Martin Ferris in the Irish Times

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 4:22pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes I think Shinners will say that this happened when there was a war going on and as such, the three cannot be abandoned. But in terms of choreography it was very badly staged. To my mind though, this party needs to state here and now that they have put their past behind them and that they are now prepared to become part of the process. In saying this I think there is still a lot of stuff unresolved up north but they are seperate issues. I think that is core problem here. Sinn Fein were heralded for their part in Peace process but down here they are not seen as an all Ireland party.

They are part of the process. Where have you been for the last decade?

ei.sdraob · 06-08-2009 4:23pm

democracy for ya, here criminals get to form a political party :mad:

smokingman · 06-08-2009 4:24pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

What is their core support down here. Not that many I think. They are caught between the core vote up north and maybe a small vote down south.

From what I can see, you're spot on there - the Republic has never been a concern or anything important for them, just the UK.

oscarBravo · 06-08-2009 4:28pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

It was insensitive I think but I think we can move on.

Do you? If a TD collected a rapist from prison after he'd served his sentence, would you shrug and say "that was insensitive, but let's move on"?

Joey the lips wrote: »

Sinn feins policy of winning the electorate is not to please the many but please the few slowly and then get the many.

Thankfully there's a solid core of good citizens who are so repulsed at the idea of their elected representative being supporting of the murderers of gardaí that nothing would ever compel them to vote for them.

I know it suits you to pretend that this isn't the case, but: as long as tacitly condoning the murder of police officers is party policy, the party stays on the fringe. If they want to go mainstream, they'll have to distance themselves from the murderers.

Martin ferris will not be judged the way you imagine. The sad thing is there is no one like him in my area.

Martin Ferris is judged the way I imagine; just not by you and the minority who think they way you do. Thankfully there's no one like him in my area.

Spiritoftheseventies · 06-08-2009 4:28pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

They are part of the process. Where have you been for the last decade?

They are not fully part of the political process while they have ties with their millitary wing.

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 4:29pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's a stark choice for them: alienate the core support, or alienate the mainstream electorate. So far, it seems the core supporters are more important to them - which is fair enough, but it's why they'll stay a fringe party for a long time.

Funny the criticism coming from a lot of republicans is that they have abandoned their core and are desperately trying to court the middle class vote. I think the reality is somewhere in between the two. Personally i'd rather they stayed a fringe party true to their core values of an equal and fair society and jumped on issues like the Shell2Sea throwaway of our resources and fighting for workers rights like the Thomas Cook affair rather than try to be a populist all things to all people party.

mike65 · 06-08-2009 4:31pm

This has been discssed a few times, SF will never be more than what they currently are unless a few fundamental moves are made, like ditching the Nordie leadership and learning thier "How Free-Staters Think 101". I dunno if their top brass monitor the likes of boards.ie for opinion but they they do (waves) they can't be too encouraged.

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 4:35pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

democracy for ya, here criminals get to form a political party :mad:

Fianna Fáil are some cowboys alright.

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 4:37pm

mike65 wrote: »

This has been discssed a few times, SF will never be more than what they currently are unless a few fundamental moves are made, like ditching the Nordie leadership and learning thier "How Free-Staters Think 101". I dunno if their top brass monitor the likes of boards.ie for opinion but they they do (waves) they can't be too encouraged.

Yes i'm sure the top brass spend their day reading boards, After Hours in particular would be hugely beneficial to them.

Spiritoftheseventies · 06-08-2009 4:40pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Do you? If a TD collected a rapist from prison after he'd served his sentence, would you shrug and say "that was insensitive, but let's move on"?

Thankfully there's a solid core of good citizens who are so repulsed at the idea of their elected representative being supporting of the murderers of gardaí that nothing would ever compel them to vote for them.

I know it suits you to pretend that this isn't the case, but: as long as tacitly condoning the murder of police officers is party policy, the party stays on the fringe. If they want to go mainstream, they'll have to distance themselves from the murderers. Martin Ferris is judged the way I imagine; just not by you and the minority who think they way you do. Thankfully there's no one like him in my area.

Well there was a TD who petitioned for the release of a Drink Driver who killed someone and it was well publicised. And also the case of a high ranking SF member who carried the coffin of a member of its army wing after said member had carried out an atrocity. Again it was well publicised so dont need to name names.. We have to accept that things like these are going to happen. What do we do. Do we totally isolate the shinners who we negotiated with to secure a peace process up north?

smokingman · 06-08-2009 4:42pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

Is that another daft question or just a general comment! We are not 2 year olds folks clearly ferris met him because he supports them. I am still lost here. Something new would be nice! Big brother has more apeal than this!

It was an honest question, if the killers were acting on their own, even given that they were members of the ira which would've been irrelavent without a sanction to do it in the first place, why fight for them when inside and why meet up with them on their way out?

I am genuinely curious to figure that out....the sceptic in me would guess that it was actually sanctioned but plausible deniability kicked in..I'm trying to think otherwise though and any suggestions or explanations are very welcome on this one.

waryeye · 06-08-2009 4:42pm

As I was busy addressing the issue of Martin Ferris etc on another thread I missed most of the above debate but I will again restate my central point. It was entirely understandable and consistent of Ferris to greet those prisoners.

They, like him, were comrades in a movement over the long years of the war/armed struggle/troubles in the north, whatever you guys want to call it.

Though the IRA at the time did not sanction that operation in Limerick and Sinn Fein condemned it, Ferris was not the type to walk away and deny them. For that I would say he is admired by most Republicans. That is not to say most Republicans agreed with Jerry McCabe's death. They did not.

Again, let the people of North Kerry be the judges in the next election. Then we will see where the truth lies. Not that most of you people will like it.

All your resorting to generalisations and scumbags blah blah won't change the facts of the matter. And why people like those guys joined the IRA in the first place. It was entirely understandable that people in the North, lilke McAuley, during that tumultuous period joined the IRA and anyone who doesn't realise that at this stage must have their heads stuck in the sand for the last 40 years.
Enough of this po-faced nonsense from people who have no idea what they are posting about.

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 4:43pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

They are not fully part of the political process while they have ties with their millitary wing.

Says who?

The have elected reps at all levels. The have elected reps in 31 of the 32 counties. The are in Govt in the north. They have come on board in supporting the institutions in the north, a new phenomenon.

Spiritoftheseventies · 06-08-2009 4:53pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Says who?

The have elected reps at all levels. The have elected reps in 31 of the 32 counties. The are in Govt in the north. They have come on board in supporting the institutions in the north, a new phenomenon.

Yes they have elected representatives on the councils but hardly any in Dail Eireann. And yes they are in Govt in the North but people down here dont think they represent them in same way.

ei.sdraob · 06-08-2009 4:55pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Fianna Fáil are some cowboys alright.

theres a difference between robbers (FF and property/banking cartels) and murderers (SF and their mafia like ops)

06-08-2009 5:57pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Fianna Fáil are some cowboys alright.

Even amongst crooks and conmen there is a hierarchy, and taking lives trumps taking bribes every time.

As for severing ties, is Ferris still part of the Army Council *

* and please don't come up with that 'prove it' defence, like the worst FF apologist. I will put up my hands now and admit it's not exactly set out in the IRA's annual returns to the Companies Office.

Spiritoftheseventies · 06-08-2009 6:13pm

waryeye wrote: »

As I was busy addressing the issue of Martin Ferris etc on another thread I missed most of the above debate but I will again restate my central point. It was entirely understandable and consistent of Ferris to greet those prisoners.

They, like him, were comrades in a movement over the long years of the war/armed struggle/troubles in the north, whatever you guys want to call it.

Though the IRA at the time did not sanction that operation in Limerick and Sinn Fein condemned it, Ferris was not the type to walk away and deny them. For that I would say he is admired by most Republicans. That is not to say most Republicans agreed with Jerry McCabe's death. They did not.

Again, let the people of North Kerry be the judges in the next election. Then we will see where the truth lies. Not that most of you people will like it.

All your resorting to generalisations and scumbags blah blah won't change the facts of the matter. And why people like those guys joined the IRA in the first place. It was entirely understandable that people in the North, lilke McAuley, during that tumultuous period joined the IRA and anyone who doesn't realise that at this stage must have their heads stuck in the sand for the last 40 years.
Enough of this po-faced nonsense from people who have no idea what they are posting about.

Some valid points there. Did McCauley recognise the Gardai Siochana in the way we did as defenders of this state.. Probably not. Did it justify what he did and his accomplices. Would say not. Should Shinners be surprised by reaction to one of their members being pictured with armed gang. No. Let the people of Kerry decide by all means but if they want to be taken seriously down here now is the time to put this stuff behind them. Which may seem as a bit of a contradiction given what i have said in previous states but i say it because Sinn Fein who tie themselves very much to the 1916 proclamation believe that they are the last party that truly espouses its principles mainly that of self determination.
You look at it the principle of a thirty two county state which many sought and fought for is still along way.
Sinn Fein's problem down here is that the 26 counties down here have been pretty much happy with their lot and as such just do not adhere as much to their principles.

waryeye · 06-08-2009 6:14pm

Conor74 what part of the end of the war in the north do u not understand? It's over time to move on. Even Jerry McCabe's wife says it's time to time to let it go. You are like that bunch of journos in the Sunday Indo who have nothing to write about if they are not flaying Sinn Fein for all its 'sins'.
One would think you had more to be worried about with this part of the country crashing all around you thanks to the FF mafia who have destroyed the economy. Wake up and smell the coffee!:cool:

Spiritoftheseventies · 06-08-2009 6:23pm

waryeye wrote: »

Conor74 what part of the end of the war in the north do u not understand? It's over time to move on. Even Jerry McCabe's wife says it's time to time to let it go. You are like that bunch of journos in the Sunday Indo who have nothing to write about if they are not flaying Sinn Fein for all its 'sins'.
One would think you had more to be worried about with this part of the country crashing all around you thanks to the FF mafia who have destroyed the economy. Wake up and smell the coffee!:cool:

Is the war over. the guns have been laid down which is good but i think an awful lot needs to be done specially with regards to parades commission and all that.
Would like to extend this converation to any posters up north but can more be done to achieve a more level playing field.
I was up there last year and i have to say its a bit unnerving to go through a town with the flag of another country all over the place.
Still think its like being in another place when you cross over into some areas. Plenty done but a lot more to be done also.

ei.sdraob · 06-08-2009 6:26pm

waryeye wrote: »

Conor74 what part of the end of the war in the north do u not understand? It's over time to move on. Even Jerry McCabe's wife says it's time to time to let it go. You are like that bunch of journos in the Sunday Indo who have nothing to write about if they are not flaying Sinn Fein for all its 'sins'.
One would think you had more to be worried about with this part of the country crashing all around you thanks to the FF mafia who have destroyed the economy. Wake up and smell the coffee!:cool:

I never imagined I would have to defend FF :rolleyes:

but

am I the only one who is getting sick of the new tactic that SF use (and used during elections a short while ago)

when confronted with a question that they could not answer they would point finger at FF and say "but FF are worse! dey destroyed da economah!"

Libertas employed similar maneuver btw in order to avoid tough questions (and this was seen on RTE numerous times)

and for the second time

we all know that FF are robbing scumbags but they are not murderers

there is a difference

Liam Byrne · 06-08-2009 6:43pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

....their core values of an equal and fair society.....

....as long as you're not a Garda doing his job, in which case you're not equal and they feel they can shoot you in the back.

Or are you suggesting that we're all equal targets once their members decide to loot and murder ?

Erin Go Brath · 06-08-2009 6:52pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

....as long as you're not a Garda doing his job, in which case you're not equal and they feel they can shoot you in the back.

Or are you suggesting that we're all equal targets once their members decide to loot and murder ?

Jeez such a drama queen!

That was years ago in 96. Let it go, the lads have served their debt to society. If Garda McCabes wife can move on, i'm sure you can if you try.

Het-Field · 06-08-2009 6:54pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Jeez such a drama queen!

That was years ago in 96. Let it go, the lads have served their debt to society. If Garda McCabes wife can move on, i'm sure you can if you try.

How the hell you know she has moved on ? Public words are hollow. Your arrogance has no bounds.

Liam Byrne · 06-08-2009 7:01pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Jeez such a drama queen!

That was years ago in 96. Let it go, the lads have served their debt to society. If Garda McCabes wife can move on, i'm sure you can if you try.

Call me what you like (and at least "drama queen" is better than the usual "West Brit", although I'm told it usually involves breaking a nail or a heel rather than a murder).

You suggested that SF wanted a "society of equals". I just pointed out (no drama, no hype) that it's difficult to believe that if they shoot some and not others.

But maybe I misinterpreted; maybe the "society of equals" just means that if I run around a country village with an AK47 and shoot someone in cold blood, Ferris will come get photo taken with me, and pick me up in 24 years time, too ?

And - for the record - the shooting might have been "years ago in 96", but the reason there's a thread here is that Ferris showed YESTERDAY that he was OK with it.

Het-Field · 06-08-2009 7:04pm

How can they look for a society of anything politically ? Remember when Michael McDowell turned Adams into a bumbling fool on the Junior Leaders debate in 2007 ?

I know McDowell is gone, and lost an election that a man in his position shouldnt have lost. But he exposed Adams and the Shinners as political nitwits

oscarBravo · 06-08-2009 7:07pm

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

...the lads have served their debt to society.

Served their debt? Ten years in cushy accommodation in Castlerea?

Not even close.

ei.sdraob · 06-08-2009 7:11pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Served their debt? Ten years in cushy accommodation in Castlerea?

Not even close.

I agree must have cost well over a million € to keep each one of the in prison for that time

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1220/1229725700591.html

bogs · 06-08-2009 7:15pm

Ithink its a new low for Martin Ferris to meet these murderers on their release.

Liam Byrne · 06-08-2009 7:18pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Served their debt? Ten years in cushy accommodation in Castlerea?

Not even close.

Actually (even though this is probably more on topic in the "murderers released" thread rather than here) oscarBravo's post has made me wonder something.

If a child-molester is in jail, there are attempts at "rehabilitation" so that he's not a threat to society on release.

If someone has a history of knife crime or violence, then likewise.

What programme or treatment did these scum have to go through (aside from living in houses that the homeless would die for, strolling in and out as they wished, ordering Chinese & pizza)....?

Bren1609 · 06-08-2009 7:20pm

The actions of Ferris today just highlight the reasons why SF will never form part of mainstream Irish politics. They are a single issue party that have been running on the same ticket for years.

Martin Ferris in the Irish Times

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