Conscription would you do it?

Irishcrx

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

Kinetic^

Are you insane? They send the Irish army to Limerick ffs! NO WAY!

Long Onion

Surely the whole point is that you can't "not do it" - otherwise it wouldn't be conscription.

Anyhoo I would oppose the suggestion in Ireland, there would be no tanks in it.

DamoDLK

Doubt it would do anyone any harm, it would teach discipline to a lot of young pups methinks.

genericguy

Long Onion wrote: »

Surely the whole point is that you can't "not do it" - otherwise it wouldn't be conscription.

Anyhoo I would oppose the suggestion in Ireland, there would be no tanks in it.

Sir, could you please get your coat and leave without a fuss?

almostnever

Absolutely no chance.

Long Onion

TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXI:o

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Expresso Bongo

Pfft. I resent even having to pay taxes to this country. The idea of risking my life for it is laughable.

Perhaps if I had grown up in some 3rd world shíthole and then came here I'd see the value of the place, but I didn't and so I don't.

Mena

I was conscripted when I turned 18. Best two years of my life. I highly recommend it, especially for some of the delinquents today.

citizen_p

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

ehmmm ehmmm hippie ehmmmm


/:oonly joking

id do it......

btw what was the lastwar the irish fought in???? besides the civil war??

everything else was peacekeeping etc... under U.N mandate

MagicMarker

Do I get a gun?

I don't see how this would do any harm to be honest, most teenagers these days need it.

Cookie_Monster

Isin't the point of conscription that you have to do it regardless of whether you want to?

Long Onion

Ok so we take all the dregs of society, bunk them in together for two years, teach them unarmed combat and train them in the use of firearms and then kick them back out after 2 years - oh yes please:rolleyes:

My name is URL

Denmark have a good system

They send you a letter on your 18th birthday to ask when you graduate and will be free for a mandatory 4 months of service

They only draft about 1000 per year and if you're not drawn out in any given year you don't have to serve.

Nothing wrong with it imo, I think it'd be good for people

topper75

Conscription is not a great idea unless we have our backs against the wall. The threat of it in the Great War gave Sinn Féin arguably one of the greatest boosts they ever got in terms of popularity when they opposed it. Compulsory military service on the other hand - I am all for.

When did our Euro friends who do this thing last send out youngsters doing service into battle? The odds are slim for you when you think of it.

Other point to think about is: a six-month stint in the service would give some tracksuit-tucked-in-whitesocks/hoopy earrings antisocial cnuts out there in Ireland some self-respect, hygiene, and discipline.

It would cost the taxpayers X. But the savings to the taxpayer down the line in terms of the justice system and welfare payments etc. would be a staggering multiple of X.

Also a good social leveller - no opportunity for rich parents to buy kids out. It would be a marvellous bootcamp style set up - no sick notes - teaching males and females a lot of the basics that our school system seems to miss out on e.g. eating properly, personal hygiene, taking on adverse conditions without giving up, thinking for themselves, suffering consequences of their actions, pride in appearance, teamwork etc... loads of potential!

Boardnashea

There are lots of different ways to do National Service without partaking in military service. Think National Social Service or N Enviro S or N Youth S.

topper75

BTW for people worried about guns and delinquents -

you don't get the guns - the guns are the quartermaster's!

Napoli

I think prisoners should be automatically conscripted into the army. Then if they get killed in battle it's a win-win situation for us and the enemy.

Irishcrx

I'm actually amazed that people here think "It would sort the youth out"...yes or make them even more violent and insane and that "Ah it would do no harm"...you could die? or be forced to kill. I'm not talking mainly about Ireland I mean any country, what if their was a war going on and we were to be conscripted and sent to it to fight would you still think the same? Would you not oppose your call up or would you rather die doe nothing and leave your family without a brother, father or husband?...

topper75

Boardnashea wrote: »

There are lots of different ways to do National Service without partaking in military service. Think National Social Service or N Enviro S or N Youth S.

National service would mean participants are subject to martial law, so disobeying orders = direct consequences.

fintonie

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I do apologies sir if I am out of order here, but it would seem to me that the scum bags (which is the term you use) would be of better use as target practice, so if the participants did hit the front line, they would be ready for some of the gruesome sites, plus it would be a lot better than circles on a board me thinks.

BraziliaNZ

Military service is a great idea. A friend of mine from Germany had had to do military service in the Navy and said it was the best time of his life. It sorts a lot of people out and teaches them respect for authority. Our youth haven't an ounce of discipline about them, compare them to the German youth or Swiss.

As for conscription, if I was needed to fight for a good cause I would.

Long Onion

Irishcrx wrote: »

or would you rather die doe nothing and leave your family without a brother, father or husband?...

Leave her out of this - she's kind hot in an easy listening kinda way:D

El Siglo

Napoli wrote: »

I think prisoners should be automatically conscripted into the army. Then if they get killed in battle it's a win-win situation for us and the enemy.

This has been done before, see here. I remember reading Antony Beevor on this and he writes how the Red Army commanders during the Battle of Stalingrad, used to use the penal battalions as mine clearance, in that they would march in formation through a mine field in order to clear it for the volunteers and conscripts. So +1 for prisoners in the army!;)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Expresso Bongo wrote: »

Perhaps if I had grown up in some 3rd world shíthole and then came here I'd see the value of the place, but I didn't and so I don't.

If you'd served in some third world countries and come back here, believe me you quickly learn to appricate how cushy we have it here.

Your soft, thats all.

.

Cookie_Monster

topper75 wrote: »

BTW for people worried about guns and delinquents -

you don't get the guns - the guns are the quartermaster's!

The Swiss do, feckin maniacs

El Siglo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The Swiss do, feckin maniacs

Yeh but they're the Swiss, nobody fcuks with the Swiss, they'll cut you to shreads!

Napoli

El Siglo wrote: »

This has been done before, see here. I remember reading Antony Beevor on this and he writes how the Red Army commanders during the Battle of Stalingrad, used to use the penal battalions as mine clearance, in that they would march in formation through a mine field in order to clear it for the volunteers and conscripts. So +1 for prisoners in the army!;)

Interesting read. Using them to clear mine fields is a bit of a "waste" though. If they manage to take out a few enemy soldiers before they get clipped themselves, it's all the better for us.

A lot of prisoners will have already taken a bullet before anyway and they reckon they are tough guys, so sending them into battle shouldn't be a problem for them.

irish_bob

young men crave discipline , the army provides the right kind of guidance for them , strict , authoratarian but agressive

El Siglo

Napoli wrote: »

Interesting read. Using them to clear mine fields is a bit of a "waste" though. If they manage to take out a few enemy soldiers before they get clipped themselves, it's all the better for us.

A lot of prisoners will have already taken a bullet before anyway and they reckon they are tough guys, so sending them into battle shouldn't be a problem for them.

Yeh but can you imagine how many criminals we could get rid of by using them on these 'special' missions, just like "Operation Human Shield".:D

Cookie_Monster

El Siglo wrote: »

Yeh but they're the Swiss, nobody fcuks with the Swiss, they'll cut you to shreads!

Blocked in work but aren't the "Swiss guard" not Vatican soldiers and in fact not Swiss?

El Siglo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Blocked in work but aren't the "Swiss guard" not Vatican soldiers and in fact not Swiss?

Oh no, they're Swiss Mercenaries working for the Pontiff, see here.

mobius42

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

I don't think you understand what conscription is.

fintonie

El Siglo wrote: »

Yeh but can you imagine how many criminals we could get rid of by using them on these 'special' missions, just like "Operation Human Shield".:D

no it doesn't

Irishcrx

mobius42 wrote: »

I don't think you understand what conscription is.

Oh do I not?...I think I do. Conscription is an involuntary service to an authority country. Meaning you are forced like the rest of the nation to carry out it's bidding weather that be in the front line, behind a desk or making coffee which was decided by social status in the old days. The alternitive for this is jail.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect us right now, sort out the youth, they get training etc. But at war they would be sent to fight without a doubt and given the age we live in, I can't see another 50 years without England or the US going to war and using this system as a means of gaining soldiers.

Holsten

No way, I'd leave the country before I'd join any army.

Agent J

If the situation was desperate enough that the Government had to bring it in i think a lot of people who would be aganist it in principle would change their minds pretty quickly.

Or have their minds changed by the threat of imprisonment or possibly worse.
There is a clause in the constitution that basically says if Ireland is invaded the Cabinet can do what it likes until the Dail is able to meet.

I wouldn't object myself it it came in. Desperate times and all.

Elessar

IMO the irish defence forces are some of the biggest wastes of money in this country. No offence to anyone in the service, they do a great job, but Ireland does not need an expensive armed force when the money going into it could be put to good use elsewhere. There should be of course provisions for small scale services like naval patrols against smuggling etc but as a whole an Irish army like we have (and air corps - wtf is the point of that?) is simply not needed.

And no I would not do conscription. I'd fake some medical condition. To hell with some powertrip maniac telling me what to fcuking do.

/ducks.

Rebelheart

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

Yes, I would just love to fight under instruction from the same people who are going to make our generation and future generations pay financially for their stupidity (although all of them are financially secure for life). To be conscripted by those people is absurd.

Let idiots die for the interests of the ruling elite, just like all those naive individuals in 1914-1918.

son.of.jimi

I think it would be a good idea tbh, I'd have gladly done it if made to. . .

I mean it would certainly sort out a lot of 'young offenders' and would help with the 'lazy' mentality of most of the young people today.

For instance the perfectly able bodied people who leave school then make no effort to contribute to society and think they can coast through life on the dole. . . I mean if they were to leave school, do two years service, they wouldn't just leave and join the dole afterwards would they?

They'd be more likely to either continue in service or go to college or even WORK after they had left. . . .

I think that conscription could be a great kick in the a** for the future Ireland

ejmaztec

Elessar wrote: »

IMO the irish defence forces are some of the biggest wastes of money in this country. No offence to anyone in the service, they do a great job, but Ireland does not need an expensive armed force when the money going into it could be put to good use elsewhere. There should be of course provisions for small scale services like naval patrols against smuggling etc but as a whole an Irish army like we have (and air corps - wtf is the point of that?) is simply not needed.

And no I would not do conscription. I'd fake some medical condition. To hell with some powertrip maniac telling me what to fcuking do.

/duckschicken.

Nodin

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

I'm too old now so can't really comment personally.

In general though,I'd say the idea of a widespread knowledge of military tactics and the like amongst the general populace would scare the shite out of the body politic....

Manic Moran

It very much has become a cultural thing. The Swiss are very proud of their citizen/soldier heritage, and it's considered something of an honour to be conscripted. Their army has downsized a little, they no longer conscript everyone and can thus pick and choose a bit. Their annual national children's shooting competition has thousands of 12-16 year-olds shooting the Swiss Army's service rifle (Look up Knabenschiessen), and it is quite normal to see someone strolling go down the shops with an assault rifle slung over their shoulder: They're just stopping off on the way to the range.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg/450px-Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg.

The Israelis also culturally consider military service to be a duty, and those who shirk it without good reason tend to be somewhat ostracised.

A fair compromise is done by many European countries, where you do a couple of years of some form of government service, not necessarily in the military. Greece used to give you the choice of 18 months 'at sea' duty in the Navy, 2 years shore service, or 5 years in the police (if not banned by criminal record). It worked out, my uncle spent his time in the Hellenic Air Force repairing helicopters, he's now head of Olympic Airway's technical division.

NTM

prinz

Manic Moran wrote: »

A fair compromise is done by many European countries, where you do a couple of years of some form of government service, not necessarily in the military.
NTM

+1 People automatically jump on the military/guns/wars bandwagon. Friend of mine had to do his service in Germany and opted for Social Service as opposed to Military Service, as the choice is there. So he did a spell as an orderly in a hospital. Such an idea in Ireland would be great as it's badly needed tbh.

Nodin

Aye, the Germans had a choice between the Army and the ambulance service. The French only had a choice between serving at home or abroad, if I recall, but its scrapped conscription now.....apparently running around in the jungle only sounds glamorous till you get there....

Fugly

If it's conscription, not alot of options to be honest.

I think a mandatory national service would be great, focusing on the social side. I mean most organisations are crying out for volunteers and it would teach people social responsibility.

Military option would be available too, however some people would not do well in the army. It doesn't "straighten" everybody out. And for the scumbags, weapons training is not something I think they need extra lessons in.

I can't wait until I'm ruling the world.:rolleyes:

Local-womanizer

prinz wrote: »

+1 People automatically jump on the military/guns/wars bandwagon. Friend of mine had to do his service in Germany and opted for Social Service as opposed to Military Service, as the choice is there. So he did a spell as an orderly in a hospital. Such an idea in Ireland would be great as it's badly needed tbh.

In Germany,is it if you have a job after college,you wont be asked to join?

prinz

Local-womanizer wrote: »

In Germany,is it if you have a job after college,you wont be asked to join?

Not 100% sure on the ins and outs - I know there are various exceptions for different reasons, but AFAIK it's generally done about 19/20, before you go to college. A friend of his was in the Navy, and he had a great time doing it. It definitely helps instill a bit of social and community spirit.

Prof.Badass

I would rather serve time in prison than be forced into the army and I would rather die fighting conscription than die a conscript.

That being said, if Ireland was invaded I wouldn't have much of a problem joining the army provided no-one was ever forced to leave the island.

If war was looming I think we should all be given guns/weapons and trained in various aspects of geurilla warfare. We'd all organise into cells and then go back to our homes ready for the invasion. If we were to fight on their terms we wouldn't stand a chance.

The army would be the leaders of the resistance and be the masters of stealth operations. Short of some sort of genocide, i wouldn't see any occupying force as standing much of a chance. We'd be more trouble than we are worth .

Also there's the whole sexism issue. Why should i be expected to sacrifice my life while strong, independant women get away scot free?

prinz

vinylmesh wrote: »

Also there's the whole sexism issue. Why should i be expected to sacrifice my life while strong, independant women get away scot free?

Girls do it too in most countries.