Spar putting pictures of "shoplifters" on the door.

rubadub

Gummy Panda wrote: »

It could be breaking the data protection act by disclosing this information publicly.

Data Protection & CCTV

Yeah, I wondered about that, and already mentioned that it's the only reason I can think of. All the rest of the posters talking of it being illegal have thought the shop actually has a sign saying they are shoplifters, but they do not.

Aldito

Sir Molle wrote: »

The majority of people who steal are Roma, Teenagers or people on heavy drugs. If the teenagers are local, they odds are that someone will know them and they will be shamed out of doing it again, how ever the other two groups tend to be rather shameless.

Slight generalisation there...

SV

Aldito wrote: »

Slight generalisation there...

not really.
it's very true tbh.

ScouseMouse

Ok.

Any opinions of this scenario.

I have a woman who came into my shop tonight, not once but twice, is on Digital video picking up stuff and walking straight out the door.

The stock is plain to see in her arms but she tilted her body so it was on my blind side, but not the cameras !

How about a big photo saying something like....

Could this lady please speak to the owner about a little matter....

OR


This lady has forgotten to pay for shopping twice in one night, if anyone knows her could you mention this to her to pop back in.....


OR


This lady left twice without paying for groceries......

Gonna burn the video to disk tomorrow and print the face.

stovelid

P.C. wrote: »

You can put pics up of anyone you want, as long as you don't say why you have put the pics up.

Shit.

I thought they were personal ads and left a love letter behind the counter addressed to photo #13 (Cream Air-Max).

gerrycollins

i know a shop that had some serious issues with certain shoplifters about 3 or 4 so they "ran a competition" on saturday and they gave prizes to the 50th, 100th and 150th customer in the shop.

now it was clearly stated that the results would be made known on the following monday and lo and behold what 3 pics did they use but old stills of the suspects and the prize was €100 so it was very tempting.

all 3 were arrested upon their return for their money.

thomasj

In the spar in mulhuddart anyone caught shoplifting is barred from the post office next door. Serious !

orourkeda

jayteecork wrote: »

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.


I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

I'd have thought that getting caught robbing on camera was proof enough.

Aidric

I'd have no objections once they catch my good side.

Namlub

jayteecork wrote: »

I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

The one on McCurtain street by any chance? That's the only place I've noticed it and it's grand I suppose. I'm not entirely sure what they hope to achieve by doing it, I'm sure a lot of shoplifters would be proud to have their picture up. And none of the photos seem to show the person in the act.

jayteecork

Namlub wrote: »

The one on McCurtain street by any chance? That's the only place I've noticed it and it's grand I suppose. I'm not entirely sure what they hope to achieve by doing it, I'm sure a lot of shoplifters would be proud to have their picture up. And none of the photos seem to show the person in the act.

McCurtain St all right.

ascanbe

jayteecork wrote: »

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.

I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

I see they also have an animated version of a crook in their latest ad campaign; alongside Louis Walsh, for some reason.

c4cat

jayteecork wrote: »

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.


I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

I reckon that posters of thieves should be stuck up all around town to shame them all. After all thieving affects us all in higher costs for goods and services passed on to us all as consumers to cover losses. As for Druggies, there should be special clinics set up where they are given their heroin (diamorphine) fixes under supervision. This would do two things, reduce crime cos do not need to fund their habit and put the dealers out of business

Mossy Monk

If some shop keeper decides to put a picture of me on their front window I will happily sue the bollocks off them.

Kintarō Hattori

Mossy Monk wrote: »

If some shop keeper decides to put a picture of me on their front window I will happily sue the bollocks off them.

So you're saying yer a thieving git then? Get outta my shop!

Banter Joe

Mossy Monk wrote: »

If some shop keeper decides to put a picture of me on their front window I will happily sue the bollocks off them.

They took a picture of their shop, their private property, which you had entered at the time of the picture. If they make no claim underneath the picture about you being a thief, what are you planning on suing them for exactly?

Reg'stoy

Mossy Monk wrote: »

If some shop keeper decides to put a picture of me on their front window I will happily sue the bollocks off them.

Why don't we send those nice 'friendly' photogenic people over to your house and ye can all discuss a class action, so when exactly are you in out.

TobyZiegler

In terms of libel - a valid defence is that what you have written/ posted is true. Presumably a video of the person stealing would be plenty of proof and that no shop would be dumb enough to put up a picture without clear CCTV footage.

I dont think that theres the time money or inclination for anyone to go after a shop under the Data Protection Act.

And in terms of it being illegal - I dont know if it is - but the guards dont have time to deal with this either - in the same way that they wont go after the petty thieves themselves.

So all in all I'd say the shopkeepers are pretty safe doing this and I say fair play to them.

Kipperhell

TobyZiegler wrote: »

So all in all I'd say the shopkeepers are pretty safe doing this and I say fair play to them.

The fact they have yet to be sued after doing it for a couple of years pretty much means they are safe.

Our man in Havana

Banter Joe wrote: »

They took a picture of their shop, their private property, which you had entered at the time of the picture. If they make no claim underneath the picture about you being a thief, what are you planning on suing them for exactly?

Violations of the Data Protection Act.

indough

superscouse wrote: »

Ok.

Any opinions of this scenario.

I have a woman who came into my shop tonight, not once but twice, is on Digital video picking up stuff and walking straight out the door.

The stock is plain to see in her arms but she tilted her body so it was on my blind side, but not the cameras !

How about a big photo saying something like....

Could this lady please speak to the owner about a little matter....

OR


This lady has forgotten to pay for shopping twice in one night, if anyone knows her could you mention this to her to pop back in.....


OR


This lady left twice without paying for groceries......

Gonna burn the video to disk tomorrow and print the face.

or how about just dont let her in again?

That_Guy

Did yiz see my bleedin' picture up there yet? I look bleedin' animal so I do.

Our man in Havana

TobyZiegler wrote: »

In terms of libel - a valid defence is that what you have written/ posted is true. Presumably a video of the person stealing would be plenty of proof and that no shop would be dumb enough to put up a picture without clear CCTV footage.

I dont think that theres the time money or inclination for anyone to go after a shop under the Data Protection Act.

And in terms of it being illegal - I dont know if it is - but the guards dont have time to deal with this either - in the same way that they wont go after the petty thieves themselves.

So all in all I'd say the shopkeepers are pretty safe doing this and I say fair play to them.

Kipperhell wrote: »

The fact they have yet to be sued after doing it for a couple of years pretty much means they are safe.

They have probably been lucky up to now and that 99% of the images are of criminals.
It would just take one image of an innocent person to appear to land them in trouble.

Bob Z

Isnt it possible that sometime the shop could make a mistake? And that they will put up the photo of an innocent person?

tubos

Crimewatch or whatever the Irish version is have been posting up photos of people for years who are being sought after for crimes, no difference here really, except the shop owners are doing what the garda prob do'nt have the time or resources to do, actually try to catch shoplifters.

Mossy Monk

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

So you're saying yer a thieving git then? Get outta my shop!

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Why don't we send those nice 'friendly' photogenic people over to your house and ye can all discuss a class action, so when exactly are you in out.

Missed the point of my post completely. If I was a shop lifter then I have every right to be shamed. As I am not a shop lifter no shop keeper has the right to display a picture of me anywhere within their shop unless I first give them my prior consent. Let's face it if this took off and shop keepers all over the country did this then you can bet your life that some will make mistakes.

Let me ask how would the two of you react if any shopkeeper put a snap shot of you taken from a security tape on their window? You wouldn't mind?

Bob Z

tubos wrote: »

Crimewatch or whatever the Irish version is have been posting up photos of people for years who are being sought after for crimes, no difference here really, except the shop owners are doing what the garda prob do'nt have the time or resources to do, actually try to catch shoplifters.

Yes but do crimewatch actually say that this is the person who committed the crime? Do they say they are just looking for this person for enquireys or something? i know its a small difference but still..

The shops are actually saying these people are stealing.

tubos

ok wasn't aware the pictures actually said anything about stealing, the ones I've seen only say, do you know this person?

Altho' it could have been me up there after I forgot to pay for my petrol one day, actually the shop keeper forgot to ring it in, with cash back and groceries I never noticed. I got a call from the gardai about it, and when I went to pay the shop/petrol station had a lovely photo of me putting petrol into the car! I wouldn't have been happy if they had it up behind the desk :eek:

rubadub

Bob Z wrote: »

Isnt it possible that sometime the shop could make a mistake? And that they will put up the photo of an innocent person?

Innocent/guilty of what?, they have made no claims.

Bob Z wrote: »

The shops are actually saying these people are stealing.

Which shops are saying this? From what I read they say nothing at all, it is people like yourself making accusations or jumping to conclusions (though understandably), but the shop are not branding them as thieves. The thing wrong with it is the data protection issue.

Kipperhell

Bond-007 wrote: »

They have probably been lucky up to now and that 99% of the images are of criminals.
It would just take one image of an innocent person to appear to land them in trouble.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it will happen. They probably only stick up the repeat offender and as noted no claim is actually being made.

It is possible for the lottery numbers to be sequential and the odds of it happening are the same as any other numbers but the probability is another point completely.

Bob Z

Ok maybe they arent actually saying they are stealing but by putting up their picture they definetly giving that impression

Ed_

rubadub wrote: »

Innocent/guilty of what?, they have made no claims.

Which shops are saying this? From what I read they say nothing at all, it is people like yourself making accusations or jumping to conclusions (though understandably), but the shop are not branding them as thieves. The thing wrong with it is the data protection issue.

It is perfectly legal for any shop to place pictures of random people on public display and not say what the pictures are there for? They do not need to seek permission first to do so?

Bob Z

Kipperhell wrote: »

J
It is possible for the lottery numbers to be sequential and the odds of it happening are the same as any other numbers but the probability is another point completely.

Yes but it still happens though people win the lotto every week. So sooner or later they bound to pick on an innocent person

Our man in Havana

Even if the picture says nothing underneath, they would need the subjects permission.
A thieving scumbag is unlikely to complain.

Our man in Havana

Ed_ wrote: »

It is perfectly legal for any shop to place pictures of random people on public display and not say what the pictures are there for? They do not need to seek permission first to do so?

Yes they do.

Bob Z

tubos wrote: »

ok wasn't aware the pictures actually said anything about stealing, the ones I've seen only say, do you know this person?

Altho' it could have been me up there after I forgot to pay for my petrol one day, actually the shop keeper forgot to ring it in, with cash back and groceries I never noticed. I got a call from the gardai about it, and when I went to pay the shop/petrol station had a lovely photo of me putting petrol into the car! I wouldn't have been happy if they had it up behind the desk :eek:

Even though it was their mistake if you hadnt benn in touch witht the Gardai woukld they have put the photo up?

ascanbe

tubos wrote: »

Crimewatch or whatever the Irish version is have been posting up photos of people for years who are being sought after for crimes, no difference here really, except the shop owners are doing what the garda prob do'nt have the time or resources to do, actually try to catch shoplifters.

As far as i'm aware, Crimeline, I think it's called, works in conjunction with the Gardai; the Gardai are investigating these crimes and the programme is used to appeal to the public.
Shopkeepers acting as judge and jury isn't really the same thing.

Kipperhell

Bob Z wrote: »

Yes but it still happens though people win the lotto every week. So sooner or later they bound to pick on an innocent person

People do not win the lottery with sequential numbers every week:rolleyes: You really missed the point! People don't win the lottery every week anyway.

I doubt it will be either sooner nor later but it is possible but extremely unlikely. I worked with retail companies and the pictures posted up were of people repeatedly filmed. I doubt there will ever be a one time offender getting a picture posted up from my experience. Are you basing your theory on anything other than possibility?

Turty3

There's a Mace store in Beaumont where I saw photos of people who've been banned from the store on a wall facing the customer when paying!

Bob Z

Kipperhell wrote: »

I doubt it will be either sooner nor later but it is possible but extremely unlikely. I worked with retail companies and the pictures posted up were of people repeatedly filmed. I doubt there will ever be a one time offender getting a picture posted up from my experience. Are you basing your theory on anything other than possibility?

No. But i thinks thats enough to base it on. Human Error. Miscommunication. People can make mistakes.

Bob Z

Ok from reading this thread i get the impressession that shopkeepers can put up photos of people who they think is stealing as long they dont actually say that. Is that correct? But if they put a notice this saying this person is a thief(without proof) then they could get sued. Is that correct?

Our man in Havana

Bob Z wrote: »

Ok from reading this thread i get the impressession that shopkeepers can put up photos of people who they think is stealing as long they dont actually say that. Is that correct? But if they put a notice this saying this person is a thief(without proof) then they could get sued. Is that correct?

Not entirely.

If they put up any image in a place where the public can see them, they are in violation of the Data Protection Act unless they sought the permission of the subject.
If they say these are Septembers thieves unless they have proof, they can be sued.

If they put them up in a private place there is little that can be done.

Kipperhell

Bob Z wrote: »

No. But i thinks thats enough to base it on. Human Error. Miscommunication. People can make mistakes.

So do you wear a safety helmet walking down the street? It is possible a satellite could fall on your head but not probable! It is a big jump to assume human error possibilities will definitely happen in sequence to make an event.

I await the wining mythical court case along with the proof of a Christian god comfortable in the knowledge it is not going to happen. As the shops have legal advice I think they are comfortable with their decision too.

Bob Z

Bond-007 wrote: »

Not entirely.

If they put up any image in a place where the public can see them, they are in violation of the Data Protection Act unless they sought the permission of the subject.
If they say these are Septembers thieves unless they have proof, they can be sued.

If they put them up in a private place there is little that can be done.

But its not illegal to put up a photo of someone in public or in private.

Bob Z

Kipperhell wrote: »

So do you wear a safety helmet walking down the street? It is possible a satellite could fall on your head but not probable! It is a big jump to assume human error possibilities will definitely happen in sequence to make an event.

I await the wining mythical court case along with the proof of a Christian god comfortable in the knowledge it is not going to happen. As the shops have legal advice I think they are comfortable with their decision too.

Already in this thread a couple of pages back there is someone who said that they got a phonecall from the Guards because the shopkeeper forgot to ring the money through

If i were you i would start wearing that safety helmet and doing the lotto now:D

Abelloid

jayteecork wrote: »

As you walk into my local Spar, there are pictures of persons leaving the premises, recorded on the store security cameras.

These are pictures of people of people Spar deemed to have been shoplifting and have posted their pictures in the hope of disgracing them i guess.

While I don't think this is a bad idea per se, I'm just wondering about the legaility of the whole idea.
I mean, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

It's pretty serious posting someone's picture on a shopfront claiming them to be a thief without the benefit of proof.


I've noticed this practice in a Spar in Cork city too.

Is that Little Island? I think it's a great idea, when I saw the pics there was no text.

No text - no accusation?

Our man in Havana

Still against the law.

But its not illegal to put up a photo of someone in public or in private.

It is.

This is after hours and it is like beating ones head off a brick wall trying to make a point.

thomond2006

Bond-007 wrote: »

This is after hours and it is like beating ones head off a brick wall trying to make a point.

lol

Bob Z

Bond-007 wrote: »

Still against the law.


It is.

This is after hours and it is like beating ones head off a brick wall trying to make a point.

SO all them photos you see in the local shop of award ceremonies people gone missing are illegal?

Kipperhell

Bob Z wrote: »

Already in this thread a couple of pages back there is someone who said that they got a phonecall from the Guards because the shopkeeper forgot to ring the money through

So no photo put up?

I know how the process works with one big chain and I know that the photos put up are generally people they convict. The other photos being of people they want to catch/deter due to repeat footage. Many places use security companies to review footage also.

You seem to have the impression they are completely reckless. No matter your opinion they aren't going to stop doing it due to the reduction in shop lifting once a picture is put up. :P