'Tyrone village driven mad by British army helicopters'

DoireNod

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Please explain how this is an imperial war?

That's a matter of opinion I suppose.

Rebelheart

prinz wrote: »

My point has been proven. Thanks.

Yes, in the world according to Prinz the loyalists who want the British presence in Ireland should be spared having to deal with that presence, but the nationalists who do not want that occupation should have to deal with it.

That is sheer and arrant bigotry on your part. You're an apologist if ever there were one.

Fratton Fred

DoireNod wrote: »

That's a matter of opinion I suppose.

you know what they say about opinions.

Rebelheart

Fratton Fred wrote: »

you know what they say about opinions.

You know what they say about the British making wars under the pretence of "civilisation", "democracy" and selflessness.

Rebelheart

JohnThomas09 wrote: »

Northern Ireland is still part of Britain.

Is it now? So, pray tell, when did this ice age happen? Last night?

prinz

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yes, in the world according to Prinz the loyalists who want the British presence in Ireland should be spared having to deal with that presence, but the nationalists who do not want that occupation should have to deal with it.

That is sheer and arrant bigotry on your part. You're an apologist if ever there were one.

As opposed to the opening post which seemed more than happy if the situation was reversed..... hmm but you're not a bigot right?

Rebelheart

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the British Army use extra loud helicoptors in NI just to scare the cows.:D

Oh hilarious altogether.

Rebelheart

prinz wrote: »

As opposed to the opening post which seemed more than happy if the situation was reversed

Er, yes: it's called justice. If the loyalists want the British state in Ireland, then they should suffer from it. Nationalists do not want that state in Ireland so accordingly they should not suffer from it.

Duh.

nowuckenfurries

The BA have been "Training" :pac: in the Ardboe area for years, once in the 90's I remember sitting at a dinner table in a house I was staying in when a chinook landed in the field behind the house & a dozen or so BA soldiers came tearing out and through the back garden of the house! :eek:

The airfield in Adrboe is & has been deserted for a few decades, the runway is unuseable due to the very large potholes / craters...

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=26584

Most of the locals when I stayed there pretty much ignored any BA activity, I don't think even the cows took much notice either!:cool:

Rebelheart

prinz wrote: »

.... hmm but you're not a bigot right?

Quite clearly and unmistakably you are the bigot, attempting to justify the British military occupation of nationalist areas, where that force is deeply unwelcome, distrusted and illegitimate in the eyes of the community, and defend its absence from loyalist areas, where that force has legitimacy (apparently).

Fratton Fred

Rebelheart wrote: »

You know what they say about the British making wars under the pretence of "civilisation", "democracy" and selflessness.

I ask again, why is the war in Afghanistan an imperial war and why, if it is just the "British making wars under the pretence of "civilisation", "democracy" and selflessness" is it supported by the UN, 42 world governments and, more relevant to this thread, the Irish government?

Here is the list, Ireland can be found under the heading Non-Nato countries (14) in case you have trouble finding it.

prinz

Rebelheart wrote: »

Quite clearly and unmistakably you are the bigot, attempting to justify the British military occupation of nationalist areas, where that force is deeply unwelcome, distrusted and illegitimate in the eyes of the community.....

How did I attempt to justify anything? :pac:. It's not military occupation btw whatever your own feelings are. You can call it what you like but the BA has an inalienable right to train anywhere in the UK... and yes the UK includes Northern Ireland.

Rebelheart wrote: »

....and defend its absence from loyalist areas, where that force has legitimacy (apparently).

Again I did no such thing :pac:. What I said was it wouldn't bother me either way. I don't care who they fly over. Nationalist or loyalist. You think it's ok to fly over one and not over the other... that's a bigot. I couldn't care less what those up in the UK get up to at night.

Benster

Odd to hear so many people get disgusted on behalf of others over such an insignificant event (in NI terms). I don't hear any howls of protest over the constant rattling of machine-gun target practice at Ballykinler army base or the continuing deployment of heavily-armed police, which also make this so-called normalised society abnormal. Guys, there are much worse things happening up here that you could get vexed about, so less of the fake bluster over a few helicopters.

If you're going to give out about this, I hope your letter of complaint to the British govt is in the same pile as your letters of complaint to the Chinese govt over their treatment of Tibetans, Iran over it's torture of it's own people, etc, etc, etc, because this is NOTHING.

I grew up with helicopters for the first 25 years of my life. They gave me less reason to fear for my life than the time I was nearly killed by joy-riders on the Andytown road in Belfast. (and that's still going on, btw, complain about that instead, will ye?)

B.

Rebelheart

jmayo wrote: »

When can people get this through their heads, you are living in a dfiferent country

I suppose for the really outrageous reason that it's not a "different country", no more than Dublin or Cork were in a "different country" prior to 6 December 1922.


It may be under the rule of a different state at present, but to say it is no longer part of Ireland because of that current situation is akin to saying that all of Ireland stopped being a country and no longer existed when it was under British rule.




Homework for tonight: learn the difference between 'state' and 'country'. All the Protestant churches and the Orange Order, which are all based on an all-Ireland framework, clearly appreciate this difference.

oscarBravo

If I have to lock this thread because of handbaggery, there will be bannings.

Rebelheart

Benster wrote: »

Odd to hear so many people get disgusted on behalf of others over such an insignificant event (in NI terms). I don't hear any howls of protest over the constant rattling of machine-gun target practice at Ballykinler army base or the continuing deployment of heavily-armed police, which also make this so-called normalised society abnormal. Guys, there are much worse things happening up here that you could get vexed about, so less of the fake bluster over a few helicopters.

If you're going to give out about this, I hope your letter of complaint to the British govt is in the same pile as your letters of complaint to the Chinese govt over their treatment of Tibetans, Iran over it's torture of it's own people, etc, etc, etc, because this is NOTHING.

I grew up with helicopters for the first 25 years of my life. They gave me less reason to fear for my life than the time I was nearly killed by joy-riders on the Andytown road in Belfast. (and that's still going on, btw, complain about that instead, will ye?)

B.

Oh I'm so sorry for not thinking and feeling exactly as you do about things that are important to you. Wow, imagine that. Perhaps you can go around all the forums and tell everybody to think as you do about issues that matter to you because otherwise they are just not as enlightened as you.

PS: And if you really gave a damn about the Tibetans, you'd be doing more than sitting on your arse here. You're not exactly a Tibetan Caoimhe Butterly, are you.

PPS: Then there's world hunger ....

jonoliver28

Rebelheart wrote: »

From yesterday's Sunday Tribune (available online today here: http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/aug/09/tyrone-village-driven-mad-by-british-army-helicopt/):

Suzanne Breen, Northern Editor

Afghanistan: not Tyrone

Residents are demanding that the British army stop using a Co Tyrone village as a training centre for its war in Afghanistan. They say that family life and farming activity are being destroyed by low-flying helicopters late at night.


The Irish government has been asked to raise the issue with Downing Street.


"Two nights this week, my family's sleep has been disrupted and my children terrified," said Ardboe farmer Dermott McKenna (35).


"A helicopter hovered about 100 feet above our house at 11.45pm on Monday. The noise was deafening. I have three young children – aged between two and eight. They were terrified. They awoke crying – they didn't know what was happening.


"The following night, the helicopter began hovering overhead at 12.40am. It stayed there about half an hour. My cows were so frightened they ran through a fence. Thankfully, they ended up in another field and not on the road.


"The cattle were spooked by the whole experience and have been difficult to handle."


A local second world war aerodrome, near the shores of Lough Neagh, is used by the British army. SDLP assembly member Patsy McGlone said: "People had enough of military activity in this area during the Troubles.


"They thought a decent night's sleep would be part of the peace dividend. They don't want low-flying helicopters nor anything to do with a war which they don't support.


"British military spokesmen tell us how important this training is for operations in Afghanistan. There are very few Arabs and no sand in Ardboe. We have no connection with this war and no interest in being connected to it.


"These helicopters are intruding on a quiet, rural community. All Ardboe wants is to be able to sleep at night so the British army should find somewhere else to do its training."


McGlone has contacted the Northern Ireland Office about the issue and also asked the Irish government to intervene.


Dermott McKenna said he had spoken to the British Ministry of Defence after heavy helicopter activity last year. "I've already explained to the MoD that my children are terrified because they hear this horrendous noise in the dark and don't know where it's coming from.


"At night, that's impossible. The British military are doing this to piss us off. There are plenty of less populated places in Britain for them do their training where they would be wanted and wouldn't be disturbing anybody."


August 9, 2009

---

Where is Sinn Féin in all this? Is the SDLP the only political party in the community opposing it? Where has all that talk about demilitarisation gone now when British troops are organising and training here (and Sinn Féin is the largest nationalist party in government)?

At the very least, if the British want to impose more of their war machine in Ireland, it would only be fair that loyalist villages and the loyalist community are kept up night after night by this product of their self-confessed British "loyalty". But that would ruin the "fun", wouldn't it. Making Irish people suffer for yet another British occupation of a foreign land is simply a massive two fingers to the entire constituency that Sinn Féin claims to represent.

Yet again, Irish-Ireland is the dumping ground for the most despicable elements of British society, the plebian underclass that serve as its footsoldiers in foreign lands. This is deliberate provocation of the native Irish community by a foreign force which is, obviously, deeply resented in the community. [font=&quot]Plus ça change, plus c'est la même.[/font]

So, how do Britain's apologists here justify this one, and how do Sinn Féin voters justify the party's silence on it? I've already written to Mícheál Martin about it.

Personally, I am british and i think there is more underlying issues with you, i think this is just giving you an oppertunity to sprout off more of your nonesense, i dont believe the british army or the raf where hovering over your house at 100 foot, in fact you most likely making it up.

There is a legal requirement for all military aircraft to maintain a certain amount of feet from the ground over residential propertys and let me tell you, its certainly more then 100ft, the only time this goes ignored is if we are at war or on operations and then its justified by the british government.

However what the hell has military operations got to do with training in ireland, especially when its part of the british isles:)

I liver in Lincolnshire all my life and moved within the last 5 years, night after night the sound of military jets, jaguars, tornados, eurofighters, its part of our armed forces and i for one are proud of them and can even train over my back garden as i have no problems, its extremley rare the raf or the british army to break the law, whilst mouthing off here, why dont you do something constructive and contact the air authority or local authority and log an official complaint over the airspace violations they have commited, all training flights are logged and certain height is mandatory for any pilot, so with regards to a 100foot, i dont believe you

Fratton Fred

Rebelheart wrote: »

Oh I'm so sorry for not thinking and feeling exactly as you do about things that are important to you. Wow, imagine that. Perhaps you can go around all the forums and tell everybody to think as you do about issues that matter to you because otherwise they are just not as enlightened as you.

excellent advice.

jmayo

Rebelheart wrote: »

I suppose for the really outrageous reason that it's not a "different country", no more than Dublin or Cork were in a "different country" prior to 6 December 1922.


It may be under the rule of a different state at present, but to say it is no longer part of Ireland because of that current situation is akin to saying that all of Ireland stopped being a country and no longer existed when it was under British rule.

Homework for tonight: learn the difference between 'state' and 'country'. All the Protestant churches and the Orange Order, which are all based on an all-Ireland framework, clearly appreciate this difference.

State, country, whatever :rolleyes:
What has it got to do with the government in Dublin or any of us that happen to live in this "state" ?

Using your argument maybe someone should complain to Gordon Brown about the Gardaí present in Rossport :rolleyes:
Afterall they are seen as an oppressive occupying force by some locals :rolleyes:

PS someone will have to tell the sports commentators to refer to the teams as playing for a state rather than a country at the next world cup.

Rebelheart

prinz wrote: »

How did I attempt to justify anything? :pac:. It's not military occupation btw whatever your own feelings are.

The British military is occupying the area but it's not a "military occupation". Wow, I wonder what side you're on.

prinz wrote: »

Again I did no such thing :pac:. I don't care who they fly over. Nationalist or loyalist. You think it's ok to fly over one and not over the other... that's a bigot. I couldn't care less what those up in the UK get up to at night.

Actually you clearly did express your approval for imposing these people on an Irish nationalist community when you know they are deeply resented there. Furthermore, you want the nationalist community to suffer from the loyalist choice to have British rule in this part of Ireland. A person who is not displaying bigotry would ensure that those who want the British presence - loyalists - should pay the price and those who do not want it - nationalists - should not be forced to pay the price.

It really is that simple to be fair-minded and free from bigotry. Try it.

oscarBravo

Rebelheart is banned for being incapable of having a polite discussion.

Anyone else who wants to have a bitchfest instead of a conversation will follow suit.

jmayo

jonoliver28 wrote: »

Personally, I am british and i think there is more underlying issues with you, i think this is just giving you an oppertunity to sprout off more of your nonesense, i dont believe the british army or the raf where hovering over your house at 100 foot, in fact you most likely making it up.

...
However what the hell has military operations got to do with training in ireland, especially when its part of the british isles:)

Are you trying to start WW III around here :eek:

Rebelheart wrote: »

...
Actually you clearly did express your approval for imposing these people on an Irish nationalist community when you know they are deeply resented there. Furthermore, you want the nationalist community to suffer from the loyalist choice to have British rule in this part of Ireland. A person who is not displaying bigotry would ensure that those who want the British presence - loyalists - should pay the price and those who do not want it - nationalists - should not be forced to pay the price.

I think they will find it mighty hard to just move around flying over only loyalist houses

This whole story seems a but off to me.
I do know that BA helicopters often have flown low both in Northern Ireland and in Europe (where pilots got their knuckles wrapped over it), but I find it hard to believe they are in a hover 100ft above someones house in the middle of the night :rolleyes:
There are just a few too many unknowns in this story.

Deedsie

jmayo wrote: »

When can people get this through their heads, you are living in a dfiferent country, you pay taxes to a different exchequer (sadly), you draw the dole from a different exchequer (thankfully), you have a different government and thus the one to go complain to are in Westminister (with your own offshoot in Belfast), not the bunch of muppets that sits now and again in the Dáil in Dublin.

They are Irish Citizens if that be there choosing it doesnt matter if they were born North of the Border. They are citizens of Ireland. Have a read of the Good Friday agreement will you before you start spouting off again please.

Would you have the same ignortant attitude towards illegal Irish Immigrant in the US?

jonoliver28

neil_hosey wrote: »

Im from Finglas, i know what its like to live under a helicopter... and thats why i can relate. The garda helicopter doesnt sit 100 feet over your house now does it??? And the garda hasnt been an oppressive force in north dublin for years now has it????


"do you??" ... do i what????

Actually, i live in tallaght and coming back in the early hours from work, you can clearly see a garda helicopter hovering over 300ft for nearly 30 mins, but i dont mind, cos at least i know they are there for a reason and carrying out there business.

Its just a helicopter and people should just relax and stop brit bashing all the time it becomes quite boring after a while "yawn" its not as if its every night its handful of times ayear, big deal

oscarBravo

Deedsie wrote: »

They are Irish Citizens if that be there choosing it doesnt matter if they were born North of the Border. They are citizens of Ireland.

They may be Irish citizens, but they live in the United Kingdom, and their issue is with the armed forces of the United Kingdom conducting training exercises in the United Kingdom. I think it's clear which government they should be talking to.

Would you have the same ignortant attitude towards illegal Irish Immigrant in the US?

If illegal Irish in the US wanted the Irish government to ask the US government to stop conducting military exercises near them, I suspect the Irish government would tell them where to go.

jonoliver28

jmayo wrote: »

Are you trying to start WW III around here :eek:



I think they will find it mighty hard to just move around flying over only loyalist houses

This whole story seems a but off to me.
I do know that BA helicopters often have flown low both in Northern Ireland and in Europe (where pilots got their knuckles wrapped over it), but I find it hard to believe they are in a hover 100ft above someones house in the middle of the night :rolleyes:
There are just a few too many unknowns in this story.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
a helicopter is just a helicopter,

jmayo

Deedsie wrote: »

They are Irish Citizens if that be there choosing it doesnt matter if they were born North of the Border. They are citizens of Ireland. Have a read of the Good Friday agreement will you before you start spouting off again please.

Would you have the same ignortant attitude towards illegal Irish Immigrant in the US?

And as pointed out quiet rightly by oB below they are LIVING in another state (country or jurisdiction just to satisfy rebelheats semantics) and it doesn't matter how many Good Friday Agreements you or I read.
It is not a dual mandate, as oppsed to what some people think.

Would you support British citizens living in the Republic of Ireland complaining to the British government about our army or gardaí ?

oscarBravo wrote: »

They may be Irish citizens, but they live in the United Kingdom, and their issue is with the armed forces of the United Kingdom conducting training exercises in the United Kingdom. I think it's clear which government they should be talking to. If illegal Irish in the US wanted the Irish government to ask the US government to stop conducting military exercises near them, I suspect the Irish government would tell them where to go.

Thank you.

Deedsie

Alot of the nationalist community in the North feel alienated by the British government. They recognise themselves as Irish. I as an Irish citizen only wish our government would do its rightful duty and where it is appropriate be seen to stand up for Irish citizens living in the North.

It is not a black and white situation up there. We must all be aware of that.

Joey the lips

This is a very funny post. I have been following it from the start and i have to say its good to see that nobody has fallen for the bate. This has nothing to do really with helicopters over houses, This has always been a problem in armagh and tyrone and will continue while the brits are in ireland.

This is an attempt by the op to try and discredit sinn fein. Granted many of the people on this site think that this is not necessary but it is plainly obvious if you follow the op's post previously.

What i am failing to see is rather than constantly try discredit someone who s/he sees as there political apponent why dont they try introduce the world to some of there suggestions of how they propose to deal with helicoptors over sheep and cows and the odd donkey.

Oh i forgot its easier to discredit than to actually gain support!

oscarBravo

Deedsie wrote: »

Alot of the nationalist community in the North feel alienated by the British government. They recognise themselves as Irish.

My brother lives in London. He feels alienated by the British government (as do most English people). He recognises himself as Irish.

Do you think he should ask the Irish government to put in a word with Gordon Brown on his behalf?

If the British government asked the Irish government not to conduct military exercises on Achill because it was annoying some English people who lived there, the Irish government should tell the British government to get bent. The opposite is equally the case.