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'Tyrone village driven mad by British army helicopters'

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    #122
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    dvpower wrote: »
    What exactly do they think the helicopters are going to do to them?

    Psychological terror, make there lives miserable.

    Thats what happens when there is deafening noise keeping you and your kids awake at night, and then add in its that a military flying machine with guns.


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    #123
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Right, Northern Ireland is part of the UK but the Good Friday Agreement did happen. People born there have recognised right to identify themselves as Irish by the rulers of the land, therefore it doesn't seem too odd to me that the Irish Government could make representations for them to those rulers.


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    #124
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gurramok wrote: »
    Psychological terror, make there lives miserable.

    Thats what happens when there is deafening noise keeping you and your kids awake at night, and then add in its that a military flying machine with guns.

    Are the people seriously worried that the helicopters are going to attack them?


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    #125
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    dvpower wrote: »
    Are the people seriously worried that the helicopters are going to attack them?

    To be honest it has not happened in the last few years so it is slim.

    It can happen if a kid inadvertently points that toy gun out the window as the pilots on board will have difficulty figuring out if its real or not. Anything can happen in the heat of the moment with trigger alert soldiers/pilots.

    Regarding the first and main point, its the noise that is the primary terror weapon at hand.


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    #126
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    dvpower wrote: »
    Are the people seriously worried that the helicopters are going to attack them?
    Maybe, who knows? That's not the point though. The helicopter shouldn't be there, end of story.


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    #127
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand the reasons for the objection.

    Is it the noise? I could understand the objection to the noise of overflying helicopters. I would have expected that there would be local legislation that should cover this and not something that the Irish Government should be getting involved with.

    Is it the fact that it is the British Army and they just don't want to see the British Army strutting its stuff?


    Is it because they are against the war in Afghanistan? Now, I know the Irish Government aren't going to go there.


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    #128
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gurramok wrote: »
    It can happen if a kid inadvertently points that toy gun out the window as the pilots on board will have difficulty figuring out if its real or not. Anything can happen in the heat of the moment with trigger alert soldiers/pilots.

    I could understand this at the height of the troubles, but not these days. The crews are training for deployment in Afghanistan, not carrying out active missions in NI.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Regarding the first and main point, its the noise that is the primary terror weapon at hand.

    Your phrasing reveals your bias.


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    #129
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Originally Posted by Dermott McKenna
    "I've already explained to the MoD that my children are terrified because they hear this horrendous noise in the dark and don't know where it's coming from.


    "At night, that's impossible. The British military are doing this to piss us off. There are plenty of less populated places in Britain for them do their training where they would be wanted and wouldn't be disturbing anybody."


    This is what the farmer himself thinks.


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    #130
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    dvpower wrote: »
    I could understand this at the height of the troubles, but not these days. The crews are training for deployment in Afghanistan, not carrying out active missions in NI.

    Just because there is peace and the guns are silent up there does not mean that gives legitimacy for them to carry out non-essential operations at 1am at night over a nationalist family's heads considering the history of that army's involvement in NI.

    They are still opposed by the political reps of the nationalist people, SF and SDLP. And likewise, Unionists/loyalists vehemently oppose anything Irish related. Hence, its peace without the guns.
    dvpower wrote:
    Your phrasing reveals your bias.

    Bias about the truth? Put yourself as living in Ardboe and you're a nationalist with a young family been psycholgically terrorised at night by this noise and then you understand.


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    #131
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dvpower wrote: »
    I could understand this at the height of the troubles, but not these days. The crews are training for deployment in Afghanistan, not carrying out active missions in NI.



    Your phrasing reveals your bias.


    par for the course dv, par for the course.


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    #132
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Dermott McKenna


    This is what the farmer himself thinks.

    The farmer thinks that the British Army are carrying out expensive exercises using helicopters just to piss off local residents? That's paranoia if I've ever seen it.


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    #133
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    People have taken this a bit too far in some cases.

    It's simple. The family aren't happy with a helicopter flying low at close proximity to their home at unsociable hours. That helicopter also happens to be a British Army helicopter.

    The fact it's a British Army helicopter is largely irrelevant, but it makes for another valid point that the people of Ireland are already quite sensitive to the British Army's presence in Ireland. But it's easy to see that this isn't what colours the shades of their discontent. They'd still be annoyed if it wasn't a British Army helicopter.


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    #134
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    dvpower wrote: »
    The farmer thinks that the British Army are carrying out expensive exercises using helicopters just to piss off local residents? That's paranoia if I've ever seen it.
    I think that may be his frustration coming through. It's obvious that the point he's emphasising is that there are plenty other alternatives in Britain for the British Army.


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    #135
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gurramok wrote: »
    Just because there is peace and the guns are silent up there does not mean that gives legitimacy for them to carry out non-essential operations at 1am at night over a nationalist family's heads considering the history of that army's involvement in NI.

    I think they have a legitimate complaint on noise disturbance grounds...

    gurramok wrote: »
    Bias about the truth? Put yourself as living in Ardboe and you're a nationalist with a young family been psycholgically terrorised at night by this noise and then you understand.

    ... but describing this as deliberate psychological terrorism is a bit off the wall.


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    #136
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    DoireNod wrote: »
    People have taken this a bit too far in some cases.

    It's simple. The family aren't happy with a helicopter flying low at close proximity to their home at unsociable hours. That helicopter also happens to be a British Army helicopter.

    The fact it's a British Army helicopter is largely irrelevant, but it makes for another valid point that the people of Ireland are already quite sensitive to the British Army's presence in Ireland. But it's easy to see that this isn't what colours the shades of their discontent. They'd still be annoyed if it wasn't a British Army helicopter.


    Big difference being of course that the BA are there on legitimate business unlike a pvt machine.

    Bit like being annoyed by Garda presence in a situation and being annoyed by a boy racer going up and down the road.


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    #137
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    dvpower wrote: »
    I think they have a legitimate complaint on noise disturbance grounds...

    Glad we've got this far.
    dvpower wrote:
    ... but describing this as deliberate psychological terrorism is a bit off the wall.

    Then why don't they stop and apologise?

    If this was a village in Lincolnshire, you'd be damn sure the incident would not even take place.


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    #138
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    DoireNod wrote: »
    People have taken this a bit too far in some cases.

    It's simple. The family aren't happy with a helicopter flying low at close proximity to their home at unsociable hours. That helicopter also happens to be a British Army helicopter.

    The fact it's a British Army helicopter is largely irrelevant, but it makes for another valid point that the people of Ireland are already quite sensitive to the British Army's presence in Ireland. But it's easy to see that this isn't what colours the shades of their discontent. They'd still be annoyed if it wasn't a British Army helicopter.

    imo, the locals should have raised the complaint on noise grounds alone. But going on about not supporting the war in Afghanistan just damages their credibility. And bringing in the fact that the British Army are unwanted just polarises the situation.


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    #139
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    dvpower wrote: »
    imo, the locals should have raised the complaint on noise grounds alone. But going on about not supporting the war in Afghanistan just damages their credibility. And bringing in the fact that the British Army are unwanted just polarises the situation.
    They have raised the complaint to be fair and I would excuse their frustration, as I'd be similarly annoyed if it was me in the same situation. The fact that it's the British Army adds another dimension just. People polarise it to suit them, but I don't think that the residents concerned in this case do - they just want a decent night's sleep and for their livestock to not be spooked.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Big difference being of course that the BA are there on legitimate business unlike a pvt machine.

    Bit like being annoyed by Garda presence in a situation and being annoyed by a boy racer going up and down the road.
    Not really. The farmer's complaint is completely legitimate.


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    #140
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    DoireNod wrote: »
    T


    Not really. The farmer's complaint is completely legitimate.

    Thee complaint may be legitimate but the circumstances are different.


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    #141
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Thee complaint may be legitimate but the circumstances are different.
    You could argue the 'legitimacy' of the British Army's presence in Tyrone all day, but it does not take away from the fact that the farmer is correct. There are plenty of alternatives available to the British Army. Why they feel the need to be aggravating Irish people (or anyone for that matter) when they could be in a completely uninhabited area in England is beyond both myself and farmer McKenna.


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    #142
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    What is going on is harrassment, pure and simple. If we hadn't gotten rid of them from down here 80+ years, they be at the same **** here. I can never understand why British people think they are something to be proud of


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    #143
    timberland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭timberland


    ArseBurger wrote: »
    You'd think they'd approach their own government first before asking another country to get involved.

    another country?????


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    #144
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    and on and on it goes, round and round, and round and round.

    Blowing so much hot air on a message board...


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    #145
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    IIMII wrote: »
    I can never understand why British people think they are something to be proud of

    I can never understand why Irish, German, French, etc. people think they are something to be proud of.

    It's a line on a map. Big-fcking-deal.


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    #146
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    mike65 wrote: »
    and on and on it goes, round and round, and round and round.

    Blowing so much hot air on a message board...

    Enough about yourself ;)


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    #147
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    har har!

    Seriously though, no one shouting their mouth off here will change anything up there, the Irish gubberment won't be much interested in sticking an oar in.


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    #148
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    mike65 wrote: »
    har har!

    Stop laughing, they'll be complaining about the ROFLcopters next!


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    #149
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    mike65 wrote: »
    har har!

    Seriously though, no one shouting their mouth off here will change anything up there...
    That's debatable. It could be said that discussion of these events in an internet forum can be productive and raises public awareness.
    IRLConor wrote: »
    Stop laughing, they'll be complaining about the ROFLcopters next!
    Very good!:D

    Still though, for farmer McKenna and his family, it's not a laughing matter. It may be in years to come.


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    #150
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    IRLConor wrote: »
    I can never understand why Irish, German, French, etc. people think they are something to be proud of.

    It's a line on a map. Big-fcking-deal.
    Not the people. Their poxy army


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    #151
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    JohnThomas09 wrote: »
    Northern Ireland is still part of Britain.Why would the Irish government bother with an issue like this??

    Northern Ireland is actually not a part of Britain.
    Britain (or Great Britain) is comprised of Scotland, England and Wales.

    jonoliver28 wrote: »
    Personally, I am british and i think there is more underlying issues with you, i think this is just giving you an oppertunity to sprout off more of your nonesense, i dont believe the british army or the raf where hovering over your house at 100 foot, in fact you most likely making it up.

    There is a legal requirement for all military aircraft to maintain a certain amount of feet from the ground over residential propertys and let me tell you, its certainly more then 100ft, the only time this goes ignored is if we are at war or on operations and then its justified by the british government.

    However what the hell has military operations got to do with training in ireland, especially when its part of the british isles:)

    I liver in Lincolnshire all my life and moved within the last 5 years, night after night the sound of military jets, jaguars, tornados, eurofighters, its part of our armed forces and i for one are proud of them and can even train over my back garden as i have no problems, its extremley rare the raf or the british army to break the law, whilst mouthing off here, why dont you do something constructive and contact the air authority or local authority and log an official complaint over the airspace violations they have commited, all training flights are logged and certain height is mandatory for any pilot, so with regards to a 100foot, i dont believe you

    With all due respect sir, you and your country is at war and your army is on "my" land for the purposes of training for your war. Your army could at least train on your own land to save an argument.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    They may be Irish citizens, but they live in the United Kingdom, and their issue is with the armed forces of the United Kingdom conducting training exercises in the United Kingdom. I think it's clear which government they should be talking to. If illegal Irish in the US wanted the Irish government to ask the US government to stop conducting military exercises near them, I suspect the Irish government would tell them where to go.

    Your's is a straw man agreement. If illegal Irish in the USA were in some sort of legal trouble they could at the least contact the Irish ambassador to the USA.

    We are not talking about Irish people in Northern Ireland doing anything illegal here. An Irish person living in Tyrone is not there illegally.
    jmayo wrote: »
    And as pointed out quiet rightly by oB below they are LIVING in another state (country or jurisdiction just to satisfy rebelheats semantics) and it doesn't matter how many Good Friday Agreements you or I read.
    It is not a dual mandate, as oppsed to what some people think.

    Would you support British citizens living in the Republic of Ireland complaining to the British government about our army or gardaí ?



    Thank you.

    That would depend entirely on the circumstances about the complaint.
    Deedsie wrote: »
    Alot of the nationalist community in the North feel alienated by the British government. They recognise themselves as Irish. I as an Irish citizen only wish our government would do its rightful duty and where it is appropriate be seen to stand up for Irish citizens living in the North.

    It is not a black and white situation up there. We must all be aware of that.

    Very good post/point. A lot of people will gladly brush "the North" aside and say things like "it's a separate country so it's not my problem" .

    oscarBravo wrote: »
    My brother lives in London. He feels alienated by the British government (as do most English people). He recognises himself as Irish.

    Do you think he should ask the Irish government to put in a word with Gordon Brown on his behalf?

    If the British government asked the Irish government not to conduct military exercises on Achill because it was annoying some English people who lived there, the Irish government should tell the British government to get bent. The opposite is equally the case.

    Another straw man. Achill ain't the homeland of British people.

    Are you specifically referring to English people as in those from within the borders of England or do you include Scottish and Welsh in that statement ? "English" is often (erroneously) used as a generic term for all the people of Britain.
    ardmacha wrote: »
    These debates always come back to what the "legal" powers can do, without reference to morality. Some of the people on this board would have been perfectly happy with the activities in Hitler's Germany on the basis that they legal government had authorised them. Discussion on a politics forum has to concern itself whether something is appropriate or right as well as legal.

    I quite agree with you there but certain types of people, especially those of centrist passive politics will often toe the "legal" line . Could've done without the Godwin's Law there also.
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    No. It's dark.



    This may be hard to believe, but I'm told I was one once. I don't recall feeling particularly vulnerable to helicopters.

    NTM

    Humorous indeed.
    dvpower wrote: »
    Is this thread for real?

    Are we to seriously expect the Irish Government to intervene to try and stop the British Army from carrying out exercises in NI because some kids are scared of the helicopters?

    Is it just me or does anyone else find the last few pages of posts as bordering on the bizarre?
    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Right, Northern Ireland is part of the UK but the Good Friday Agreement did happen. People born there have recognised right to identify themselves as Irish by the rulers of the land, therefore it doesn't seem too odd to me that the Irish Government could make representations for them to those rulers.

    I agree here. It has been blown a bit out of proportion into the argument/debate of what Ireland is and what it is not. In fairness though the op did shoot him/herself in the foot a few times (see post#22).

    But yes, essentially a well placed phone call by an Irish politician to perhaps the British Ambassador to Ireland to highlight the concerns of these people living in Ireland I think would not be too much to ask.


This discussion has been closed.
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