Richard Dawkins interviews Wendy Wright (anti-evolutionist)

Orizio

Galvasean wrote: »

I think it's reasonably fair. Try watching the full hour of Dawkins versus Lady Gaga and tell me you want to do that.

I'll happily debate with anyone over anything, because debate within itself is a good thing if you enter into with the right attitude, as it helps clarify and improve one's position.

Dawkin's, and other's, positions with this regard stinks of intellectual laziness. Its understandable enough in certain circumstances, but laziness nonetheless.

Sam Vimes

Orizio wrote: »

With respect, thats a terrible attitude for any intellectual to have. Shows a stunning lack of respect for other people's belief's, and doesn't further their or your own intellectual development.

What she has is not a belief, it's wilful ignorance

Galvasean

Orizio wrote: »

Dawkin's, and other's, positions with this regard stinks of intellectual laziness. Its understandable enough in certain circumstances, but laziness nonetheless.

In Dawkins' defense, if you watch the video in the OP he goes through pretty much every young Earth creationist argument (sometimes more than once). After a while it gets repetetive and annoying, a waste of time and energy.
To put it simply they will keep rehashing the same tired old arguments that have been rebutted thousands of times (check out the creationism thread across the way for proof) before. When they come up with a new challenge for evolution I'm sure the likes of Dawkins will gladly discuss it, but until then why wander the road already tread?

Dave!

Orizio wrote: »

I'll happily debate with anyone over anything, because debate within itself is a good thing if you enter into with the right attitude, as it helps clarify and improve one's position.

Dawkin's, and other's, positions with this regard stinks of intellectual laziness. Its understandable enough in certain circumstances, but laziness nonetheless.

The proponents of intelligent design, etc., do not enter into a debate with the right attitude, so why should anyone indulge them? Dawkins repeatedly points out in the video that there are many examples of transitional fossils, and gives the hominid examples. His opponent refuses to acknowledge the points, and employs into all kinds of disgusting tactics to muddy the waters (eg. talking about eugenics, what kind of morality etc comes from Darwinism, and so on, as if any of that has any bearing on its truthfulness) and paint scientists in a particular light.

It's not laziness to refuse to entertain these people. They have a vested interest -- they have fundamentalist Christian views, and they need the world to confirm their beliefs. Therefore they are not seeking the objective truth, they are seeking the Biblical truth. Why would anybody engage with them when they aren't interested in what you have to say?

You say it's understandable in certain circumstances -- what are these?

Galvasean

Just watched the whole thing. Lady Gaga offered absolutely no new points to the proceedings and kept ignoring Dawkins' valid point about the fossils at the museum.
Of course I could listen to Dawkins all day with a voice like that.
He must have the patience of a saint (if you'll pardon the expression).

One thing I noticed in pretty much every young Earth reationist I've seen in such debates; why do they always seem to have a wide eyed, almost glazed over facial expression as their default?

Dades

Orizio wrote: »

Dawkin's, and other's, positions with this regard stinks of intellectual laziness. Its understandable enough in certain circumstances, but laziness nonetheless.

Did you just not watch the video of Dawkins beating his enormous brain against the wall for an hour? What exactly is lazy about that?

Have a read of The Thread in Christianity and see how long your shiny idealism regarding engaging in intellectual debate keeps you going.

Ostrom

Dades wrote: »

Did you just not watch the video of Dawkins beating his enormous brain against the wall for an hour? What exactly is lazy about that?

Have a read of The Thread in Christianity and see how long your shiny idealism regarding engaging in intellectual debate keeps you going.

Laziness - and pure shameless idiot baiting on Dawkins part.

I hadn't seen that thread before, but its comparable. You cant argue with people such as those (guy supporting creationism above, and woman in the video). She cannot accept the validity of his evidence on belief and faith - the argument was over in two minutes.

What did we learn from the video? What was accomplished?

Galvasean

efla wrote: »

What did we learn from the video? What was accomplished?

I'm going to paraphrase the film Thank You For Smoking in saying "It's not you, I'm trying to convince, it's them (the audience)".
Basically, Dawkins is probably fully aware he can never convince such a well entrenched Creationist, but if someone undecided were to view the video chances are they would side with him due to him making a better case.

Ostrom

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm going to paraphrase the film Thank You For Smoking in saying "It's not you, I'm trying to convince, it's them (the audience)".
Basically, Dawkins is probably fully aware he can never convince such a well entrenched Creationist, but if someone undecided were to view the video chances are they would side with him due to him making a better case.

I hope so, but I cant help feeling it was more spectacle than informative

fifth

While I love Dawkins work ,watching his interviews sometimes makes me feel a bit sick, like i'm having years taken off my life, they are so stressful to watch!

Some of these people are real nut jobs.

Sometimes feel like being an Atheist is the biggest of uphill struggles. *sigh*

Dave!

I don't like how he deals with the point of 'a society based on Darwinian principles would be horrible'. He's concedeing that that is the case, and saying he wouldn't like that, but what he should be doing IMO is differentiating scientific theories from social/societal ones. Perhaps facetiously giving an example of a business based on gravitational or atomic theory, to show that it makes no sense. Evolution is a biological theory.

ChocolateSauce

Orizio wrote: »

With respect, thats a terrible attitude for any intellectual to have. Shows a stunning lack of respect for other people's belief's, and doesn't further their or your own intellectual development.

In Dawkins' defense, if you watch the video in the OP he goes through pretty much every young Earth creationist argument (sometimes more than once). After a while it gets repetetive and annoying, a waste of time and energy.

That's the problem; if you debated once, made your points, and got somewhere, it would be worth it, but with people who actually believe things as amazingly ignorant as flat earth and creationism, you can't actually debate with them because no matter how much evidence you show and no matter how good your logic, they won't listen. It is pointless, and when a respected scientist gives time to moronic ideas, it lowers him and his position. And for the record, not only do I not respect such beliefs, I don't think they should be respected; they should be treated with ridicule, incredulity and mockery.

Do not debate with fools lest ye become one.

jill_valentine

Didn't Dawkins himself argue against engaging these folks for exactly that reason? That by affording them the chance to fight their case, it offers them the notion that they've got a case to begin with?

gamgsam

Boooo! Get off the stage!

She doesn't seem to understand what evolution is, I think that's the main problem!

This reminds me of someone I knew, She just kept repeating, show me the evidence show me the evidence... So I did. Threw a load of material together discussing evolution

Did she read it? Of course not!

Zillah

I'm two minutes in and I already hate her. This...is...insufferable.

EDIT 1: No, I'm done. Let's have some of Dawkins' critics describe him as brash or rude after watching this. I'd have been screaming at her in disbelief. The moment at which I gave up was when he once again told her about the different ancestors of modern humans after she demanded the intermediate examples...and her response was to ignore him and try to talk about what 'evolution has spawned'.

Ahahaha.
Dawkins: I...confess to being frustrated...

Edit 2: Ok I kept watching. She just used the expression "People use their critical factories".

Edit 3: Apparently this is turning into a running commentary.

Wendy: So if there is evidence for inter-species evolution it would convince us!
Dawkins: *explains that there are examples of evolution from fish to land animals, and evolution from reptiles to mammals, especially in the jaw bones, the extra bones from the reptile ending up in the mammalian ear*
Wendy: So what is your cause in life?

Naz_st

I had to stop watching after 15 minutes or so. Couldn't take the frustration and constant facepalm. I think it was after an exchange along the lines:

Dawkins: "So then, what are your scientific qualifications?"
Wendy: "Well, that's the thing [aka 'I have none']... It's unfair that only scientists get to decide what's scientific and only they get to teach science."

Unfair? Yes Wendy, it's a big conspiracy where scientists only allow other scientists to do science stuff. And the fact that science is only taught by people who know stuff about science is just crazy!

Fookin' idiot.

Galvasean

Naz_st wrote: »

Unfair? Yes Wendy, it's a big conspiracy where scientists only allow other scientists to do science stuff. And the fact that science is only taught by people who know stuff about science is just crazy!

I wanna be a plastic surgeon but cant because DA MAN says I need to get qualifications first. BOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Notice how she kept saying 'crea-THOR' a freudian slip? :pac:

Zombrex

Naz_st wrote: »

Fookin' idiot.

Hardly surprising, this is the woman who thinks that planned parenthood clinics try to convince women to not use contraception so that they have abortions and abortion doctors get rich.

Genghiz Cohen

Wicknight wrote: »

Hardly surprising, this is the woman who thinks that planned parenthood clinics try to convince women to not use contraception so that they have abortions and abortion doctors get rich.

Sam Vimes

hotlinking fail :P

It's a conspiracy against you

Zillah

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

It's true you know.

maskofsanity

Teary eyed face palm followed by lunch in reverse...... and thats just the first part....

Genghiz Cohen

Sam Vimes wrote: »

hotlinking fail :P

It's a conspiracy against you

Works fine for me...
Maybe if I cared Id clear my cache.... maybe...

pts

On a related note:
Richard Dawkins interviews creationist John Mackay

Not recommend for pregnant women or people with high blood pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJofLHbqqbM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L1OvdY2BQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qimCXrdHcrI

For more fun see his website.

rockmongrel

Good grief, did woman get hit in the head or something?

I love the argument she makes that only scientists get to talk about science and that's unfair, yet one of the biggest criticisms of The God Delusion was the fact he didn't have a religious education.

Sam Vimes

rockmongrel wrote: »

Good grief, did woman get hit in the head or something?

I love the argument she makes that only scientists get to talk about science and that's unfair, yet one of the biggest criticisms of The God Delusion was the fact he didn't have a religious education.

That is unfair though, just like it's unfair that only pilots get to fly planes

stevejazzx

pts wrote: »

On a related note:
Richard Dawkins interviews creationist John Mackay

Not recommend for pregnant women or people with high blood pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJofLHbqqbM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L1OvdY2BQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qimCXrdHcrI

For more fun see his website.

Ok people stop this now. Robin lock it up!:) I couldn't stop watching it... like a very very bad car accident.

kenon

I watched the two sets of videos posted in this thread and Dawkins' patience never fails to impress me.

Here is another example (most like posted before)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ

Daftendirekt

I always thought Dawkins didn't debate creationists?

dvpower

pts wrote: »

On a related note:
Richard Dawkins interviews creationist John Mackay

...
...

For more fun see his website.

Apparently, you can buy dinosaur sh1te from his online shop.

Appropriate.