New information for pistol holders

daveob007

Hi all.
I have just recieved some info and was asked to post it for pistol holders.
Under the si for authorised ranges a person will only be granted a licence for a pistol for use on authorised ranges only for the purpose of target shooting and competition shooting.
The use of pistols for humane dispatch will be illegal and anyone applying for a pistol for this purpose will be refused.
Also anyone using a pistol anywhere except an authorised range will have the licence revoked.
If you want to keep your pistol you will have to prove membership of a range which is authorised by the doj and you will have to prove a good attendance record and take part in some competitions.
This means that anyone who joins a range just for a membership record and who does not use the range for that purpose will come under scrutiny by the gardai and might have the licence taken away unless they prove that they have not been able to attend for a good reason.
Also if anyone is caught with a pistol anywhere outside a range will be charged with concealment of a weapon and face prosecution.
You are of course allowed to transport your gun to and from the range but if you go into a shop or somewhere carrying the gun then you are in big trouble.
This was just given to me this morning by a range operator who has contacts within the fcp and this info was given to him only yesterday.

bunny shooter

Common sense and proper order really :cool:

Hasn't this been the case for the last while?

daveob007

Deleted User wrote: »

Hasn't this been the case for the last while?

not sure if the deer hunters were aware of this,,just posted it to alert everyone to the new regime....
common sense alright..but we have to do things by the letter this time or else the whole thing could fall under the axe.

bunny shooter

daveob007 wrote: »

not sure if the deer hunters were aware of this,,just posted it to alert everyone to the new regime....
common sense alright..but we have to do things by the letter this time or else the whole thing could fall under the axe.

Maybe if things were done right in the first place things might be different now :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Sorry to pee on the congratulations on going further down a police state.BUT has anyone considerd how draconian this is now??
HOW often will you have to attend??once a week,month?
HOW many matches will anyone have to enter[and proably win?]
HOW does it work if you are a Practical shooter and are regd in NI/Uk in a ligit sport up there but resident down here.Does that count???
Welcome to Police state Ireland...This is beginning to make East Germany and Communist China look like paragons of democracy.

4gun

compelling you to be a member of a club in order to keep what already yours, wait until some range owner gets greedy, if they are fire arms dealers youwill be compelled to do all your dealing (new guns, ammo ect.0 through him and only him ....or else

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry to pee on the congratulations on going further down a police state.BUT has anyone considerd how draconian this is now??
HOW often will you have to attend??once a week,month?
HOW many matches will anyone have to enter[and proably win?]
HOW does it work if you are a Practical shooter and are regd in NI/Uk in a ligit sport up there but resident down here.Does that count???
Welcome to Police state Ireland...This is beginning to make East Germany and Communist China look like paragons of democracy.

I find myself yet again agreeing with bunny :eek: on this one Grizzly.

If people had actually remained members of the clubs they joined in order to get licences for pistols (for target shooting purposes) then there probably wouldn't have had to have been this requirement.

People took the p*ss and now the pendulum has swung against them. The people who will suffer are the guys who now have to have paperwork coming out their ears to prove what they've been doing all along.

Grizzly 45

RR,
WHAT I am more concerned about is these as usual vauge requirements...
Is it now suss if somone shows up once a month?",bi monthly,what is now an acceptable attendance????Ah he just got it because he wants it for dubious reasons" Or he shows up every damn week and shoots 500/1000 rounds."Ah he must be planning a massacre." Could apply there too.
Enter "some competitions"How many is now acceptable??Some people[myself included] are just not competitive.Fine we go into this cumpolsory competition,and just shoot to enjoy ourselves..Couldnt care less if I won nothing...ever..Now it's "Ah shure he didnt try hard enogh,hs could do better...He must be doing somthing suss!"
FFS this is supposed to be enjoyable,not a regimented exercise to prove you are not some dubious chacter..
Some of us dont have regular work weeks or months for that matter.I could be looking at the phone for two months before it rings with work,then I mightnt have time to shag or scratch for another month.Now,do I have to explain my tardiness at the range like a school kid dodging PE to the headmaster???
Thats what I am saying...Who is deciding whats too little or too much??Its too arbitary.

daveob007

I think the main thing here is that it shows you are actually attending the rang at some time.
I was told of a few unamed members who have not used the range in over 6 months and their reasons for having a pistol would be questioned.
This is really to weed out those few who are joining ranges and then going off doing their own thing like shooting bunnies with 9mm pistols or shooting in unauthorised places where they could be seen.
The fact is that pistols are now being licenced (FOR TARGET SHOOTING)
at proper authorised ranges only for that purpose.
I suppose its because of this that this new regime is now in force.
I don't go every week and sometimes it can be 4 or 5 weeks before I can go due to work,but because I do go at least oce a month and sometimes more I should be ok.
None of us like it but thats the way it is and we it gets abused we might lose the whole lot.

G17

I'm assuming restricted firearm holders are waiting to see the new guidelines when they're published?

What are you doing, applying now with no club/range pulse I.D. or waiting for your range/club to be issued with one?

That's what I'm doing, I mean we have a little time to mull things over rather than sending off the application with some of the required info and fingers crossed?

What are you guys/gals doing at this stage?

I waiting for the approved storage act to make sure that I comply (don't see any problems here tbh).

Then will send in new forms, thats what my local FO said to do.

bunny shooter

Am applying NOW! Extensions up on 31/10/09. Name of range will do for now ?

I was inspected a few months ago for storage and it was ok so expect it still to be ok

Cass

I agree that stricter controls can be a good thing. I had a numpty tell me once about how he loved popping foxes with his .40 pistol. Never attends the range. Grizzly 45 is also right that if it becomes too strict it ceases to be a sport. Thing is i go to my club every week. Great attendance record. How can anyone check to see if i shoot pistol each weekend. When i swipe in, it only records my being there not what i do or how long or often i do it. I don't take part in competitions as they are few and far between (seems to be a moratorium on comps at the moment) plus i'm shooting for the practise and enjoyment of it. So does that mean i risk losing my license because i don't fit the exact profile of a target shooter.

Originally posted by G17
I'm assuming restricted firearm holders are waiting to see the new guidelines when they're published?

What are you doing, applying now with no club/range pulse I.D. or waiting for your range/club to be issued with one?

I'm not worried about the approved storage act. House is already like Fort Knox. I'm not sending of the application as the club doesn't have its pulse id yet. My extension runs out on 31/10/09 (only got them today)so by the time i get all the info and send it off it'll be nearly a month late, but i'd sooner that than have it returned or refused because the forms were improperly filled out.

bunny shooter

Well my argument will be that if THEY got THEIR act together IN TIME then I would have the range pulse number on my application :mad:

If your licence isn't granted within the extension time limit you will probably have to hand in the firearms while they sort out the licences :eek: and my Super has just taken the best part of 5 months to issues my latest rifle licence (new application) :rolleyes:

Cass

bunny shooter wrote: »

Well my argument will be that if THEY got THEIR act together IN TIME then I would have the range pulse number on my application :mad:

If your licence isn't granted within the extension time limit you will probably have to hand in the firearms while they sort out the licences :eek: and my Super has just taken the best part of 5 months to issues my latest rifle licence (new application) :rolleyes:

Spot on about getting their act together. Should have made the ranges/clubs apply for id number at least one month prior to new licenses. Have to say though, i've never had any application take more than 4 weeks, 5 max. Different for each area i suppose. Will not be surrendering any firearms for someone elses mess up. This 3 month thing is just to give themselves more than enough time to process, check out applicants. 2 or 2 and a bit months will still give them time. Meeting FO tonight anyway so i'll see what he suggests.

G17

ezridax wrote: »

Meeting FO tonight anyway so i'll see what he suggests.

Let us know how you get on if you can.

Cass

Right lads, straight from the horses mouth. My FO said that the 3 month time frame for submitting licenses is just that, a time frame. I explained to him about the club not having a pulse ID yet and that i didn't want to submit application without it. He said he will have the forms (FCA1) in a day or 2 and would call me over to go through one with him. He told me to then take as many as i need home, fill them in and when i have all other necessary info (club pulse ID, photos, permissions ((hunting only)) etc) to send the completed forms away. Once they are submitted within the 3 month time frame and a few weeks before the expiry of the extensions then all will be sound.

So all i can do is take him at face value. No reason not to. He has never steered me wrong in the past and as a shooter himself he is very understanding and helpful.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

Right lads, straight from the horses mouth. My FO said that the 3 month time frame for submitting licenses is just that, a time frame. I explained to him about the club not having a pulse ID yet and that i didn't want to submit application without it. He said he will have the forms (FCA1) in a day or 2 and would call me over to go through one with him. He told me to then take as many as i need home, fill them in and when i have all other necessary info (club pulse ID, photos, permissions ((hunting only)) etc) to send the completed forms away. Once they are submitted within the 3 month time frame and a few weeks before the expiry of the extensions then all will be sound.

So all i can do is take him at face value. No reason not to. He has never steered me wrong in the past and as a shooter himself he is very understanding and helpful.

There won't be club pulse ID's for quite a while because part of the legislation (the ranges SI) hasn't be commenced and the form is such a mess, nobody in their right mind would sign it.

Apart from the fact that the cost of that little form is €1000

Breachloader

I recieved my extension letters yesterday (31/10/09), so all is well and good there.
However I am moving abroad next month for a year or two and need my license's before then, cause I'm taking guns with me.
As a result I have already filled out the new forms (omitting range pulse etc.) and ticked yes to the secure firearms stuff on the assumption that my house already more then meets any requiements.

I would have submitted it already today, but my FO is on Hols and so is the superintendant.
If I drop it in tomorrow can the inspector tend to it or will it sit waiting for supers return.. I'm on a deadline here like as I leave in 5 weeks!!!!!

What you think? And would it be possible to go straight to the chief super and explain my case???

Cheers.

BR..

daveob007

I printed my forms form the garda website and filled in most of them,waiting for the si to be published before i send them in incase there is something new in it,
The minister did say that there would be tighter security controls so wait and see.

Bananaman

The minister did say that there would be tighter security controls

Most likely it will simply say you must have a safe and alarm - especially for Restricted stuff: Handguns, Fullbore Rifles, etc.

Even though this was always done it was never 'required' - making it 'required' is worth a press release to the Politicos.

I'd guess that the smallbore rifles and shotguns will be exempt unless you live in a large urban area or else the IFA would eat Dermo for lunch.

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

Most likely it will simply say you must have a safe and alarm - especially for Restricted stuff: Handguns, Fullbore Rifles, etc.

Fullbore rifles up to .308" (7.62mm) are not restricted.

macnas

daveob007 wrote: »

Hi all.
I have just recieved some info and was asked to post it for pistol holders.
Under the si for authorised ranges a person will only be granted a licence for a pistol for use on authorised ranges only for the purpose of target shooting and competition shooting.
The use of pistols for humane dispatch will be illegal and anyone applying for a pistol for this purpose will be refused.
Also anyone using a pistol anywhere except an authorised range will have the licence revoked.
If you want to keep your pistol you will have to prove membership of a range which is authorised by the doj and you will have to prove a good attendance record and take part in some competitions.
This means that anyone who joins a range just for a membership record and who does not use the range for that purpose will come under scrutiny by the gardai and might have the licence taken away unless they prove that they have not been able to attend for a good reason.
Also if anyone is caught with a pistol anywhere outside a range will be charged with concealment of a weapon and face prosecution.
You are of course allowed to transport your gun to and from the range but if you go into a shop or somewhere carrying the gun then you are in big trouble.
This was just given to me this morning by a range operator who has contacts within the fcp and this info was given to him only yesterday.

Dave,
Who gave you this information and who asked you to post it here?

rrpc

Well, al lot of that is in the firearms act, most particularly the 2006 Act and specifically section 32 of same.

There's nothing in the firearms acts about it being illegal to have a pistol for humane despatch. The same criteria still hold: "good and sufficient reason" although with restricted firearms (centre fire pistols have been restricted firearms since February 2008) you also need to have demonstrated that the firearm is the only type of firearm appropriate for the purpose.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

There won't be club pulse ID's for quite a while because part of the legislation (the ranges SI) hasn't be commenced and the form is such a mess, nobody in their right mind would sign it.

Apart from the fact that the cost of that little form is €1000

Was told by one of the trustees of MNSCI that they'll have it in 2 - 3 weeks. I don't know about it myself so like the info given to me by my FO i have to go on what people with better knowledge than myself have. If you don't mind me asking what are you intending on doing or what would you do in my position. Hold off for the number and hope i get the application in on time or just fill it in, send it off and hope that they process it without all the required data?

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

Was told by one of the trustees of MNSCI that they'll have it in 2 - 3 weeks. I don't know about it myself so like the info given to me by my FO i have to go on what people with better knowledge than myself have. If you don't mind me asking what are you intending on doing or what would you do in my position. Hold off for the number and hope i get the application in on time or just fill it in, send it off and hope that they process it without all the required data?

The club name should be sufficient. It's not as though there are hundreds of clubs in the country and they won't know which one you mean

G17

ezridax wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking what are you intending on doing or what would you do in my position. Hold off for the number and hope i get the application in on time or just fill it in, send it off and hope that they process it without all the required data?

I'm gonna wait to see what the guidelines say, maybe there's a section on 'pending' Club Pulse I.D. numbers where they'll give the ok to apply for your cert to forward those details later. But if they're playing hard ball, and why not, any club who doesn't have their range/club authorisation details ready (well as much info as possible based on the likely requests) is gonna be in a panic..........

rrpc

G17 wrote: »

I'm gonna wait to see what the guidelines say, maybe there's a section on 'pending' Club Pulse I.D. numbers where they'll give the ok to apply for your cert to forward those details later. But, any club who doesn't have their range/club authorisation details ready (well as much info as possible based on the likely requests) is gonna be in a panic..........

You're forgetting that range authorisations run out the same date as the licences: 31st July 2009

So we're in a renewal situation with them as well and if our last one is anything to go by, you wouldn't want to be holding your breath. We applied in June (being early and all that) and got the new one in January. :eek:

bunny shooter

ezridax wrote: »

Was told by one of the trustees of MNSCI that they'll have it in 2 - 3 weeks. I don't know about it myself so like the info given to me by my FO i have to go on what people with better knowledge than myself have. If you don't mind me asking what are you intending on doing or what would you do in my position. Hold off for the number and hope i get the application in on time or just fill it in, send it off and hope that they process it without all the required data?

I rang one of the owners today and was advised they have no idea when they will recieve it :eek:

G17

rrpc wrote: »

You're forgetting that range authorisations run out the same date as the licences: 31st July 2009

So we're in a renewal situation with them as well and if our last one is anything to go by, you wouldn't want to be holding your breath. We applied in June (being early and all that) and got the new one in January. :eek:

Eek indeed! Our club auth has no expiry date on the official doc, maybe that'd sneak us in!!

But what you're reckoning is they'll accept cert applications with an established club name, that'd be good.

Also because there's only a handful of clubs it won't (shouldn't) take that long really now that there's a 'push' on? Come down, see the range, poo poo the range, rebuild the range, certify the range, poo poo the club, set up the club, authorise the club, Pulse I.D.

Simple. :eek: