United Ireland

PaulieD

minidazzler wrote: »

Who are we to complain about Mass Immigration and Cheap Labour?

We are a sovereign nation, thats who. Mass immigration has been a complete disaster for the country.

-90% of all jobs went to immigrants last year.
-40,000 PPS numbers issued to immigrants this year, whilst over 400,000 people are on the dole, 20% of which are immigrants.
-Over 33% of those availing of rent allowance are immigrants.
-Lenihan even publically admitted it was one of the factors that got is in this mess.

minidazzler wrote: »

Interest rates? That's a World problem not just Europe.

Even more so in Ireland, as we can not set our own. Brussels decides.

minidazzler wrote: »

Common Fisheries, Sharing is caring.

Thats all well and good, but it is one of our only national resources. One that we could have turned into a huge industry, instead we handed it over to Brussels.


So, let me get this back on topic. You have no interest in uniting this island, with people we share ancestry with. Instead, you want to unite a whole continent, with people we have little in common. Its madder you europhiles are getting.

AckwelFoley

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

No, because you say really cool things in grown up discussions such as 'couldnt give a fiddlers fcuk'

Well now that we have clearly established that you are the epitome of cool fonzie, let me retract my statment and let me rephrase my statment.

United Ireland?

I personally dont care, honestly, im sick listening to the same rehashed arguements that get posted every few weeks when this question is posed. There will never be a united 32 county Irleand Its not possible in my lifetime due to the fact that the will of the majority of the people that live in the north dont want it.

PaulieD

snyper wrote: »

United Ireland?.

Yep, thats the thread title, top left of your screen.

snyper wrote: »

I personally dont care, honestly, im sick listening to the same rehashed arguements that get posted every few weeks when this question is posed. There will never be a united 32 county Irleand Its not possible in my lifetime due to the fact that the will of the majority of the people that live in the north dont want it.

The demographics are changing.

Whiskey Devil

snyper wrote: »

Well now that we have clearly established that you are the epitome of cool fonzie, let me retract my statment and let me rephrase my statment.

United Ireland?

I personally dont care, honestly, im sick listening to the same rehashed arguements that get posted every few weeks when this question is posed. There will never be a united 32 county Irleand Its not possible in my lifetime due to the fact that the will of the majority of the people that live in the north dont want it.

Fonzie. :pac:

That's how you make a point. Well done.

Kevin Bacon

PaulieD wrote: »

We are a sovereign nation, thats who. Mass immigration has been a complete disaster for the country.

-90% of all jobs went to immigrants last year.
-40,000 PPS numbers issued to immigrants this year, whilst over 400,000 people are on the dole, 20% of which are immigrants.
-Over 33% of those availing of rent allowance are immigrants.
-Lenihan even publically admitted it was one of the factors that got is in this mess.

Eh.. have you got a source for that information ( the inside of your head doesn't count) 90% of ALL jobs went to immigrants and Lenihan's comments, BS, property bubble was one of the biggest factors as well as the worldwide economic downturn.

minidazzler

PaulieD wrote: »

So, let me get this back on topic. You have no interest in uniting this island, with people we share ancestry with. Instead, you want to unite a whole continent, with people we have little in common. Its madder you europhiles are getting.

I truly people should know their past so they don't repeat mistakes, but people should be looking to the future.

The world is no longer divided by borders, the internet makes the whole world accessible to each other at an unprecedented scale. To look for sovereignity(sp?) is just not justifiable. The whole world is one big community if you let it be.

ChocolateSauce

No, for two main reasons. One, it would be dear as hell. Two, we'd suddenly have over a million extra people in our country that considered themselves nationals of another country. We have a stable situation now, best not to mess with it.

AckwelFoley

PaulieD wrote: »

The demographics are changing.

So?

Not all northern catholics are in favour of a united Ireland.

On top of the fact that even if there were a vote you would have a sizeable minority ie the protestants that would be loyal to the queen.

In essance the shoe would be on the other foot and we would have a "united Ireland" with a band of Loyalists bombing dublin looking for the north to be back as part of the UK.

Its a no win situation other than the status quo.

The simple fact is that with Europe becomming more intergrated it really makes no difference who controls the north.

DoireNod

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

...Two, we'd suddenly have over a million extra people in our country that considered themselves nationals of another country. We have a stable situation now, best not to mess with it.

Not quite true. Over a million would surely be a false projection of nationalist:unionist ratio.

Kev_ps3

Im a Patriot so of course. Any true Irishman who knows our history wouldnt even have to think about it.
Only hopes it happins in my lifetime.

AckwelFoley

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Im a Patriot so of course. Any true Irishman who knows our history wouldnt even have to think about it.
Only hopes it happins in my lifetime.

So im not a true Irishman because i dont particularly care?

Small minds are dangerous.

Whiskey Devil

Kevin Bacon wrote: »

Eh.. have you got a source for that information ( the inside of your head doesn't count) 90% of ALL jobs went to immigrants and Lenihan's comments, BS, property bubble was one of the biggest factors as well as the worldwide economic downturn.

I also find this a bit hard to swallow. 90% of all jobs.

PaulieD

Kevin Bacon wrote: »

Eh.. have you got a source for that information ( the inside of your head doesn't count) 90% of ALL jobs went to immigrants and Lenihan's comments, BS, property bubble was one of the biggest factors as well as the worldwide economic downturn.

Of course I do. 90% of all jobs went to immigrants. It is a fact.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0815/1218747922416.html

Asked about the causes of the recession during ‘The Last Word with Matt Cooper’ on Thursday (25/6/09), Minister Lenihan put it down to,
‘cheap credit from the European Central Bank, the availability of cheap labour after 2004 was a factor as well.'

ChocolateSauce

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Im a Patriot so of course. Any true Irishman who knows our history wouldnt even have to think about it.
Only hopes it happins in my lifetime.

Haha. Nice to know you wouldn't even think about the consequences of such a major decision, you'd just act because being a "true Irishman" (whatever that means), you just know certain things that the rest of us aren't privy to.

doirenod wrote:

Not quite true. Over a million would surely be a false projection of nationalist:unionist ratio.

True, I was rounding to a population of 2 million. I just checked the wikipedia stats on population (1.77 million). It would be closer to 800,000 people who would consider themselves British and not Irish; still a massive number of people for a 4 million-strong republic to absorb.

Sephiroth_dude

yes

PaulieD

minidazzler wrote: »

I truly people should know their past so they don't repeat mistakes, but people should be looking to the future.

The world is no longer divided by borders, the internet makes the whole world accessible to each other at an unprecedented scale. To look for sovereignity(sp?) is just not justifiable. The whole world is one big community if you let it be.

You cannot even spell the word, let alone understand it. Ireland is a sovereign nation and it first responsibility is that to the Irish people.

Try that we are the world claptrap at US customs. See how far it gets you. Nonsense of the highest degree.

Purple Gorilla

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Im a Patriot so of course. Any true Irishman who knows our history wouldnt even have to think about it.
Only hopes it happins in my lifetime.

Let me guess. You're around 14/15 years old?

PaulieD

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

I also find this a bit hard to swallow. 90% of all jobs.

I would love to know the figure from this year. The joys of the EU and "multiculturalism".

PaulieD

snyper wrote: »

So im not a true Irishman because i dont particularly care?

Small minds are dangerous.

If you are happy that part of your country is under occupation, well thats your problem.

minidazzler

PaulieD wrote: »

You cannot even spell the word, let alone understand it. Ireland is a sovereign nation and it first responsibility is that to the Irish people.

Try that we are the world claptrap at US customs. See how far it gets you. Nonsense of the highest degree.

Given you called me a west brit in the a few pages back, I feel justified in calling you a Xenophobe.

PaulieD

minidazzler wrote: »

Given you called me a west brit in the a few pages back, I feel justified in calling you a Xenophobe.

Coming from an europhile like yourself, I will wear it as a badge of honour.

Kev_ps3

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Let me guess. You're around 14/15 years old?

No. Let me guess, your a west brit?

AckwelFoley

PaulieD wrote: »

If you are happy that part of your country is under occupation, well thats your problem.

Well chucky as i said im not bothered, as last time i checked the republic of Ireland is controlled from dublin. There was a brit occupying a tree in the glen of the downs, but we got that sorted.

Kevin Bacon

PaulieD wrote: »

Of course I do. 90% of all jobs went to immigrants. It is a fact.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0815/1218747922416.html

Asked about the causes of the recession during ‘The Last Word with Matt Cooper’ on Thursday (25/6/09), Minister Lenihan put it down to,
‘cheap credit from the European Central Bank, the availability of cheap labour after 2004 was a factor as well.'

Not one to doubt are brillant Minister for Integration Conor Lenihan, (didn't even know there was one) and his understanding of economics but, isn't cheap labour a good thing for an economy? Before you say its them damn imigrants working for less then min. wage who the hell is paying them less then that? Hint: Irish employers

ChocolateSauce

PaulieD wrote: »

If you are happy that part of your country is under occupation, well thats your problem.

There is no part of the country in which I live that is under occupation. The northern part of the island I live on contains part of a different democratic country from mine, but that's another matter entirely.

PaulieD

snyper wrote: »

Well chucky as i said im not bothered, as last time i checked the republic of Ireland is controlled from dublin. There was a brit occupying a tree in the glen of the downs, but we got that sorted.

I am not a supporter of Sinn Fein, the IRA. I am not a republican, I am an Irish nationalist. Not everyone who supports a UI is a provo.

AckwelFoley

PaulieD wrote: »

I am not a supporter of Sinn Fein, the IRA. I am not a republican, I am an Irish nationalist. Not everyone who supports a UI is a provo.

..and not everyone that doesnt support it, is a west brit or any less Irish than your good self.

Yellowblackbird

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't support a United Ireland as long as the democratic will of the people in Northern Ireland is opposed.

Whilst no one in their right mind would want a united ireland I have to contest the logic of your democratic will of NI. Northern Ireland is itself an artificial state, a random line drawn on a map by an english civil servant in 1922. It was a Jerrymander to encompass the protestant population of two counties and four others that they would still outnumber to make a viable political entity. It has no geographic or historic basis. Its a pure invention of convenience.
If one of my neighbours was french and they drew a line around their house and called it East Ireland and said that a 1/1 majority in East Ireland wanted to annex with France it wouldn't hold up. The pretence of a made up North Ireland was allowed to hold up at the time to negotiate more pressing issues against an aggressive Colonial over lord. The made up NI has no geographic or historic basis.
Having achieved a position of peace(relative) and economic potential in the six county construct in the modern era we should let sleeping dogs lie and allow both states on the island to grow and prosper to maximun level without pointless emotive historic baggage

Purple Gorilla

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

No. Let me guess, your a west brit?

Can't say I am. Bu your post reeks of a teenager/kid's point of view. "I'm Irish therefore I support anything Irish".

Patriotism is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit.

But of course, I'm not a true Irishman because I'm not willing to risk the collapse of the Republic just to add some land to our portfolio.
We couldn't afford it during the boomtimes, how do you expect us to afford it now? And what about all the people that will die while the Loyalists take arms? And while the IRA retaliates?
You're willing to risk all of that for some land on the north of our Island? It certainly isn't for the people. It ain't broke now so why fix it? If people in the North want to be Irish, then luckily the GFA allows them to claim Irish citizenship. That satisfies both sides. If you want to be British, get a British Passport. If you want to be Irish, you can have an Irish Passport.

PaulieD

Kevin Bacon wrote: »

Not one to doubt are brillant Minister for Integration Conor Lenihan, (didn't even know there was one) and his understanding of economics but, isn't cheap labour a good thing for an economy? Before you say its them damn imigrants working for less then min. wage who the hell is paying them less then that? Hint: Irish employers

Cheap labour drives down wages and working conditions, to the detriment of the Irish worker(400,000 on the dole). Big businesses get the profits while the working class pay the social costs. Cheap labour and mass immigration have been a disaster for the Irish worker.

What is the point in creating new jobs if 90% of them go to foreign nationals? It makes little or no sense.

AckwelFoley

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Whilst no one in their right mind would want a united ireland I have to contest the logic of your democratic will of NI. Northern Ireland is itself an artificial state, a random line drawn on a map by an english civil servant in 1922. It was a Jerrymander to encompass the protestant population of two counties and four others that they would still outnumber to make a viable political entity. It has no geographic or historic basis. Its a pure invention of convenience.
If one of my neighbours was french and they drew a line around their house and called it East Ireland and said that a 1/1 majority in East Ireland wanted to annex with France it wouldn't hold up. The pretence of a made up North Ireland was allowed to hold up at the time to negotiate more pressing issues against an aggressive Colonial over lord. The made up NI has no geographic or historic basis.

If you go back far enough thats how many countries were formed. The only difference between that and what you say is time

ejmaztec

PaulieD wrote: »

I am not a supporter of Sinn Fein, the IRA. I am not a republican, I am an Irish nationalist. Not everyone who supports a UI is a provo.

Why would anyone wish a Dublin government on anyone? That's the ultimate punishment. Surely you can't hate people in the north that much?

PaulieD

ejmaztec wrote: »

Why would anyone wish a Dublin government on anyone? That's the ultimate punishment. Surely you can't hate people in the north that much?

Gerry, Iris and co arent much better.

DoireNod

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

But of course, I'm not a true Irishman because I'm not willing to risk the collapse of the Republic just to add some land to our portfolio.
We couldn't afford it during the boomtimes, how do you expect us to afford it now? And what about all the people that will die while the Loyalists take arms? And while the IRA retaliates?
You're willing to risk all of that for some land on the north of our Island? It certainly isn't for the people. It ain't broke now so why fix it? If people in the North want to be Irish, then luckily the GFA allows them to claim Irish citizenship. That satisfies both sides. If you want to be British, get a British Passport. If you want to be Irish, you can have an Irish Passport.

I don't question your 'Irishness', but surely in the event that there was complete Irish independence on the island of Ireland and loyalist paramilitaries 'take arms', then wouldn't it be the duty of the Irish nation to control and neutralise them, not the IRA? The IRA would, I assume, cease to exist in the event of Irish independence from British rule, you see.

Also, while the Good Friday Agreement gives Irish people in the North the 'opportunity' to be Irish, it still doesn't solve the question of independence. Irish people in the North can't vote in the Irish elections either, so in effect, it's almost a token gesture.

sdanseo

Just because something happened a long time ago does not mean it didn't happen. Hong Kong was given back after a 99-year lease.

The solid FACT is that Northern Ireland was invaded, occupied, pilaged and planted with immigrants from the UK who in many cases did not want to be there. Landlords arrived and stole swathes of land from the natives who were then forced to work THEIR OWN LAND to feed their families.

That is pure greed.

Now I can accept that some things that happened 400 years ago must be written off. But the Ian paisleys of this world, until very recently, were arrogant enough to suggest that despite all of what I have just described, they were still the rightful beholders of the six counties of Northern Ireland. That, to me, defies belief. I can understand although not agree with the belief that "we've been here 400 years, why should we move" - it's the "we deserve it, britain is great, we invaded so we should keep it, you can;t have it back" etc attitude I despise.

That anyone - and this applies to anyone who believes NI is "rightfully" British - could be so bigoted, high and mighty as to be completely and utterly blind to every faccet of fairness and human decency is unacceptable.

The six counties should be passed back into the posession of the Republic of Ireland immediately and peacefully. Unfortunately, that cannot and will not happen any time soon. For three reasons:

1. The Irish and Bristish governments have once again come to an agreement that stopped at compromise which wasn't well enough thought out. While the Good Friday agreement made peace, I fear it will not last long enough and carried too many sacrifices, like release of prisoners both Loyalist and Nationalist;

2. While reclaiming the North would be a tremendous coup for the Irish goverment, the trouble it would cause (see below) would mean no government is going to be arsed trying to broker a deal that would result in the biggest law enforcement effor in the history of the state to try and stamp out the resulting loyalist violence both in the North and South.

3. There will be too much violence, pure and simple. It is completely and utterly beyond me how any self-respecting person could be of the opinion that the North rightfully belongs to the UK, let alone enough so to resort to violence. However, while there is still the threat of lives being lost, we should strive to preserve peace and if that means letting sleeping dogs lie, so be it. Truth is, if we were handed the North tomorrow, there'd be an explosion in Dublin the week after.

PaulieD

NBB Bohs wrote: »

:mad: Speak for yourself. I really hate that type of mentality by people of your ilk.

And in response to the question, yes but the North of Ireland doesn't belong to me, it belongs to the people who live there. An indipendant North of Ireland is the way forward.

As you are not Irish, Ireland doesnt belong to you either, does it MarkoPantelic? Where you not banned?;)

PaulieD

NBB Bohs wrote: »

What?

Play dumb if you want, Marko. I know its you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

PaulieD wrote: »

We are a sovereign nation, thats who. Mass immigration has been a complete disaster for the country.

-90% of all jobs went to immigrants last year.
-40,000 PPS numbers issued to immigrants this year, whilst over 400,000 people are on the dole, 20% of which are immigrants.
-Over 33% of those availing of rent allowance are immigrants.
-Lenihan even publically admitted it was one of the factors that got is in this mess.

Even more so in Ireland, as we can not set our own. Brussels decides.

Thats all well and good, but it is one of our only national resources. One that we could have turned into a huge industry, instead we handed it over to Brussels.


So, let me get this back on topic. You have no interest in uniting this island, with people we share ancestry with. Instead, you want to unite a whole continent, with people we have little in common. Its madder you europhiles are getting.

Lenihen seemed to miss out the other factors that got us into this mess; i.e. the ones we created ourselves by massive borrowing.

Perhaps they got the jobs because they were more suited to the job and work harder...? Same thing happened in reverse many years ago.

PaulieD wrote: »

I would love to know the figure from this year. The joys of the EU and "multiculturalism".

Can you please give me the outline of a solid economic plan that would envolve both an expanding economy achieved with us leaving the EU?

PaulieD wrote: »

As you are not Irish, Ireland doesnt belong to you either, does it MarkoPantelic? Where you not banned?;)

Well, it does to me, because I am Irish even thoug I choose to live and work aborad, and I agree wholehartedly with him. And this is NOT a re-reg.

Hagar

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Can't say I am. Bu your post reeks of a teenager/kid's point of view. "I'm Irish therefore I support anything Irish".

Don't the Americans as a nation say "MY country right or wrong"? Same thing really. They can't all be teenagers, but Americans are cool so it's OK.

ejmaztec

PaulieD wrote: »

Gerry, Iris and co arent much better.

Who would you like to see running a united Ireland?

sdanseo

NBB Bohs wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I really hate that type of mentality by people of your ilk. What do you mean 'little in common'? I have more in common with people I talk to on youtube in Norway, England, France, Germany than I do with people who live next door to me or in the estate beside me.

As pointed out, you are allegedly not from Ireland so hardly well placed to comment on our internal affairs. I don't mean that in a bad way, just a "what the feck would you know" way. If he's wrong, then so am I, though.

In any case, I agree with the idea that immigration has been a disaster in the sense that too much of anything is a bad idea. Immigration, when controlled, is a good thing. It widens our vision, boradens our horizons and opens us up to new ideas and cultures. There are also a lot of foreigners - I have worked with many of them - who contribute a lot more to society and to their work than the Irish do. I've never come accross a pole or an Indian that was as lazy as a couple of Irish fellas I used to work with and for.

But when whole areas of Dublin become so full of foreigners that you can walk for a mile without seeing another Irish person - and where generally speaking, most of the people you see are scrounging off the state's social welfare cash - you know we're losing the run of ourselves. By all means let us be generous with our cash, but now that we don't have it, I'm sorry to say that we really should be handing it out to deserving Irish people before we give it to people who have blown in.

Obviously though there are exceptions - for example, I would give the social welfare to an Indian gentleman here to further his education and take his degree hoem to India, therefore imrpoving his quality of life and that of his family, long before I would give it to an Irish crackhead who isn't arsed getting out of bed except to find his next fix and maybe to rob someone or murder someone who called him a girl.

NBB Bohs wrote: »

And in response to the question, yes but the North of Ireland doesn't belong to me, it belongs to the people who live there. An indipendant North of Ireland is the way forward. The people who live there really have to drop their romantic nationalism.

The fairest possible thing to do with the North would be to make it independent. Unfortunately, it would not be able to support itself economically and this would probably meet with as much resistance as making it Irish. It's effectively burning a €500 note becuase two mates can't decide who it belongs to and don't want to squabble over it.

thomond2006

I would support a United Ireland if Sinn Fein (especially that donkey Mary Lou) were deported.

PaulieD

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Lenihen seemed to miss out the other factors that got us into this mess; i.e. the ones we created ourselves by massive borrowing..

Yes he did mention that, cheap labour and the property bubble.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Perhaps they got the jobs because they were more suited to the job and work harder...? Same thing happened in reverse many years ago..

I highly doubt that. Do you think it is sustainable? 90% of all jobs going to immigrants when we have over 400,000 on the dole?

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Can you please give me the outline of a solid economic plan that would envolve both an expanding economy achieved with us leaving the EU?.

Sure, implement a work permit system like Germany and Austria for the accession states. When we need foreign workers we will issue them with permits, if we dont, they can go somewhere else.

The free movement of labour from the accession states can be revoked if;

iv) safeguard clause (paragraph 7)

If an old Member State stops using national law measures and moves to free movement of workers under Community law, there is a possibility to re-impose restrictions if there are serious disturbances on the labour market, or the threat thereof. These "safeguard" clauses have always featured in accession Treaties, but have never been invoked. Therefore the Commission has no practical experience in their operation. However, it is clear that the Commission would expect a Member State to put forward convincing proof of a high level of disturbance on the labour market, in order to justify seeking to re-impose a restriction on free movement of workers, one of the four fundamental freedoms under the EC Treaty*. This same comment will apply to the use of the safeguard clause as between the new Member States (under paragraph 11).

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Well, it does to me, because I am Irish even thoug I choose to live and work aborad, and I agree wholehartedly with him. And this is NOT a re-reg.

Oh, but it is. Look at the similarities between NBB Bohs and MarkoPantelic. Same opinions, support the same club, both anti nationalist, and most telling, both make the same spelling errors(indipendent, indeed).

RandolphEsq

A gripe with 'Irish' people being 'occupied' by a 'foreign' government displays a level of 'patriotism'. However, patriotism is not a healthy mindset; it encourages prejudice to the point of racism. Example; being 'annoyed' that 'Irish' people are being 'controlled by a foreign government in their own land' implies a disatisfaction with the 'foreign' occupier, in this case the British. This 'Irish patriot' then holds a grudge, a personal grudge, against British people in general which is of course blatant racism whether or not they care to admit it. We are all citizens of this earth, all equal etc. The sooner this is realised, the better we will all be

PaulieD

ejmaztec wrote: »

Who would you like to see running a united Ireland?

I would leave that to the electorate to decide. One thing is for sure, it would spice up the political sphere. I dare say one or two new parties would form. It would help break down the parish pump civil war rivalries currently ingrained in Irish politics.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

PaulieD wrote: »

Yes he did mention that, cheap labour and the property bubble.

Nice of you to point that out. And irrespective of who is doing the labour, the borrowing, property **** ups and failure to plan ahead are the more major factors of the downturn.

I highly doubt that. Do you think it is sustainable? 90% of all jobs going to immigrants when we have over 400,000 on the dole?

Ask some employers. The East Europeans particualry have VERY good reputations. Employers want profit. They will hire the best, regardless of where it comes from.

Sure, implement a work permit system like Germany and Austria for the accession states. When we need foreign workers we will issue them with permits, if we dont, they can go somewhere else.

The free movement of labour from the accession states can be revoked if;

iv) safeguard clause (paragraph 7)

If an old Member State stops using national law measures and moves to free movement of workers under Community law, there is a possibility to re-impose restrictions if there are serious disturbances on the labour market, or the threat thereof. These "safeguard" clauses have always featured in accession Treaties, but have never been invoked. Therefore the Commission has no practical experience in their operation. However, it is clear that the Commission would expect a Member State to put forward convincing proof of a high level of disturbance on the labour market, in order to justify seeking to re-impose a restriction on free movement of workers, one of the four fundamental freedoms under the EC Treaty*. This same comment will apply to the use of the safeguard clause as between the new Member States (under paragraph 11).

In Germany, all EU workers can come and work visa-free. This includes Eastern Europe. If we invoke the safeguards you mention above, the EU may well revoke some of the money they've been giving Ireland to fund it's infrastructure.

Can't get something for nothing.

Oh, but it is. Look at the similarities between NBB Bohs and MarkoPantelic. Same opinions, support the same club, both anti nationalist, and most telling, both make the same spelling errors(indipendent, indeed).

Misunderstanding - I meant that I'M not a re-reg. Don't know about the other guy(s).

PaulieD

NBB Bohs wrote: »

And sdonn, I am Irish.

Lies make baby Jesus cry, Marko. You where not born in Ireland. Your parents are not Irish. You may live here, but you are not Irish.

ejmaztec

PaulieD wrote: »

I would leave that to the electorate to decide. One thing is for sure, it would spice up the political sphere. I dare say one or two new parties would form. It would help break down the parish pump civil war rivalries currently ingrained in Irish politics.

No, you'd end up with another bunch who couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery, spending more time fighting amongst themselves, whilst 90% of the population would take a hike to distant shores.

Civil war rivalries would be replaced with sectarian rivalries, leading to parish pump politics being replaced with Winchester pump politics.

PaulieD

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Ask some employers. The East Europeans particualry have VERY good reputations. Employers want profit. They will hire the best, regardless of where it comes from.

Sure, implement a work permit system like Germany and Austria for the accession states. When we need foreign workers we will issue them with permits, if we dont, they can go somewhere else.

The free movement of labour from the accession states can be revoked if;

iv) safeguard clause (paragraph 7)

If an old Member State stops using national law measures and moves to free movement of workers under Community law, there is a possibility to re-impose restrictions if there are serious disturbances on the labour market, or the threat thereof. These "safeguard" clauses have always featured in accession Treaties, but have never been invoked. Therefore the Commission has no practical experience in their operation. However, it is clear that the Commission would expect a Member State to put forward convincing proof of a high level of disturbance on the labour market, in order to justify seeking to re-impose a restriction on free movement of workers, one of the four fundamental freedoms under the EC Treaty*. This same comment will apply to the use of the safeguard clause as between the new Member States (under paragraph 11).

In Germany, all EU workers can come and work visa-free. This includes Eastern Europe. If we invoke the safeguards you mention above, the EU may well revoke some of the money they've been giving Ireland to fund it's infrastructure.

Can't get something for nothing.

Now, why would big business be singing the praises of eastern european labour? Would it be that they are cheap?:rolleyes:

Some of them are great workers, just like us Irish. Some are lazy, just like us Irish. Irish workers are just as good as anyone else. In fact, in some sectors, like hospitality, they are much better than immigrants, local knowledge, english speaking etc etc.

In future, please stop peddling lies. Eastern europeans do need a work permit to work in Germany and Austria.

Like Austria, Germany has insisted on continuing restrictions on workers from the former communist states, beyond its eastern borders. Workers from these countries will have to apply for work permits before 2011. However, Germany issued 500,000 of these permits between 2004 and 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3513889.stm

Hagar

Are Portsmouth on the telly anywhere today? :P