PRSI Dental Benefit abolished in budget, medical card also cut.

georgieporgy

tommy21 wrote: »

Dpes anyone know if you qualify for this while on social welfare? I have been on JSBenefit for 3 months (so had enough PRSI contributions to qualify for that). Would it be a similar case here?

If so, is it as easy as me either ringing my dentist in the morning (assuming he is open), asking them then and there to check if I qualify (though I'm assuming dole offices closed now) or finding one who does?

I think I'm too late, but say even if I did it between now and 31st would I qualify?

Many thanks

You have to actually go to the dentist ,get a check up and have a treatment plan outlined. The dentist then has to fax or mail that treatment plan the the PRSI people prior to 31 Dec. The work ,if approved, should then be completed within 90 days.
You may be lucky but it's a bit late. On the plus side it would be good to remember that PRSI never did contribute much towards dental treatment anyway. It more or less contributed 33euro towards each item of treatment.

c0ldfyr3

georgieporgy wrote: »

On the plus side it would be good to remember that PRSI never did contribute much towards dental treatment anyway. It more or less contributed 33euro towards each item of treatment.

Only €33? Well gee now I don't care at all at all o.O [/sarcasm]

I'd dispute that figure though - the difference in cost in some visits for me was over €100. In one sitting they may do 3/4 procedures. I don't see any silver lining on this cloud!!

lizzie09

Unfortunately I missed out here also

I made my dental ap with my regular dentist on 22 Dec
My ap was for 7 jAN..... pity receptionist didn't try to advice me
to get in a bit sooner and have the plan drawn up.

i know its not quite their job but i think I might have adviced people
to get in quick......check up is quick

c0ldfyr3

lizzie09 wrote: »

Unfortunately I missed out here also

I made my dental ap with my regular dentist on 22 Dec
My ap was for 7 jAN..... pity receptionist didn't try to advice me
to get in a bit sooner and have the plan drawn up.

i know its not quite their job but i think I might have adviced people
to get in quick......check up is quick

I think you should talk to your dentist. I was supposed to visit mine on 31/12/2009 and I couldn't make it, when I visited on 06/01 he told me I had one more visit to make which I could within the next three months and he'd do the paperwork. I think the deadline for the paperwork was not 31/12 and you are indeed entitled to PRSI for that visit on 07/01.

georgieporgy

cOldfyr, it sounds like you had already started your course of treatment in 2009 and needed 1 more appt to finish your treatment? So the dentist had till end of March to complete it.

But lizzie didn't go for her check up till Jan 2010. Too late! Remember the exam had to be done, a form filled out and sent to the prsi people in Letterkenny for them to review and approve it prior to end of Dec 2009. (ie, it had to arrive and be approved in letterkenny prior to Dec31)

To compound the issue, many dental offices would have planned to close between Christmas and New Year (plus the very bad weather we had) so everybody was caught unawares by this change in legislation.

lizzie09

Yes this is how i missed out as there was no AP before Christmas. there only was a couple of days left so I got the Jan AP ....if I had been quick enough to ask I might have been fitted in. It is such a pity but I best
get over it!

irishpancake

the title of this thread states:

PRSI Dental Benefit abolished in budget, medical card also cut.

The emphasis is mine.

Can I ask, as I can find nothing in the thread relating to Medical Card Dental Benefits, what precisely has been cut for Medical Card holders?

Does anyone know, or was this just added for effect?

ballsymchugh

irishpancake wrote: »

the title of this thread states:

PRSI Dental Benefit abolished in budget, medical card also cut.

The emphasis is mine.

Can I ask, as I can find nothing in the thread relating to Medical Card Dental Benefits, what precisely has been cut for Medical Card holders?

Does anyone know, or was this just added for effect?

the available budget was scaled back to 2007 levels i think. it means that if you require treatment that may need prior approval eg. crowns, large x-rays, dentures, root fillings etc that there's a greater chance that they won't be approved.

georgieporgy

I think it's 2008 level? not that that differs much from the 2007 budget.

however as there are a lot more people on med cards now (newly unemployed) that budget will be all used up well before year end.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

about 400,000 more medical cards I think than in 2008 but with the same budget.

day dreamer

The HSE has not said how much the budget for the DTSS/medical card scheme will be cut by as of yet. A statement should be released shortly.


The chances are it will be similar to cuts on PRSI.DTBS

dr.fuzzenstein

What gets me is that for years the Irish had to fight the image of toothless simpletons abroad.
Now we finally fit that image, thanks to government policy!
I'll be in the pub munching peanuts with my last remaining tooth, guzzling pints of Guiness and slurring "Ah, begosh, begorrah, grand day out now, isn't she the finest, give us a pint there paddy!" at tourists.
I'll make sure to dress and smell like Father Jack while I'm at it.
Since it seems that that is what the government is aiming for.
Caring for your health as long as you got the wealth, anyone else can kindly fcuk off.
Probably best to get fired, sign on, have 17 children and start the auld "where's my benefits" wail.
Live off the state, or have the state suck you dry for no benefits whatsoever?
No thanks.
There should be a giant rally where everyone blackens their teeth and dresses like Father Jack.
Down with that sort of things you fat, overpaid, lazy, stupid, ignorant, elitist cnuts in government.

Need2Know4Sure

Sorry couldnt find the answer to this so ill ask here.

Sine PRSI changes whats the average/standard fee for just a checkup at the dentist?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Check up still free ONCE a year under the PRSI. That is the only thing that the PRSI covers.

Need2Know4Sure

Terrence Delightful Souvenir wrote: »

Check up still free ONCE a year.

Does a check up mean a clean or just an actual look to see if there are any issues?

thanks

dr.fuzzenstein

It means this.

Little Miss Cutie

Does anyone know how much a "clean" would cost on average?

georgieporgy

70 - 100 euro unless you have gum disease and need something more involved.

pgor

check around, a cleaning in my area costs €30-40.:)

DaveTwenty7

€30-40 in mya area for a clean (unless gum disease issues)

Big_G

Just in- cuts to medical card scheme:
main points;

1 max 2 fillings per year, anything after that will have to be approved by principal of hse in emergency situations
2 first stage endodontic treatment only (relief of pain), 2nd stage for approval in emergency only (no real change there)
3 Denture repairs only in emergency
4 Cleaning suspended, periodontal treatment suspended, except for medical necessity
5 New dentures suspended

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Holy crap, thats pretty bad, just read the contract there now. Bad news.

DaveTwenty7

Anyone know when the Medical card cuts come into play?

digzy

We rang earlier. Apparrently there's some discussions taking place.We were told that we can treat as normal but that we'll be informed in the next few days about an implementation date.

day dreamer

The usual excellent communication from the HSE, patients should be up in arms about this!

Where has the outcry after the PRSI cutbacks gone! We need as much support form the public as possible about these issues!

ballsymchugh

it'll be interesting to see if ms harney gets re-elected in the med card heavy area of clondalkin. there is no pun intended there.
but does anyone know what the ida are for?? the new contract in the uk was more or less steam rollered through there in 2006 and the bda were almost as bad. granted, there was still plenty of freedom to work on the nhs contract.
ps. if anyone wants a job in the uk, pm me!!

digzy

i couldn't agree more! with the exception of organising CPE, social gatherings and the odd mag, I would love to know whats the point of shelling out the subs to the IDA. Other groups in society appear well served be their reps. Ours just appears full of hot air. previous attempts at 'action' over the years completely fizzled out. they never give direction only the usual 'everyone must make their own decision' waffle.

The most severe consequensces of these cuts are to the most vulnerable patients:mad:. Associates are going to feel the strain along with those in less well-heeled parts of the country.

I'm amazed at how GP care has no dissruption to service. Ah well, at least all those scumbags we see in the media-drug dealers,rapists etc will still get their free legal aid, while law abiding citizens can jump off a cliff.

Hopefully colleagues and patients will use their vote at the next election. it's the only way our voice will be heard-we'll be waiting for the IDA.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Lets not forget that powerful lobby group the over 70'smedical card patient. It seems the government back down and gave them the card, only to remove all the benefits of a medical card afterwards.

Viva la revolution

Davindra

This is bad...just checking in here because a friend in Clare has a long awaited appointment tomorrow for some serious work and dental surgery just called him.

They seem to think it is implemented from midnight tonight and ALL work, except severe emergencies, must be approved.

If anyone can correct that please do so.

Ok, I have been known to rack up two fillings in a WEEK but still, I cannot BELIEVE anyone saw any kind of logic in suspending new dentures...people without teeth actually NEED those, and they aren't the most expensive item on earth.

Somebody HAS to be planning some kind of protest? This is just cruel.

Also, dare I say it, the dentists down here need work just as badly as anyone in the motor industry.

day dreamer

Checked with the IDA and according their site, the PCRS, the body that pays dentists for working for the HSE, says the new rules come in today.

It is outrageous that the HSE bring in a new scheme with no notification. Remember there is an existing contract in place, many IDA members are saying they will stick to the terms of this

It is those who have recently lost jobs and maybe received a medical card for the first time that will suffer most, people that have worked all their lives and paid tax and now when they need a little back have it taken away.

Stark

day dreamer wrote: »

It is those who have recently lost jobs and maybe received a medical card for the first time that will suffer most, people that have worked all their lives and paid tax and now when they need a little back have it taken away.

They don't get a medical card anyway as far as I'm aware. You have to be unemployed for at least 15 months before getting one.

lizzie09

Joe Duffy show talking about this topic now HSE wont come on line.

day dreamer

Lizzie thanks for the heads up on that.

I though Paddy did really well, also Maurice Quirke was on News at One. Can listen back on RTE website. The dark ages are here for state funded dentistry

Davindra

Stark wrote: »

They don't get a medical card anyway as far as I'm aware. You have to be unemployed for at least 15 months before getting one.

I think you are mistaken there, you get the card if your income is soley derived from state benefits, there is no waiting period. You may be mixing it up with Medicaid in the states which does seem to have a waiting period over over a year:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/health/entitlement-to-health-services/medical_card

foret

When does the previous contract with HSE for mc patients end?
Some say from the 29th of April on but could anyone clarify?

It will be interesting interpretating " emergency" treatment. Was HSE letter drafted by office staff or principle dentists?

Anyway is all a royal balls-up .

Communication is difficult enought but the confusion about allowed treatment is further hassle.

Strange days ahead.

Not least for a patient with a mouthfull of problems and limited resources.

Putting oral health on the long finger... Q; How many patients will be needed to clog up A&E wards before this is seen as retrograde and an almost victorian approach to patients?

As a nation we need to learn the hard way.Unfortunately patients will learn in a more direct painful way.
The populace need to understand the patients will in the long term suffer and have misshapen mouths.

Rant, rant.




Media spin all important methinks.

ballsymchugh

i'm just listening to liveline on the rte website now. slightly off topic, but people are talking about laser eye surgery and spending 3-4k on it. then joe said next we'll have a man on who got it done in turkey for 700 euro! thems feckin opthalmic surgeons.
the med card comes up an hour into the show.

BryanL

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i'm just listening to liveline on the rte website now. slightly off topic, but people are talking about laser eye surgery and spending 3-4k on it. then joe said next we'll have a man on who got it done in turkey for 700 euro! thems feckin opthalmic surgeons.
the med card comes up an hour into the show.

I wonder if Joe will have one of the large employers like, DELL, on to say they get it done cheaper in Poland or Turkey. We could probably get a cheaper radio presenter in turkey?
Bryan

Davindra

For anyone in an alarming situation today I am told the current situation is a complete backtrack - no change at the moment - continue to treat as normal - that is fairly reliable, but not first hand from the HSE.

To be crystal clear:
This only applies, so far, in cases where treatment has been booked from an earlier consultation.

DaveTwenty7

We rang the HSE office in Navan today and were told only forms processed by 28yh April will be paid. Ones not opened even dated before this will not be processed :eek::mad::mad::mad:

Davindra

DaveTwenty7 wrote: »

We rang the HSE office in Navan today and were told only forms processed by 28yh April will be paid. Ones not opened even dated before this will not be processed :eek::mad::mad::mad:

Now THAT is just plain WRONG.:eek::eek: (as if anything about the rest is right :rolleyes:)

I thought we left all that "come day, go day" approach to regulation behind when we developed "zero tolerance" for speeding?

day dreamer

For any dentists , are you following IDA advice by treating patients as normal. I dont see how you can given that it may take months to sort out. What do you think will come of the High Court challenge?

It would be great if any patients who are affected by this appaling decision or those who are concerned for the health of the most vulnerable to make their feelings known to their TD's and councillors

Davindra

I think people DO need to stand up and protest this to their TDs.

My gut feeling is that the HSE announced the most destructive, draconian cuts they could think of in the hope that protest would lead to increasing their budget.

I cannot get my head around cancelling dentures. Do we really want to humiliate our elderly people to that extent? Or anyone else for that matter who has the misfortune to have problems that require dentures (I know 3 different people who had full dentures before they were 30 due to gum disease).

As things stand medical card holders only have two options available:

• The HSE pays for it
• Cash

Option number two is often an impossibilty for medical card holders, even for essential treatments (like, for example, full dentures - sorry but that REALLY infuriates me!).

There should be other options, and I have given this a lot of thought. Surely it would be better to charge medical card holders small, realistically affordable set fees for treatment, like e20 for a filling and subsidise the rest, so that medical card holders, and dentists, at least have rational, ethical options within a reduced budget? Or even for the HSE to offer an "opt in" dental insurance type scheme for medical card holders? Or perhaps for VHI Dentcare be subsidised to expand into this area? (I don't think medical card holders could realistically pay for cover AND cover the existing percentages and waiting periods).

ballsymchugh

from the IDA circular a couple of days ago.

5th May 2010
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (SF Cavan Monaghan): Pending the response the Taoiseach will give, I shall reserve accepting the Order Paper because a very serious matter has been unfolding over recent days following a decision of the Minister for Health and Children and the HSE. Almost all dental treatment under the medical card scheme has been withdrawn.

In the preparation of the schedule for business tomorrow, will the Taoiseach request the Minister to come before the House and address the very serious matter contained in the circular issued to all dentists by the HSE, which states that only emergencies will now be dealt with? I have no doubt that I am not unique among Deputies in having constituents contact my office, reflecting on their experience, including in the case of one woman a very serious matter of five dentists refusing to treat her particular dental needs as a medical cardholder. It is not on.
These things are happening all the time without any address or scrutiny in this House. Will the Taoiseach invite or instruct the Minister for Health and Children to come before the House to address this matter that is having serious consequences for medical cardholders and the most marginalised and dependent in our society?
An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy will need to raise it at a different time.


6th May 2010
Deputy Ó Caoláin: Regarding a matter I raised yesterday, in the terrible throes of the continuing stripping of services within the broad HSE remit

---

An Ceann Comhairle: This is not appropriate on the Order of Business. I can anticipate what the Deputy is going to say and I know it is out of order on the Order of Business.

Deputy Ó Caoláin: The Minister for Health and Children has not been seen in this House this week. This is hugely important, the continued erosion of the entitlement to health care access of people on medical cards, and I make no apology repeating the point today that there is collective Cabinet responsibility to make that Minister accountable to this House.

Dental services for public patients have been cancelled across the board today and yesterday. It is affecting the Ceann Comhairle's own constituents.
An Ceann Comhairle: I am aware of that.
Deputy Ó Caoláin: Now we see a further announcement that 52 beds will be shut in Beaumont Hospital.
An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should put a question to the Minister for Health and Children, this is the Order of Business.
Deputy Ó Caoláin: This is happening and there is no accountability in this House whatsoever. Does the Ceann Comhairle have any idea where the Minister for Health and Children is?
An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must resume his seat.
Deputy Ó Caoláin: I will resume my seat but I am making it clear that this Government cannot continue to hide behind the apron of the former leader of the Progressive Democrats, now an Independent Member, and dodge the responsibility of the continued diminution of health services, which rests with the Tánaiste's own party, with Fianna Fáil.


6th May 2010
Deputy Jan O’Sullivan (Lab. Limerick East): I raised the eligibility Bill yesterday in respect of the erosion of rights of people to dental treatment. They have a right to this. It is the same issue as

---

An Ceann Comhairle: I do not contemplate having a full-scale debate on these issues every morning on the Order of Business.
Deputy O’Sullivan: The rights of people for health services have been eroded completely by the current Minister.
An Ceann Comhairle: There are several other ways to raise the matter and the Deputy knows this.
Deputy O’Sullivan: There is a Bill on the Order Paper and some way off, in the distant future, we will ask

---

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy, please resume your seat.
Deputy O’Sullivan:

---

why people’s rights are being eroded.
An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should resume her seat and raise the matter with the Minister for Health and Children.
Deputy O’Sullivan: I ask that the Minister come into the House to talk to Opposition spokespersons because we are increasingly frustrated. We cannot get what we need in our health services.
An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy must resume her seat or I shall adjourn the House because we cannot have this level of disorder every morning.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan (FG Kildare North): I support my colleagues on that issue. Can it be arranged for the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, to appear in the House occasionally for the Order of Business so that Members could address those issues?
Deputy Joan Burton (Lab. Dublin West): Ministers are visitors, like swallows.
An Ceann Comhairle: It is not allowed to ask questions of the Minister for Health and Children on the Order of Business. Let us not think of that as a solution.
Deputy Durkan: I ask the Ceann Comhairle if it might be possible to make an appointment with her?
An Ceann Comhairle: There can be parliamentary questions for the Minister for Health and Children.
Deputies: She never answers them.
Deputy Durkan: The delivery of health and social services legislation is a matter I have raised, as has every other Member on the Opposition benches in recent months, with as much success as we have in changing the weather. We now must appeal to the Ceann Comhairle to use his influence, as president of this Chamber, to try to ensure that a number of Ministers, who are particularly recalcitrant, come into the House and address the issues they are supposed to address./QUOTE]

i agree with kent brockman. democracy just doesn't work.

Davindra

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i agree with kent brockman. democracy just doesn't work.

I suppose a Dental junta would be out of the question?

Seriously, this really IS disgraceful.

ballsymchugh

Davindra wrote: »

I suppose a Dental junta would be out of the question?

Seriously, this really IS disgraceful.

i call King.

electron

so how exactly was the medical card cut?

yobr

Davindra wrote: »

I suppose a Dental junta would be out of the question?

Seriously, this really IS disgraceful.

Not nearly as disgraceful as the 177% increase in dental inflation outlined in the Competition Authority report in October, 2007.

cjdj30

i have been attending the dentist over the past few weeks and was told i needed all my top teeth removed due to gum disese:eek:,and the only option avalible to me was a denture as i'm a med card holder,(implants a distant dream!) it was very tramatic to hear i'd have to ware a denture since i'm only 30, but seriously nearly equally so to hear that he could make me a denture to put in on the day i have my teeth removed and charge me 400 euro, but due to swelling i would need to go back in 6 weeks to have another one made at a cost of another 400 euro:eek:.i had to borrow the first 400 from a loan company,and now hav 5 weeks to find the other 400, plus now i have another 30euro repayment ontop of all my other weekly outgoings:mad:, seriously dose our goverment not see there only aiding people get further onto debth by taken away basic human nesessitiys like med card dental card, it's not like it's a luxury,cause believe me at 30 havin to wear a denture is anything but:(

dr.fuzzenstein

cjdj30 wrote: »

i have been attending the dentist over the past few weeks and was told i needed all my top teeth removed due to gum disese:eek:,and the only option avalible to me was a denture as i'm a med card holder,(implants a distant dream!) it was very tramatic to hear i'd have to ware a denture since i'm only 30, but seriously nearly equally so to hear that he could make me a denture to put in on the day i have my teeth removed and charge me 400 euro, but due to swelling i would need to go back in 6 weeks to have another one made at a cost of another 400 euro:eek:.i had to borrow the first 400 from a loan company,and now hav 5 weeks to find the other 400, plus now i have another 30euro repayment ontop of all my other weekly outgoings:mad:, seriously dose our goverment not see there only aiding people get further onto debth by taken away basic human nesessitiys like med card dental card, it's not like it's a luxury,cause believe me at 30 havin to wear a denture is anything but:(

Sadly that fat cnut Mary Harney won't care since she is sorted and everyone else can just go fcuk themselves.

Babybass

I am in a similar situation - I have a lot of dental work to get done and have been putting it off for years as I am terrified of going to the dentist. I lost my job and now have a medical card and my teeth are actually causing my real distress - they aren't hurting but I am really paranoid about them and it stops me from doing things so I have decided that I must get them done. I have an appointment tomorrow to go to the dentist but was told that only my check-up would be covered and maybe a filling. It is going to cost me 600 + I would imagine to get everything done and I have no idea how I will afford it. At the moment I am terrified of going to the dentist but knowing that when she tells me what I need done and how much it costs that I will have to tell her I cannot afford it is really getting to me - I am embarrassed enough that I haven't been in years and now I will be embarrassed because I cannot get what I need done done. I may have to go to a loan company and try to borrow it - it is the only option. Knowing that I will have such financial pressure is making the whole situation worse and I am almost ready to ring and cancel my appointment. I am almost convincing myself that I don't need to smile, or talk to people or even get close to my husband ever again so I can live with my teeth!!!