Spar putting pictures of "shoplifters" on the door.

jayteecork

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.


I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

Shaneomac

If the shop has enough confidence the person has done so i.e caught redhanded on cctv which is more than likely the case here there is guilty and only guilty to be looked at. It would be different if however the person accused was stopped before they left the shop even if something has been concealed.

My name is URL

Shaneomac wrote: »

If the shop has enough confidence the person has done so i.e caught redhanded on cctv which is more than likely the case here there is guilty and only guilty to be looked at.

Not really, the shop is deeming them to be guilty without any charge being brought against the person

jhegarty

My name is URL wrote: »

Not really, the shop is deeming them to be guilty without any charge being brought against the person

Only the state can deem someone guilty.

What we have here is libel if they can't prove the person is shoplifter. Just stating a fact (he stole from our shop) if they can.

Sir Molle

It's a good idea. There's not much risk of someone innocent being put up there, since it's extremely easy to pick out someone who has shop lifted. Usually the reason you don't catch shop lifters is because you're busy on the tills to go after them legging it out of the shop with crap up their top.

Many a time I've run after them though and got the stuff back. If you have evidence on camera of someone shop lifting or you know that someone has stolen something, it is a really good idea. While, it probably wont shame the majority of shop lifters out of stealing again, it will probably stop a great deal of them.

The majority of people who steal are Roma, Teenagers or people on heavy drugs. If the teenagers are local, they odds are that someone will know them and they will be shamed out of doing it again, how ever the other two groups tend to be rather shameless.

pablomakaveli

They're doing it in a Centra near where i live. They did an article on it in a newspaper (the Examiner i think) and the shopkeeper said he was doing it because there was a large increase in the number of shoplifters in the last few months.

I think its a good idea. They deserve to be shamed.

Corkfeen

Remember a friend in school used to alway shoplift and then his picture appeared on the wall. Fair is fair tbh.

P.C.

You can put pics up of anyone you want, as long as you don't say why you have put the pics up.

I went to a petrol station the other day, and there were pics of cars above the night hatch. I assumed they were pics of people who had stolen petrol, but it did not say - it could have been pics of loyal customer.

Mrmoe

I think it is a very good idea, I know of at least one pub and a cumputer store in Limerick that do this as well. They have big plasma tvs and they have freeze frame pictures of vandals on them caught in the act breaking windows etc. I don't know if they caught or identfied them but at least it's a good way to start fighting back.

rubadub

P.C. wrote: »

You can put pics up of anyone you want, as long as you don't say why you have put the pics up.

Thats what I would have thought. And reading the OP again it seems that is all they might have done.

jayteecork wrote: »

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

So does it specifically say they are shoplifters, or did you just "guess"

AckwelFoley

jhegarty wrote: »

Only the state can deem someone guilty.

What we have here is libel if they can't prove the person is shoplifter. Just stating a fact (he stole from our shop) if they can.

the state cant

The juduicial system and or AH is responsible for that task

Biggins

IF the shop goes to the bother of seeing they go to court and they are found guilty - serve them right!

If the shop catches them but lets them off - they don't deserve to put up their picture.
The thief(s) will just sin again more so and nothing would change lesser so.

As for showing their crimes 'on a loop' on a tv, thats good idea!
Stick a sign under the screen or above it - "IT COULD BE YOU!"

mike65

Anto stares at window for a while, then it clicks - "ah Jasus, Jacinta shops here too, haven't seen her in ages"

jayteecork

rubadub wrote: »

So does it specifically say they are shoplifters, or did you just "guess"

Ok they didn't specifically state it but it's pretty obvious.

I guess Spar have their bases covered by not saying "THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUMBAG THIEVES" on their pictures, lol.

jhegarty

snyper wrote: »

the state cant

The juduicial system and or AH is responsible for that task

The juduicial system is an arm of the state.

Biggins

If they did not take them to court and had them be found guilty, they might be open to slander laws if in the shop they are called a "Shoplifter" out straight.

What shops/businesses could do is to loop such video on a screen(s), showing a possible crime taking place and asking (by text on the screen or nearby sign) the customers if they recognise a face?
Also they can ask "what you see on the screen, is this a crime?" without having to call the person in it an actual "thief" - then let the public see and decide for themselves what happens to these criminals when they get caught on cameras if possible.

Again, if they WERE found guilty in court, yep, post their pic up.
If only for the safety of the staff that might not recognise the thieves should they try and return yet again.

biko

snyper wrote: »

the state cant

The juduicial system and or AH is responsible for that task

AH should replace every jury in Ireland, quick, cheap, merciless and somewhat fair. Death polls ftw

Hal1

Put them in the stocks and **** a load of the rotten fruit & veg at them. That'll learn 'em.

rubadub

jayteecork wrote: »

Ok they didn't specifically state it but it's pretty obvious.

I guess Spar have their bases covered by not saying "THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUMBAG THIEVES" on their pictures, lol.

Maybe obvious to some, but to quote yourself

jayteecork wrote: »

what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

You're the one jumping to assumptions
I think its a great trick if it said nothing I expect it is fully legal, unless it comes under some law about taking photos of people in general.

Shane St.

I think its great idea

TheZohanS

Well Spar have nobody to blame but themselves for the shoplifting that goes on.

Their tagline is "All you need, when you need it. Under the tree at Spar."


It makes no reference to you having enough money to pay for the stuff.

Run_to_da_hills

Shops are leaving themselves wide open to lawsuit unless they have solid proof. They should only be allowed post pictures if the offenders have been convicted by the courts, other than that they are taking the law into their own hands.

Hal1

Plenty garages around the country doing this to stop fuel theft.

Gummy Panda

Does these photos break the data protection act by showing them?

thomond2006

The Banks will be doing it next.

Random Accused Customer: " Hey, that money was only resting in my account."

bitemybanger

the missus used to work in a Spar shop years ago and they did it there too, and they do it because only around 2% of shoplifters who are caught get charged. dunno how true the stats are but it seems plausable

jhegarty

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Shops are leaving themselves wide open to lawsuit unless they have solid proof. They should only be allowed post pictures if the offenders have been convicted by the courts, other than that they are taking the law into their own hands.

If they have video of the shoplifting what lawsuit could they possible loose ?

rubadub

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Shops are leaving themselves wide open to lawsuit unless they have solid proof.

Solid proof of what? they have made no claims.

Run_to_da_hills

jhegarty wrote: »

If they have video of the shoplifting what lawsuit could they possible loose ?

No proof, a person cannot be done for shoplifting until after they leave the premises and at that they miust be caught with the stolen merchandise.

RonMexico

Ha if every shop in the country did this they'd all run out of door space in about 24hrs.

Shoplifting is like a plague in this country. I've seen just about every type of person stealing at this stage.

jhegarty

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No proof, a person cannot be done for shoplifting until [I]after[/I] they leave the premises.

I assume the shoplifter has left the shop when they put the picture up.

raah!

Ho ho! not a bad idea really. In a way it reinstates the type of informal justice systems people enjoy in small towns, where if someone steals something everyone hears and thus revilles the brigand. With this some people from the shop lifters circles must see it sooner or later and be all "heey". Or maybe not, maybe they'd say "aww, you got caught, we're all scumbags"

Now I think it's bad, a kind of vigilante justice. Small towns are ****.

ScumLord

On the one hand I don't trust the state to know what justice is, on the other hand mob justice is the justice of idiots. I have no faith in humanity any more.

It'll all end in tears.

Run_to_da_hills

jhegarty wrote: »

I assume the shoplifter has left the shop when they put the picture up.

No proof, this is where I could see a lawsuit. Since the introduction of the bag levi many customers now bring their own bags. I have often seen customers placing items from the shelves into these bags rather than use trolleys and at the checkout taling them back out and running them through the scanners. Likewise if you place an item in your pocket and take it out at checkout and pay for it you cannot be done.

Sir Molle

I called the gardaí, the station of which is about 100m from the place I work, when I saw some scumbag kid leg it out of the shop with a bottle of wine. They know who she was, and they caught her in the park across the road underage drinking the stolen bottle. She wasn't charged.

All those people claiming we should leave this to the justice system don't really know what they're talking about, because unless you're talking organised shop lifting, like the way the roma do, then nobody will ever get done for it.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No proof, this is where I could see a lawsuit. Since the introduction of the bag levi many customers now bring their own bags. I have often seen customers placing items from the shelves into these bags rather than use trolleys and at the checkout taling them back out and running them through the scanners. Likewise if you place an item in your pocket and take it out at checkout and pay for it you cannot be done.

I don't know why people are crying about the risk of innocent people getting their photos put up. Shop lifters stick out like a sore thumb. People who put things in their own bags instead of using the baskets/trolleys in shops are usually older and naieve. The vast majority of the time they give you the bag to unpack, scan and pack again. It's on par with people bringing their own papers in to a shop and buying stuff. You can tell if someone came in with a paper, and it's just as easy to tell if someone's trying to pass off as having come in with a product when they've picked one up off the shelves in the shop because they're usually very panicky.

rubadub

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No proof, this is where I could see a lawsuit.

Again- proof of what? Did you read what the OP said, the shop made no claims at all.

grenache

jayteecork wrote: »

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.


I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

Fair fcuks to them!


I would love to be able to do the same thing in the off licence i work in. We get the odd scumbag/whino coming in swiping chocolate and the odd can of cider. We print out pictures of them doing it, show them them the pictures, and then bar them. The same scumbags then have the cheek to come back in the next week and act dumb, denying they ever stole anything.

Im sure the stores are fairly sure that the person was shoplifting before they decide to stick their photo up. Chances are if you blatantly stole from a shop, you're not going to go in and argue about it when you see your picture in the window. You'd be hanging yourself, as the store would no doubt call the Gardai.


Seems like a good idea to me.


Power City in Drogheda do it, too.

ScumLord

Sir Molle wrote: »

I don't know why people are crying about the risk of innocent people getting their photos put up. Shop lifters stick out like a sore thumb. People who put things in their own bags instead of using the baskets/trolleys in shops are usually older and naieve. The vast majority of the time they give you the bag to unpack, scan and pack again. It's on par with people bringing their own papers in to a shop and buying stuff. You can tell if someone came in with a paper, and it's just as easy to tell if someone's trying to pass off as having come in with a product when they've picked one up off the shelves in the shop because they're usually very panicky.

Is it? Do shops really watch every person that comes in and what they brought in?

I always bring a bag with me to the shop, fill it up and empty it out at the till.

In small towns like mine it could easily escalate to the point where old folks that don't like the look of some young one accuse them of all kinds of things (behind their back usually).

At the same time shopkeepers shouldn't be afraid to catch the person out there and then. After the fact without prove is bollix, if you think someone is stealing from you on a regular basis it's easy enough to catch them out.

Biggins

Deleted User wrote: »

...Power City in Drogheda do it too.

Correct and have been doing it for some time now.

Sir Molle

ScumLord wrote: »

Is it? Do shops really watch every person that comes in and what they brought in?

I always bring a bag with me to the shop, fill it up and empty it out at the till.

In small towns like mine it could easily escalate to the point where old folks that don't like the look of some young one accuse them of all kinds of things (behind their back usually).

At the same time shopkeepers shouldn't be afraid to catch the person out there and then. After the fact without prove is bollix, if you think someone is stealing from you on a regular basis it's easy enough to catch them out.

I'm aware of most people who are in my shop, and my colleagues are too. While we don't watch every single person, we do watch the suspicious types who wander in (people under the influence of anything, scum bags, roma, large groups of kids, travellers etc.). It's very easy to tell by the demeanor of someone whether they're telling the truth or not about whether they have brought something in to the shop.

ChocolateSauce

I think it is probably illegal, at least until such a time as the accused is found guilty in a court of law, and with good reason I suppose. A shop has a right to refuse admission to anyone, but to claim a person is a criminal is defamation. If the shop has evidence enough to believe a person has stolen from them they should have them arrested and tried, not take matters into their own hands.

What they should do is put their picture up saying they're banned, without giving a reason. This way they're not making a claim, but people will still know.

Sir Molle

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

If the shop has evidence enough to believe a person has stolen from them they should have them arrested and tried, not take matters into their own hands.

It's only the organised shop lifters who ever get arrested/prosecuted. The gardaí usually don't bother with it.

Cianos

In my area people make posters and put them up around the streets, showing photographs of known nazis living in the district, with names and addresses even written on them.

ChocolateSauce

Cianos wrote: »

In my area people make posters and put them up around the streets, showing photographs of known nazis living in the district, with names and addresses even written on them.

The Germans have a perhaps understandable but still misguided and outdated approach to modern Nazism, so this doesn't really surprise me, although it is kind of shocking.

astrofool

The RTE and BBC will always show pictures of suspects of crimes on their shows, how is this any different?

WillieCocker

Good idea.
In fact i would welcome adding small rewards for information on said shoplifter.
If he's a scumbag, you can kill two birds with one stone.:pac:

rubadub

jayteecork wrote: »

Ok they didn't specifically state it

rubadub wrote: »

Solid proof of what? they have made no claims.

rubadub wrote: »

Again- proof of what? Did you read what the OP said, the shop made no claims at all.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I think it is probably illegal, at least until such a time as the accused is found guilty in a court of law, and with good reason I suppose.

What is illegal?? AGAIN- they made NO claims.

Biggins

astrofool wrote: »

The RTE and BBC will always show pictures of suspects of crimes on their shows, how is this any different?

They mention at appropriate times words to the effect "we have CCTV footage of a suspected criminal/thief/murderer, etc..."
The fact that they mention the word "suspected" is not just done for clarification into one category - its also done as to pose an open question - positioning them harder to be sued.

Also...

Its one thing to stick a pic up and put under it "Thief" in a shop without a conviction made.
Stick up a picture of the crime being done, perhaps showing their face and add a sign under it "Thief?" is a different story.

Gummy Panda

rubadub wrote: »

What is illegal?? AGAIN- they made NO claims.

It could be breaking the data protection act by disclosing this information publicly.

Data Protection & CCTV

Biggins

Gummy Panda wrote: »

It could be breaking the data protection act by disclosing this information publicly.

Data Protection & CCTV

Possible, this is true but if the criminal is found guilty in a court of law and subsequently reported in the papers for what he/she did, that leaves the shop owner covered.
They would only further be stating what's already in the public domain.