PI on Twitter

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is now an annoucement gone up in PI/RI stating that if a thread is missing to contact a mod for clarificaton.

I would have though you'd have pm'd them first asking them if they thought it was an issue?

The Recliner

DeVore wrote: »

Like Monkeyfudge, I'm not wild about us including PI/RI in the "most popular" feed... accessibility is one thing, promotion is another.

I think this is the crux of the issue to be honest, the info is out there for people who look for it already, there is no need to be pushing it on people

The only real solution I can see is to remove any RSS-ability of PI/RI. Remove its RSS feed, remove it from the "hot" threads RSS.

Personally I think this is a good idea

What do we do if someone scripts a scraper for the actual forum itself?

Maybe use this situation to come up with a policy and then deal with any further situations as they arise

Is this actually an issue because the account is called Board_Top? Or would anyone doing it, have caused this "concern"?

DeV.

I think this came to light because the name of the account led to it being found, I think the concern would be the same no matter who was doing it, just that there might be something we can do to prevent it here

Conor wrote: »

Yes, but that would have serious implications for the ability of non-boardsies to find the forum and use it for its intended use.

Personally, I don't think that's a sensible option.

My first responsibility is to look out for the people who use PI, people will find boards one way or another and if they find Boards they will find PI and other forums

ntlbell wrote: »

with twitter your pushing the content who have CHOSEN to follow the boards twitter account, it's getting pushed/aimed at the same user base but will probably be seen by boards users who don't look at PI

how is that any different from someone subscribing to the public RSS feed?

As above I think PI should be taken out of the RSS feeds, I don't think PI should or needs to be pushed or publicised to people

K-9 wrote: »

I would have though you'd have pm'd them first asking them if they thought it was an issue?

I haven't checked but I would guess that some of the threads were started by Unreg posters and we cannot contact them, also there seems to have been an increase in people contacting us asking us to delete threads (might be coincidental)

Sherifu

tallaght01 wrote: »

Again, I know it's not the populist view, but there are far bigger ethical and moral issues with opening up vulnerable people with serious problems to a gaggle of untrained and unvetted "advisors" on boards, than there is with a link going up in twitter, in my opinion.

+1,000,000

Posting on the internet is probably the last thing i'd do for a personal problem.

K-9

Pimpey wrote: »

I haven't checked but I would guess that some of the threads were started by Unreg posters and we cannot contact them, also there seems to have been an increase in people contacting us asking us to delete threads (might be coincidental)

Ah right, didn't know that about Unreg posters.

On the deleting, it could be any reason. I'd say the recent Facebook issues over privacy may have just as much to do with that.

Anyway, just think deleting threads was an over reaction.

tbh

Pimpey wrote: »

My first responsibility is to look out for the people who use PI, people will find boards one way or another and if they find Boards they will find PI and other forums

I totally get that, but how do you define "Looking out"? If it's to protect privacy, the best thing you can do is tell them not to post at all. But if they do want to post, surely it should be to as wide an audience as possible?

The Recliner

Sherifu wrote: »

+1,000,000

Posting on the internet is probably the last thing i'd do for a personal problem.

Fair enough but others want to post so why shouldn't we give them a place to post and allow them to do so with the aim that they get the least amount of trolling and unhelpful posting as possible?

tbh wrote: »

I totally get that, but how do you define "Looking out"? If it's to protect privacy, the best thing you can do is tell them not to post at all. But if they do want to post, surely it should be to as wide an audience as possible?

It is a difficult thing to define alright but I would look at it as trying to allow people to post and get as much helpful advice as possible whilst trying to minimise the ways in which they can be held up for ridicule and abuse
As was mentioned earlier it is about trying to find the right balance, I am not entirely sure how this can be achieved but I am fairly sure it isn't quite right yet but I don't think "Promoting" PI threads is the way to go

tbh

Pimpey wrote: »

It is a difficult thing to define alright but I would look at it as trying to allow people to post and get as much helpful advice as possible whilst trying to minimise the ways in which they can be held up for ridicule and abuse
As was mentioned earlier it is about trying to find the right balance, I am not entirely sure how this can be achieved but I am fairly sure it isn't quite right yet but I don't think "Promoting" PI threads is the way to go

cool yeah I understand where you're coming from. My own opinion would be that the twitter feed will have very little impact overall on PI, and of the overall impact, very little of that would be negative. So you risk blocking a particularly healthy move on the off-chance that it will create a small amount of hassle, the same hassle that could be generated by anyone on boards reading the thread. If it were a case that you could say "since this started, we've had loads of new signups taking the pee" then I'd understand it a bit better.

at the end of the day tho, PI is such a valuable resource that anything that pisses off the people who moderate it is a bad deal imo, so if ye all feel it's a bad idea, it's no huge loss to remove it.

Wibbs

Sherifu wrote: »

+1,000,000

Posting on the internet is probably the last thing i'd do for a personal problem.

Oh I agree, many wouldn't but many would. People differ. Pimpey puts it better. Plus the tallaght01 angle doesn't really wash with me. I see the point alright, but I also see the point that many will not approach a professional or even consider going to a professional in the first place. They may reckon they've an issue, but its not that "serious". If peers tell them it is and they are pointed to a professional(which they are in 99% of those cases) then I know many have sought help, where otherwise they wouldn't. Plus of course the notion of a problem shared is a problem halved is there too.

A far bigger issue than any PI style forum on the internet is often the lack of facilities to seek professional help, even the quality of that professional help and the stigma associated with any mental illness in this country. As for the ones who may slip through the net. Yes that happens and it happens with the best will in the world. It happens with the professionals too.

ntlbell wrote:

they can ask for it!

In a situation like this we could ask. The same if we need an IP check on a potential muppet, but generally we don't. It's not our remit. Again from a privacy angle for posters.

with twitter your pushing the content who have CHOSEN to follow the boards twitter account, it's getting pushed/aimed at the same user base but will probably be seen by boards users who don't look at PI

how is that any different from someone subscribing to the public RSS feed?

I agree, but then again I wouldn't have PI as part of the RSS feed either.

Again wtf has my bans got to do with the topic at hand?

If I had a vested interest in the forum I could see your point, but them being tweeted doesn't change anything for me one way or another.

Because if someone has racked up that many bans from all over the site for various troublemaking reasons, I simply don't give their opinions as much weight. The suspicion remains that they're just shít stirring for the sake of it as their history suggests. Some of your comments here go some way to bolstering that view.

tbh

or, as my old man would say, if you fling shit around all day, don't get offended when someone refuses your chocolate

Rb

Darragh wrote: »

Also up for discussion is how this sort of thing should be brought to us (the people who make decisions on things like this) in future and how it will be dealt with and where.

Is feedback not sufficient?

I should hope these type issues don't go down the same route as issues with moderation i.e shoved into a forum where only admins and the person involved can reply.

ntlbell

tbh wrote: »

or, as my old man would say, if you fling shit around all day, don't get offended when someone refuses your chocolate

I'm not offended at all I just expect a man of wibb's caliber to be able to tell the difference between fine Belgian and a dunnes panky bar.

DeVore

We've always taken input from the community on community issues, even with ones such as this.


However, this has been ridiculously theatrically handled and has made things CONSIDERABLY WORSE as a result. Theres a thing called tact but it would appear to have been sacraficed on the altar of "moral outrage".

Example? we now have http://twitter.com/irishissues which is twittering all PI threads specifically. GG shots, plyd all.

I'm taking the decision to cease inclusion of PI/RI threads in the "hot" list on the front page, that RSS feed and ceasing the RSS feed of those forums.

Now, you might say people can still do all sorts of things to replicate those functions and yes, they can and maybe they will. But I have always taken the view that I can only control what I do and maintain a contentment within myself for my actions. ie: yeah, someone else can do but I dont have to make it easy for them.

I'm not comfortable with Boards including threads along the "my baby miscarried" lines as "hot" or "popular" simply because they have fallen into the top 20 of some statistic.

Deleting those threads is a WHOLE other issue which I'll deal with separately.

As usual, this thread has a limited life span for constructive feedback from now.

DeV.

Sully

So boards_top remains without the PI stuff, which is replaced with irishissues instead. The RSS has been removed for PI stuff also. What about the front page?

Sherifu

DeVore wrote: »

Example? we now have http://twitter.com/irishissues which is twittering all PI threads specifically. GG shots, plyd all.

Streisand effect is out in force today.

K-9

DeVore wrote: »

Deleting those threads is a WHOLE other issue which I'll deal with separately.

Good to hear that as it looked like a mod putting their own personal issue above users.

Winters

Sherifu wrote: »

+1,000,000

Posting on the internet is probably the last thing i'd do for a personal problem.

Unless you want that personal issue to be a HOT TOPIC!


I think Cult nailed the points on this earlier in the thread far too many times. What you post on PI is there for everyone to see, be it when you browse to the forum, read it on your rss feed, have it returned on a google result or spot it in a tweet. The fact that the way to access this thread has expanded now beyond the obvious first method should be encouraged as it will probably bring more options, support, advise to the circle jerk of pi. Its not doing anything to publicise it in any bad way, or to set it up as a bright light for trolls etc (I dont think you can get many more in there as it is).

PI can never be private, it can never be locked down. If someone goes unregistered it can still be possible to tell who it is by the way they post etc. and that has always been the case (unless they are smart enough to disguise it well). Guessing who it was that posted X thread in PI has always been a fun pasttime of IRC folk.

If you dont want your personal issue to be viewable on twitter, dont post it on the net on a public forum. I think the biggest issue may be the fact that someone's issue is being tagged with "HOT" or "POPULAR" making light of what could be a serious topic. But this is trivial issue, its not designed to remove any seriousness from an issue because of it gaining high traffic.

The idea of mod's deleting threads if they get cross posted across twitter or any other 3rd party service is childish and shows no respect for the original posters problems and who knows, a click from a link on twitter, another forum or sent via IRC/IM etc. could hold the answer to their problem.

Jerk on bitches.

Sherifu

Winters wrote: »

Unless you want that personal issue to be a HOT TOPIC!

Alternative humour forum tbh. Rock on.

tbh

K-9 wrote: »

Good to hear that as it looked like a mod putting their own personal issue above users.

hate to say it, but +1 to that.

Wibbs

DeVore wrote: »

I'm taking the decision to cease inclusion of PI/RI threads in the "hot" list on the front page, that RSS feed and ceasing the RSS feed of those forums.

Now, you might say people can still do all sorts of things to replicate those functions and yes, they can and maybe they will. But I have always taken the view that I can only control what I do and maintain a contentment within myself for my actions. ie: yeah, someone else can do but I dont have to make it easy for them.

I reckon that's a fair take on it all around and fair play.

I'm not comfortable with Boards including threads along the "my baby miscarried" lines as "hot" or "popular" simply because they have fallen into the top 20 of some statistic.

That was my concern too. Yes the stuff is there, but that doesn't always mean it should be pushed by a stats bot.

seamus

Rb wrote: »

Is feedback not sufficient?

I should hope these type issues don't go down the same route as issues with moderation i.e shoved into a forum where only admins and the person involved can reply.

Depends on the issue, surely? Where it's a bit of a no-brainer and where community feedback can only serve to stir up people's pisstaking glands and others' pissed off glands, why put it up for discussion?
This, for example, became a "BIG ISSUE" when it didn't need to be.

Nevyn

http://twitter.com/irishissues does not appear to exist and if some scumbag does that it is at least it is a scumbag and not a member of staff.
This issue was raised tactfully through channels a week ago and was ignored, until this feedback thread.

Jonathan

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://twitter.com/irishissues does not appear to exist and if some scumbag does that it is at least it is a scumbag and not a member of staff.

Possibly because twitter is down..

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

This, for example, became a "BIG ISSUE" when it didn't need to be.

I agree with you 100% seamus. It shouldn't have gotten to this point and it didn't need to get to this point of anybody's glands been revved up.

It should have been addressed earlier when it was first raised(a week ago I gather). If it had this feedback thread would likely not have happened and all the other stuff too and the issue would have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Regardless of anyones feelings on the pros and cons of this or how it's panned out, IMHO the mechanism broke down and that much is clear.

Winters

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://twitter.com/irishissues does not appear to exist and if some scumbag does that it is at least it is a scumbag and not a member of staff.
This issue was raised tactfully through channels a week ago and was ignored, until this feedback thread.

I take issue to that. Whoever did it is clearly a legend and showing just how trivial this whole thing is and causing people to get knickers in a twist over something which has a better chance of being of benefit to the community and helping the growth of a site that has its roots in the web pre "two point oooh" than it has to hurt it.

Its very easy to search google for just boards.ie personal issue posts, write a script to scan and tweet/email/repost new threads from PI constantly etc. Everyone knows that posting on PI is not like telling your secret sorority sister your strange jerk fantasies, its posting it to the world (sometimes Anonymously) in order to get feedback and hopefully some positive results.

Trying to censor or hinder the way in which people can access this public information is quite childish and going against a lot of the spirit of boards.

ntlbell

Winters wrote: »

I take issue to that. Whoever did it is clearly a legend and showing just how trivial this whole thing is and causing people to get knickers in a twist over something which has a better chance of being of benefit to the community and helping the growth of a site that has its roots in the web pre "two point oooh" than it has to hurt it.

Its very easy to search google for just boards.ie personal issue posts, write a script to scan and tweet/email/repost new threads from PI constantly etc. Everyone knows that posting on PI is not like telling your secret sorority sister your strange jerk fantacies, its posting it to the world (sometimes Anonymously) in order to get feedback and hopefully some positive results.

Trying to censor or hinder the way in which people can access this public information is quite childish and going against a lot of the spirit of boards.

right on brother!

Nevyn

oh look the same group are gahtering with thier knives, again.
Where did I put my stab proof vest which I bought the last time this happened.

tbh

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://twitter.com/irishissues does not appear to exist and if some scumbag does that it is at least it is a scumbag and not a member of staff.
This issue was raised tactfully through channels a week ago and was ignored, until this feedback thread.

you seem determined to believe that whomever owns that account is only hosting it to take the piss out of PI threads.

Personally, I think that your reaction to this issue, in particular taking it upon yourself to delete PI threads, has directly compromised PI's ability to help users.

Ah well.

Wibbs

Winters wrote: »

I take issue to that. Whoever did it is clearly a legend and showing just how trivial this whole thing is and causing people to get knickers in a twist over something which has a better chance of being of benefit to the community and helping the growth of a site that has its roots in the web pre "two point oooh" than it has to hurt it.

Its very easy to search google for just boards.ie personal issue posts, write a script to scan and tweet/email/repost new threads from PI constantly etc. Everyone knows that posting on PI is not like telling your secret sorority sister your strange jerk fantasies, its posting it to the world (sometimes Anonymously) in order to get feedback and hopefully some positive results.

Trying to censor or hinder the way in which people can access this public information is quite childish and going against a lot of the spirit of boards.

I take your point, but again it's an example of the techie view of the internet. The "all info flows unhindered/the web sees censorship as a fault and routes around it/etc".

It's only one side of it. Yes you could write a script to trawl for PI posts, but most people wouldn't or quite simply couldn't. For the vast majority of posters here they couldn't write a script to go hunting. The web just doesn't belong to geeks anymore. Most don't give a flying about web 1.0 or whatever. The demographic has changed and some of the principles should too.

They log on, they post. Yes they should be made aware of the dangers and lack of anonymity, but it should not be a free for all either.

DeV put it better, but just because one can do something doesn't mean one should or should want to, or make it easier to do so, especially if it is sensitive for someone. No you can't completely stop it, nor would I want to TBH, but it can be minimised. It has been and if it had been before now the striesand effect thingy wouldn't be an issue, nor would the grief.

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

oh look the same group are gahtering with thier knives, again.
Where did I put my stab proof vest which I bought the last time this happened.

Eh, this is nothing personal, I wouldn't care who was wearing the vest!

Obviously it's something you feel strongly about and you acted rashly.

Nevyn

The objection was to threads from PI/RI being touted as hot/popular/intresting as away to promote the site via twitter in what looked like but turned out to be not an offically scantioned account and doing so was not the site's policy at the time and it has now been stated is clearly not site policy at all.

This was queried as per offical channels which is apprently the tactful way of doing things and was ignored.

The threads were only soft deleted as a measure to protect the ops and can be undeleted.

I do not think that the abilty for PI/RI to help people was effected none of the op's asked for their threads to be undeleted.