.html

and fishing in the river shannon in tidal waters
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0207.html

and Tax Consolidation Act for Ballygar County Galway.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/statutory.html

declaration of Natural Heritage Area of Bracklagh Bog whereever that is.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0557.html

each was counted as 1 Irish Law.

Going through 2008 was tough, I do not know how Limerickjohn gone through 3 years of Irish Law.
it would be difficult to quantify their weighing on us as we all work in different fields of work (or not at all if on the dole) or involved with different activities.

I thought all laws are equal.

limklad

K-9 wrote: »

I don't care what Generation YES say.

Generation Yes is irrelevant. The point of this thread is now, 79% as you point out.

79% means nothing on its own. Explain how the EU legislating for 79% is a bad thing.

We know without the EU, 100% of our laws would be Dail legislated. That is the basis of your position, isn't it?

They lied like Fine Gael to the voters.. That the bad thing.. Deceiving people with lies in order to sway their votes is Bad no matter what opinion (yea or nay) you take. People have a right to know the truth to make up their minds. That why Fianna Fail in the Dumps right now. They lied about economy in the last General election by claiming the Principles of the economy is sound.

Downplaying the Impact of the EU on us is Wrong and I am Pro EU by the way.

Scofflaw

limklad wrote: »

You be surprise what may increase our taxes intake, who ever though that we lose Dell (less taxes income) this early, therefore Azorean may have more of an impact on us.:eek:

I did noticed that several EU directives were in our S.I.'s which was counted as 1 Law. They were not light Directives especially with amendments of amendments. They went over my head.
The Finance Act was a lot more readable :eek:

There was may trivial Irish S.I.'s that I went through out of curiosity such as open and closing of District Court Districts of Waterville and Caherciveen)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0809.html

Mussels seed regulations 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0311.html

and fishing in the river shannon in tidal waters
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0207.html

and Tax Consolidation Act for Ballygar County Galway.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/statutory.html

declaration of Natural Heritage Area of Bracklagh Bog whereever that is.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0557.html

each was counted as 1 Irish Law.

Going through 2008 was tough, I do not know how Limerickjohn gone through 3 years of Irish Law.
it would be difficult to quantify their weighing on us as we all work in different fields of work (or not at all if on the dole) or involved with different activities.

I thought all laws are equal.

Really? So the NAMA Act will be identical in the extent of its effect on our lives to the supplemental dairy products regulation for the Azores?

Do you genuinely think so?

amused,
Scofflaw

limklad

Scofflaw wrote: »

Really? So the NAMA Act will be identical in the extent of its effect on our lives to the supplemental dairy products regulation for the Azores?

Do you genuinely think so?

amused,
Scofflaw

NAMA has no effect on me as it has not done anything yet.
The government have yet to put in the powers for NAMA to do its Job. We still do not know yet if NAMA is going ahead as there is still alot of doubt.

Costs of Dairy Products has more an effect on me right now when I go to the shops. So Dairy Regulations has an effect on nearly everyone who buys cheese, milk etc. Implementating Regulations cost money to Dairy Farmers and Manufacturers who passed the costs onto the consumers. So Yes.
I very amused at you comments as you should have known better to pick dairy Regulations.
Good night I have work in the morning.

Scofflaw

limklad wrote: »

NAMA has no effect on me as it has not done anything yet.
The government have yet to put in the powers for NAMA to do its Job. We still do not know yet if NAMA is going ahead as there is still alot of doubt.

Costs of Dairy Products has more an effect on me right now when I go to the shops. So Dairy Regulations has an effect on nearly everyone who buys cheese, milk etc. Implementating Regulations cost money to Dairy Farmers and Manufacturers who passed the costs onto the consumers. So Yes.
I very amused at you comments as you should have known better to pick dairy Regulations.
Good night I have work in the morning.

Lots of wriggling there. Let's try it again. Your claim is that the NAMA Act will be identical in the extent of its effect on our lives to this regulation:

Council Regulation (EC) No 55/2004 of 17 December 2003 amending Regulation (EC) No 1453/2001 introducing specific measures for certain agricultural products for the Azores and Madeira and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 1600/92 (Poseima) with respect to the application of the supplementary levy in the milk and milk products sector in the Azores

Note the "introducing specific measures for certain agricultural products for the Azores and Madeira".

You're telling me you genuinely think we should count NAMA as having exactly the same impact on Irish lives as that regulation? True or false?

still handing you rope,
Scofflaw

K-9

limklad wrote: »

They lied like Fine Gael to the voters.. That the bad thing.. Deceiving people with lies in order to sway their votes is Bad no matter what opinion (yea or nay) you take. People have a right to know the truth to make up their minds. That why Fianna Fail in the Dumps right now. They lied about economy in the last General election by claiming the Principles of the economy is sound.

Downplaying the Impact of the EU on us is Wrong and I am Pro EU by the way.

Grand, but 100% Irish law and 0% EU law is good?

That is the basic premise? Why bother otherwise?

Or is 10/20/30/40% ok, regardless of effect?

marco_polo

limklad wrote: »

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies.

In what way exactly?

Of the 588 Acts, 114 contain at least one reference to European legislation (19.39%). Of the 10,725 Statutory Instruments, 3,050 contain at least one reference to European legislation (28.44%). Of the total of Irish legislation from 1992 to 2009, then, only 3,164 out of 11,313 Acts and Instruments contain any reference whatsoever to European legislation - 27.97%.

One final point is that the claim may refer to EU regulation which is
directly applicable without requiring an Act/SI. Even if we include
these regulations (3,009), the amount of legislation in any way
“European” only reaches 43%.

Why the Generation yes number is lower here is that the are counting the actual number of applicable regulations in existance. Hence is 43% clearly closer to the fact. And even still is a pretty meaningless number itself.

The best trick the devil ever pulled was completely ignoring the fact that a vast number of the legislative acts that they are counting per year are ammendments to existing ones, so are not in fact adding to the body of EU law at all. This give them the luxury of counting the same thing as many times as it is ammended. They freely admit themslves that they have no idea how many are ammending vs new regulations. Sure they will claim that they are still legislative acts, but all that proves is the EU goes through alot more paper than we do per year.

I am fully confident that you will not care much for the distinction though, since you find the 80% figure so much more appealing to your tastes.


EDIT Nice example here that gives him a count of 11 in 2003 (Expanded the details of this year) and 18 in 2004 for the same thing: I have checked the p.ie thread and sure enough these 11 appear.

Commission Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 of 17 December 1996 on the entry of certain names in the 'Register of protected designation of origin and protected geographical indications' provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs (Text with EEA relevance)

Amended by:
Amended by 31997R1875 Completion Annex from 27/09/1997
Amended by 31997R2396 Completion Annex from 03/12/1997
Amended by 31998R0195 Completion Annex from 27/01/1998
Amended by 31998R1265 Completion Annex from 19/06/1998
Amended by 31998R1576 Completion Annex from 23/07/1998
Amended by 31998R2088 Completion Annex from 01/10/1998
Amended by 31998R2139 Completion Annex from 07/10/1998
Amended by 31998R2784 Completion Annex from 23/12/1998
Amended by 31999R0038 Completion Annex from 09/01/1999
Amended by 31999R0378 Completion Annex from 20/02/1999
Amended by 31999R0872 Completion Annex from 28/04/1999
Amended by 31999R1645 Completion Annex from 28/07/1999
Amended by 31999R2107 Completion Annex from 05/10/1999
Amended by 32000R0547 Completion Annex from 15/03/2000
Amended by 32000R1187 Completion Annex from 06/06/2000
Amended by 32000R1338 Completion Annex from 27/06/2000
Amended by 32000R1576 Completion Annex from 20/07/2000
Amended by 32000R1651 Completion Annex from 27/07/2000
Amended by 32000R1903 Completion Annex from 08/09/2000
Amended by 32000R1904 Completion Annex from 08/09/2000
Amended by 32000R2446 Completion Annex from 07/11/2000
Amended by 32001R0138 Completion Annex from 25/01/2001
Amended by 32001R0464 Completion Annex from 08/03/2001
Amended by 32001R0509 Completion Annex from 16/03/2001
Amended by 32001R0898 Completion Annex from 15/05/2001
Amended by 32001R1356 Completion Annex from 05/07/2001
Amended by 32001R1971 Completion Annex from 10/10/2001
Amended by 32001R2036 Completion Annex from 18/10/2001
Amended by 32001R2372 Completion Annex from 25/12/2001
Amended by 32001R2601 Completion Annex from 18/01/2002
Amended by 32002R0245 Completion Annex from 01/03/2002
Amended by 32002R0538 Completion Annex from 15/04/2002
Amended by 32002R0564 Amendment Annex from 23/04/2002
Amended by 32002R0905 Completion Annex from 20/06/2002
Amended by 32002R1018 Completion Annex from 04/07/2002
Amended by 32002R1097 Completion Annex from 15/07/2002
Amended by 32002R1241 Completion Annex from 31/07/2002
Amended by 32002R1495 Completion Annex from 11/09/2002
Amended by 32002R2066 Completion Annex from 12/12/2002

Amended by 32003R0492 Completion Annex from 08/04/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 492/2003 of 18 March 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the "Register of protected designations of origin and protected geographical indications" provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs (Soprèssa Vicentina, Asparago verde di Altedo, Pêra Rocha do Oeste)

Amended by 32003R0617 Completion Annex from 25/04/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 617/2003 of 4 April 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the Register of protected designations of origin and protected geographical indications provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs (Carne dos Açores, Borrego do Nordeste Alentejano, Carne de Porco Alentejano, Pomodoro di Pachino, Uva da tavola di Mazzarrone)

Amended by 32003R0865 Completion Annex from 09/06/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 865/2003 of 19 May 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 (Cítricos Valencianos or Cítrics Valencians)

Amended by 32003R1257 Completion Annex from 05/08/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1257/2003 of 15 July 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the "Register of protected designation of origin and protected geographical indications" provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs (Molise, Alto Crotonese, Welsh Lamb, Nürnberger Bratwürste or Nürnberger Rostbratwürste)

Amended by 32003R1291 Completion Annex 1 from 08/08/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1291/2003 of 18 July 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the "Register of protected designation of origin and protected geographical indications" provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs (Pane di Altamura)

Amended by 32003R1298 Completion Annex from 12/08/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1298/2003 of 22 July 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the Register of protected designation of origin and protected geographical indications provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs "Φοινίκι Λακωνίας" (Finiki Lakonias)

Amended by 32003R1428 Completion Annex from 01/09/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1428/2003 of 11 August 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the Register of protected designations of origin and protected geographical indications provided for in Council Regulation (EEC) No 2081/92 on the protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs

Amended by 32003R1491 Completion Annex from 15/09/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1491/2003 of 25 August 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 (Ficodindia dell'Etna, Monte Etna, Colline di Romagna, Pretuziano delle Colline Teramane, Torta del Casar, Manzana de Girona or Poma de Girona)

Amended by 32003R1665 Completion Annex from 13/10/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1665/2003 of 22 September 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 (Clementine del Golfo di Taranto, Mela Val di Non and Clementinas de las Tierras del Ebro or Clementines de les Terres de l'Ebre)

Amended by 32003R1979 Completion Annex from 02/12/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 1979/2003 of 11 November 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 (Westlandse druif, Alcachofa de Benicarló or Carxofa de Benicarló and Marrone di San Zeno)

Amended by 32003R2054 Completion Annex from 12/12/2003 - Commission Regulation (EC) No 2054/2003 of 21 November 2003 supplementing the Annex to Regulation (EC) No 2400/96 on the entry of certain names in the Register of protected designations of origin and protected geographical indications (Mantequilla de l'Alt Urgell y la Cerdanya or Mantega de l'Alt Urgell i la Cerdanya)

Amended by 32003R2206 Completion Annex from 07/01/2004
Amended by 32003R2275 Completion Annex from 12/01/2004
Amended by 32004R0135 Completion Annex from 17/02/2004
Amended by 32004R0297 Amendment Annex from 11/03/2004
Amended by 32004R0387 Completion Annex from 23/03/2004
Amended by 32004R0465 Completion Annex from 02/04/2004
Amended by 32004R0637 Completion Annex from 27/04/2004
Amended by 32004R0738 Completion Annex from 12/05/2004
Amended by 32004R1165 Completion Annex from 16/07/2004
Amended by 32004R1258 Completion Annex from 30/07/2004
Amended by 32004R1437 Completion Annex from 01/09/2004
Amended by 32004R1483 Completion Annex from 10/09/2004
Amended by 32004R1485 Completion Annex from 10/09/2004
Amended by 32004R1486 Completion Annex from 10/09/2004
Amended by 32004R1845 Completion Annex from 12/11/2004
Amended by 32004R1856 Completion Annex from 16/11/2004
Amended by 32004R1897 Completion Annex from 19/11/2004
Amended by 32004R1898 Completion Annex from 19/11/2004
Amended by 32005R0205 Completion Annex from 25/02/2005
Amended by 32005R0736 Completion Annex from 03/06/2005
Amended by 32005R0737 Completion Annex from 03/06/2005
Amended by 32005R0886 Completion Annex from 01/07/2005
Amended by 32005R1357 Completion Annex from 08/09/2005
Amended by 32005R1623 Completion Annex from 25/10/2005
Amended by 32005R1854 Completion Annex from 07/12/2005
Amended by 32005R1855 Completion Annex from 05/12/2005
Amended by 32005R2154 Completion Annex from 13/01/2005
Amended by 32006R0417 Completion Annex from 31/03/2006

Now I personally would count this as one piece of relatively trivial legislation and i presume GenYes likewise (Though I am not sure of their exact methodology), whereas presumably you would count it as 75 pieces of signifigant Irish law with an equal standing to the 2008 Finance Act?

Can we call this Myth busted?

meglome

limklad wrote: »

Yes Generation Yes are telling lies, just like Libertas on issues like abortion and Neutrality.
I have gone through 2008 figures by Thoureu and found that generation yes analysis was incorrect. They left out EU Regulations in their count.

All EU Law that we are opt-in through Treaties is Irish Law. EU Regulations is applied as soon as they are in force by the EU. EU Directives and EU Decisions are to be applied by Member States to incorporate into their Laws.

Is does not matter what is good laws or bad laws from the EU, All Governments have both Good and Bad Laws.
The point is from this Thread is Percentage of Laws from Brussels in Irish Law.

One thing that would seem clear is the actual number is hard to pin down and certainly is impossible unless you are very specific about exactly what is to be counted. So the numbers being listed are meaningless. But since the No campaign are counting everything, things that really cannot be considered laws in their own right we have to take their figures as being very inflated. The Generation Yes numbers would be closer to some kind of reality, although we can't even be sure about that.

Victor

limklad wrote: »

I thought all laws are equal.

No. The Taxes Consilidation Act 1997 is an amalgamation of all finance acts up to that time (about 75 of them).

limklad wrote:

There was may trivial Irish S.I.'s that I went through out of curiosity such as ...

There are also "trivial" EU SIs, e.g. detailing when and where you can fish for certain species.

limklad

marco_polo wrote: »

In what way exactly?



Why the Generation yes number is lower here is that the are counting the actual number of applicable regulations in existance. Hence is 43% clearly closer to the fact. And even still is a pretty meaningless number itself.

The best trick the devil ever pulled was completely ignoring the fact that a vast number of the legislative acts that they are counting per year are ammendments to existing ones, so are not in fact adding to the body of EU law at all. This give them the luxury of counting the same thing as many times as it is ammended. They freely admit themslves that they have no idea how many are ammending vs new regulations. Sure they will claim that they are still legislative acts, but all that proves is the EU goes through alot more paper than we do per year.

I am fully confident that you will not care much for the distinction though, since you find the 80% figure so much more appealing to your tastes.


EDIT Nice example here that gives him a count of 11 in 2003 (Expanded the details of this year) and 18 in 2004 for the same thing: I have checked the p.ie thread and sure enough these 11 appear.



Now I personally would count this as one piece of relatively trivial legislation and i presume GenYes likewise (Though I am not sure of their exact methodology), whereas presumably you would count it as 75 pieces of signifigant Irish law with an equal standing to the 2008 Finance Act?

Can we call this Myth busted?

That EU Regulation is counted as 1. There is many Trivual Laws in every countries Laws.
Myth Busted? No. You got to do better than that.

marco_polo

limklad wrote: »

That EU Regulation is counted as 1. There is many Trivual Laws in every countries Laws.
Myth Busted? No. You got to do better than that.

Are ypu serious? You understand that he counted the 10 amendments to the same base directive in 2003 on that thread as 10 seperate leglislative acts? If you cannot grasp this and the implications for the 'analysis' then there is not much more I can do for you.

I even highlighted the 10 of them for you. Feel free to go back to the 'other' thread to crosscheck yourself.