United Ireland

K-9

Little investment? Half the jobs there are public sector or publicly funded!

gurramok

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think he ever said all just those that don't support a united Ireland, a bit like ethnic cleansing.

How is it ethnic cleansing when they(Unionist) are allegedly Irish?

Fratton Fred

Everyone talks about the nationalist outbreeding the unionists, but in ten year time when this is supposed to have happened, people will have gotten used to their cosy way of life, free NHS, free prescriptions, loads of public sector jobs. Will they really be ready to give all that up.

Ever thought why it is sinn fein campaign so hard for free healthcare?

tbh

PomBear wrote: »

No but 650 random members of the general public can give an farlt relient estimation of how a vote would go, most surveys go on less of a demographic

would you like to see a united Ireland? Of course I would, most Irish people would.

Let me ask you a different question.

Let's just say the British Government said
"To every Irish citizen alive on the 1st of September 2009, we are going to pay the sum of £200 per month, for life as compensation for the six counties. In return, the people of the Republic of Ireland, must vote to totally and irrevocably give up their claim on the six counties FOREVER".

Do you think people in Ireland would vote to accept or reject that? I'd say we'd bite their hands off.
How low do you think that sum would have to go before people would reject it?
A practical test of anyone's patriotism, I think.

PomBear

tbh wrote: »

would you like to see a united Ireland? Of course I would, most Irish people would.

Let me ask you a different question.

Let's just say the British Government said
"To every Irish citizen alive on the 1st of September 2009, we are going to pay the sum of £200 per month, for life as compensation for the six counties. In return, the people of the Republic of Ireland, must vote to totally and irrevocably give up their claim on the six counties FOREVER".

Do you think people in Ireland would vote to accept or reject that? I'd say we'd bite their hands off.
How low do you think that sum would have to go before people would reject it?
A practical test of anyone's patriotism, I think.

Don't make me cringe because I know the same outcome as you do but I feel it would be the same for every vote that would come to the Irish people

Erin Go Brath

meditraitor wrote: »

The Irish(us)have never been united so whats the big deal with doing it now?
Just nationalistic nonsense.

Not everyone in Ireland wants unity so the point is moot, if we are not savages then we must respect the people who do not want an Irish Unified State.
The point of my comments are that the Irish have never been unified and I pointed to the facts relating to the comment, these are my grounds for dismissing the calls for a united Irelans as nonsense and this IS relevent to the thread.

A majority vote will decide when unity happens. If you are not 'a savage' as you suggest then you must respect the people who do want a unified state as much as those who don't. The yes vote on this thread is more than twice the no vote btw. Looks like a lot of people are subscribing to this 'nationalistic nonsense'.

Ireland will be unified in the next few decades as the growth of nationalism and decline of unionism in the north takes effect. The irish republican movement is one the most enduring political philosophies in the world and there is a much bigger will for unity than you are imagining.

Your grounds for dismissing Irish unity because a 32 county indepedent republic hasn't been achieved yet is nonsensical. The majority in Ireland favour it and we are moving closer to a majority in the 6 counties aswell which is what the border poll will require to pass.

gurramok

gurramok wrote: »

How is it ethnic cleansing when they(Unionist) are allegedly Irish?

Some republicans here don't consider them Irish, they believe them to be descendants of invadors who shouldn't be here!

weepee

I dont really think this is a question of cost. Whether Dublin could afford another 6 counties or not, is really immaterial. Anyone who cant see that is being unrealistic
and ignoring the history of not only this island, but our race also.

Jim236

For anyone genuinely interested in ways of bringing about a United Ireland, this will be of interesting reading: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamon-mccann/what-unionists-must-do-now-to-get-the-thumbs-up-from-europe-14287760.html

Robert Ramsey, former PPS to former Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, Brian Faulkner, suggests that Unionists should accept that although the North is still part of the UK, the union has already ended. He says Unionists should look at ways of getting the best deal possible out of a United Ireland, instead of ignoring the idea of a UI and thus leading to Unionists effectively missing the boat on any influence on what he sees as inevitable, i.e. a United Ireland.

I don't believe that Ulster-Scots is a language, let alone a living language as Robert Ramsey claims, but theres a lot of merit in what he says and his suggestion could be the answer to an 800-year old problem.

Munsterforever

No.

Having this invisible line has far too many benefeits to be gotten rid of!

Firstly, you must remember that the majority of jobs in NI are provided directly and indirectly provided by the UK government (don't quote me on this) but I think its roughly 60-70%. Hence our government in the ROI would have to find jobs for all these poeple which would be at an ENORMOUS cost. Think along the lines of when Western Germany was reunited with East Germany, it dragged down the wealth of the rich West significantly.. and still to this day there are poeple living in the East who wish they had never been re-united, which we would probably face given then lack of "optimism" among the Unionist community.:cool:

Secondly stuff is so cheap in the North with the £ and VAT, that I can visit and get such cheap beer that its actually worth my while to visit the place.:D

Thirdly, The Northerners talk funny, and I wouldn't want that accent associated with my 2/3 of the island.

And anyone who gives me the identity/culture/opression/hungerstrike/blah blah blah B***S*** needs to get real, and know that the partition is the only thing that poeple in NI have ever known in the the last 3 maybe 4 generations!;)

weepee

Munsterforever wrote: »

No.

Having this invisible line has far too many benefeits to be gotten rid of!

Firstly, you must remember that the majority of jobs in NI are provided directly and indirectly provided by the UK government (don't quote me on this) but I think its roughly 60-70%. Hence our government in the ROI would have to find jobs for all these poeple which would be at an ENORMOUS cost. Think along the lines of when Western Germany was reunited with East Germany, it dragged down the wealth of the rich West significantly.. and still to this day there are poeple living in the East who wish they had never been re-united, which we would probably face given then lack of "optimism" among the Unionist community.

Secondly stuff is so cheap in the North with the £ and VAT, that I can visit and get such cheap beer that its actually worth my while to visit the place.

Thirdly, The Northerners talk funny, and I wouldn't want that accent associated with my 2/3 of the island.

And anyone who gives me the identity/culture/opression/hungerstrike/blah blah blah B***S*** needs to get real, and know that the partition is the only thing that poeple in NI have ever known in the the last 3 maybe 4 generations!

Maybe we should have a united Ireland and keep the border then eh?

Wouldnt wanna put ya out.

Munsterforever

weepee wrote: »

Maybe we should have a united Ireland and keep the border then eh?

Wouldnt wanna put ya out.

Well if we can do that while keeping all of the benefits above, then I'm all for it, but since thats probably impossible its a no-go for me! :rolleyes:

weepee

Munsterforever wrote: »

Well if we can do that while keeping all of the benefits above, then I'm all for it, but since thats probably impossible its a no-go for me! :rolleyes:

Yeah well, maybe your one of these people who is prepared to give up part of the island, simply for a cushy life. Dont worry, your not alone.

Munsterforever

weepee wrote: »

Yeah well, maybe your one of these people who is prepared to give up part of the island, simply for a cushy life. Dont worry, your not alone.

Maybe, but I'm just saying that the UK is far better able to deal with any complications in NI than the ROI is. Not to mention that the UK Govt has considerably more money at its disposal

It might not be my place to say since I live on the other side of the border, but why do poeple in NI (i'm talking about the nationalists here) even want to be part of the ROI? Its not like the opression and discrimination that once was is around anymore! I mean apart from the the prices there isn't too much to differentiate between the UK and Ireland, I mean we all speak English, and we have common law (which is infact more liberal in the UK).

weepee

Munsterforever wrote: »

Maybe, but I'm just saying that the UK is far better able to deal with any complications in NI than the ROI is. Not to mention that the UK Govt has considerably more money at its disposal

It might not be my place to say since I live on the other side of the border, but why do poeple in NI (i'm talking about the nationalists here) even want to be part of the ROI? Its not like the opression and discrimination that once was is around anymore! I mean apart from the the prices there isn't too much to differentiate between the UK and Ireland, I mean we all speak English, and we have common law (which is infact more liberal in the UK).

Well this particular 'nationalist', had to endure 40 years of violence, and discrimination, do you not think he is entitled to the fruits of
independance as much as the rest of the island ?????????????????????

Munsterforever

weepee wrote: »

Well this particular 'nationalist', had to endure 40 years of violence, and discrimination, do you not think he is entitled to the fruits of
independance as much as the rest of the island ?????????????????????

You could move down the road and enjoy the supposed fruits of independance.

But on a serious note, you are perfectly entitled to that, but do you not think that the efforts on both sides of the border have made NI also bear fruit?.. So much so that you may aswell live in NI as it is now so very similar to the ROI.

weepee

Munsterforever wrote: »

You could move down the road and enjoy the supposed fruits of independance.

But on a serious note, you are perfectly entitled to that, but do you not think that the efforts on both sides of the border have made NI also bear fruit?.. So much so that you may aswell live in NI as it is now so very similar to the ROI.

Alas, expressing your 'Irishness' is still frowned upon at least, and fraught with danger at worse.

Northern Ireland was set up as a Protestant/Unionist state, the last line of defence for the descendants of the plantation, so to speak. The Unionist mindset hasnt changed much since those days, they still view the 'natives' as secondary to a degree, tho, would be content somewhat if they dropped their nationalist aspirations.

b12mearse

Munsterforever wrote: »

Maybe, but I'm just saying that the UK is far better able to deal with any complications in NI than the ROI is. Not to mention that the UK Govt has considerably more money at its disposal

It might not be my place to say since I live on the other side of the border, but why do poeple in NI (i'm talking about the nationalists here) even want to be part of the ROI? Its not like the opression and discrimination that once was is around anymore! I mean apart from the the prices there isn't too much to differentiate between the UK and Ireland, I mean we all speak English, and we have common law (which is infact more liberal in the UK).

have you forgotten the atrocities the british carried out against the catholic community in N.I. ITS OWN CITIZENS???
Do you think we can just forgive and forget???
Its very fresh in the minds of people still..

Munsterforever

b12mearse wrote: »

have you forgotten the atrocities the british carried out against the catholic community in N.I. ITS OWN CITIZENS???
Do you think we can just forgive and forget???
Its very fresh in the minds of people still..

Im not going to go into the long and extremely mixed up history of Northern Ireland.

Forgive, but never forget.

If you continue to live in the past, you can never move on with the future.. simple as that.

zuroph

b12mearse wrote: »

have you forgotten the atrocities the british carried out against the catholic community in N.I. ITS OWN CITIZENS???
Do you think we can just forgive and forget???
Its very fresh in the minds of people still..

and similar atrocities were returned by nationalists to the British.


This thread is going in circles now.

1)Lets have a united ireland
2)Good idea!
3)But what about the negative implications?
4)You're not irish!
5)We're all the same anyway
6)No, the British took our potatoes
7)they killed us
8)We killed them
9)let it go
10)no I wont
11) see point 1

Munsterforever

zuroph wrote: »

and similar atrocities were returned by nationalists to the British.


This thread is going in circles now.

1)Lets have a united ireland
2)Good idea!
3)But what about the negative implications?
4)You're not irish!
5)We're all the same anyway
6)No, the British took our potatoes
7)they killed us
8)We killed them
9)let it go
10)no I wont
11) see point 1

Aww snap, got there before me :P

philologos

zuroph: It's a pity we didn't call it a day after point 5

grenache

Since i have the casting vote, i have come to the conclusion that we should leave our Northern friends to their own devices (no pun intended). And let us maintain the status quo


Case adjourned.

weepee

It seems the all knowing 'southern' branch of posters are way to self centered, way too

busy and way to arrogant to worry about such trivial matters as national independence.

Ireland must be the greatest 'divide and conquer' job the British ever achieved.

Well done lads, wouldnt want to upset your way of life, just forget about 1/5th of the

territory.

toomevara

weepee wrote: »

Ireland must be the greatest 'divide and conquer' job the British ever achieved.

Jeez, its only a piece of land....really who gives a fiddlers anymore apart from a demented rump of ultra nationalist loons? Its the settled will of 2/3 of the population of NI to maintain the current political status quo.

That's fine by me and the vast majority of the population of the island. Perhaps the denizens of the republic should prove that they can manage the 26 counties so graciously granted to them by HM the Queen (God bless 'er) and emerge from the relentless and endless cycle of boom and bust and alarming religious and nationalist fundamentalism which appears to form an unlovely part of the nations' fabric. Before folk begin eyeing up another 6 counties largely populated by folk who, at best are dubious about, the republic, perhaps we should get our act together in the south...

Dublin_Gunner

weepee wrote: »

It seems the all knowing 'southern' branch of posters are way to self centered, way too

busy and way to arrogant to worry about such trivial matters as national independence.

Ireland must be the greatest 'divide and conquer' job the British ever achieved.

Well done lads, wouldnt want to upset your way of life, just forget about 1/5th of the

territory.

We have national independence. Have you not noticed? Ya know, green, white & orange? Dail? Currency? National anthem etc etc? Maybe you missed that in your history class - ya know, War of Independence, Civil War etc?

You must also remember that, if De Valera had the balls to go and talk with the Brits himself, rather than sending our military commander, things may have been different.

They're not, and its about 90 years too late to do anything about it.

tbh

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

You must also remember that, if De Valera had the balls to go and talk with the Brits himself, rather than sending our military commander, things may have been different.

t.

Wa-hey!!! it's so on now!!

tbh

tbh wrote: »

Wa-hey!!! it's so on now!!

History forum! > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=330

Deedsie

toomevara wrote: »

Jeez, its only a piece of land....really who gives a fiddlers anymore apart from a demented rump of ultra nationalist loons? Its the settled will of 2/3 of the population of NI to maintain the current political status quo.

Its not just a piece of land though. What about the 40%+ of Nationalist living in the North?

They are just as Irish as any of us living in the Republic. I refuse to turn my back on our fellow countrymen and women. Have they not got the right to join with the rest of the republic? If they had the majority are people still going to vote no to a united Ireland?

getz

Deedsie wrote: »

Its not just a piece of land though. What about the 40%+ of Nationalist living in the North?

They are just as Irish as any of us living in the Republic. I refuse to turn my back on our fellow countrymen and women. Have they not got the right to join with the rest of the republic? If they had the majority are people still going to vote no to a united Ireland?

they have a right ,but havent you got it yet?they dont want to

Deedsie

getz wrote: »

they have a right ,but havent you got it yet?they dont want to

First line of this thread is would i support a united Ireland? I would. How do you know what they do or dont want? Have you asked them? Has there ever been an official census on the question with a reasonable % participation. Do nationalists continually and with greater frequency vote for Sinn Féin?

I am more than happy with the staus quo while the majority of northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK. But if the majority changes and the people vote for a united Ireland I just hope the people of the south will be ready to welcome the people of the six counties.

Would anyone vote against a united Ireland if thats what the majority of Northern Ireland wanted?

chopperbyrne

Deedsie wrote: »

First line of this thread is would i support a united Ireland? I would. How do you know what they do or dont want? Have you asked them? Has there ever been an official census on the question with a reasonable % participation. Do nationalists continually and with greater frequency vote for Sinn Féin?

I am more than happy with the staus quo while the majority of northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK. But if the majority changes and the people vote for a united Ireland I just hope the people of the south will be ready to welcome the people of the six counties.

Would anyone vote against a united Ireland if thats what the majority of Northern Ireland wanted?

If I knew it would lead to a decrease in the quality of life for all involved and probably lead to renewed sectarian violence then I would vote against it.

Dublin_Gunner

But I think a more paramount question would be this - regardless of who's ruling the roost for NI - would they be better off if joining with the RoI??

I think not. They're better off sustaining the way they are, than having to live in poverty if becoming part of RoI.

They are just as Irish as any of us living in the Republic.

I don't think anyone was ever denying them that.

I refuse to turn my back on our fellow countrymen and women.

Eh, they're not 'fellow' countrymen - those live in the south. If they wish to be 'fellow' countrymen, they can move.

Have they not got the right to join with the rest of the republic?

See point above.

If they had the majority are people still going to vote no to a united Ireland?

Would there even be a vote? Simply saying 'yay, lets all be a nice United Ireland' is maybe, ya know, simplifying the situation, just a tad.

There would be massive job losses straight away, a change of infrastructure (energy, roads, communications etc), Laws here would have to change, plus licenses granted / restricted as some companies operating in the north cannot trade down here.

Their legal system would change to be subsumed into ours - which would mean basically everyone legally trained in NI would not be able to practice.

The there's the tax system, housing, vehicle registration, economics, currency, policing etc etc.

I could go on. But there'd be about 20 years worth of work, graft & poverty before things would begin to remotely look like a 'United' Ireland.

Thats if we don't go bankrupt before then - as it would cost billions to change over to our governance (for the reasons stated above).

Fratton Fred

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But I think a more paramount question would be this - regardless of who's ruling the roost for NI - would they be better off if joining with the RoI??

I think not. They're better off sustaining the way they are, than having to live in poverty if becoming part of RoI.


I don't think anyone was ever denying them that.


Eh, they're not 'fellow' countrymen - those live in the south. If they wish to be 'fellow' countrymen, they can move.


See point above.



Would there even be a vote? Simply saying 'yay, lets all be a nice United Ireland' is maybe, ya know, simplifying the situation, just a tad.

There would be massive job losses straight away, a change of infrastructure (energy, roads, communications etc), Laws here would have to change, plus licenses granted / restricted as some companies operating in the north cannot trade down here.

Their legal system would change to be subsumed into ours - which would mean basically everyone legally trained in NI would not be able to practice.

The there's the tax system, housing, vehicle registration, economics, currency, policing etc etc.

I could go on. But there'd be about 20 years worth of work, graft & poverty before things would begin to remotely look like a 'United' Ireland.

Thats if we don't go bankrupt before then - as it would cost billions to change over to our governance (for the reasons stated above).

That is why i believe that if the RoI is serious about a united Ireland then the south needs to change as much as the north does.

Why should the north be subsumed into the south, why not hold new elections, why not build an administrative capital in Leitrim or somewhere so that neither Dublin or Belfast are taking over?

Why should those in the north give up a lot of their luxuries, like 3% Stamp Duty, no VRT and free prescriptions, why can't the RoI up it;s game so that the people in the north are relatively unaffected whereas people in the south begin to enjoy the same benefits the north does?

chopperbyrne

chopperbyrne wrote: »

If I knew it would lead to a decrease in the quality of life for all involved and probably lead to renewed sectarian violence then I would vote against it.

This point appears to be one that many republicans refuse to accept/acknowledge,"A united Ireland at any cost!".

Personally I don't believe there would be any resurgance in violance, but there wil be a lot of discontent in NI when they (the people) realise what they are losing financially and economically.

Eh, they're not 'fellow' countrymen - those live in the south. If they wish to be 'fellow' countrymen, they can move.

Sure, it's not as we have a housing shortage here http://ghostestates.com/main.php?g2_view=map.ShowMap

Theres enough houses for all of them!

getz

Deedsie wrote: »

First line of this thread is would i support a united Ireland? I would. How do you know what they do or dont want? Have you asked them? Has there ever been an official census on the question with a reasonable % participation. Do nationalists continually and with greater frequency vote for Sinn Féin?

I am more than happy with the staus quo while the majority of northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK. But if the majority changes and the people vote for a united Ireland I just hope the people of the south will be ready to welcome the people of the six counties.

Would anyone vote against a united Ireland if thats what the majority of Northern Ireland wanted?

it stands to reason that if i lived in northern ireland,and my wish was to part of the republic,instead of taking out a british passport, i would take out a republican one,[you have the choice in the north] but as they obviously havent,the surge of republican passports that had been taken up in the north seems to have turned out to be people over 65, the irish passport for the over 65s is free, the british one costs over £80,as i said in the earlier posts untill the republic can give the northern irish a better welfare system, goverment, you will be pissing against the wind.you have got to have a better life than they have,people always want to have a better life.thats why my irish family moved to england all those years ago.

Dublin_Gunner

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That is why i believe that if the RoI is serious about a united Ireland then the south needs to change as much as the north does.

Why should the north be subsumed into the south, why not hold new elections, why not build an administrative capital in Leitrim or somewhere so that neither Dublin or Belfast are taking over?

Oh yeah, cause thats feasible and realistic. :rolleyes: Lets just create an entirely new country / state.

Dublin is the capital of Ireland, united or not, end of.

Why should those in the north give up a lot of their luxuries, like 3% Stamp Duty, no VRT and free prescriptions, why can't the RoI up it's game so that the people in the north are relatively unaffected whereas people in the south begin to enjoy the same benefits the north does?

They have those, because er, they are under the rule of Westminster.

If they weren't subsumed into the south, surely that would defeat the purpose????

Deleted User wrote: »

This point appears to be one that many republicans refuse to accept/acknowledge,"A united Ireland at any cost!".

Personally I don't believe there would be any resurgance in violance, but there wil be a lot of discontent in NI when they (the people) realise what they are losing financially and economically.

You, my friend, are very naive.

The romantic idea of a United Ireland at any cost died with MC.

K-9

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why should those in the north give up a lot of their luxuries, like 3% Stamp Duty, no VRT and free prescriptions, why can't the RoI up it;s game so that the people in the north are relatively unaffected whereas people in the south begin to enjoy the same benefits the north does?

This is the most important issue, not us Free Staters not caring!

FG and then FF policy from about the Anglo Irish agreement on, was to concentrate on the economy thus making a United Ireland a more attractive option. That was being achieved until the property bubble and now we are fecked again. We are only seeing the start of the cuts in services and tax rises. That policy has been set back for decades.

Dublin_Gunner

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

You, my friend, are very naive.

The romantic idea of a United Ireland at any cost died with MC.

Not at all, just look back at this thread, there's sufficient evidence to prove this is still the fact with some.

Dublin_Gunner

Deleted User wrote: »

Not at all, just look back at this thread, there's sufficient evidence to prove this is still the fact with some.

A few people posting on an internet forum does not constitute a return to pre 1930's Ireland.

Fratton Fred

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Oh yeah, cause thats feasible and realistic. :rolleyes: Lets just create an entirely new country / state.

Dublin is the capital of Ireland, united or not, end of.

They have those, because er, they are under the rule of Westminster.

If they weren't subsumed into the south, surely that would defeat the purpose????

a united Ireland will be an entirely new country. Both sides of the border need to compromise, not just the north.

anyway, there are more important things going on in the world.

Australia are 93 for 4 FFS

weepee

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

We have national independence. Have you not noticed? Ya know, green, white & orange? Dail? Currency? National anthem etc etc? Maybe you missed that in your history class - ya know, War of Independence, Civil War etc?

You must also remember that, if De Valera had the balls to go and talk with the Brits himself, rather than sending our military commander, things may have been different.

They're not, and its about 90 years too late to do anything about it.

Good post, I believe Collins was sent by Dev, knowing he couldnt deliver, and that Collins would be held responsible for it.

PS: Whats 90 years compared to 800?

weepee

Fratton Fred wrote: »

a united Ireland will be an entirely new country. Both sides of the border need to compromise, not just the north.

anyway, there are more important things going on in the world.

Australia are 93 for 4 FFS

93 for 4 what ????????????????????????????????????

b12mearse

weepee wrote: »

Good post, I believe Collins was sent by Dev, knowing he couldnt deliver, and that Collins would be held responsible for it.

PS: Whats 90 years compared to 800?

thats partly true.you must remember dev was the president and collins was beneath him.
Look at adams and mcguinness today. it would make more sence if adams was deputy first minister in the northern assembly...or would it?

weepee

b12mearse wrote: »

thats partly true.you must remember dev was the president and collins was beneath him.
Look at adams and mcguinness today. it would make more sence if adams was deputy first minister in the northern assembly...or would it?

Same sort of scenario with the Shinners I suspect-somethings never change.

Tho, Stormont is the mother of all hypocrisy on planet Earth.
Problem being, there is no alternative, bar bombs and bullets.

K-9

weepee wrote: »

Good post, I believe Collins was sent by Dev, knowing he couldnt deliver, and that Collins would be held responsible for it.

PS: Whats 90 years compared to 800?

Churchill offered it to him during WW11 in exchange for the Treaty ports, which he was obsessed with. DeV knew rightly Churchill couldn't deliver it.

weepee

K-9 wrote: »

Churchill offered it to him during WW11 in exchange for the Treaty ports, which he was obsessed with. DeV knew rightly Churchill couldn't deliver it.

Perhaps not, but Ive wondered what the situation may have been if the ports had been offered to the Yanks, would things have been different.

KingKiller

K-9 wrote: »

Churchill offered it to him during WW11 in exchange for the Treaty ports, which he was obsessed with. DeV knew rightly Churchill couldn't deliver it.

More like Dev knew rightly Churchill wouldn't deliver it. After WW11 it would have been something like " Ah, thing I've changed my mind, tough Dev and Ireland ".

KingKiller

grenache wrote: »

Since i have the casting vote, i have come to the conclusion that we should leave our Northern friends to their own devices (no pun intended). And let us maintain the status quo


Case adjourned.

Is'nt that jsut the finest example of why we're in a mess today. Prop up the status quo no matter how rotten and corrupt it is. God, what a great little country we are.

You haven't the casting vote, the people of Ireland have and their isn't any doubt that a united Ireland would easily win a referendum in the south. Polls down the years have shown consistently 80% favour unity.