grenades

xxboylarzxx

Blay wrote: »

Well if they're banned what do you think the likely answer to that question is?

the gardi went into mia and asked them not to sell them!

can someone who knows about the zoxnas please reply i really wait one.and i dont want to buy one and hear that customs seized it i dont want to waste 100 euro!

NakedDex

Yes but with pyro grenades you have the choice of actually having frag rather than just distraction grenades. With these, the outlay per shot is expensive given they provide feck all beyond a noise. Plus, if you're in any way heavy on grenades (and those that have seen me with pyro will tell you I'm right up there), you'll probably have two or three of these. Deploying them ten times is now £40.

Firekitten

IF the guard told him not to sell it... its illegal. Therefore, customs will seize it... Its not rocket science to work out, try it sometime... logic is fun. :rolleyes:

NakedDex

Exactly. There's clearly a problem somewhere. Why risk it? It's not like the authorities got involved for the hell of it.
James Boom grenades and Tornadoes are still freely available, why not try those instead?

Leftyflip

xxboylarzxx wrote: »

the gardi went into mia and asked them not to sell them!

can someone who knows about the zoxnas please reply i really wait one.and i dont want to buy one and hear that customs seized it i dont want to waste 100 euro!

Buy one, see what happens, tell us of the result. If you choose to try and import one you could be facing a fine if they are banned. Common sense...

Firekitten

Thunder B ones are excelent fun... and a DAMN sight more boomy than tornados...

a decent 'bang' over a weak fizz of a tornado...

Lemming

NakedDex wrote: »

Yes but with pyro grenades you have the choice of actually having frag rather than just distraction grenades. With these, the outlay per shot is expensive given they provide feck all beyond a noise.

Dex, frag grenades do feck all beyond providing a noise in all practicality too. Every site and/or event I've been to in the UK & NI basically just does the 'within x metre = hit' rule regardless of whether it's a flashbang or a frag that's gone off.

So it's a bit of a moot point that you've got frag vs. distraction pyro.

Plus, if you're in any way heavy on grenades (and those that have seen me with pyro will tell you I'm right up there), you'll probably have two or three of these. Deploying them ten times is now £40.

Again, moot since if you're in any way heavy on pyro you'll face the same net result.

NakedDex

Lemming wrote: »

Dex, frag grenades do feck all beyond providing a noise in all practicality too. Every site and/or event I've been to in the UK & NI basically just does the 'within x metre = hit' rule regardless of whether it's a flashbang or a frag that's gone off.

So it's a bit of a moot point that you've got frag vs. distraction pyro.



Again, moot since if you're in any way heavy on pyro you'll face the same net result.

I was under the impression (though having not used frag pyro specifically, I'm going on reports and such from others) that frag pyro was generally regarded as the preferred choice specifically because of the frag aspect versus the "dead withing x yards" concept.

As for facing the same net result, I do agree there. I've had some lovely pyro bills after a days gaming which left me with rather a lighter wallet than I had planned, but somehow felt less cheated than when I had to use gas based grenades. I am somehow more willing to spend it on pyro than on refills for gas systems. This may be because I hate wondering where my precious, expensive grenade has landed (and where it's various expelled components are now hiding) or because I know the pyro version will be considerably more reliable than my gas ones.

Regardless, we're going rather off the topic here. I still haven't used a gas grenade I truly trust. I know with maintenance some people swear by them, but I'm a long way off relying on them to clear a room.

Lemming

NakedDex wrote: »

I was under the impression (though having not used frag pyro specifically, I'm going on reports and such from others) that frag pyro was generally regarded as the preferred choice specifically because of the frag aspect versus the "dead withing x yards" concept.

Never once notably felt myself getting 'fragged' by frag pyro; every time I have -to my perception at least - been taken out by a frag pyro, ti's always been because I've been in the blast radius.

Claymores and landmine variants I'm sure do very much work on a "well if you're hit ... " routine, although that's assumption on my part. My experience at every UK site & event (both mainland & NI) I've attended has had the 'within x metre' radius rule for pryo with a comment that it applies to both frag and distraction types.

Frag pyro tends to be fairly palm-of-hand shaped and better for throwing than distraction pyro, particulary outdoors which may point towards its being favoured. Also tends to be physically smaller (albeit not by much) than distraction pyro.

I am somehow more willing to spend it on pyro than on refills for gas systems. This may be because I hate wondering where my precious, expensive grenade has landed (and where it's various expelled components are now hiding) or because I know the pyro version will be considerably more reliable than my gas ones.

Well, that does become a factor with any sort of reusable pyro; especially BFGs given their considerable initial cost. You'll see many BFGs festooned in brightly coloured tape and you may giggle and laugh at it until you see the practical benefits in being able to spot the buggers on the ground.

Reusable pyro tends also to be used indoors rather than outdoors again for obvious reasons. Thinking back to any UK site or event I've been to where a BFG (easy example given their prevalence in the UK) has been used, it's almost always been either indoors, or inside enclosed mock-up building areas where they can be easily found/retrieved.

NakedDex

Agreed, I have two lines of yellow tape on mine, with the spoon tethered to the body using 30lb fishing line. Even with those additions, I feel unsure about tossing them in anything but an area I'm certain I'll be able to easily relocate it.

Reusable pyro isn't something I've ever even seen, let alone used, so I'm ignorant to it's usability in any situation. I've heard of them but the concept seemed an odd mish-mash of ideas. What is the benefit of them over regular pyro?

Lemming

NakedDex wrote: »

Reusable pyro isn't something I've ever even seen, let alone used, so I'm ignorant to it's usability in any situation. I've heard of them but the concept seemed an odd mish-mash of ideas. What is the benefit of them over regular pyro?

Benefits of reusable pyro?

From a purely economic perspective (and I'll use BFGs here since I don't know the cost of CO2 devices off the top of my head); economy of scale/cost.

A BFG device will set you back something around the €60-80 mark. Each blankfire - typically 9mm although larger calibre does exist but tensd to be frowned upon by sites/event organisers - will then cost you pennies. Literally. You'll buy boxes of 50/100/whatever for €10-20. Over the course of a couple of events or day-skirmishes, you'll see the balance of buying a load of pyro balanced out. Over a prolongued period of use it gets cheaper and cheaper to use BFGs.

From another perspective; you're guaranteed to have pyro to hand. Events or sites sometimes can't get their hands on either any pyro or enough pyro to satisfy demand. Once you can get blankfire rounds, you're sorted and you know it.

Equally with gas-powered reusable grenades/devices - it eventally starts to balance out and then get cheaper over time.

NakedDex

With gas systems I don't see a point when reliability is in question, regardless of how cheap they are in the long run. As I said, I have three of the Escort ones which I find to be one of the best of a bad bunch, but I still wouldn't rely on them in any way. Most of the time they stay in storage.

I didn't realise by BFG you meant blank firing grenade. I thought you were referring to a pyro brand I hadn't heard of. The BFG's, in that case, I do see a point to for the reason you described. What I was referring to was the pyro grenades (I think they're TLSFX ones) that have a reusable firing element, spoon and pin, but the pyro charge itself is a twist-on, expendable cartridge.

Lemming

NakedDex wrote: »

With gas systems I don't see a point when reliability is in question, regardless of how cheap they are in the long run. As I said, I have three of the Escort ones which I find to be one of the best of a bad bunch, but I still wouldn't rely on them in any way. Most of the time they stay in storage.

I didn't realise by BFG you meant blank firing grenade. I thought you were referring to a pyro brand I hadn't heard of. The BFG's, in that case, I do see a point to for the reason you described. What I was referring to was the pyro grenades (I think they're TLSFX ones) that have a reusable firing element, spoon and pin, but the pyro charge itself is a twist-on, expendable cartridge.

Ah, sorry about the confusion Dex. Yes I was referring to blank fire grenades. TLSFX third generation pyro (aka. gen 3) aren't reusable to the best of my knowledge judging by what i saw at PR3. They are a lot of fun to use - the giggles to be had from pulling the pin, letting the spoon fly and then lobbing boom-death through a window at a run is not to be dismissed - but I hadn't seen any twist on cartridges although I'm open to correction on that.

As for reliability of gas vs. pyro; I've tossed quite a few dud pyros in my time, so I guess it's a case of half dozen vs. six of the other. Bad weather (i.e. 'sunny' Sennybridge) tends to also really put the bums rush on pyro outdoors.

NakedDex

It may be the Enola Gaye ones then. I have definitely heard about them but saw little point of such a hybrid system.

I've had a few dud pyro before too, but far more duds in gas grenades. Between misfires, unreliable timers and leaked gas, I just find them far too much hassle in comparison to pyro. If 1 in 10 pyro was a dud, I'd still be happier with those odds than with the gas systems.

thermo

the problem with getting BFG's (9mm, 12g ect) is you will need a permit to have them,,,,,, lots of hassle!

hitman_

xxboylarzxx wrote: »

the gardi went into mia and asked them not to sell them!

can someone who knows about the zoxnas please reply i really wait one.and i dont want to buy one and hear that customs seized it i dont want to waste 100 euro!

AFAIK, the Zoxna works on the same principles as the Tornado (open to correction), Both take around 200 bb's, both use green/red gas, Both eject and spread the bb's a few seconds after the pin is pulled. If the Tornado is legal then so is the Zoxna imo. Both work great with regular cleaning & maintenance. Maybe someone with knowledge of any legal problems could comment. I am assuming these are classed as toy grenades for customs purposes under Taric 9503 00 81 90 ??

Lemming

thermo wrote: »

the problem with getting BFG's (9mm, 12g ect) is you will need a permit to have them,,,,,, lots of hassle!

I stand open to correction here; but the permit is for the blankfires, not the grenade itself. Hence why there are restrictions on usage of BFGs at Irish sites - i.e. blankfires must be left at sites with permits but grenades can be brought home etc - but not in the UK.

NakedDex

As far as I know, that's correct. Getting the licence for the actual blank rounds is the issue, not getting the grenade device itself.

Firekitten

IIrc, in the uk we dont need anything for a bfg or ammo... but in Ireland, I remember Paul at HRTA saying that one can own the bfg... no problem, but ammo needs to be left on site... as its required to be looked after by a pyro licence holder? or something like that.

thermo

in order to get the ammo the item that sets the ammo off must be held with a permit! be it a bfp or bfg

Firekitten

Live ammo....

the grenade is a blank firer, with no way of 'firing' a live round....

thermo

im well aware of the ins and outs of dealing blankfire equipment,,,,,,, in order to get a blankfire pistol(theatrical prop), starting pistol (sports), blank fire grenade ect they must have a permit issued by the local super

Firekitten

I'll bow to your knowlage of the subject... But I was under the impression that the amunition was the clincher here. It's been mentioned as such by several Irish retailers.

thermo

Firekitten wrote: »

I'll bow to your knowlage of the subject... But I was under the impression that the amunition was the clincher here. It's been mentioned as such by several Irish retailers.

its a bit of a grey area but how iv outlined it is how its works in practicality. its a sh*t deal but then our laws are quite flawed and backward when dealing with pyros, blackpowder ect,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Firekitten

Revising my statement, its 'helpful' to notify the local guard of posession.

it IS a class A2, ie, military training tool. One can buy it, its not illegal to have it, but the guard will ask questions asm ost of them dont understand miltary law/ marshal law. Permit isnt required to own a grenade. Just the ammo.



The ammo is Class A restricted. so yes, permit for ammo, ie blank fire licence. THAT is what the permit part is thermo, I think you missed the separation...

Frank the Manc

Firekitten wrote: »

IF the guard told him not to sell it... its illegal. Therefore, customs will seize it... Its not rocket science to work out, try it sometime... logic is fun. :rolleyes:

Well not exactly, the gardai are tasked with enforcing the laws in this country, not enacting, legislating for or writing new laws as they see fit.
Nor are customs.

See previous history where the Gardai tried, unsuccessfully to force all gunowners to purchase and intall a safe, by refusing to issue liscences until same had been done. This was held to be an unconstitutional overstepping of their powers and was quickly backtracked upon.

If you want one of those grenades you may legally import it unless it contravenes legislation, however customs may hold it for testing etc.

As for uncorroborated stories that x was asked not to sell by Gardai, id treat it with a pinch of salt until it can be confirmed first hand.

Its amazing what some poeple will tell you instead of the truth.:rolleyes:

thermo

Firekitten wrote: »

THAT is what the permit part is thermo, I think you missed the separation...

if YOU say so!! not gonna even bothering with this anymore quoting parts of law is BS, it works in theory,,,,,,,, but i said in practicality how it works,,,,,,,,,,

but sure hey what do i know,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

xxboylarzxx

hitman_ wrote: »

AFAIK, the Zoxna works on the same principles as the Tornado (open to correction), Both take around 200 bb's, both use green/red gas, Both eject and spread the bb's a few seconds after the pin is pulled. If the Tornado is legal then so is the Zoxna imo. Both work great with regular cleaning & maintenance. Maybe someone with knowledge of any legal problems could comment. I am assuming these are classed as toy grenades for customs purposes under Taric 9503 00 81 90 ??

Frank the Manc wrote: »

Well not exactly, the gardai are tasked with enforcing the laws in this country, not enacting, legislating for or writing new laws as they see fit.
Nor are customs.

See previous history where the Gardai tried, unsuccessfully to force all gunowners to purchase and intall a safe, by refusing to issue liscences until same had been done. This was held to be an unconstitutional overstepping of their powers and was quickly backtracked upon.

If you want one of those grenades you may legally import it unless it contravenes legislation, however customs may hold it for testing etc.

As for uncorroborated stories that x was asked not to sell by Gardai, id treat it with a pinch of salt until it can be confirmed first hand.

Its amazing what some poeple will tell you instead of the truth.:rolleyes:

thanks alot for your help! i was just worried that i was going to waste 100 euro!ill make sure there is no law to them before i go further,i wrote to the iaa and im awaiting a reply to double check:)

Dread-Lock

xxboylarzxx wrote: »

thanks alot for your help! i was just worried that i was going to waste 100 euro!ill make sure there is no law to them before i go further,i wrote to the iaa and im awaiting a reply to double check:)

Would you let us (me) know what they say as I was about to buy one until I read this thread.

xxboylarzxx

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Would you let us (me) know what they say as I was about to buy one until I read this thread.

no probbs will do!!

i was myself to!