United Ireland

KINGofHEARTS

Simple question

Would you support or like to have a united Ireland ? ? ?

ciano1

Yes

Doyler92

Do anything for it!

TanG411

Doesn't bother me. I'll leave the country as soon as I leave college if I can :pac:

Berty

Unite with whom?

My name is URL

Yes, but only if it was a fully unanimous decision from people on both sides

no more bombing innocent people to get a point across

philologos

I don't support a United Ireland as long as the democratic will of the people in Northern Ireland is opposed. If this ever changes in the future it will be a possibility. Until then we have to accept things the way they are. I.E That Northern Ireland is a soveriegn territory of the UK. I don't really think it makes much difference whether it is a part of the UK, or a part of the Republic to be honest, it's not something I lose much sleep over.

Pride Fighter

My name is URL wrote: »

Yes, but only if it was a fully unanimous decision from people on both sides

no more bombing innocent people to get a point across

I agree, support it by means of passing referenda in both jurisdictions.

Big Knox

If you could take away all the bull****, voilence and hatred then I can't see how anyone could say no....

But sadly that's never ever going to happen.

Hagar

Surely you mean democratic majority? Just one no vote would stop it being unanimous.

Pighead

It's a pointless question. It's like asking "Would you support the idea of Marty Morrissey and Britney Spears getting married?"

We could all vote yes just to see how they'd get on and find out what their babies would look like but at the end of the day Pighead very much doubts that either Marty or Britney would be happy to partake in such a union just to please the masses.

Marty would be pissed off having to go to movie premieres in LA knowing that Laois were playing Carlow in a minor football semi final back home while Britney would be pissed off that she'd have to walk up the red carpet with a small fat oompaloompa whose hair dye is rubbing against the hip area of her fancy dress.

El Siglo

One crappy country and one less crappy country, joining to make one giant crappy country, what can possibly go wrong?

KINGofHEARTS

What I can't understand is the apathetic attitudes of Irish people, it's OUR FOOKING COUNTRY ... the brits invaded it and took it over and now call it as their own, it's a load of bollox, they have to be fought out of every bloody where they go, and when the locals stand up to them and kill a few of their soldiers they call them terrorists...LOL... how can u invade a country and when the locals stand up and fight back you call them terrorists

and because this has being going on for so long now people can't be arsed any more

I can guarantee if the brits had of kept another part of the country ie Dublin or Cork instead of the north alot of you would be signing a totally different tune

senordingdong

Jesus no.

I don't want to be in anyway associated with the scum from across the border.
Especially the Republicans.

philologos

KINGofHEARTS wrote: »

What I can't understand is the apathetic attitudes of Irish people, it's OUR FOOKING COUNTRY ... the brits invaded it and took it over and now call it as their own and because it's being going on for so long people can't be arsed any more

I can guarantee if the brits had of kept another part of the country ie Dublin or Cork instead of the north alot of you would be signing a totally different tune

Who cares? A nation is only a mere social construct something that exists merely conceptually. I personally think the world would be a better place if more people took an apathetic attitude towards nation. Especially when this attitude can retard any form of diplomacy as we have seen both in Ireland and elsewhere in the world.

The only thing that really matters is this: We're all humans, and we're all in this life thing together. Let's make it easier for eachother.

Edit: As for the planations malarky, it happened 400 years ago. We need to start to get over it. Many of us in Ireland also attribute at least part of our descent to British settlers. That's reality.

I think the notion of "foreign" as hilarious anyway, as the first settlers of any country had to come from somewhere else first. The "first Irish" were also foreign.

stovelid

We would end up 'supporting' Northern Ireland in the same fashion that we're supporting property developers and banks.

I'd love to see armchair republicans on here squaring that with the low taxes (while paradoxically griping about useless representation and shite services) so beloved of the electorate in the south.

SprostonGreen

Absolutely not. There are enough narrow minded, inward looking bigots in this republic as it is, we do not need to absorb the ones from across the border.

The economy cant be sustained as it is at 26 counties, how would we manage with 32, we couldnt simple as. Ireland is the republic, that small other part is the UK and they are welcome to it.

Kalashnikov_Kid

What would we do with 1 million odd British people? Some of who hate us...

harsea8

KINGofHEARTS wrote: »

What I can't understand is the apathetic attitudes of Irish people, it's OUR FOOKING COUNTRY ... the brits invaded it and took it over and now call it as their own, it's a load of bollox, they have to be fought out of every bloody where they go

and because it's being going on for so long now people can't be arsed any more

I can guarantee if the brits had of kept another part of the country ie Dublin or Cork instead of the north alot of you would be signing a totally different tune

I think you'll find that most Brits, at least those in England, Wales and Scotland, don't give 2 sh*ts about NI and would happily give it back if it stops us lot from moaning about it; ditto with most politicians in Westminster. The problem is that many of the Brits (ie Unionists) who live in NI don't want to be part of a united ireland, and a small minority would be happy to take up arms to prevent it (which would put us all back to square 1). The Unionist population of NI, however, have been living there for such a long time that "fighting" them out of there just isn't an option...if it happens, it has to happen by consensus.

Wertz

Idealistically I support it.

Realistically I don't.

Bit of a fencesitter's attitude I know, but who here can honestly say that;
1) The loyalists would ever come around to the idea
2) That even at our richest, our State could afford to take on the added financial burden that NI represents (no NAMA arguments please)

Self determination and cross border bodies are about as good a deal as it gets IMO...all that's missing is the discontinued presence of UK military forces.
The place has been divided for too long, in too many ways for it ever to become truly united...you only have to see the contempt some of those in the republic have for NI, it's people and it's issues (and vice versa) to recognise that...

Whiskey Devil

If only I could live to see the day. It would obviously signal a huge step forward for people on both sides of the border, and could only be a good thing. Why anybody would oppose peace? Realistically, it will never happen.


A little off topic, but does anybody else hate the STUDENT mentality (seen above) of 'I'm leaving this country when I finish college/get my degree and never coming back'. How about you stop scrounging off the tax payer and go study somewhere else then? The fact is that 90% of you will be back with your tail between your legs when you realise that life elsewhere isn't all that great. Gobsh*tes.

DonJose

Heart says yes, pocket says no, united Ireland = No more cheap NI booze

ejmaztec

Can you imagine what it would be like to get a bargain, if it were one state on the island? It's bad enough with 26/32 getting robbed without going the whole hog and having a completely captive audience. We'd be screwed double.:eek:

There'd still be people heading north, only they'd be going to Larne instead of Newry.

RandolphEsq

Northern Ireland is a ****hole and Britain would only be too happy to give it to us. It is a leech that would keep sucking at all the prosperity in the South until we are both poor together.
Cut it off and float it towards Iceland

TPD

Dont really care. Would be annoyed that a close source of cheap booze was gone. Also, it's nice having some shops etc in the north that dont operate in the republic.

I'm another hoping to leave when I've finished college.

Whiskey Devil

stovelid wrote: »

We would end up 'supporting' Northern Ireland in the same fashion that we're supporting property developers and banks.

I'm no economic expert, but surely if the six counties were incorporated into a 32 county economy there would be need to 'prop up' anybody.
Isn't the reason it cost the British so much money is because 1. it's so small (even the British didn't expect NI to last) 2. their military presence there for the last 40 years 3. they've have to rebuild it after 30 years of war.

Wertz

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

A little off topic, but does anybody else hate the STUDENT mentality (seen above) of 'I'm leaving this country when I finish college/get my degree and never coming back'. How about you stop scrounging off the tax payer and go study somewhere else then? The fact is that 90% of you will be back with your tail between your legs when you realise that life elsewhere isn't all that great. Gobsh*tes.

Yup...something I'm seeing/hearing a lot more of lately. Really one for a new thread though...

philologos

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

I'm no economic expert, but surely if the six counties were incorporated into a 32 county economy there would be need to 'prop up' anybody.
Isn't the reason it cost the British so much money is because 1. it's so small (even the British didn't expect NI to last) 2. their military presence there for the last 40 years 3. they've have to rebuild it after 30 years of war.

And you really think that we wouldn't have to have a military presence in Northern Ireland if it was a part of the Republic? That's merely wishful thinking.

pablomakaveli

I'm completely against it. I see the North as a foreign country and as far as i'm concerned it's not our responsibility.

Whiskey Devil

Jakkass wrote: »

And you really think that we wouldn't have to have a military presence in Northern Ireland if it was a part of the Republic? That's merely wishful thinking.

We are talking hypothetically. It's not like anybody expects the Irish army to go to war with the LVF for 30 years. If a United Ireland was ever to become a reality (a democratic decision by a majority on both sides of the border, it would mean a HUGE shift in opinion by the Loyalist people in the north). If it was on peaceful terms, basically. As I said, it will never happen.

KINGofHEARTS

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I'm completely against it. I see the North as a foreign country and as far as i'm concerned it's not our responsibility.

Possibly the most west brit attitude I have ever heard, be sigining a totally different tune if it was your part of the country that was divided

philologos

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

We are talking hypothetically. It's not like anybody expects the Irish army to go to war with the LVF for 30 years. If a United Ireland was ever to become a reality (a democratic decision by a majority on both sides of the border, it would mean a HUGE shift in opinion by the Loyalist people in the north). If it was on peaceful terms, basically. As I said, it will never happen.

If it is 52% 48% there still will be a lot of opposition, potentially violent. It really doesn't need a huge shift in opinion. I mean in countries with minorities, militants can still exist. One need only look to ETA in Spain.

KINGofHEARTS wrote: »

Possibly the most west brit attitude I have ever heard, be sigining a totally different tune if it was your part of the country that was divided

Why would we be singing a different tune? Britain is a society which respects rights and civil liberties for the most part, as is Ireland. It really has no net effect apart from which nation it is attached to.

If a "West Brit" attitude involves assessing reality for what it is. Then sign me up. Northern Ireland is a separate jurisdiction to the Republic. That's merely factual.

Happy Monday

No.

After the initial euphoria of reunification people would become tired of angry, radical Northerners talking and protesting.

I mean - what would we do with that 20% of the population who are British citizens.

People would soon prefer a return to what we have now.....

Just look at East Germany if you don't believe me.........

DoireNod

I have and always will support Irish independence, since I am of the belief that it is right - the same way James Connolly and the rest of the lads did.

Regardless of the economic, social or whatever implications, the idea of Irish independence is one which I think is entirely righteous and as such, is completely worth pursuing. The principle of freedom is always worth pursuing, I believe.

I don't like the attitude that has developed in recent years, among some elements of society in the Republic, which views 'Northern Ireland' and the people who live there as foreign. It doesn't help things and frankly, it's insulting to the many Irish people in the North, not just myself.

TPD

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

A little off topic, but does anybody else hate the STUDENT mentality (seen above) of 'I'm leaving this country when I finish college/get my degree and never coming back'. How about you stop scrounging off the tax payer and go study somewhere else then? The fact is that 90% of you will be back with your tail between your legs when you realise that life elsewhere isn't all that great. Gobsh*tes.

I have a job and buy things in this country, as well as studying. I am paying my dues and have as much right to live here as anybody does. I also have the right to leave whenever I like.

Would you rather I stay after college, and go on the dole? Everybody I know who has just left college has done this.

Whiskey Devil

Jakkass wrote: »

If it is 52% 48% there still will be a lot of opposition, potentially violent. It really doesn't need a huge shift in opinion. I mean in countries with minorities, militants can still exist. One need only look to ETA in Spain.

Well you just have to look at way Ian Paisley and the DUP (and Sinn Féin) have carried their people with them into government with Martin McGuinness (a so called terrorist - hate that word) who is despised by Loyalists in general. Clearly, they have a lot of sway. It would never ever happen if there had to be a huge military presence there.

Stev_o

Meh if by some miracle everyone in this country decided to get along with each other and that unification would involve a peaceful transition and was independently financed yes.

But this is the real world and chances are if we were by some fallacy told by Britain you can have Ulster back it would be a disaster. Apart from the obvious violence every can imagine the economic change would cripple the country. Just think about everything that would have to be changed, teaching and education, health service, civil servants, finance, legal laws etc.

That sort of cost out weighs the whole fascination of some people of going "WE GOT OUR LAND BACK!"

TheZohanS

It will never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Happy Monday

DoireNod wrote: »

I don't like the attitude that has developed in recent years, among some elements of society in the Republic, which views 'Northern Ireland' and the people who live there as foreign. It doesn't help things and frankly, it's insulting to the many Irish people in the North, not just myself.

It is foreign - that's why we send our foreign affairs ministers like Dick Spring to talk turkey in the North.

That's why we endorsed the GFA and recognised NI's place in the UK.

Wake up and smell the coffee baby!

pablomakaveli

KINGofHEARTS wrote: »

Possibly the most west brit attitude I have ever heard, be sigining a totally different tune if it was your part of the country that was divided

West Brit my arse. You're the bigger traitor to your country by supporting something that could ruin the Republic. I'm a firm nationalist and no so called "Republican" can tell me otherwise.

LongLiveQ&A

I think there's too much of a difference between the two jurisdictions on this island to become just one. Just think about it this way, do you want to live in a country where Ian Paisley Jnr is a member of the Daíl (or whatever the loyalists insist it would be called)?

Whiskey Devil

Happy Monday wrote: »

It is foreign - that's why we send our foreign affairs ministers like Dick Spring to talk turkey in the North.

That's why we endorsed the GFA and recognised NI's place in the UK.

Wake up and smell the coffee baby!

It may be a foreign jurisdiction, but it's used as an insult to Irish people in the North.

Sea Sharp

I think a United states of Europe is a more realistic possibility than a united Ireland.

It didn't happen, and it won't ever happen. A significant proportion of Northern Ireland does not want to leave the UK and that's not gonna change in the next 50 years.


I wouldn't wish our crap government upon anybody else.

Seaneh

Skipping all the talking in-thread and just replying to the OP here.

If, as the SNP plan, a Scottish independence referendum goes ahead in the next two years, and IF is passes, and IF the union is broken, THEN there is a massive chance of a united Ireland within the next 10 years as I feel wales would follow Scotland a few years down the line and the union would be just England and N. Ireland.

Mossy Monk

Take away all the assholes with the hatred then sure.

philologos

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

Well you just have to look at way Ian Paisley and the DUP (and Sinn Féin) have carried their people with them into government with Martin McGuinness (a so called terrorist - hate that word) who is despised by Loyalists in general. Clearly, they have a lot of sway. It would never ever happen if there had to be a huge military presence there.

As for Ian Paisley, I don't think he was involved in militant activity at all.

Belfast was like Baghdad. One has to just look to places such as "RPG Avenue" to realise that it was quite a serious conflict. Not only that, but there was considerable interchanging between the Provisional IRA, and other terrorist groups around the world including ETA and the PLO. So much interchanging that there were Provisional IRA members fighting alongside Palestinians in the 1982 War. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened the other way around too.

I think it's clearly obvious why the British thought it appropriate to have a military placement in Northern Ireland. It was a dangerous place at the time, and clearly the police were out of their depths trying to deal with it.

As for hating the word terrorist, it's the only suitable one to refer to Provisional IRA violence, and it's the only suitable one to refer to Loyalist violence. Although it is more gangland crime these days than anything else.

LongLiveQ&A wrote:

do you want to live in a country where Ian Paisley Jnr is a member of the Daíl (or whatever the loyalists insist it would be called)?

The Commons of course :pac:

daniel91

Personally i would love to see a United Ireland, and be a citizen of Ireland not just the Republic. But honestly I can't see it happening. My belief is that the armed struggle would have to return first and the only way that the IRA, not the RIRA, would have the support of the people would be for another event such as bloddy sunday to occur, and don't think the brits will make that mistake again.

Such a shame that so many Irish Volunteers have bravly lost their life for the cause and the 6 counties still under British rule.

philologos

daniel91 wrote: »

Personally i would love to see a United Ireland, and be a citizen of Ireland not just the Republic. But honestly I can't see it happening. My belief is that the armed struggle would have to return first and the only way that the IRA, not the RIRA, would have the support of the people would be for another event such as bloddy sunday to occur, and don't think the brits will make that mistake again.

Why is it worth going to such lengths to get? It's this kind of mentality that gets me thinking that such nationalism is dangerous. I'd honestly prefer if people would toss the nationalism aside and just get into the issue of how we can better relate to eachother as human beings. At the end of the day that's what we all are, human beings deserving of respect.

daniel91 wrote: »

Such a shame that so many Irish Volunteers have bravly lost their life for the cause and the 6 counties still under British rule.

By Irish Volunteers, I presume you are talking about the Provisional IRA. Let's be honest, those lives were wasted, just as much as the lives of the victims were wasted. Those people could have left this world a better place. Families destroyed no doubt. Was it worth it?

Stev_o

daniel91 wrote: »

Personally i would love to see a United Ireland, and be a citizen of Ireland not just the Republic. But honestly I can't see it happening. My belief is that the armed struggle would have to return first and the only way that the IRA, not the RIRA, would have the support of the people would be for another event such as bloddy sunday to occur, and don't think the brits will make that mistake again.

Such a shame that so many Irish Volunteers have bravly lost their life for the cause and the 6 counties still under British rule.

Why a armed struggle? We'd be the first EU country to invade another EU member state and would result us getting thrown out and getting our ass handed to us by the EU and the UN. Also if you think that we could somehow even win a war against UK is a completely fallacy, Collins would turn in his grave.

Whiskey Devil

Jakkass wrote: »

As for Ian Paisley, I don't think he was involved in militant activity at all.

I'm not suggesting that Ian Paisley was involved in militant activity, although he played a huge part in drumming up the hatred that's clearly evident today. He has indirectly killed people, but he's also done a lot of good in the last few years. Dwelling on the past will not help anybody.

My point was that there has been very little armed resistance on either side to the power sharing government - so both parties clearly have a huge say in their communities.


As for being terrorists, well that's just an opinion, not a fact.

philologos

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that Ian Paisley was involved in militant activity, although he played a huge part in drumming up the hatred that's clearly evident today. He has indirectly killed people, but he's also done a lot of good in the last few years. Dwelling on the past will not help anybody.

One could argue that about Paisley, but if there isn't anything concrete to back up the accusation it falls on deaf ears. People would have to actively go through transcripts of his speeches (including within the walls of Free Presbyterian Churches on Sundays) and see if he has ever encouraged the killing of anyone in Northern Ireland.