PI on Twitter

DeVore

This is ridiculous on several levels.

Firstly, this is the first I've heard of it. This is not an official project. (I think twitter is fairly innocuous but also fairly idiotic personally).

Secondly, the idea of deleteing threads if they show up in that list is absolutely NOT the way to go about things. I'm pretty shocked about that.

Thirdly, we cant stop someone doing this as long as we leave anything RI/PI in the RSS feed of the most popular (read: active) SO the discussion is, do we leave them on the front page? In the RSS?
Do we disable the RSS feed of PI/RI now? (because given this ridiculous and might I say, completely avoidable storm in a tea cup, someone is going to do this independantly now if we leave it there).

I'll talk to the admins about this, we'll talk to the office back and forth and I'll leave this thread here for you guys to all talk to us but I'm not in the slightest bit happy about a lot of this so, I highly recommend bringing your "constructive" game-face or just calling in sick on this one.

DeV.

Nerin

@Dev, is it possible to make PI invisible to people based on postcount or something?

The main thing i'm seeing in the thread is people worried about who views it.
I'm not offering a solution,but maybe we could kick about ideas of actually making it semiprivate instead of public as it is.
Downside of that is you won't be able to read advice if youre a lurker...
I dunno,this is all very confusing,but maybe talk about ideas to change the format?

Conor

Nerin wrote: »

@Dev, is it possible to make PI invisible to people based on postcount or something?

Currently, no. At least not without a few very dirty hacks.

Also, it would have the effect of making it invisible to the unregged posters which would make it very difficult for them to post.

ntlbell

Nerin wrote: »

@Dev, is it possible to make PI invisible to people based on postcount or something?

how would the anonymous accounts that create threads see them?

e.g. that have no post count

Jonathan

shellyboo wrote: »

Perhaps it will lead to someone being identified when they didn't want to be - perhaps that person wouldn't have posted to begin with if they knew the thread could be going out on Twitter.

Surely they shouldn't be posting on the internet so. Once you post something on the internet, it is on forever really in one form or another.


I don't get why twitter is the big bad enemy in this thread.

If anything, it should be google. I just did a quick search for two keywords, twitter and boards and this thread is the second result, with the twitter feed first.
Another quick search and you can find all the threads you want on a certain issue. Oh look. The number one result is a thread that is currently on the front page of PI.

The twitter feed is basically the same as front page of boards. For those that use twitter, it is easier to have the interesting threads pushed to you, rather than pulled by you from the front page.

The Recliner

Conor wrote: »

Currently, no. At least not without a few very dirty hacks.

Also, it would have the effect of making it invisible to the unregged posters which would make it very difficult for them to post.

Would it be possible to make the forum public/private so that it can be seen by unreg people and members on Boards but not picked up by Google etc like other private forums?

It would help protect people's privacy and problems which is I think what kicked off this whole thing in the first place

ntlbell

see this is why we need the head off wall smiley.

shame of the dev's not adding it.

tbh

Pimpey wrote: »

Would it be possible to make the forum public/private so that it can be seen by unreg people and members on Boards but not picked up by Google etc like other private forums?

It would help protect people's privacy and problems which is I think what kicked off this whole thing in the first place

being honest, you might as well make PI invite only. The whole point of PI is to expose problems to a larger audience, imo.

ntlbell

tbh wrote: »

being honest, you might as well make PI invite only. The whole point of PI is to expose problems to a larger audience, imo.

in fact the problem being circulated on twitter might lead the OP to getting a better answer than "join a club" "you poor thing hugs" and lead to some real solutions and not the tripe that currently gets posted there.

I'm all for it.

Wibbs

Nerin wrote: »

Wibbs,its hardly daft,and i think pi mods/(former mod in your case)

Still am a mod there.

aren't helping the discussion with what appears to be angry or forceful statements.

Oh I agree, we should keep it civil and can't see why it shouldn't be.

How is it daft? I wouldn't have bothered thinking about pi at all until shell brought up the thread.

What's daft or inconsistent is that on the one hand and among other things PI is not searchable, allows anon posting and is heavily modded. It already has quite a number of "special" features attached compared to other forums. It's straddling between being both a private and public forum. By it's very nature it has to be a little of both. It obviously can't be fully private as that would be pointless, and it would equally be pointless if it was fully public and anon posts weren't allowed. A balance should be struck. The twitter issue is just part of that balance and I can see why people and not just the mods of the forum see this as both an inconsistency and possibly worrying development. I don't use twitter, like Devore, it's not my bag and have no use for it, but others do and I think PI should be left out of it. For any number of reasons previously expressed. Simply put I can see more disadvantages than advantages to adding it to twitter. Of course we can't protect anon posters completely, but the fact that people feel they need to post anon IMHO means we should minimise the risks for them.

Its not some uber important forum,its as important as any forum.

I certainly never said it was, but it is a special case forum no matter which way you look at it.

Theres a nasty sense of throwing toys out of the pram and making this a bigger issue than it is,and that stinks.

I think people are riled up because of the aforementioned inconsistency and maybe because it was sprung on them. In much the same way if a private forum was twittered. You can say that it's not a private forum, but as I say if it's not somewhat private why have anon posting at all.

Edit-and its not semi private,or special or anything. Its a public forum.

Look I can go back and forth here, but objectively it is a special case forum. The question is how special case should it be to protect the users of the forum and their anonymity. Twitter subtracts from that. I certainly can't see how it adds to it.

OK if it was just me personally? I would say the same of RSS feeds too and inclusion in google too tbh. Of course I'm mindful that this may lose some who may not even find it on the site. As I say a balance and a discussion on that balance is needed, regardless and twittergate seems like as good a place as any to start.

tbh

ntlbell wrote: »

in fact the problem being circulated on twitter might lead the OP to getting a better answer than "join a club" "you poor thing hugs" and lead to some real solutions and not the tripe that currently gets posted there.

I'm all for it.

I just said the same thing on another thread about LTI. I've not discussed with my LTI co-mods, but basically, I want twitterers to know that a resource for diabetics etc exists on boards.ie LTI, and I want the people who post in LTI to be exposed to as wide a potentially helpful audience as possible. If there are any messers coming to LTI as a result, we'll just ban 'em.

lets face it, the majority of followers of the boards account already post on boards, and no-one reads the public timeline. If they do, and it becomes a problem, then we'll re-visit, but I'd like to at least give it a chance. (for LTI, that is)

DeVore

Like Monkeyfudge, I'm not wild about us including PI/RI in the "most popular" feed... accessibility is one thing, promotion is another. My face can be seen from anywhere in public that I am, but I'd be annoyed if someone followed me around all day every day with a camera beaming it to the world. The point being that promotion/distribution does alter things even when it doesnt alter the basic accessiblity of that information.

The only real solution I can see is to remove any RSS-ability of PI/RI. Remove its RSS feed, remove it from the "hot" threads RSS.

What do we do if someone scripts a scraper for the actual forum itself?



Is this actually an issue because the account is called Board_Top? Or would anyone doing it, have caused this "concern"?

DeV.

Wibbs

Jonathan wrote: »

Surely they shouldn't be posting on the internet so. Once you post something on the internet, it is on forever really in one form or another.

I take your point fully and I agree to a degree anyway. IMHO there is a tendency to a bit much of a black and white approach to the internet and privacy. One one side the "all information is free and should be disseminated pushed/pulled" and the other "it should be private and people should be protected". I think the debate should live in the grey area. The tools are there to make the internet as public or private as required and just because a tool exists it doesn't follow it should be used, or used in a blanket fashion. I think if people feel the need to post anon then the onus is to minimise any compromise of that anonymity.

Conor

Pimpey wrote: »

Would it be possible to make the forum public/private so that it can be seen by unreg people and members on Boards but not picked up by Google etc like other private forums?

Yes, but that would have serious implications for the ability of non-boardsies to find the forum and use it for its intended use.

Personally, I don't think that's a sensible option.

ntlbell

DeVore wrote: »

Like Monkeyfudge, I'm not wild about us including PI/RI in the "most popular" feed... accessibility is one thing, promotion is another. My face can be seen from anywhere in public that I am, but I'd be annoyed if someone followed me around all day every day with a camera beaming it to the world. The point being that promotion/distribution does alter things even when it doesnt alter the basic accessiblity of that information.

The only real solution I can see is to remove any RSS-ability of PI/RI. Remove its RSS feed, remove it from the "hot" threads RSS.

What do we do if someone scripts a scraper for the actual forum itself?



Is this actually an issue because the account is called Board_Top? Or would anyone doing it, have caused this "concern"?

DeV.

that's a really stupid comparison.

The person is reaching out for an answer to a problem/issue.

the more people that see the problem/issue the more feedback you will get on that problem/issue the more chance of it being "solved"

comparing it to paparazzi chasing you around taken your picture is just ridiculous.

by posting it on a public forum that can be accessed by anyone in the world IS beaming it to the world.

The whole thing is absolute nonsensical

"I have a problem I want the world to know but only want you,you and you to help me even tho you have no idea who I am"

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

I think if people feel the need to post anon then the onus is to minimise any compromise of that anonymity.

So posting on the most popular forum on Ireland and probably elsewhere

giving detailed information about their life circumstances

on a public forum that can be viewed world wide.

how the f*ck do you "minimize" the anonymity?

and how the f*ck does streaming it to a few more folk who are FOLLOWING the board user on twitter anyway so is more than likely a broadsie compromise it anymore?

I think there's a huge problem here with people fully grasping the technologies and a general understanding of the internet in general

Ludo

I have only looked reading PI on the very odd occassion out of curiosity so I am coming at this from an outsiders point of view so feel free to disregard.

The whole concept of PI seems to be taken way too seriously I believe. I can fully understand why it needs to be moderated so heavily and this is correct. But in fairness, this is the internet. Not a counsellors/psychiatrists office or even the Samaritans.

Sure I can see the benefit of it as a place where someone can come and get some possibly helpful ideas on how to deal with a situation and possibly some support but from reading this thread you would think the forum is a confidential professional counselling service. It most certainly is not and should in no way be treated as such which some people seem to be doing. No-one there has proper training and anyone can post thoughts on a topic. Posters have no idea if the advice is coming from any sort of qualification ot trustworthy source.

If it is public on boards then I can't see why it is treated differently to any other forum (other than it being a troll magnet so heavy modding required).

From reading this thread, the best post I saw was from Tallaght01. It appears to be taken so seriously that it could actually be considered dangerous if a niaive person thinks they are posting anonymously and confidentially.

ntlbell

Ludo wrote: »

From reading this thread, the best post I saw was from Tallaght01. It appears to be taken so seriously that it could actually be considered dangerous if a niaive person thinks they are posting anonymously and confidentially.

I brought this issue up before on feedback threads and was shot down.

Wibbs

DeVore wrote: »

Like Monkeyfudge, I'm not wild about us including PI/RI in the "most popular" feed... accessibility is one thing, promotion is another.

Nail on the head and sums up my take perfectly. It's striking that balance is the thing. Twitter itself is just the current focus of this, but maybe have something of a consistent approach to the forum, so that if some super twitter comes along the mechanism is in place to deal with it kinda thing?

tbh

ntlbell wrote: »

So posting on the most popular forum on Ireland and probably elsewhere

giving detailed information about their life circumstances

on a public forum that can be viewed world wide.

how the f*ck do you "minimize" the anonymity?

I'd like to think I'd have phrased it a little differently , but I agree. The information is out there. There's always going to be a risk that someone will suss who the OP is. Putting PI threads on twitter increases that by a small degree, but would probably increase the odds of getting a helpful reply by the same margin.

Have the PI mods noticed any more traffic, in particular from unregg'd or new users in PI since this has started? I think it's been around a couple of weeks now.

Wibbs

ntlbell wrote: »

So posting on the most popular forum on Ireland and probably elsewhere

giving detailed information about their life circumstances

on a public forum that can be viewed world wide.

how the f*ck do you "minimize" the anonymity?

and how the f*ck does streaming it to a few more folk who are FOLLOWING the board user on twitter anyway so is more than likely a broadsie compromise it anymore?

I think there's a huge problem here with people fully grasping the technologies and a general understanding of the internet in general

A good example of one side of the black and white debate on privacy and information on the internet. If you can't comprehend how one can take steps to minimise anonymity then I doubt I nor anyone else can explain it to you. The simple fact that anon posts are allowed in PI whose IP's are not shared with the general population(or even the mods of PI) proves one can.

Plus I suspect you were shot down in the past, less for your opinion, but for the fact you're permabanned from the forum in question, so the irony was not lost on some.

Wibbs

tbh wrote: »

Have the PI mods noticed any more traffic, in particular from unregg'd or new users in PI since this has started? I think it's been around a couple of weeks now.

Yes but unregged PI traffic, muppet traffic and traffic in general ebbs and flows, so I don't think that would be within sniffing distance of linking it to twitter TBH. Basically too hard to call any link at the moment. Maybe the techie lads could behind the scenes?

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

A good example of one side of the black and white debate on privacy and information on the internet. If you can't comprehend how one can take steps to minimise anonymity then I doubt I nor anyone else can explain it to you. The simple fact that anon posts are allowed in PI whose IP's are not shared with the general population(or even the mods of PI) proves one can.

Plus I suspect you were shot down in the past, less for your opinion, but for the fact you're permabanned from the forum in question, so the irony was not lost on some.

My livelihood is making sure things stay private on the internet so you can do me a favor and not delve out any lecture's.

The point was on what's all ready been done on the forum.

hiding an IP address doesn't stop being identified by the content and this what this discussion is about is content and the publication of the content.

the content is ALL READY available on a global scale, adding a stream to people who are ALL READY following the boards user on twitter isn't really doing anymore "damage" in fact in the case of PI it's probably going to AID the poster not hinder them.

The fact that I'm banned from a forum or not should have no baring on my opinions in a case like this they're as valid as anyone else's.

Only a petty moron which I assume you're not would do such a thing

tbh

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes but unregged PI traffic, muppet traffic and traffic in general ebbs and flows, so I don't think that would be within sniffing distance of linking it to twitter TBH. Basically too hard to call any link at the moment. Maybe the techie lads could behind the scenes?

yeah fair enough, then this debate is about what could happen, rather than anything concrete that's happening already. (not that that makes it any more or less relevant of course)

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes but unregged PI traffic, muppet traffic and traffic in general ebbs and flows, so I don't think that would be within sniffing distance of linking it to twitter TBH. Basically too hard to call any link at the moment. Maybe the techie lads could behind the scenes?

Then to add to the stupidity of the whole thing.

We have this storm in a tea cup and by the sounds of it the PI mods never even bothered their arses to get some data to see if it was making increasing the traffic to the forum

christ all mighty.

:rolleyes:

Wibbs

ntlbell wrote: »

My livelihood is making sure things stay private on the internet so you can do me a favor and not delve out any lecture's.

The point was on what's all ready been done on the forum.

hiding an IP address doesn't stop being identified by the content and this what this discussion is about is content and the publication of the content.

the content is ALL READY available on a global scale, adding a stream to people who are ALL READY following the boards user on twitter isn't really doing anymore "damage" in fact in the case of PI it's probably going to AID the poster not hinder them.

I agree, the content is already available, if one looks for it. As DeVore said it's whether it should be promoted or not. The content is part of the user, just like the IP address or their user name. If all three are present it's easy to see who it is. If two are removed it's less so. It's all information, just in a sliding scale. If there is a sliding scale then the privacy attached to that content is also a sliding scale.

The fact that I'm banned from a forum or not should have no baring on my opinions in a case like this they're as valid as anyone else's.

Only a petty moron which I assume you're not would do such a thing

Well at least you've learned not to directly call someone a petty moron while actually doing so.

While your opinion is valid, you will excuse me if I give it a lot less weight given the number of permanbans you've racked up all across this site on multiple forums for various consistent reasons, not just in the forums in question.

Conor

ntlbell wrote: »

We have this storm in a tea cup and by the sounds of it the PI mods never even bothered their arses to get some data to see if it was making increasing the traffic to the forum

They don't have access to that sort of data.

ntlbell

Conor wrote: »

They don't have access to that sort of data.

they can ask for it!

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree, the content is already available, if one looks for it. As DeVore said it's whether it should be promoted or not. The content is part of the user, just like the IP address or their user name. If all three are present it's easy to see who it is. If two are removed it's less so. It's all information, just in a sliding scale. If there is a sliding scale then the privacy attached to that content is also a sliding scale.

with twitter your pushing the content who have CHOSEN to follow the boards twitter account, it's getting pushed/aimed at the same user base but will probably be seen by boards users who don't look at PI

how is that any different from someone subscribing to the public RSS feed?

Wibbs wrote: »

Well at least you've learned not to directly call someone a petty moron while actually doing so.

Perma bans will do that.

Wibbs wrote: »

While your opinion is valid, you will excuse me if I give it a lot less weight given the number of permanbans you've racked up all across this site on multiple forums for various consistent reasons, not just in the forums in question.

Again wtf has my bans got to do with the topic at hand?

If I had a vested interest in the forum I could see your point, but them being tweeted doesn't change anything for me one way or another.