UPC HD + HTPC = HDTV?

Wheeker

Just wondering what the launch of UPC's HD service means for HTPC users? (see the Cable & MMDS & IPTV forum thread)

I currently have a "digital" UPC STB as my TV input on my HTPC. This is input from the UPC STB through Scart-> composite video + L Audio +R Audio. AFAIK this is actually an Analogue signal. Needless to say the picture quality is not the best (washed-out & artifacts). :rolleyes:

The new UPC HD STB has Scart and HDMI outputs, if I use the Scart output to my current analogue Tuner card as I am now, would this be HD? Are there any TV Tuner cards with an HDMI input? Would the output signal from the UPC HD STB be digital or analogue?

I realise my HTPC's ability to display HD is also down to the graphics card/processor etc. AFAIK my graphics card is up to it as it has an HDMI output.

I have also been thinking that a free and easier way to get HD would be Freesat + Irish DTT (when it eventually launches), but then I would have to install satellite dish/aerial/cabling & I would be losing a whole lot of channels....

What are other HTPC users using as their TV source?

p15574

I currently just have analogue UPC like you have, but I don't actually use it as a HTPC, as the UPC digital stb is in the same room and the htpc picture quality is terrible - I'm assuming due to the tv card being not the highest spec (it's an Aldi desktop). The htpc and stb receive separate aerial inputs, so the stb isn't connected to the htpc like yours is. Given that the composite lead you're using has limited picture quality I'd say you'd just get a 'scaled down' version of the HD picture, which I'd imagine would be worse than the basic SD picture. I think the SCART might just be the same. Don't know about cards with hdmi inputs, I'm afraid, but it stand to reason there'd be some.

I'm in the process of installing a dish etc for Freesat + DTT as you're considering, and if I then ditch UPC I'll need to install a DVB/s/t card in order to have a tv picture in that room, in which case the htpc WILL be used as a htpc as there'll be no other way of viewing tv (the tv doesn't do mpeg4). I'm hoping that the processing muscle will all be in the DVB card instead of the video card being put under too much pressure.

jackdoes

what is the new HD STB from upc like? Make, model, etc?

Wheeker

jackdoes wrote: »

what is the new HD STB from upc like? Make, model, etc?

NOt totally sure yet, but from the Cable & MMDS & IPTV Froum:

DingDong wrote: »

It looks like a modified version of this Cisco 8485dvb
Smart card is place in the back and only one scart and HDMI connection. I don't know if the box has a better GPU than other STB's but the SD channels look slightly nicer on it too.
quote]

Does anyone know if the STB Ethernet output could be used as an input to an HTPC for the TV signal? Would this give HD?

Paulw

From what I know, SCART output will only give you SD picture. You won't get HD through it properly.

The new UPC HD box has the ethernet ports disabled.

It also has no RF out connection.

So, you are limited to using the HDMI out or the SCART out. Obviously, the HDMI is the only one that will give you 1080i/p picture.

jackdoes

Wheeker wrote: »

NOt totally sure yet, but from the Cable & MMDS & IPTV Froum:

DingDong wrote: »

It looks like a modified version of this Cisco 8485dvb
Smart card is place in the back and only one scart and HDMI connection. I don't know if the box has a better GPU than other STB's but the SD channels look slightly nicer on it too.
quote]

Does anyone know if the STB Ethernet output could be used as an input to an HTPC for the TV signal? Would this give HD?

So UPC got a great box from Cisco and downgraded it. Why. Looking at the above spec, it looks like that the USB and Ethernet should be enabled.

jackdoes

That model must be different actually. It has lots of extra fetures like rf out, etc.

Paulw

It's a customised box, but it is built on that Cisco model.

The same box is used in Holland too, and is also customised.

The UPC box has an RF in, SCART out, HDMI out, Optical audio out, ethernet and USB ports. The ethernet and USB ports are disabled.

jackdoes

Ya I just got one yesterday. Very happy with it so far. Surprised it only has a 300MHz processor. The SD STB box must only have had a 100MHz.

Now all I need is a HDTV

Wheeker

Paulw wrote: »

From what I know, SCART output will only give you SD picture. You won't get HD through it properly.

The new UPC HD box has the ethernet ports disabled.

It also has no RF out connection.

So, you are limited to using the HDMI out or the SCART out. Obviously, the HDMI is the only one that will give you 1080i/p picture.

Thanks for that Paul, so would you know of any PC (HD)TV Tuner cards that have an HDMI input?

Paulw

Wheeker wrote: »

Thanks for that Paul, so would you know of any PC (HD)TV Tuner cards that have an HDMI input?

No idea at all. I'm a PC TV Tuner novice. Just ordered one for myself (RF input).

A google search revealed this - http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

No idea about it though.

asharkman

I've got the SD UPC STB and i have it connected to a 42" tv.
Picture on setanta for matches is dreadful sometimes normal TV looks really bad too really digital/pixelated if you get me.

I was wondering if I got one of these HD STB would the picture quality for the SD stations improve?
Have any of you chaps noticed an improvement?


Cheers for any info on this one guys.

el dude

Noob Alert!

Was just wondering wow would i go about getting UPC HD, or Sky HD(not made my mind up yet) to play through Windows Media Center?

dmzguy

Buy a tuner card that supports "composite in", and get a SCART to Composite (plus Stereo RCA Audio Outs) converter plug/cable, and then hook then connect the cable box's Composite Video and Audio Out cables to the tuner card's composite video and audio in ports.

You'll also need a Media Center Edition-capable remote control that has an IR Repeater (this IR Repeater part cannot be stressed enough); MANY remotes will CLAIM to be "Media Center Certified" but if they dont have the IR Repeater capability you will not be able to use them with Vista or Win7 Media Center with a cable set-top box. -Hauppauge.co.uk sells cards with the proper remote and IR Repeater as a package but you need to be careful becuase some of their cards don't support 64 bit versions of Windows and Computers that have more than 3 GB of RAM....


Adam

dmzguy

I'm VERY interested in this thread as I'm also a UPC subscriber who has a Windows Media Center HTPC.

I identify with the people that have been saying that they're looking for a way to get a high-quality/digital feed out of their UPC box and into their media center PC (composite video == POOR quality).

Does anyone know of a model UPC STB that has enabled USB, Firewire, or Ethernet ports that can be used to pull the digital stream/recorded shows off of it onto the media center box?

I'm also considering going the route of a DVB-T tuner to get access to OTA digital broadcasts because it seems like the easiest way to get a decent quality recording but this MPEG4 mess here in Ireland and just general slow pace of progress is putting that idea on hold; Does anyone know if there is a DVB-T device simliar to the "HDHomeRun" that is so popular in the states? (It's an over-the-air dual TV tuner box that rebroadcasts the stream over ethernet and it can act as a Windows Media Center Tuner.)

-Something like this for DVB-T (MPEG4 DTT) would be a FANTASTIC solution for many. -If it supported 802.11 vs. ethernet it could be placed anywhere near a power outlet and could wirelessly tranmit the stream to the HTPC...

There were rumors a couple of years ago that a DVB-T version of the HDHomeRun was under development but it looks like it proved to be "vaporware".


Adam

el dude

dmzguy wrote: »

Buy a tuner card that supports "composite in", and get a SCART to Composite (plus Stereo RCA Audio Outs) converter plug/cable, and then hook then connect the cable box's Composite Video and Audio Out cables to the tuner card's composite video and audio in ports.

Adam

Appreciated. You mention scart there, surely you won't be getting HD quality using scart?

And sorry to appear dim, or lazy , but if you get a chance would you mind posting links to the products you describe. Always find that kind of things greatly helps a noob like myself. Cheers!!

GhanGee

About a month ago I purchased nice HDTV for reasonable price, it's LG 22LS4D. Very decent TV, 22inc it's HDready only but supports resolution up to 1680x1050 so it has great usage in my house for watching TV, playing XBOX360 and as a PC monitor.
*
My previous research about "FreeToAir" in Ireland gave me basic understanding about technologies of broadcasting, encoding, HD receivers, etc.
*
Please, go through next few points and let me know if there's a misinformation, somewhere.
- free-to-air / DTT broadcasting in Ireland is encoded by MPEG4 (my TV is MPEG2 compatible so when tuning for digital TV I get sound only)
- DVB receivers are either internal (PCMCIA CAM module must be used) or external (better connected with HDMI) and capable of receiving signal encoded by MPEG2, MPEG4 or both.
- UPC recently rolled-out limited HD package of 7 channels (8th will come soon). The DTT "free2air" broadcast offers as little as 4-5 channels.
- UPC HD receiver has all necessary standards to allow you to receive their digital HD signal as well as the free2air DTT (when external DTT antena connected), important is it supports MPEG4 (unlike UK HD MPEG2 standard) and providing you with HDMI output

---

Conclusion for me:
The PCMCIA CAM modules are available on eBay but cost €€€ I'd rather get the HD box from UPC this gives me chance to receive the free (national) DTT broadcasting as well as the HD broadcast by UPC. I just need to hook up the box to my HDTV via HDMI and all is set up. I also expect there'll be more channels on both UPC and free2air, soon.

Apogee

GhanGee wrote: »

- free-to-air / DTT broadcasting in Ireland is encoded by MPEG4 (my TV is MPEG2 compatible so when tuning for digital TV I get sound only)

Yes, MPEG4 video compression and DVB-T signal modulation.

GhanGee wrote: »

- DVB receivers are either internal (PCMCIA CAM module must be used) or external (better connected with HDMI) and capable of receiving signal encoded by MPEG2, MPEG4 or both.

I don't understand what you mean by saying "DVB receivers are either internal (PCMCIA CAM module must be used)" - you don't need a PCMCIA module if your TV is MPEG4 compatible, and more and more are.

It's worth noting that the PCMCIA modules will only transcode MPEG4 standard definition streams but not HD.

GhanGee wrote: »

- UPC HD receiver has all necessary standards to allow you to receive their digital HD signal as well as the free2air DTT (when external DTT antena connected), important is it supports MPEG4 (unlike UK HD MPEG2 standard) and providing you with HDMI output

This is incorrect. UPC use MPEG4 compression for HD broadcasts but the signal modulation is DVB-C. Therefore, a UPC receiver is not compatible with DTT.

UK standard defintion DTT is MPEG2 DVB-T. UK high definition DTT will be MPEG4 DVB-T2 which is backwards compatible with DVB-T. So a UK HD DTT receiver or TV will work for Irish DTT.

GhanGee wrote: »

The PCMCIA CAM modules are available on eBay but cost €€€ I'd rather get the HD box from UPC this gives me chance to receive the free (national) DTT broadcasting as well as the HD broadcast by UPC. I just need to hook up the box to my HDTV via HDMI and all is set up. I also expect there'll be more channels on both UPC and free2air, soon.

Unfortunately, your UPC box will work for UPC and nothing else.

GhanGee

Good to know I learn every day.

This is incorrect. UPC use MPEG4 compression for HD broadcasts but the signal modulation is DVB-C. Therefore, a UPC receiver is not compatible with DTT.

This was regards the info I found on the internet talking about some CAM modules allowing you to watch MPEG4 encoded signal on (HD)TVs with MPEG2 receiver (that's my case). What do you know about that

- DVB receivers are either internal (PCMCIA CAM module must be used)

I have my TV bought in UK and when I search for DTT I only get sound, which by another forum I've read is caused by fact that MPEG2 TV can't "read" MPEG4 broadcasting.

bazwaldo

GhanGee wrote: »

This was regards the info I found on the internet talking about some CAM modules allowing you to watch MPEG4 encoded signal on (HD)TVs with MPEG2 receiver (that's my case). What do you know about that

I have my TV bought in UK and when I search for DTT I only get sound, which by another forum I've read is caused by fact that MPEG2 TV can't "read" MPEG4 broadcasting.

If your TV has a CAM slot, then you can a get mpeg4 cam module.

See thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055384875 for details. This has nothing to do with HTPC though.

GhanGee

bazwaldo wrote: »

If your TV has a CAM slot, then you can a get mpeg4 cam module.

See thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055384875 for details. This has nothing to do with HTPC though.

yeh, I own LG (model 22LS4D) TV which is not on the list an I have no guarantee it's compatible and fully working. I get sound only without this module and I am just afraid to buy something I am not sure will do its job with my TV.

bazwaldo

I wouldn't spend much on DTT yet anyway as its still not complete. I am able to receive it on my HTPC with a DVB-T card, but its far from perfect due to gfx driver issues. Nothing that won't be ironed out I'm sure, but no point wasting money on a CAM when you are getting the sama via your UPC HD box.

GhanGee

bazwaldo wrote: »

I wouldn't spend much on DTT yet anyway as its still not complete. I am able to receive it on my HTPC with a DVB-T card, but its far from perfect due to gfx driver issues. Nothing that won't be ironed out I'm sure, but no point wasting money on a CAM when you are getting the sama via your UPC HD box.

people, someone please clarify this.
Apogee said: Unfortunately, your UPC box will work for UPC and nothing else.
Bazwaldo said: but no point wasting money on a CAM when you are getting the sama via your UPC HD box.

I'd love to keep it simple, not to buy another piece of junk and want to have reception of all kind of digital broadband available through 1 receiver only, BUT is that possible ???

Bazwaldo>> your receiver is DVB-T , Apogee's saying UPC uses DVB-C modulation. Are you (with your HTPC / with DVB-T card) able to catch UPC broadcasting, or why do you think the UPC box is capable of receiving DVB-T(2) ?

bazwaldo

What I meant was you can get the irish stations via your UPC stb. Via dvb-c, not dvb-t.

The only way you can get dvb-t is with a cam, a stb, or htpc with some pc card/usb device.

Why do you want to use DTT when you have UPC HD?

GhanGee

actually, I don't have the UPC HD yet. The UPC account is in my housemates' name and he does not want to upgrade. I'll be moving from the house in 3-4 months and until then I want to have clear idea what can I expect from and what do I need for HD. I was thinking I might at least watch the limited number of DTT channels until I'll go but as I read posts of y'all I rather wait for my own UPC account. Afaik, their package is still limited by 7 channels, or so. Does enyone have any info of when they're going to add more HD channels.

And now an extra question, has anyone tried to connect the existing UPC HD box to an LCD monitor over HDMI<->DVI cable (I used one of these for my old monitor to get it connected to HDMI output of my laptop)?

bazwaldo

Can't see why the cable won't work. As I'm sur eyou are aware, you'll need another cable for sound.

One thing though. Unless my TV was 32" or more, I wouldn't be too bothered paying extra for HD.

And one more thing, DTT doesnt have HD anything.

GhanGee

bazwaldo wrote: »

Can't see why the cable won't work. As I'm sur eyou are aware, you'll need another cable for sound.

Thanx, the sound goes externally anyways 8-)

One thing though. Unless my TV was 32" or more, I wouldn't be too bothered paying extra for HD.

The guy does not watch TV at all and he knows I am leaving anyways If I planned to stay I'd pay it myself...

And one more thing, DTT doesnt have HD anything.

You're right, I hope it'll become reality soon...
http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/multi-platform/comment/will-ofcoms-plan-for-hd-on-dtt-work/819047.article

Wheeker

Resurrecting this thread- I've been doing a bit more research (I posted on the Sticky above: "Grey Video with your NTL Box? Help is here!" but have had no response ).

Has anyone hooked-up a UPC HD STB to HTPC yet?

My understanding is that picture quality in descending order is:

Component -> S-Video -> Composite (RGB).

My current UPC Mediabox STB only outputs RGB & I can therefore only use composite connections to my HTPC which produces a poor picture. If I wanted to use a S-Video connection I would need to buy a SCART-> S-Video Converter (Stg£69+del), which may or may not improve the picture. Has anyone used one of these?

However it just occurred to me: does the new UPC HD+ STB output S-Video as well? If so then it could be connected direct to S-Video on HTPC & (in theory) give an improved picture. Anyone done it yet?

I haven't found any TV Tuner cards (only Video Capture) that have an HDMI input.

soSolid

AFAIK, if you get a video capture card, it won't decode the HDMI output from the UPC HD box, due to HDCP - the UPC box has copy protection that will stop HD output from being captured by a video capture card.

One way around this might be to use a Hauppauge PVR to receive the HDMI output from the UPC box and into the PVR component-in, and then take the component video loop out from the PVR into your HTPC.

I must stress that I haven't done this (yet!). I'm currently using Windows 7 Media Centre with two Hauppauge HVR cards taking input from two UPC standard digital boxes. It works fine, but is only gives SD output (cuz I don't have the UPC HD boxes yet).

wayguk

Hi,

I've been reading through some posts regarding viewing upc digital tv through windows 7 media centre.
I read your post below and it kind of answered my query, but maybe you can explain to me further if you don't mind?
My query is this: the scart link currently running from the STB to the TV will instead be connected the a tv tuner card in the pc, right? (so I'll need to source a suitable tv tuner card - you suggested Hauppage).
Now with that in place and using a keyboard/mouse (or using a media centre remote control) I want to be able to view and browse through various tv channels, and schedule tv channel recordings as needed.
So if the input if from the ntl stb how can media centre change the channel of the stb?
I see that the usa hauppage cards have a ir blaster that you can put in front of the stb.
Any chance you can make my understanding more clear please?
Collie

dmzguy wrote: »

Buy a tuner card that supports "composite in", and get a SCART to Composite (plus Stereo RCA Audio Outs) converter plug/cable, and then hook then connect the cable box's Composite Video and Audio Out cables to the tuner card's composite video and audio in ports.

You'll also need a Media Center Edition-capable remote control that has an IR Repeater (this IR Repeater part cannot be stressed enough); MANY remotes will CLAIM to be "Media Center Certified" but if they dont have the IR Repeater capability you will not be able to use them with Vista or Win7 Media Center with a cable set-top box. -Hauppauge.co.uk sells cards with the proper remote and IR Repeater as a package but you need to be careful becuase some of their cards don't support 64 bit versions of Windows and Computers that have more than 3 GB of RAM....


Adam

wayguk

one more question:
if you have a dual card do you also need two stb to avail of the dual channel option for recording and viewing seperate channels?