Parking ticket in the north on republic car

mcwhirter

If you get a parking ticket in the north on a republic registered car, does it have to be paid.
And vice versa, northern registered cars obtaining parking tickets/m50 toll etc in the republic?

Dartz

According to the law, yes....

Unfortunately, according to the rules, we're not allowed to say that they probably won't pursue the ticket across the border anyway, and that you can happily ignore the buggers because they can't touch your license.... and vice versa.

....oops

Savage Tyrant

It should also be noted, that legally, should you return to the six counties and be pulled over again by the PSNI, they could arrest you for non-payment of outstanding fines. Unlikely but certainly possible.

c4cat

Dartz wrote: »

According to the law, yes....

Unfortunately, according to the rules, we're not allowed to say that they probably won't pursue the ticket across the border anyway, and that you can happily ignore the buggers because they can't touch your license.... and vice versa.

....oops

If you ignore it, then it becomes a civel matter, they will add charges to unpaid tickets for letters they send you, then they add soliciters fees and after that bailiff's fees. Your ticket will end up in the hundreds of euros, then it will be sold to a debt collection agency for what was the original fine, who will then stack up some more charges and chase you for a couple of thousand euros. If they find out that you own property they will put a lien on your property which will attract interest until its paid. the lien will have to be cleared on eventual sale of your property.

timmywex

c4cat wrote: »

If you ignore it, then it becomes a civel matter, they will add charges to unpaid tickets for letters they send you, then they add soliciters fees and after that bailiff's fees. Your ticket will end up in the hundreds of euros, then it will be sold to a debt collection agency for what was the original fine, who will then stack up some more charges and chase you for a couple of thousand euros. If they find out that you own property they will put a lien on your property which will attract interest until its paid. the lien will have to be cleared on eventual sale of your property.

They propably wont be able to get the op's address....

Chopper888

I'd say your save enough. When Northern Ireland registered cars get parking tickets in Ireland , you never hear anymore about it when you don't pay it.

GAAman

Working backwards from me living up here, i know that if you were from up here and the gardai caught you speeding/parking where you shouldnt they CAN give you a fine but not penalty points so surely there must be something in place whereby information is shared between forces

Shield

mcwhirter wrote: »

If you get a parking ticket in the north on a republic registered car, does it have to be paid.
And vice versa, northern registered cars obtaining parking tickets/m50 toll etc in the republic?

Yes you have to pay it, but parking enforcement is not a police matter anymore, so not paying won't affect your licence.

slimjimmc

c4cat wrote: »

If you ignore it, then it becomes a civel matter, they will add charges to unpaid tickets for letters they send you, then they add soliciters fees and after that bailiff's fees. Your ticket will end up in the hundreds of euros, then it will be sold to a debt collection agency for what was the original fine, who will then stack up some more charges and chase you for a couple of thousand euros. If they find out that you own property they will put a lien on your property which will attract interest until its paid. the lien will have to be cleared on eventual sale of your property.

I find it hard to believe that they can and will put a lien on foreign property owned by a visitor for any fixed penalty notice. Can you link to a source that might convince me please.

GAAman wrote: »

Working backwards from me living up here, i know that if you were from up here and the gardai caught you speeding/parking where you shouldnt they CAN give you a fine but not penalty points so surely there must be something in place whereby information is shared between forces

I seriously doubt there is any cross-border data exchange for minor traffic offences. They can give you a penalty notice but, unless you were stopped and provided your address, how can the authorites identify you from your reg in order to enforce it? Same with French, German, etc

Slidey

I know the Gardai in Sligo regularly ring Enniskillen for details on northern reg cars if they want to find out details on it, so I am sure that the agreement is reciprocal

ardmacha

When Northern Ireland registered cars get parking tickets in Ireland , you never hear anymore about it when you don't pay it

.

Not true, if they get the ticket in the Northern part of Ireland they can end up in court. If they get the ticket in the 26 counties it can be passed on to debt collectors, who add their charges to the amount outstanding and seek a judgement in court. Now for a single ticket nobody may bother but some NI folk who were in habit of routinely parking in Dundalk and throwing away the tickets were slightly distressed when a bill for several thousand arrived from the debt collectors.

There is EU provision for the exchange of registration details for motoring offences.

mcwhirter

Slidey wrote: »

I know the Gardai in Sligo regularly ring Enniskillen for details on northern reg cars if they want to find out details on it, so I am sure that the agreement is reciprocal

I found this on the citizens advice site. Surely what your stating has not been fully agreed by the countries yet.


Penalty points obtained in other jurisdictions

A Convention of Driving Disqualification was adopted by EU Member States in 1998. Ireland's Road Traffic Act 2002 provides a framework for implementing the Convention. Section 9 is designed to facilitate the entry into force of the framework for bilateral co-operation with other EU Member States in applying driving disqualifications for a number of serious road traffic offences committed in another Member State.
Mutual recognition of penalty points between the UK, Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man already exists. The Government and British-Irish Council are currently examining the recognition of penalty points between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The Attorney General is currently examining the complex legal issues involved.

slimjimmc

Slidey wrote: »

I know the Gardai in Sligo regularly ring Enniskillen for details on northern reg cars if they want to find out details on it, so I am sure that the agreement is reciprocal

I doubt they're doing that for minor traffic offences though, more like they're checking is the car stolen or is the driver insured or wanted.

Slidey

Probably right, but I was just pointing out that details are shared if they want them.

ardmacha

These people will chase after you
http://www.epcplc.com/

slimjimmc

Slidey wrote: »

Probably right, but I was just pointing out that details are shared if they want them.

Yes but which details? The Gardaí or PSNI may be able call each other to verify if information given is correct (a simple true/false answer) but can they readily obtain actual names and addresses? I don't know.

How do the toll operators do it I wonder.

L1011

Don't Dundalk town and Newry & Mourne district councils 'swap' their out of jurisdiction parking fines with each other these days? Presume the same is done elsewhere too...

Gallant_JJ

mcwhirter wrote: »

If you get a parking ticket in the north on a republic registered car, does it have to be paid.
And vice versa, northern registered cars obtaining parking tickets/m50 toll etc in the republic?

Your safe enough. Myself and another few lads have been driving southern reg cars up north for 4 years while in college. Parked daily in the heart of the city centre and got a ticket daily. Have at least a few hundred at this stage. Never heard a dicky bird.

greeno

Got one in Derry about 4 years ago. Never heard no word about it since. Don't pay it

ardmacha

Never heard a dicky bird.

But if (when) they do hand them over to a debt collector you'll owe thousands, well worth the debt collector following up, I would have thought. Interesting risk to take, this could banjax your credit scoring for life.

That said the bureaucracy in the North seem to have been less on the ball on this one than in the other direction.

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=75580
http://www.iicm.ie/news_37.shtml
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Euro-tourists39-1m-parking-fines.4919279.jp

Carawaystick

How would a debt collection agency legally obtain the information?
info could be shared legally for a criminal offense but I doubt it for a civil matter, without getting court approval for xfer of the data to a private company in a foreign country....

Also change of ownership of the car would stop the trail if you don't mind an extra registered owner....

miju

alls I'm gonna say is I got a £60 ticket last year. realised they cant check our vehicle database and didnt pay it and have heard nothing since

Shield

This isn't a police matter! We don't get involved in parking contraventions, even if the person doesnt pay the fine. Parking offences were decriminalised years ago. It's purely a civil matter nowadays.

c4cat

Chopper888 wrote: »

I'd say your save enough. When Northern Ireland registered cars get parking tickets in Ireland , you never hear anymore about it when you don't pay it.

Wrong, I have had letters on a UK car for parking tkts in ROI

c4cat

slimjimmc wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that they can and will put a lien on foreign property owned by a visitor for any fixed penalty notice. Can you link to a source that might convince me please.


I seriously doubt there is any cross-border data exchange for minor traffic offences. They can give you a penalty notice but, unless you were stopped and provided your address, how can the authorites identify you from your reg in order to enforce it? Same with French, German, etc

There is if you are driving a UK reg car, some UK debt collection agencies have access to UK DVLA data (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article551927.ece ) I know from personal experience and believe me the UK debt collection system is such that admin charges will be added to any debt as time goes by without it getting paid. If you just ignore the debt, the debt reaches the point of it being worth enforcing a collection, so if you ignored it to this point they will just collect by lifting your car or putting a lien on your property that you own via a debt collection agency's solicitor. In the UK to put a lien on a property they have to get a County Court Judgement (CCJ) to create a lein on your property. If you do not challange the debt then a ccj will be given.

slimjimmc

c4cat wrote: »

There is if you are driving a UK reg car, some UK debt collection agencies have access to UK DVLA data (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article551927.ece ) I know from personal experience and believe me the UK debt collection system is such that admin charges will be added to any debt as time goes by without it getting paid. If you just ignore the debt, the debt reaches the point of it being worth enforcing a collection, so if you ignored it to this point they will just collect by lifting your car or putting a lien on your property that you own via a debt collection agency's solicitor. In the UK to put a lien on a property they have to get a County Court Judgement (CCJ) to create a lein on your property. If you do not challange the debt then a ccj will be given.

Thanks, but as you said you need to be driving a UK reg. For an Irish reg I believe the story is different. AFAIK nobody outside Ireland can access our database and the only non-gov agency allowed access are the Irish-based toll operators, which makes it virtually impossible for a foreign entity to identify the registered keeper.

If they do manage to id you I think the process of collecting payment is a bit more difficult here, for example debt collectors have absolutely no authority to seize property here, only a Sherriff with a court order. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to get that order or an order for a lien.

mick.fr

Just be a man, assume your faults, pay your ticket (Unless it was not legit, in that case challenge it), whichever country it was.

End of story

c4cat

slimjimmc wrote: »

Thanks, but as you said you need to be driving a UK reg. For an Irish reg I believe the story is different. AFAIK nobody outside Ireland can access our database and the only non-gov agency allowed access are the Irish-based toll operators, which makes it virtually impossible for a foreign entity to identify the registered keeper.

If they do manage to id you I think the process of collecting payment is a bit more difficult here, for example debt collectors have absolutely no authority to seize property here, only a Sherriff with a court order. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to get that order or an order for a lien.

At the moment it is the case that the Irish vehicle owners database is not available, but its only a matter of time before it will be. So all those tickets issued up in the north on Irish vehicles are just sitting in a pile waiting to be collected on as soon as access to the Irish database becomes available

ardmacha

If they do manage to id you I think the process of collecting payment is a bit more difficult here, for example debt collectors have absolutely no authority to seize property here, only a Sherriff with a court order.

Discussion of how to evade debts is all well and good, but if you are doing this then you are cut off from regular banking and credit facilities. There are people being crucified by over the odds mortgages etc because of paying fast and loose with debts at an earlier stage. A very high price to pay for cheap parking.

mcwhirter

I decided to pay £30 fine after all. On the internet site where you pay there were 5 pictures of my car and its surroundings.
I spend quite a bit of time in the north so didn't want this one to follow me if I was fined again or randomly stopped by police etc.
I believe bad karma follows you.

getz

parking in the UK and northern ireland is only a civil offence,private companies have to have a licence to get your data from the dvla,only the police have a right of access for this information[remember this could be used for terrorist activities] i picked up a parking ticket in kilkenny two years ago on a UK licence ,as it said on the ticket ;you do not need to do anything untill we get in touch with you,,i am still waiting

Cookie_Monster

mcwhirter wrote: »

I decided to pay £30 fine after all. On the internet site where you pay there were 5 pictures of my car and its surroundings.
I spend quite a bit of time in the north so didn't want this one to follow me if I was fined again or randomly stopped by police etc.
I believe bad karma follows you.

Good job, for the sake of £30 is not worth the hassel, it's less than the cost of a night out sure...

Capt'n Midnight

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

It should also be noted, that legally, should you return to the six counties and be pulled over again by the PSNI, they could arrest you for non-payment of outstanding fines. Unlikely but certainly possible.

Do they crush cars yet for parking fines ?

"Your car is illegally parked. It will be towed in 15 minutes.
Your car has been towed.
Your car has been crushed into a cube.
You have 15 minutes to move your cube."

HPT

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

Your safe enough. Myself and another few lads have been driving southern reg cars up north for 4 years while in college. Parked daily in the heart of the city centre and got a ticket daily. Have at least a few hundred at this stage. Never heard a dicky bird.

My friend was working in the city centre in Belfast for a year. He used to park on a pedestrian street and got a ticket almost every time. He didn't pay them and hasn't heard a thing. It's around a year since he moved back here.

He often stuck the tickets on our cars when he came home! :eek:

stealthyspeeder

Dont pay a parking fine you get up North if you have a southern reg!! nothing will happen to you, they have no way of enforcing the fine, if the unpaid fines are not reported to the courts within 6 months, they strike them off their books. Which court in Northern Ireland is going to take the deatils of a Southern reg car to and try and send a summons when they have no address!?? none! and they cant go to a court in the Republic as no offence has been committed in the Republic! So your grand! And if you dont pay them, it makes me feel less guilty about never paying for the M50 with my northern reg!

Glenbhoy

i know this is resurrecting a long dead thread, but just decided to share my own experience.

Last month, I got a fixed penalty notice for staying 15 mins longer than the two hours permitted in a parking bay in a town in the North. Since I was driving a southern registered car I threw away the ticket as I normally would in such circumstances and declined to pay the £30.

To my shock, this morning a demand for £60 arrived in the post to my house in Dublin. There's obviously a bit more information being shared nowadays than we thought.

Now, whilst I'm unsure as to whether or not they'd actually go to the trouble of getting a judgement made against you, I think I'm just going to pay the £60 as it's due to increase to £90 soon and I am in the north quite a bit.

WestWing

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

Your safe enough. Myself and another few lads have been driving southern reg cars up north for 4 years while in college. Parked daily in the heart of the city centre and got a ticket daily. Have at least a few hundred at this stage. Never heard a dicky bird.

:mad:

It's prickish behaviour like this that causes hassle for the rest of us when we go up North.

Our man in Havana

Debt collectors have no more power than a private citizen to demand money. They can be ignored.

Cuddlesworth

Glenbhoy wrote: »

i know this is resurrecting a long dead thread, but just decided to share my own experience.

Last month, I got a fixed penalty notice for staying 15 mins longer than the two hours permitted in a parking bay in a town in the North. Since I was driving a southern registered car I threw away the ticket as I normally would in such circumstances and declined to pay the £30.

To my shock, this morning a demand for £60 arrived in the post to my house in Dublin. There's obviously a bit more information being shared nowadays than we thought.

Now, whilst I'm unsure as to whether or not they'd actually go to the trouble of getting a judgement made against you, I think I'm just going to pay the £60 as it's due to increase to £90 soon and I am in the north quite a bit.

A private company in a foreign country have acquired your details illegally. I would start with a complaint to the data protection commissioner, plus a freedom of Information request to the department of transport for a full list of all access requests for your car reg in the last six months and for what reason.

That's a pretty serious offense and would have only been the illegal sale of information.

Glenbhoy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

A private company in a foreign country have acquired your details illegally. I would start with a complaint to the data protection commissioner, plus a freedom of Information request to the department of transport for a full list of all access requests for your car reg in the last six months and for what reason.

That's a pretty serious offense and would have only been the illegal sale of information.

It wasn't a private company, it was a subsection of the dept that deals with this in the north (i don't have the letter to hand at present and can't remember the exact dept). The fine has increased because the penalty is £30 if paid within 14 days, but increases to £60 if not paid and then a further increase to £90 if not paid by next month some time.

My reading of it is that authorities north and south are granting each other access to their respective vehicle licensing databases.

Our man in Havana

No they are not.

BronsonTB

Our man in Havana wrote: »

No they are not.

But only a metter of time before they do....Cross border co-operation is on the increase in everything....

Glenbhoy

Our man in Havana wrote: »

No they are not.

The letter I have seems official and I do have experience in reading letters from a forensic point of view. It does not state specifically who it is from, it quotes the various road traffic acts and the contraventions that have taken place etc. but does have a stamp and website address for the following:

http://www.drdni.gov.uk/

In addition, it points me to the website for paying the £60 fine which goes directly to the Roads Service, Parking Enforcement Processing Unit, Co. Hall, Coleraine. I can also seem some lovely pics of my car, a damned fine parking job too, I might add!!

I will pay the fine as I'm up there quite a bit, but I am intrigued as to how they've got my address.

Cuddlesworth

Glenbhoy wrote: »

but I am intrigued as to how they've got my address.

the debt was sold to a private company, that company paid off somebody to access the vehicle registration database and retrieve your information. Probably en-mass with a couple of hundred other people.

We have petty serious data-protection laws here, sometimes leaning on the anally retentive. Our own bodies have serious problems with acquiring details from database records. Outside the state, not a chance.

Reg'stoy

Whether or not you end up getting done for the ticket, the important thing is not to park like a pr**k. No problem with overstaying a 3hr space, but I'd hate to think people would just abandon their cars 'anywhere' knowing there is no come back (not directed at the OP, but all of us).

As to paying the fine, each to their own; personally speaking I probably would.

Glenbhoy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

the debt was sold to a private company, that company paid off somebody to access the vehicle registration database and retrieve your information. Probably en-mass with a couple of hundred other people.

We have petty serious data-protection laws here, sometimes leaning on the anally retentive. Our own bodies have serious problems with acquiring details from database records. Outside the state, not a chance.

I will contact the Data Protection Commissioner and see what they have to say on the matter.

I'll update you after that.

ardmacha

This thread is a waste of space. There is an EU regulation for the exchange of vehicle details to authorities lawfully entitled to enforce fines on vehicles. It is no more illegal or a breach of Data Protection to give your details when you park in Belfast then it is in Galway.

In particular the relevant ministers made a agreement in the last year or so to expedite these matters to stop people taking the piss and this now seems to be working.

There are numerous threads here from people who reckoned they don't need to pay charges that everyone else has to pay, be they parking or tolls. The enforcement may be more cumbersome, but if you want to get away with it get your car registered in Kuwait or the like.

Our man in Havana

There is an EU regulation for the exchange of vehicle details to authorities lawfully entitled to enforce fines on vehicles.

Where has this "regulation" been transposed into law here?

ardmacha

Where has this "regulation" been transposed into law here?

So which law states that you cannot share data with lawful authorities in other parts of the EU?

getz

the republics department of transport and northern irelands DVLA,already have measures in place to swap information,the authorities have agreed to share reg details to ensure offenders can be pursued more easily through courts, northern irelands motorists evaded 1.3 million euros toll in the republic. and republic motorists avoided fines worth £1.7 million since 2006, lads the game is now up.

Our man in Havana

Again no one can quote the actual statute that allows all this sharing.