Counties with Motorway

JupiterKid

Just 5 or so years ago, the only motorways in the country were all in Leinster, and in a handful of Eastern counties at that: Dublin, Kildare (the first county to have motorway), Wicklow (albeit 1 km!), Meath, Louth and Laois.

But with the rollout of the MIUs, how this has changed. Now ALL the historic 4 provinces have motorway (In Ulster's case, I mean NI of course)

Here's my list of counties that now have sections motorway within their boundaries:

Dublin
Kildare
Meath
Wicklow
Louth
Laois
Cork
Westmeath
Offaly
Roscommon
Tipperary
Carlow
Limerick
Clare

and soon:
Galway
Kilkenny

fricatus

JupiterKid wrote: »

and soon:
Galway
Kilkenny

I'm sure you're referring to the M9 there when you mention Kilkenny, but don't forget that a short stretch of the M8 (near Urlingford and already open) passes through Co Kilkenny.

There's also Wexford, which will feature a stretch of motorway once the N11 (Gorey bypass) is redesignated.

TiwstaSista

funny how time flies eh? now, the whole country is tasting what development has to offer.

cc

was the M8 section from Culahill to Cashel that opened last year the first section to open outside Leinster? (excluding NI Motorways)
**EDIT** Forgot about the Fermoy Bypass!

Amtmann

Cue people coming on later complaining that Kerry, Donegal and Ballygobackwards don't have motorways, and stating the unfairness of it all, etc.

mike65

Waterford is already fuming! :pac:

Harps

Bah! We get nothing in this part of the country

In fairness I know its not really needed but theres a few major roads that haven't been touched in years so I can understand people complaining.

Great progress compared to just a few years ago though and credit where its due to the government

L1011

Furet wrote: »

Cue people coming on later complaining that Kerry, Donegal and Ballygobackwards don't have motorways, and stating the unfairness of it all, etc.

Elderly people in East Donegal call the N13 DC "the motorway" and from experience even younger people in Ballygobackwards, sorry, Sligo, call the N4 DC the same thing. The Sligo one is actually motorway grade for some distance too!

So the locals will think they have motorways when they don't

What counties are still DC-less? Mayo, Kerry, Cavan, Monaghan (well it has a Type 3 DC...) any others?

Stark

MYOB wrote: »

So the locals will think they have motorways when they don't

They'll complain regardless. The road around Donegal town is one of the best quality roads in the country, despite serving a town of only 3000 people.

Actually that reminds me of a time I got stopped by a woman for directions near Mulhuddart: "Excuse me, how do get onto the M50 from here?". "Oh that's easy", I said, "you can see the junction with the N3 dual carriageway from here, just get on the dual carriageway and it will take you straight to the M50 interchange". "Oh I don't want to take the motorway to get onto it...".

orbital83

MYOB wrote: »

What counties are still DC-less? Mayo, Kerry, Cavan, Monaghan (well it has a Type 3 DC...) any others?

Longford

icdg

mike65 wrote: »

Waterford is already fuming! :pac:

Waterford won't have to wait too long to join the motorway club, had the N25 been redesignated, it would have had two!

As for counties without motorways, Donegal will never have any (well, I doubt it), Sligo, Cavan, Longford, Mayo, Kerry, and Leitrim come to mind.

Counties with the most motorways (once open/redesignated, according to current plans...)

Dublin: 5 - M1, M2, M3, M11, & M50
Meath: 4 - M1, M2, M3, & M4
Kildare: 3 - M4, M7, & M9.
Galway: 3- M6, M17, & M18
Westmeath: 2 - M4 & M6
Laois: 2 - M7 & M8
Limerick: 2 - M7 & M20

I've probably missed out some, and should point out that despite Meath seemingly have the second highest number of motorways after Dublin, the M1 & M4 both in fact only one junction in Meath and the M1 only travels through the county for a few km.

mike65

Waterford will not have motorway cos the M9 will turn into a city road by the time it reaches the county/city border.

See pic

The N25 being single carriageway will be waiting a long time.

L1011

John J wrote: »

Longford

Would think a TINY amount of the N4 Dromod-Roosky DC is in Longford? If not, good spot, as I'd not even thought of it

L1011

mike65 wrote: »

The N25 being single carriageway will be waiting a long time.

The bypass is the N25! This is what he meant by if it had been redesignated...

mike65

Right...23 Kms of which about 10 is in Waterford - we are blessed

Carawaystick

The M1 has 2 exit's in Meath going northbound and one other exit that leaves the M1 mainline in Dublin but is crosses into Meath before there is any junction from the exit slip.

And Limerick has the M8 accessible only from Tipp and Cork, but clearly signed at the county boundaries.

And According to Google Maps* Longford has about 10m of Dual Carriageway on the N4, the RAB with the R371 is just across the county line from Leitrim.

For Completeness.

* can't swear Google are right, but this seems to agree
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/LeitrimCountyCouncil/N4DromodRoosky/Map,16483,en.pdf

funnyname

Any sign of services stations opening on the motorways in the near future?

mysterious

I suspect Mayo and Donegal are not going to be happy:D

Amtmann

icdg wrote: »

I've probably missed out some, and should point out that despite Meath seemingly have the second highest number of motorways after Dublin, the M1 & M4 both in fact only one junction in Meath and the M1 only travels through the county for a few km.

Tipp will have two (M7 and M8), while Limerick will also have the M8 - though only for about two kilometres and without a junction so it hardly counts.

fricatus

You could add Waterford to the list if they would just open the new N25 bypass as a motorway, but for some reason (not wanting isolated stretches of motorway :rolleyes:), the NRA won't do it, leaving the way free for three separate local authorities to rezone land for dodgy development along the route.

Kilkenny will have two stretches of motorway by the way: M8 (a little bit near Urlingford) and M9 - three if they ever redesignate the Waterford bypass, because the section north of the new Suir bridge is in Co Kilkenny.

KevR

What county will have the most motorway in terms of kilometres?

Amtmann

Either Tipp or Kildare I'd suspect. Or Meath?

1huge1

Furet wrote: »

Tipp will have two (M7 and M8), while Limerick will also have the M8 - though only for about two kilometres and without a junction so it hardly counts.

Ha it counts.

Zoney

Could well be Tipperary with the most due to substantial part of the M7 and M8 going through. Even with the M9 I'm not sure Kildare will have quite as much length of motorway.

BluntGuy

funnyname wrote: »

Any sign of services stations opening on the motorways in the near future?

Very little.

SeanW

Furet wrote: »

Either Tipp or Kildare I'd suspect. Or Meath?

Meath I suspect, the M4 to the South, the M3 Clonee-Navan, the M2 to be designated, and the M1 even makes an appearance albeit briefly to the East.

Tipp would be my second guess.

D'Peoples Voice

we in Offaly will be gifted with having the highest percentage of national (primary/secondary) roads accounted for by motorways - the M6 and the M7:)

KevR

Furet wrote: »

Either Tipp or Kildare I'd suspect. Or Meath?

When the M6, 17 & 18 are all completed, Galway will have roughly 123km of motorway I think.

Does anyone know how that will compare to Tipperary, Kildare and Meath?

Zoney

I think the M8 in Tipp will be almost 70 km, and the M7 length is surely over 50 km.

I think Kildare it's something like 110 km total.

As for Meath - not that much of M4 is in it, not that much of M1, tiny M2, and then it's just M3 to make up the rest - which I think doesn't compare with significant lengths of M4/M7/M9 in Kildare and M7/M8 in Tipperary.

As regards Galway - M17 is probably some way off still.

chewed

icdg wrote: »

Waterford won't have to wait too long to join the motorway club, had the N25 been redesignated, it would have had two!

As for counties without motorways, Donegal will never have any (well, I doubt it), Sligo, Cavan, Longford, Mayo, Kerry, and Leitrim come to mind.

Counties with the most motorways (once open/redesignated, according to current plans...)

Dublin: 5 - M1, M2, M3, M11, & M50
Meath: 4 - M1, M2, M3, & M4
Kildare: 3 - M4, M7, & M9.
Galway: 3- M6, M17, & M18
Westmeath: 2 - M4 & M6
Laois: 2 - M7 & M8
Limerick: 2 - M7 & M20

I've probably missed out some, and should point out that despite Meath seemingly have the second highest number of motorways after Dublin, the M1 & M4 both in fact only one junction in Meath and the M1 only travels through the county for a few km.

Can the M3 be considered to be in Dublin since it only begins after Clonee, in Co. Meath?

Carawaystick

chewed wrote: »

Can the M3 be considered to be in Dublin since it only begins after Clonee, in Co. Meath?

The maps in this
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/10978-0908_2ND_TRANCHE_N3_LEAFLET-4.PDF
show the M3 starts in Dublin.

nordydan

Tipperary
Kildare
Dublin
Meath
Galway

are the top five. See attached:

chewed

I stand corrected! I actually thought it was only motorway from after the boarder!

JupiterKid

I haven't done any calculations - but I would reckon Kildare and Tipperary would top the list.

ongarboy

well, seeing as most counties will have motorways by 2010, of the counties that will be left without motorways, I wonder how many don't even have dual carriageways? Kerry currently doesn't have any but the Castleisland bypass (currently under construction and the only new project to go ahead since the cutbacks) will have dual carriageway when it is completed in Q4 of next year.Are there other counties that have neither motorways or DCs? I imagine at this stage, just a small minority of counties or is Kerry the only one without either currently?

JayeL

ongarboy wrote: »

Are there other counties that have neither motorways or DCs?

Monaghan has a 2+1 but no DC. Mayo has nothing close to DC. And amazingly, I think that's it. Offaly just scrapes in, as does Roscommon. I think that Longford has small one in the Dromod-Roosky 2+2. And Kerry will have a very short one in Castleisland. But that's it, doing ok really!

icdg

chewed wrote: »

I stand corrected! I actually thought it was only motorway from after the boarder!

In fairness, it will only be a couple of hundred metres from the county boundary. I had neglected to mention that there is also slightly less than 1km of the M4 in Dublin also - from the J5 demerge to the bridge over the Liffey.

The M11 in Dublin is also pretty short. Really, Dublin's only two main motorways are the M1 and M50.

Monaghan has a 2+1 but no DC

If it is a "true" 2+1 (ie. D2+1 - with a barrier in the middle, as opposed to a climbing lane (S2+1) which some people equate to the same thing), then that is strictly speaking a dual carriageway. Indeed you can have a dual carriageway with one lane in each direction (D1) - it is the barrier between the carriageways that makes it "dual" and not the number of lanes each way.

As for counties without a dual carriageway, Kerry, Mayo, and Cavan are the only ones which spring to mind at the top of my head.

L1011

Monaghan's T3DC does certainly have a barrier down the middle.

Skyhater

icdg wrote: »

As for counties without motorways, Donegal will never have any (well, I doubt it)......

Never say never. I believe they are planning on running a HQDC (that will probably be designated motorway) from the A5 DC to Letterkenny.

icdg wrote: »

If it is a "true" 2+1 (ie. D2+1 - with a barrier in the middle, as opposed to a climbing lane (S2+1) which some people equate to the same thing), then that is strictly speaking a dual carriageway. ....

Yes, The Castleblayney By-Pass has barriers down the middle and thus officially is a DC.
Don't get me started on it though. A "new build" road should never be a 2+1... It's just a waste of money. 10% extra investment would have given a 2+2. I've hear that Monaghan county council argued this point with the NRA, but the NRA were determined to go ahead with their "pilot scheme".

This N2 (at least from the N33 to the Border) is likely to be upgraded to at least 2+2 if not HQDC when/if we get out of this economic mess. This will link up with the A5 DC.

L1011

NRA were probably under pressure from "road safety experts" who assumed that because Sweden has 2+1s and a low death rate that they were the ultimate panacea, and as a result had to "trial" them.

Unfortunately they trialled them far too bloody often! Once was enough, not the three (N2/N20/N24) we ended up with.

Stark

The big problem with the 2+1s was how badly the NRA implemented them, rather than the concept itself. Having only a few hundred metres at a time to overtake just makes the whole thing grind to a halt.

shovelsfc

JupiterKid wrote: »

Just 5 or so years ago, the only motorways in the country were all in Leinster, and in a handful of Eastern counties at that: Dublin, Kildare (the first county to have motorway), Wicklow (albeit 1 km!), Meath, Louth and Laois.

But with the rollout of the MIUs, how this has changed. Now ALL the historic 4 provinces have motorway (In Ulster's case, I mean NI of course)

Here's my list of counties that now have sections motorway within their boundaries:

Dublin
Kildare
Meath
Wicklow
Louth
Laois
Cork
Westmeath
Offaly
Roscommon
Tipperary
Carlow
Limerick
Clare

and soon:
Galway
Kilkenny

where is bypassed in roscommon? ballinasloe....athlone road!

shovelsfc

JayeL wrote: »

Monaghan has a 2+1 but no DC. Mayo has nothing close to DC. And amazingly, I think that's it. Offaly just scrapes in, as does Roscommon. I think that Longford has small one in the Dromod-Roosky 2+2. And Kerry will have a very short one in Castleisland. But that's it, doing ok really!

agree with you there!

L1011

shovelsfc wrote: »

where is bypassed in roscommon? ballinasloe....athlone road!

Nowhere. But its got a motorway, either way.



The 'problem' with longer 2+1 sections is when you get stuck on a long stretch of the +1 behind a very slow vehicle that doesn't use the laybys to let you pass. Even when laybys are explicitly signed for slow vehicles to pull in to let people pass (on the N14 where new ones were built and signed for this purpose) Irish drivers NEVER do it.

Skyhater

MYOB wrote: »

NRA were probably under pressure from "road safety experts" who assumed that because Sweden has 2+1s and a low death rate that they were the ultimate panacea, and as a result had to "trial" them.

But the 2+2 proposed by Monaghan Co Co would have given better safety, better driving experience, better everything for 10% extra spend.
Maybe a 2+1 is justified when retrofitting existing roads to improve safety, but not for a new build.
I don't know for sure, but I would be surprised if the Swedes build any new 2+1's.

MYOB wrote: »

Unfortunately they trialled them far too bloody often! Once was enough, not the three (N2/N20/N24) we ended up with.

Totally Agree!!! One or two retrofits would have given them the information they required.

Stark wrote:

The big problem with the 2+1s was how badly the NRA implemented them, rather than the concept itself. Having only a few hundred metres at a time to overtake just makes the whole thing grind to a halt.

That's only one of the problems. Not having a hard shoulder or adequate amount of lay-by's is another. There's also little/no room to slow down before a left turn.
And as MYOB says if you make the 2 lane stretch longer, traffic gets backed up on the 1 stretch behind a tractor or something. It's a balance that cannot be achieved with any kind of success.

Wild Bill

mike65 wrote: »

Waterford will not have motorway cos the M9 will turn into a city road by the time it reaches the county/city border.

See pic

The N25 being single carriageway will be waiting a long time.

That's one nice pic! (Is that another collapsed railway bridge I see?)

The M9 looks like it is aimed at the toll plaza across the river; the N25, N24 and M9 seem to be joined up in the style of the Luas lines in Dublin!

Was this the original plan or did those Vikings get in the way?

L1011

Wild Bill wrote: »

That's one nice pic! (Is that another collapsed railway bridge I see?)

Section was deliberately removed and remains on CIE land somewhere in Waterford.

fricatus

Wild Bill wrote: »

Was this the original plan or did those Vikings get in the way?

That was the original plan. The Vikings got in the way on the south side of the river, at Woodstown (follow the road across the bridge in the pic towards the right, and it's about 4 km out that way).

If you look at Open Street Map you can see the path of the road that's under construction and how it swings around near the junction of the new road and the Outer Ring (R710), taking a path between the new WIT campus and the Woodstown viking site.

Victor

Moved to Infrastructure.

Tech3

Kerry – not in the corridor
The National Spatial Strategy sets out an ambitious plan for the integrated development of a national transport and development infrastructure. part of this is the Atlantic Corridor, which runs down the west coast, but bypasses Kerry. The result could be that the county will be left on the side-lines according to Mossie Carey from Wateville.

THE Atlantic Corridor is a quality road link that will run through every coastal county in Ireland from Donegal to Waterford - except Kerry. It is that part of the Gateways Initiative which determines the future of all coastal counties - including Kerry!

The Gateways Initiative has the more descriptive title of Gateway Investment Priorities, chief amongst them being 'completion of the major inter-urban routes between Dublin and Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford and improved road and transport links between the Gateways.'

These cities were given priority in the National Development Plan and the National Spatial Strategy added Letterkenny, with emphasis on its link with Derry, as Dublin had earlier been linked to Belfast. But it also added Dundalk, Sligo and Athlone-MullingarTullamore as a linked Midland Gateway. Yet the book on future investment in the country was not closed; for when the Gateways Initiative was set up it admitted the hope that other Gateways would be identified.

We can now see into the future, not as prophets but as ordinary readers who can see what has been planned for us at the highest level of Government. The plan comes to fruition as we read. 'Completion of the major inter-urban roads,' says the plan and work on the Gort Bypass is proudly proclaimed as part of the Atlantic Corridor.

Everywhere we go in the country the major road improvements lead from one Gateway to the other. These schemes are truly major developments, frequently running across the entire width or length of a county that forms a link between the Gateways. The income to those counties from these improvements is enormous.

We can even see how this situation has come about; for the Gateways Initiative is clear that it 'must draw its support from constituent local authorities (county councils) and their plans and programmes.' Every county whose future was being decided by the Gateways Initiative sent representatives from the county council and they, in turn, involved leaders of industry, tourism and institutes of technology or universities. Every county had several representatives at the table - except Kerry, which had none.

The result of this is that Kerry is not in the Atlantic Corridor. The quality road will run directly from Limerick, through Mallow, to Cork without, it appears, any murmur of opposition from a single TD, county councillor or executive of Kerry County Council. On this road our tourists will go sailing by.

At the time the National Development Plan was published, Kerry had already declined from being the eighth poorest county in the country to the second poorest and that decline coincided with the lifetime of the County Development Plan 19962003. But the new County Development Plan strengthened the anti development objectives and weakened those that support it - and yet another this year has done the same. That attitude is surely consistent with the decision not to participate in the Gateways Initiative.

The unstated decision to promote tourism above all else rather than beside all else has been taken and is being diligently followed, without regard to economic return. No other county went down while the country was going up. No other county saw one contiguous county, Cork, rise from 13 per cent richer to 16 per cent richer and another contiguous county, Limerick, rise from 13 per cent to 17 per cent richer than we are in terms of disposable income per head.

At the time the Gateways Initiative was set up only Donegal was poorer than this county but nobody can fail to note that Donegal is firmly in the Gateways Initiative.

Policy making in the county has not been captured by a sectional interest but the illusion of one; for there is no indication that hoteliers in the county support it. So they shouldn't, as the premier position of tourism in this county could well be the next to go in this ongoing process of decline. The Gateways Initiative Report is careful to note the strengths of Gateways and their regions in all areas of economic activity but when it came to discussing tourism there is no mention of Kerry or Killarney in its 120 or so pages. Instead, it goes beyond the National Development Plan and National Spatial Strategy and pleads with the Government to make the Gateways the premier tourist locations. ' The Gateways are highly important to the Irish Tourism sector and a large proportion of tourism activity is attributable to the Gateways,' it proclaims in tautological terms before leading into the real intention.

'Our view is therefore that there must be a change of perspective in tourism planning with a recognition that Gateways are essential drivers of tourism for their regions and not centres from which tourism needs to be diverted.'

If Killarney or Kerry as a whole were to be considered in the Cork or Cork-Limerick Gateway Region there is no indication there that it has a present strength on which the Gateways Initiative would build. The call for a new perspective is a call not to recognise what pertains at present but to legislate for what will pertain with the controlled provision of investment. The call has gone surprisingly far in stating clearly that there should be no need for the new centre to divert tourism elsewhere. This means it need not be diverted to Killarney or Kerry, where it had resided until it was carefully planned away from there.

Such an intention would never have been declared if a single person from Kerry had sat at the Gateways Initiative table. But we can understand it, as Professor F.M. L Thompson understood it at the end of his monumental study on the decline of the Landed Gentry. "The position a class reaches due to its own leadership becomes the new starting point for those who wish to weaken its position further," he noted with most chilling and disturbing accuracy. This position may still be reversed if the tourism industry, supported by others, takes the leadership into its own hands and have Tralee-KillarneyCastleisland declared as a linked Kerry Gateway.

Mossie Carey DipEnvDev is Environmental Manager with MF Quirke and Sons. All opinion expressed here are his own.

The biggest pile of rubbish I ever read!

http://www.kerryman.ie/lifestyle/kerry-x2013-not-in-the-corridor-1887363.html

benralph

chewed wrote: »

Can the M3 be considered to be in Dublin since it only begins after Clonee, in Co. Meath?

Mayo remains the only county in connaght not to have a dual carriageway/motorway! but when the N17 tuam-claremorris road is replaced, its possible the M17 may be extended north as far as the claremorris bypass. resulting in mayo having a motorway! to be fair mayo doesn't deserve a motorway going on traffic volumes compared to other counties.