Eli Manning will become the highest-paid player in the NFL after agreeing a $97 milli

Leslie91

davyjose wrote: »

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not putting Brees in the same league as these guys. But I'm sure as hell not putting Rivers in there either. Come back to me when you can tell me the "IT" Rivers has that Brees doesn't. Sounds like sour grapes.

You obviously didn't watch the Colts much last season

Sour grapes?...... what?, that Brees is gone and we have Rivers instead. U must b jokin. :eek:

As for watching the Colts, eh, yep, watched them a few times over the last few years;

Jan 3 2009 Indy 17 SD 23
Jan 13 2008 SD 28 Indy 24
Nov 11 2007 Indy 21 SD 23

:cool:

Leslie91

Craig87 wrote: »

Brees is the better QB he has the better arm. He has the better numbers. Rivers has never had the better passing yards.

Rivers is on the better team. He has had the better running game to back him up. The better defense.

Brees has had to single handedly win games for NO. The Saints D is one of the leagues worst. Rivers has arguably the best TE in the business with Gates. Rivers is in the easier Division.

All this included and Brees still managed to make a Championship game before
Rivers.

As far as character, Brees is a more humble player he doesn't have the arrogance or ignorance to run his mouth of and taunt opposing fans. Brees has arguably the biggest cannon arm in the league but he doesn't run his mouth about how big a throw he has or how he will break Dan Marino's record.

I'm not saying that Rivers is not tough. Yeah he played through the pain barrier and I think thats commendable but as far as personal character Brees is the bigger man.

OK, looks like I am on my own here. Craig, believe me, your impression of Rivers (arrogance/ignorance, run mouth off/taunt opposing fans) could not be more wrong.

I'm telling u the lad is a bible holding goody 2 shoes. The lad won't even curse for crying out loud. What u saw at Indy was him bantering with a drunk Indy fan, that's it, fact, it was silly to get engaged with a fan especially a drunk one. What u saw with Cutler was started by Cutler against our D and Rivers was cheerleading our defense, fact. Not since the 07 season have we seen anything like the above, and we won't see it again.

Yes Brees does not run his mouth, I never said he did.

All I am saying is this;

(1) Brees is NOT clutch. But he is a v good QB.
(2) Rivers is the better QB (08 ratings Rivers = 105.5 Brees = 96.2). Both threw the same no. of TDs but Brees through the ball 101 times more than Rivers.
(3) Gimme Rivers over Brees everytime.

That's my last post on this topic unless someone says something silly.

tallaghtoutlaws

Craig87 wrote: »

Brees is the better QB he has the better arm. He has the better numbers. Rivers has never had the better passing yards.

Rivers is on the better team. He has had the better running game to back him up. The better defense.

Brees has had to single handedly win games for NO. The Saints D is one of the leagues worst. Rivers has arguably the best TE in the business with Gates. Rivers is in the easier Division.

All this included and Brees still managed to make a Championship game before
Rivers.

As far as character, Brees is a more humble player he doesn't have the arrogance or ignorance to run his mouth of and taunt opposing fans. Brees has arguably the biggest cannon arm in the league but he doesn't run his mouth about how big a throw he has or how he will break Dan Marino's record.

I'm not saying that Rivers is not tough. Yeah he played through the pain barrier and I think thats commendable but as far as personal character Brees is the bigger man.

I agree with alot of your post for sure but I see Brees and Rivers on the same level. Alot to each of their games that differ.

True River has the better Offense but this also reflect in the Chargers gameplan to hand the ball off more than the Saints would. Giving Rivers a lower figure in the stats columns. Bree has the got the stronger arm thats for sure but to be honest if you put Rivers on the Saints he would get the same numbers due to the Offense the Saints run. The Saints Offense suits a passer more than the run.

Similar style QBs on two very different offenses really.

As for the attitude I totally agree with you Brees is the more humble of the two. Rivers episode with Cutler and shouting at fans at games and that alleged shouting match at Indy with a fan brings him down in my book.

tallaghtoutlaws

Leslie91 wrote: »

OK, looks like I am on my own here. Craig, believe me, your impression of Rivers (arrogance/ignorance, run mouth off/taunt opposing fans) could not be more wrong.

I'm telling u the lad is a bible holding goody 2 shoes. The lad won't even curse for crying out loud. What u saw at Indy was him bantering with a drunk Indy fan, that's it, fact, it was silly to get engaged with a fan especially a drunk one. What u saw with Cutler was started by Cutler against our D and Rivers was cheerleading our defense, fact. Not since the 07 season have we seen anything like the above, and we won't see it again.

Ah hear now it wasnt just at Indy he has done it at quite a few games. If you tube didnt delete vids these days I would get you the vid made by a fan on his phone. And the whole business with Cutler was childish and immature for a QB in the NFL.

I know plenty of bible bashers doesnt make them saints.(disclaimer: the word saints does not refer to the NFL team, it refers to actual saints lol)

Craig87

Leslie91 wrote: »

Yes Brees does not run his mouth, I never said he did.

All I am saying is this;

(1) Brees is NOT clutch. But he is a v good QB.
(2) Rivers is the better QB (08 ratings Rivers = 105.5 Brees = 96.2). Both threw the same no. of TDs but Brees through the ball 101 times more than Rivers.
(3) Gimme Rivers over Brees everytime.

That's my last post on this topic unless someone says something silly.

Thats just going on one season. And the reason Brees didn't throw more TDs is because Colston missed 5 games. Bush missed 6 and Shockey missed 4. Thats his three key recievers missing a total of 15 games.

The Saints lead the league in offense even though there running game was ranked 28th overall. Thats all Brees.

There D is ranked 23rd in the league and the still managed to go .500, Thats all Brees.

Passing %
Brees - 65.0 / 67.5 / 64.3
Rivers - 65.3 / 60.2 / 61.7

Season Yards
Brees - 5,069 / 4,423 / 4,418
Rivers - 4,009 / 3,152 / 3,388

TD's
Brees - 34 / 28 / 26
Rivers - 34 / 21 / 22

Passer Rating
Brees - 96.2 / 89.4 / 96.2
Rivers - 105.5 / 82.4 / 92.0

20+ Yard Plays
Brees - 66 / 47 / 61
Rivers - 48 / 44 / 41

40+ Yard Plays
Brees - 16 / 8 / 18
Rivers - 12 / 4 / 5

Sacked
Brees - 13 / 16 / 18
Rivers - 25 / 22 / 27

Sack Yards
Brees - 92 / 109 / 105
Rivers - 151 / 163 / 144

Im only using three years of stats cause thats when Rivers became a full starter. The only thing Rivers can boast better than Brees is INTs. The reason Brees has more INTs was cause he was missing his key players for periods, and when a team relies on his arm to carry the team of course there is going to INTS. But his passing % is better than Rivers. For a QB who throws over 100 times more to have a better % says it all.

I would take Brees any day over Rivers.

As for Rivers attitude the following links will show you what I mean.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/story/2008/1/9/103836/6662

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/27/bailey-criticizes-rivers-for-taunt/

Craig87

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah hear now it wasnt just at Indy he has done it at quite a few games. If you tube didnt delete vids these days I would get you the vid made by a fan on his phone. And the whole business with Cutler was childish and immature for a QB in the NFL.

I know plenty of bible bashers doesnt make them saints.

There are tons of vids around that show Rivers being a complete A$$. Simple fact is at the end of the days Rivers has not brought the chargers to a superbowl, so he has not really proved himself to be any better to SD than Brees.

tallaghtoutlaws

Craig87 wrote: »

There are tons of vids around that show Rivers being a complete A$$. Simple fact is at the end of the days Rivers has not brought the chargers to a superbowl, so he has not really proved himself to be any better to SD than Brees.

I didnt say he was better than Brees.

Craig87

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I didnt say he was better than Brees.

I was quoting you because you were arguing with the point I was making about Rivers having an attitude problem.

Sea Devils

Craig87 wrote: »

I was quoting you because you were arguing with the point I was making about Rivers having an attitude problem.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

As for the attitude I totally agree with you Brees is the more humble of the two. Rivers episode with Cutler and shouting at fans at games and that alleged shouting match at Indy with a fan brings him down in my book.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah hear now it wasnt just at Indy he has done it at quite a few games. If you tube didnt delete vids these days I would get you the vid made by a fan on his phone. And the whole business with Cutler was childish and immature for a QB in the NFL.

Seems like he was agreeing with you to me

Craig87

Sea Devils wrote: »

Seems like he was agreeing with you to me

I was meant to write agreeing with the point i was making, not agruing sorry my bad. Stupid fingers.

tallaghtoutlaws

Craig87 wrote: »

I was meant to write agreeing with the point i was making, not agruing sorry my bad. Stupid fingers.

Oh I see what you done there arguing agreeing easy mistake Good thing you didn't words that are not spelt similarily :D;)

Craig87

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Oh I see what you done there arguing agreeing easy mistake Good thing you didn't words that are not spelt similarily :D;)

Im dyslexic as well so that just makes things extra worse

Leslie91

Craig87 wrote: »

Thats just going on one season. And the reason Brees didn't throw more TDs is because Colston missed 5 games. Bush missed 6 and Shockey missed 4. Thats his three key recievers missing a total of 15 games.

The Saints lead the league in offense even though there running game was ranked 28th overall. Thats all Brees.

There D is ranked 23rd in the league and the still managed to go .500, Thats all Brees.

Passing %
Brees - 65.0 / 67.5 / 64.3
Rivers - 65.3 / 60.2 / 61.7

Season Yards
Brees - 5,069 / 4,423 / 4,418
Rivers - 4,009 / 3,152 / 3,388

TD's
Brees - 34 / 28 / 26
Rivers - 34 / 21 / 22

Passer Rating
Brees - 96.2 / 89.4 / 96.2
Rivers - 105.5 / 82.4 / 92.0

20+ Yard Plays
Brees - 66 / 47 / 61
Rivers - 48 / 44 / 41

40+ Yard Plays
Brees - 16 / 8 / 18
Rivers - 12 / 4 / 5

Sacked
Brees - 13 / 16 / 18
Rivers - 25 / 22 / 27

Sack Yards
Brees - 92 / 109 / 105
Rivers - 151 / 163 / 144

Im only using three years of stats cause thats when Rivers became a full starter. The only thing Rivers can boast better than Brees is INTs. The reason Brees has more INTs was cause he was missing his key players for periods, and when a team relies on his arm to carry the team of course there is going to INTS. But his passing % is better than Rivers. For a QB who throws over 100 times more to have a better % says it all.

I would take Brees any day over Rivers.

As for Rivers attitude the following links will show you what I mean.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/story/2008/1/9/103836/6662

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/27/bailey-criticizes-rivers-for-taunt/

Compare apples with apples. Rivers first 3 years against Brees first 3. No contest. And we are talking about now as far as I'm concerned. Rivers > Brees end of.

As for the links, pure Bronco homerism. Yes I'm a SD homer but I know the facts. Read the article in the mtn news again. It confirms what I was saying, Cutler got into it with our D and Rivers supported our D, no profanity whatsoever. Cutler is a tosser who ran from the AFC West because SD and Rivers had his number.

Champ was doing what he was supposed to, publicly support his QB.

All Donkey BS.

Your stats/points only go to show something Tallaght said. In NO it is all pass pass pass. In SD it is a little more balanced (even though believe it or not we are more of a passing team now).

Btw Craig, what's your team?. NO or Denver or somewhere else?. Just wondering.

eagle eye

Leslie91 wrote: »

Compare apples with apples. Rivers first 3 years against Brees first 3. No contest. And we are talking about now as far as I'm concerned. Rivers > Brees end of.

As for the links, pure Bronco homerism. Yes I'm a SD homer but I know the facts. Read the article in the mtn news again. It confirms what I was saying, Cutler got into it with our D and Rivers supported our D, no profanity whatsoever. Cutler is a tosser who ran from the AFC West because SD and Rivers had his number.

Champ was doing what he was supposed to, publicly support his QB.

All Donkey BS.

Your stats/points only go to show something Tallaght said. In NO it is all pass pass pass. In SD it is a little more balanced (even though believe it or not we are more of a passing team now).

Btw Craig, what's your team?. NO or Denver or somewhere else?. Just wondering.

Neither guy is proven, they both are great when things are going their way. They have to prove they can do it when games are tight.
You couldn't pick one of them over the other.
You say San Diego is more of a throwing team now, well thats not exactly true, Rivers dumps the ball off to LT and Sproles who are just ahead of him and they do their thing. So while he is getting yardage there its really the running game and all his figures are better because of it.
I'm not calling it myself, when one proves they can handle the pressure games then I'll call it but neither has to this point.

Leslie91

eagle eye wrote: »

Neither guy is proven, they both are great when things are going their way. They have to prove they can do it when games are tight.
You couldn't pick one of them over the other.
You say San Diego is more of a throwing team now, well thats not exactly true, Rivers dumps the ball off to LT and Sproles who are just ahead of him and they do their thing. So while he is getting yardage there its really the running game and all his figures are better because of it.
I'm not calling it myself, when one proves they can handle the pressure games then I'll call it but neither has to this point.

Not true I'm afraid, like I said, believe it or not, we are a pass first team now. We even had LT griping about it last year (see below). LT has been hurt the last 2/3 yrs and as a result slowly but surely the O has moved towards being more of a passing team.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/23/chargers-tomlinson-need-to-run/?&zIndex=7022

eagle eye

Leslie91 wrote: »

Not true I'm afraid, like I said, believe it or not, we are a pass first team now. We even had LT griping about it last year (see below). LT has been hurt the last 2/3 yrs and as a result slowly but surely the O has moved towards being more of a passing team.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/23/chargers-tomlinson-need-to-run/?&zIndex=7022

Darren Sproles had 29 receptions last year for 342 yards in the regular season and 5 tds. Thats up from 10 receptions for 31 yards the previous year
LT had 52 receptions for 426 yards and 1 td. Even Mike Tolbert had 172 yards.
Thats close to 850 yards receiving between your running backs.

Leslie91

eagle eye wrote: »

Darren Sproles had 29 receptions last year for 342 yards in the regular season and 5 tds. Thats up from 10 receptions for 31 yards the previous year
LT had 52 receptions for 426 yards and 1 td. Even Mike Tolbert had 172 yards.
Thats close to 850 yards receiving between your running backs.

Just a question not being rude/narky, And your point is?........ so we pass a bit more to Sproles, and the running backs have 850 yards receiving.

It is still all passing/receiving. Strange as it may seem that a team with one of the best RBs the league has ever seen, SD was more a pass team than run team last year.

With a healthy LT I expect to see us go back to trying to establish the run more this year. If it works then there will be even less pressure on Rivers and with teams having to play 8 in the box, watch Vincent Jackson and Gates kill teams.

Edit: OK I am officially done with this thread. I believe I have made my point.

eagle eye

Leslie91 wrote: »

Just a question not being rude/narky, And your point is?........ so we pass a bit more to Sproles, and the running backs have 850 yards receiving.

It is still all passing/receiving. Strange as it may seem that a team with one of the best RBs the league has ever seen, SD was more a pass team than run team last year.

With a healthy LT I expect to see us go back to trying to establish the run more this year. If it works then there will be even less pressure on Rivers and with teams having to play 8 in the box, watch Vincent Jackson and Gates kill teams.

Edit: OK I am officially done with this thread. I believe I have made my point.

My point is that its falsifying(is that a word? spelling?) Rivers' numbers. I'm not dishing the guy at all by saying this, I'm just saying that he has a lot more yardage and a higher completion percentage because of these dump offs.

Craig87

Leslie91 wrote: »

Compare apples with apples. Rivers first 3 years against Brees first 3. No contest. And we are talking about now as far as I'm concerned. Rivers > Brees end of.

As for the links, pure Bronco homerism. Yes I'm a SD homer but I know the facts. Read the article in the mtn news again. It confirms what I was saying, Cutler got into it with our D and Rivers supported our D, no profanity whatsoever. Cutler is a tosser who ran from the AFC West because SD and Rivers had his number.

Champ was doing what he was supposed to, publicly support his QB.

All Donkey BS.

Your stats/points only go to show something Tallaght said. In NO it is all pass pass pass. In SD it is a little more balanced (even though believe it or not we are more of a passing team now).

Btw Craig, what's your team?. NO or Denver or somewhere else?. Just wondering.

Ok look at the team Philips Rivers walked onto, compare that to the team that Brees had. They were miles apart.

Im a Dallas Cowboys fan. And before you say I'm not from Texas so the fact Brees is from Texas has nothing to do with my view. I just feel that Brees is a better QB.

All the stats actually show that over the last three years Brees has the better stats. Someone (can't remember who) said Rivers was better because of the better passer rating all them stats disprove that. Sure you hear hall of fame QBs like Aikman etc saying that they don't understand why the passer rating is even used.

Anyway I'm not saying that Rivers a a waste Im just saying that I think Brees is the better QB and he has a more humble approach to the game

Craig87

I agree that Rivers has to throw the ball and the RBs havbe to catch it. That I agree with but what I dont agree with is that SD are a passing team over running team.

Last year the Chargers passed the play 53% of the time, the ran 47% of the time. It broke down to the Chargers throwing the ball three more times a game to running the ball.

The Saints on the other hand passed the ball 61% of the time. Running only 39% of the time. Now that is a full blown pass over run team. The Saints threw the ball 15 times extra per game. Thats five times the surplus of SD passing.

SD may have passed more but overrall on the grand scheme of things they were still pretty much a balanced offense.

The Saints on the other hand are pass first, pass second, ah I guess will might as well throw a run play in now, right so back to passing kind of offense

davyjose

Leslie91 wrote: »

Sour grapes?...... what?, that Brees is gone and we have Rivers instead. U must b jokin. :eek:

As for watching the Colts, eh, yep, watched them a few times over the last few years;

Jan 3 2009 Indy 17 SD 23
Jan 13 2008 SD 28 Indy 24
Nov 11 2007 Indy 21 SD 23

:cool:

So you've completely decided to ignore my point (and Manning's Raft of 4th Quarter comeback - including a record against the Texans, not to mention nine wins on the trot), to make it a Bolts Vs Colts Argument. Fine, lets do that - you've knocked us out of the last two play-off's (fair enough), but what did you get out of it? We have the rings - so I see your pair of sunglasses, and raise you a sticky-out-tongue :cool::P

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

Neither guy is proven, they both are great when things are going their way. They have to prove they can do it when games are tight.
You couldn't pick one of them over the other.
You say San Diego is more of a throwing team now, well thats not exactly true, Rivers dumps the ball off to LT and Sproles who are just ahead of him and they do their thing. So while he is getting yardage there its really the running game and all his figures are better because of it.
I'm not calling it myself, when one proves they can handle the pressure games then I'll call it but neither has to this point.

That's the best post on this thread so far. We're arguing about if's and but's. My last point will be this - 5,000 yards are a lot rarer than 105 QB ratings. Sure it doesn't just come down to stats, and Rivers' QB rating last season needs - NEEDS - to be commended. But statistically, what Brees did last season is more unique.

Maybe that's all it comes down to, between the two. But that's what gives Brees the edge, thusfar, in my book.

Of course neither of them got MVP ... See No.1 below

:pac:

Chucky the tree

How someone can say Brees doesn't have it or isn't "clutch" and then say claims does have it and is clutch is seriously bizarre.

Craig87

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How someone can say Brees doesn't have it or isn't "clutch" and then say claims does have it and is clutch is seriously bizarre.

I just think to say someone doesn't have it yet can be yards away from breaking a record from a legend like Marino is inconceivably.