New Statutory Instruments

4gun

here's a little lighthearted pondering concerning regulation 4 of the secure accomadation SI

if you were a thief would you really want to break into a place if you knew there were at least 6 firearms inside.....

4gun

An old woman in my local town had gotten quite nervous after her husband died and remarked to her nighbour (who was a Guard) that she was thinking of getting a gun
"Not only should you get a gun mam" the Guard replied, but you should come down to your gate every morning and fire a few shots in the air and let every one know you HAVE IT...:D

TRUE STORY

rrpc

DMZ wrote: »

My point is a simple one, there will be an amended SI on restricted firearms and it will issue in the coming weeks, we will see, but it is realistic to be concerned considering the bull that has been floating around for the last couple of months.

Your point is a non-existent one.

I think you said in an earlier post that you were in politics?

It shows

fat-tony

DMZ wrote: »

My point is a simple one, there will be an amended SI on restricted firearms and it will issue in the coming weeks, we will see, but it is realistic to be concerned considering the bull that has been floating around for the last couple of months.

What's with this FUD stuff? Who should be concerned? Why?

ayapatrick

i think this was asked before but im gonna ask again -
is the secure storage document a minimum level required to be issued with your licenses? or are they only guidelines that itd be great if ya had them but if the super seen no bother without them he could at his discretion issue your licenses?

rrpc

ayapatrick wrote: »

i think this was asked before but im gonna ask again -
is the secure storage document a minimum level required to be issued with your licenses? or are they only guidelines that itd be great if ya had them but if the super seen no bother without them he could at his discretion issue your licenses?

I think you should take them as minimum standards. Take for example, level 3 where you have two restricted firearms: That's probably 'OK' with say one pistol and a semi-auto shotgun, but I doubt it would be 'OK' if you had a 45 and a 9mm for instance.

And before somebody jumps in saying they're all as lethal: this would be 'OK' in the view of the Gardai.

Rovi

All of these new Statutory Instruments are also available for download on the NRAI website:
http://www.nrai.ie/

Rovi

ayapatrick wrote: »

is the secure storage document a minimum level required to be issued with your licenses? or are they only guidelines that itd be great if ya had them but if the super seen no bother without them he could at his discretion issue your licenses?

They are laid out in print in a Statutory Instrument, which to my mind makes them 'law' and thus removing 'discretion' from the equation.
That said, lots of 'law' is treated as 'guidelines' by those charged with its implementation, so who knows how it'll work out in the real world.


The level 4 security requirements are going to give rise to some debate, I think:
|Type and number of firearms| Secure accommodation standard
4 |Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place. | In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.
Most of the people to whom this will apply (myself included) already have alarm monitoring, and many of them also have GSM signalling facilities (myself NOT included), but I get the impression that most of those have the GSM stuff set up to contact themselves or other trusted persons, not the alarm monitoring people.

As we have already seen, professional GSM installation/monitoring is far from an inconsequential cost.

I think the SI quoted above can be read a couple of ways though.
It states:

The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

I postulate that the above means that you must have an alarm monitored by a licensed person, with no specific requirements on who monitors the GSM backup.

If the intention was for both the landline AND GSM backup to be monitored by the licensed person, the Statutory Instrument would have stated:

The alarm, supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities, shall be connected to a monitoring service operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority.

Another little nugget for the Commissioner's Guidelines to clarify.

IDon'tKnow!

Just looked this up. The bronze range of Boffalo River safes exceed the BS7588/92 standard.

That is the enter level safe in the Boffalo range so would think the whole range should pass.

http://www.scottcountry.co.uk/products_detail.asp?productID=2725

rrpc

Rovi wrote: »

They are laid out in print in a Statutory Instrument, which to my mind makes them 'law' and thus removing 'discretion' from the equation.

Except that the enabling legislation (Section 4(5) of the Firearms Acts) states:

The Minister, in consultation with the Commissioner, may by regulations provide for minimum standards to be complied with by holders of firearm certificates in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for their firearms.

clivej

Rovi wrote: »

They are laid out in print in a Statutory Instrument, which to my mind .................................

have an alarm monitored by a licensed person, with no specific requirements on who monitors the GSM backup.

If the intention was for both the landline AND GSM backup to be monitored by the licensed person, the Statutory Instrument would have stated:


Another little nugget for the Commissioner's Guidelines to clarify.

Rovi my understanding of the extra GSM equipment is to back up the alarm system as a unit for when the phone line goes down and nothing more than that.

It will stop anyone cuting the phone line outside your house and thereby disabling the moitoring part of the alarm system.

Rew

clivej wrote: »

Rovi my understanding of the extra GSM equipment is to back up the alarm system as a unit for when the phone line goes down and nothing more than that.

It will stop anyone cuting the phone line outside your house and thereby disabling the moitoring part of the alarm system.

Could be the primary line or the backup. I'd go with a GSM as the primary and forget the landline. Doesn't take much skill to cut the phone line but takes more to jam the GSM signal (although not much more these days).

ayapatrick

cheers guys for the answers! like you rovi section 4 is the basis behind my question. fall into that bracket aswel!
anyone know the cost of installing an alarm(the whole kit), having it monitored and connected to the gsm thing?

rrpc

ayapatrick wrote: »

cheers guys for the answers! like you rovi section 4 is the basis behind my question. fall into that bracket aswel!
anyone know the cost of installing an alarm(the whole kit), having it monitored and connected to the gsm thing?

You'd really need to check with an installer. I know mine cost over three grand about three years ago, though it's a fairly extensive system.

I've heard figures of between €1200 and €1800 quoted for the average house.

Rovi

rrpc wrote: »

Except that the enabling legislation (Section 4(5) of the Firearms Acts) states:

The Minister, in consultation with the Commissioner, may by regulations provide for minimum standards to be complied with by holders of firearm certificates in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for their firearms.

Is it not the case that the SI lays out these minimum standards?

Rovi

clivej wrote: »

Rovi my understanding of the extra GSM equipment is to back up the alarm system as a unit for when the phone line goes down and nothing more than that.

It will stop anyone cuting the phone line outside your house and thereby disabling the moitoring part of the alarm system.

I understand what the GSM equipment is for, I'm just pointing out that a professionally installed and monitored GSM link (as appears to be required for level 4 security) is a very considerable extra expense over and above the installation and monitoring by landline of the rest of the alarm system, and that many peoples' 'personally monitored' GSM systems may not be acceptable.

rrpc

Rovi wrote: »

Is it not the case that the SI lays out these minimum standards?

Yes.

which to my mind makes them 'law' and thus removing 'discretion' from the equation.

Except a minimum standard just sets the minimum. It doesn't set a maximum which can still be set at the Superintendent's discretion.

rrpc

Rovi wrote: »

I understand what the GSM equipment is for, I'm just pointing out that a professionally installed and monitored GSM link (as appears to be required for level 4 security) is a very considerable extra expense over and above the installation and monitoring by landline of the rest of the alarm system.

Tell me about it

Darr

Hi guys ,
I was asked if I knew which of the SI's are used in the granting or refusal of restricted firearm , eg is there some SI that states in order to apply for a restricted firearm you must have A,B and C and that in order for it to be refused it must be for reason X , Y , Z .

I dont have a restricted firearm and I dont know the answer to the above so hoping someone here might ..I do share the concern that others here have highlighted that the current going on's certainly wont do any aspect of our sport any good and the person in question just wants to know what he needs to do to meet the LEGAL requirements to hold a restricted FA and what LEGAL grounds it can be refused on .
Thanks
Darr

rrpc

Darr wrote: »

Hi guys ,
I was asked if I knew which of the SI's are used in the granting or refusal of restricted firearm , eg is there some SI that states in order to apply for a restricted firearm you must have A,B and C and that in order for it to be refused it must be for reason X , Y , Z .

I dont have a restricted firearm and I dont know the answer to the above so hoping someone here might ..I do share the concern that others here have highlighted that the current going on's certainly wont do any aspect of our sport any good and the person in question just wants to know what he needs to do to meet the LEGAL requirements to hold a restricted FA and what LEGAL grounds it can be refused on .
Thanks
Darr

Darr, SI's are statutory instruments or orders that the Minister can make in certain circumstances and in limited areas. There is always some part of an Act that gives him the right to make such an order.

The part you are looking for is in the Firearms Acts themselves, the requirement to hold a restricted firearm is pretty much the same as for a non restricted firearm except that the Commissioner decides and you have to prove that the firearm you want the licence for is the only one that will fit the purpose for which it is required.

Conditions for the granting of firearms certificates can be found in section 4 of the Firearms Acts.

Darr

Thanks RRPC , I'll fish that out for him and send it on thanks .
Darr