'Tyrone village driven mad by British army helicopters'

Manic Moran

There are plenty of alternatives available to the British Army

Someone else's abandoned airfield?

If the helicopter is based in Northern Ireland, it would seem reasonable that as long as it's not needed to do anything operationally that they probably should practise in Northern Ireland. That way it's not too far away if it actually is needed for something.

NTM

blinding

I am sure that there are some loyalist enclaves in NI that would be delighted to have BA helicopters hovering overhead at 2am in the morning.

It would be better if the BA did their night time excursions in these areas as the loyalists would be up partying and a good time could be had by all.

gurramok

Manic Moran wrote: »

Someone else's abandoned airfield?

If the helicopter is based in Northern Ireland, it would seem reasonable that as long as it's not needed to do anything operationally that they probably should practise in Northern Ireland. That way it's not too far away if it actually is needed for something.

NTM

You come across as a military man. Enlighten us as to what a loud military helicopter be doing over someone's house in the middle of the night?

Perhaps mapping it for a future forced entry into the house when landing troops in the back garden or the house was under surveillance for suspected Afghan terrorists for these exercises??

Manic Moran

Didn't someone mention an old airfield right next to the village which they were using for space?

My immediate guess would be sling-load training. You'll have the helicopter hovering in one place for a good ten minutes just to hook up a single load. If they do it a couple of times ,there's your half-hour.

NTM

getz

i suspect this story is just republican mischief, i live on a wild bird sanctuary next to the coast full of rare ducks /geese ect,all around me are farm lands with cattle and sheep, south of me about 8 miles is blackpool airport, day and night the RAF fly low over the sea with jet fighters heading for the lake district 20 miles away to the north, also helicopters from the coast guard/police/ect are always flying low over my home ,put on top of this the airport traffic,you would think by your threads that all the animals/birds and children would be in compleat chaos. but we do not have a single problem with them,so i believe its one of the lets find somthing to complain about , so we can show with who are royalty is with.,just in case we get a visit from the real IRA

gurramok

getz wrote: »

i suspect this story is just republican mischief, i live on a wild bird sanctuary next to the coast full of rare ducks /geese ect,all around me are farm lands with cattle and sheep, south of me about 8 miles is blackpool airport, day and night the RAF fly low over the sea with jet fighters heading for the lake district 20 miles away to the north, also helicopters from the coast guard/police/ect are always flying low over my home ,put on top of this the airport traffic,you would think by your threads that all the animals/birds and children would be in compleat chaos. but we do not have a single problem with them,so i believe its one of the lets find somthing to complain about , so we can show with who are royalty is with.,just in case we get a visit from the real IRA

Yes, lets not give out about British helicopter noise hovering over our houses at 1am for a half hour a few times week as we all are active Provos just like the SDLP rep :rolleyes:

Never heard of jet fighters hovering for half an hour over a house before.

prinz

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Your's is a straw man agreement. If illegal Irish in the USA were in some sort of legal trouble they could at the least contact the Irish ambassador to the USA.

The difference is an Irish person in the USA is still subject to US law. The Irish government cannot simply have an Irish citizen exempted from the law of the land, nor tell the American government that they have to train somewhere else etc.

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

Perhaps mapping it for a future forced entry into the house when landing troops in the back garden or the house was under surveillance for suspected Afghan terrorists for these exercises??

LOL ok this is going way off. Next you'll be worrying about them accidentally thinking they were in Afghanistan and storming the house.:rolleyes:

DoireNod

getz wrote: »

i suspect this story is just republican mischief, i live on a wild bird sanctuary next to the coast full of rare ducks /geese ect,all around me are farm lands with cattle and sheep, south of me about 8 miles is blackpool airport, day and night the RAF fly low over the sea with jet fighters heading for the lake district 20 miles away to the north, also helicopters from the coast guard/police/ect are always flying low over my home ,put on top of this the airport traffic,you would think by your threads that all the animals/birds and children would be in compleat chaos. but we do not have a single problem with them,so i believe its one of the lets find somthing to complain about , so we can show with who are royalty is with.,just in case we get a visit from the real IRA

Did you read the story in the OP? It's clearly not 'just republican mischief'. It's a family who are rightfully annoyed at noise pollution produced by the British Army at completely ridiculous hours. The representative from SDLP simply makes the point that not only is the noise created objectionable, but so too is the presence of the British Army. I don't know what you're trying to get at, if you think that a farmer and his family are intent on just creating some 'republican mischief'.

gurramok

prinz wrote: »

LOL ok this is going way off. Next you'll be worrying about them accidentally thinking they were in Afghanistan and storming the house.:rolleyes:

It was a genuine question to what a helicopter could be doing on exercises above a house in the middle of the night, did you ponder about that?

jmayo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Which poster was that?

Either you or me ?

ardmacha wrote: »

These debates always come back to what the "legal" powers can do, without reference to morality. Some of the people on this board would have been perfectly happy with the activities in Hitler's Germany on the basis that they legal government had authorised them. Discussion on a politics forum has to concern itself whether something is appropriate or right as well as legal.

Yeah if I remember correctly there were one group of Irishmen were keen on Hitler, especially him winning the war. :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

****ing hell, an RAF helicoptor flies over a farm and it now turned into an invasion of an entire village in tyrone with kids being shot on the streets.

My mention of mole hills appears to have been appropriate!

oh dear God don't tell me the Brits have unleashed the moles :eek:

gurramok wrote: »

Yes, lets not give out about British helicopter noise hovering over our houses at 1am for a half hour a few times week as we all are active Provos just like the SDLP rep :rolleyes:
...

From my understanding of flying helicopters, I don't think you can really keep a helicopter hovering in the one spot for very long close to the ground because eventually you will have build up of unstable air.
So half an hour is probably big exaggeration otr else they have a huge house :rolleyes:

There are just a few too many bizarre twists to this story and I think it was jumped upon becuase it was the Brtitish Army/RAF and it has been hijacked for political purposes.
Now we have a bunch of people jumping up on down on this forum seeing this as just another example of how these Irish citizens were abandoned by the Free Staters :rolleyes:

The last thing I will say is why the **** would anyone ask the Irish governmnet to step in, because as most people who live in the state know they are f***ing useless. :mad:

getz

the question i ask is why would anyone living in the republic be interested in a helicopter hovering over a farm house in northern ireland ? the only answers, i can think of, is to spread their anti/brit poison,or they havent anything else in their lives,still i suppose its nice that we are so important in your lives,

gurramok

jmayo wrote: »

From my understanding of flying helicopters, I don't think you can really keep a helicopter hovering in the one spot for very long close to the ground because eventually you will have build up of unstable air.
So half an hour is probably big exaggeration otr else they have a huge house :rolleyes:

There are just a few too many bizarre twists to this story and I think it was jumped upon becuase it was the Brtitish Army/RAF and it has been hijacked for political purposes.
Now we have a bunch of people jumping up on down on this forum seeing this as just another example of how these Irish citizens were abandoned by the Free Staters :rolleyes:

The last thing I will say is why the **** would anyone ask the Irish governmnet to step in, because as most people who live in the state know they are f***ing useless. :mad:

Well, i asked Manic for his expertise on the subject and he came up with half hour of activity of hovering which concurs with what was said in the article.

The MoD never listened to the previous complaints -
"Dermott McKenna said he had spoken to the British Ministry of Defence after heavy helicopter activity last year. "

hence its more powerful to have diplomatic representation on behalf of Irish citizens to raise the ongoing yearly issue.

getz wrote: »

the question i ask is why would anyone living in the republic be interested in a helicopter hovering over a farm house in northern ireland ? the only answers, i can think of, is to spread their anti/brit poison,or they havent anything else in their lives,still i suppose its nice that we are so important in your lives,

Nope, wrong again. We are concerned about fellow Irish citizens up north.

getz

gurramok wrote: »

Well, i asked Manic for his expertise on the subject and he came up with half hour of activity of hovering which concurs with what was said in the article.

The MoD never listened to the previous complaints -
"Dermott McKenna said he had spoken to the British Ministry of Defence after heavy helicopter activity last year. "

hence its more powerful to have diplomatic representation on behalf of Irish citizens to raise the ongoing yearly issue.



Nope, wrong again. We are concerned about fellow Irish citizens up north.

i would be more concerned with abused irish citizens in the south,at least the british goverment has just had a priest deported from the USA for child abuse,the catholic church had sent him there to avoid being found out[it dident work], the republics abused citizens will get no justice

gurramok

getz wrote: »

i would be more concerned with abused irish citizens in the south,at least the british goverment has just had a priest deported from the USA for child abuse,the catholic church had sent him there to avoid being found out[it dident work], the republics abused citizens will get no justice

What is this 'priest deported' business, a link? All Irish citizens deserve justice.

At least Irish citizens in Donegal have their elected reps in the Dail to speak up for them on issues, Irish citizens in Tyrone do not have that privilege.

Deedsie

getz wrote: »

the question i ask is why would anyone living in the republic be interested in a helicopter hovering over a farm house in northern ireland ? the only answers, i can think of, is to spread their anti/brit poison,or they havent anything else in their lives,still i suppose its nice that we are so important in your lives,

Because we havent all nor will we turn our back on our fellow countrymen living in Northern Ireland. British people live in the North too and fair play to them, they seem happy. At the moment Irish nationalists are in the minority and they feel like they are living in an occupied country.

They are as Irish as I am and they should be supported where appropriate by the Republic.

Perhaps if you and and others with similar opinions recognised the disenchantment of Northern Nationalists with the status quo in the North, we might be finally be able to make some positive steps towards a lasting peace on this Island.

Blocking Northern nationalists from there compatriots in the south is not the best way to achieve this.

And, there are still active republican splinter groups active in the North, the British army would want to be aware that another Warren point could happen if they continue to terrorize the people of Northern Ireland who dont want them there.

oscarBravo

Deedsie wrote: »

And, there are still active republican splinter groups active in the North, the British army would want to be aware that another Warren point could happen if they continue to terrorize the people of Northern Ireland who dont want them there.

"They haven't gone away, you know."

Doesn't take much to reactivate the old rhetoric.

Deedsie

oscarBravo wrote: »

"They haven't gone away, you know."

Doesn't take much to reactivate the old rhetoric.

I certainly didnt mean it like that. Im not supporting such actions, but these are unfortunately the way certain groups express themselves. I am not condoning it for one second.

It should be considered though. Look at what happened earlier this year? Disgusting acts.

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

What is this 'priest deported' business, a link? All Irish citizens deserve justice.At least Irish citizens in Donegal have their elected reps in the Dail to speak up for them on issues, Irish citizens in Tyrone do not have that privilege.

I have two siblings living abroad. Should they get a TD too? ... I spend a lot of time in Germany, in an apartment close enough to a train line. Suppose I should get on to the Dáil to see if I can't get the train timetable changed.

Deedsie wrote: »

And, there are still active republican splinter groups active in the North, the British army would want to be aware that another Warren point could happen if they continue to terrorize the people of Northern Ireland who dont want them there.

The ace up the sleeve again. It was only a matter of time I suppose. Arrggh I'm being terrorised by Aer Lingus!!! Bloody airport. Who gave them a right to fly a plane over my place!!

dlofnep

getz wrote: »

i suspect this story is just republican mischief

All qualms by northern Nationalists must be republican mischief, is it? And one wonders why nationalists in the north feel abandoned.

gurramok

prinz wrote: »

I have two siblings living abroad. Should they get a TD too? ... I spend a lot of time in Germany, in an apartment close enough to a train line. Suppose I should get on to the Dáil to see if I can't get the train timetable changed.

Do they have Irish political representation in those countries parliaments?

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

Do they have Irish political representation in those countries parliaments?

No, they live in democracies. They are represented by the people who get the most votes. Much like N.I. They don't like it, tough.

DoireNod

prinz wrote: »

I have two siblings living abroad. Should they get a TD too? ... I spend a lot of time in Germany, in an apartment close enough to a train line. Suppose I should get on to the Dáil to see if I can't get the train timetable changed.



The ace up the sleeve again. It was only a matter of time I suppose. Arrggh I'm being terrorised by Aer Lingus!!! Bloody airport. Who gave them a right to fly a plane over my place!!

You fail to see the difference between the provision of a service for all (public transport) and the unnecessary presence of British Army helicopters at unsociable hours in remote rural areas where a family run a farm. People do get annoyed by the noises made by airports and train stations and they do complain - especially if there's a proposal for a new one and they are allowed to. In many cases, the companies give a form of compensation to affected residents, like giving them means to get sound-proofing installed for example. In the case of farmer McKenna, he's well within his rights to question and complain about that which can easily be avoided and he's well within his rights to ask the Irish government for assistance. To dismiss his annoyance and frustration by saying that others live beside airports doesn't make sense. Most of the people who live near airports have chosen to do so and are well aware of the noise pollution. Farmer McKenna is living in a rural setting with a farm and must appreciate the calm environment. He did not choose to be annoyed by a British Army helicopter so his complaint is completely legitimate and acceptable, especially since there are obviously alternatives available to the British Army.

Your comparison is very silly.

gurramok

prinz wrote: »

No, they live in democracies. They are represented by the people who get the most votes. Much like N.I. They don't like it, tough.

Nope, in NI the Irish citizens are represented by separatist parties. You're siblings do not vote for Irish separatist parties, big difference.

prinz

DoireNod wrote: »

You fail to see the difference between the provision of a service for all (public transport)...

The armed forces.... ... taxpayers money.... instrument of the state, therefore servant to us all...

DoireNod wrote: »

.... and the unnecessary presence of British Army helicopters at unsociable hours in remote rural areas where a family run a farm.

If the hours were sociable would it be ok in your eyes? Night train, by and large takes place at night btw. Remote rural area....... where better to train a helicopter crew. Better than over a busy town, city etc. Isn't that exactly why they are there in the first place. I have a funny feeling that they're probably training out over the Lough anyway.

DoireNod wrote: »

People do get annoyed by the noises made by airports and train stations and they do complain - especially if there's a proposal for a new one and they are allowed to. In many cases, the companies give a form of compensation to affected residents, like giving them means to get sound-proofing installed for example.

So if he got a few quid it would cease to be oppressive aggresive terrorism would it? :rolleyes:

DoireNod wrote: »

In the case of farmer McKenna, he's well within his rights to question and complain about that which can easily be avoided and he's well within his rights to ask the Irish government for assistance. To dismiss his annoyance and frustration by saying that others live beside airports doesn't make sense. Most of the people who live near airports have chosen to do so and are well aware of the noise pollution. Farmer McKenna is living in a rural setting with a farm and must appreciate the calm environment.

No one IIRC questioned his right to complain. He can complain to Obama if he wants to. No problems there. Whether or not the Dáil will be bothered or has any precedent / right to actually have any influence over whether or not a helicopter flies over a certain village in NI......... hmmm I doubt it.

DoireNod wrote: »

He did not choose to be annoyed by a British Army helicopter so his complaint is completely legitimate and acceptable, especially since there are obviously alternatives available to the British Army..

They have to train somewhere.I see no reason why a remote rural area in NI is any less appropriate than a remote rural area in Scotland, or Wales or England.

DoireNod wrote: »

Your comparison is very silly.

Silly? Silly is saying things like they've singled out one farmhouse because nationalists live in it. Silly is describing a helicopter flying over now and again as aggressive terrorism. Silly is thinking the helicopter is likely to open fire on children etc inside a house.

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

Nope, in NI the Irish citizens are represented by separatist parties. You're siblings do not vote for Irish separatist parties, big difference.

They could vote for Mickey Mouse for all I care. What does it matter? The Dáil still has no say in how other countries run their business. They don't come complaining to the Dáil because the local swimming pool is closing, or jobs are being lost. If I set up a Unionist Party tomorrow does that give Westminster the right to interfere in my dealings with this country?

gurramok

prinz wrote: »

They could vote for Mickey Mouse for all I care. What does it matter? The Dáil still has no say in how other countries run their business. They don't come complaining to the Dáil because the local swimming pool is closing, or jobs are being lost. If I set up a Unionist Party tomorrow does that give Westminster the right to interfere in my dealings with this country?

Now that would not be a surprise

If you set up an Unionist party tomorrow and got even a single elected representative to the Dail then you can have the British govt make representations on your behalf of your constituents to the Irish govt, that is if you feel the Irish Ministry of Defence ignored your request to stop that Irish military helicopter hovering over a Unionist household at 1am frightening young Unionist kids in rural North Dublin.

DoireNod

prinz wrote: »

The armed forces.... ... taxpayers money.... instrument of the state, therefore servant to us all...

Right...They didn't provide a service to everyone in N.I. during the Troubles. That's not relevant though. There's a big difference between a public transport service and the British Army. The British Army (and any other army) are by and large an agent of destruction - I don't think they're providing a service to the Ardboe area by training and annoying the residents. You'll have to forgive the farmer's children for being afraid and you'll just have to forgive farmer McKenna and his wife for being annoyed.

If the hours were sociable would it be ok in your eyes? Night train, by and large takes place at night btw. Remote rural area....... where better to train a helicopter crew. Better than over a busy town, city etc. Isn't that exactly why they are there in the first place. I have a funny feeling that they're probably training out over the Lough anyway.

No, if it was during the day a helicopter hovering near the house would probably be annoying and unwanted too, just a little more bearable. The fact it's at night makes it worse. There are far more remote places than Ardboe, I'd suspect; why not train there?

So if he got a few quid it would cease to be oppressive aggresive terrorism would it? :rolleyes:

I didn't suggest that it would. Maybe it would? Ask farmer McKenna. In any case I don't think the farmer described it as aggressive terrorism. It's unneccessary aggravation though.

No one IIRC questioned his right to complain. He can complain to Obama if he wants to. No problems there. Whether or not the Dáil will be bothered or has any precedent / right to actually have any influence over whether or not a helicopter flies over a certain village in NI......... hmmm I doubt it.

That's fair enough, but people appear to be scoffing at the fact that this man has asked the Irish government for help concerning the matter.

They have to train somewhere.I see no reason why a remote rural area in NI is any less appropriate than a remote rural area in Scotland, or Wales or England.

N.I. is a place which is sensitive to British Army presence - that's obvious and only serves to add another dimension to the complaint. I think it was the SDLP dude who brought that point up and it's valid. That's why it's less appropriate. Again though, I suspect that throughout Britain, there are probably more remote places than Ardboe. Why not train there?

Silly? Silly is saying things like they've singled out one farmhouse because nationalists live in it. Silly is describing a helicopter flying over now and again as aggressive terrorism. Silly is thinking the helicopter is likely to open fire on children etc inside a house.

At no point did I say that they'd singled the farmhouse out. At no point did I describe it as aggressive terrorism and at no point did I say that the helicopter was going to attack the house.

I think your comparison was silly because you were comparing this very much avoidable incident to the noise pollution created by airports and trains.

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

Now that would not be a surprise .

Want to join? . I think I'll call it the West Brit Orange Loyal and Royal Party, and I'd have a whale of a time inviting helicopters to come over, outlawing the Wolfe Tones music etc etc, all the important stuff.

gurramok

prinz wrote: »

Want to join? . I think I'll call it the West Brit Orange Loyal and Royal Party, and I'd have a whale of a time inviting helicopters to come over, outlawing the Wolfe Tones music etc etc, all the important stuff.

Whose helicopters, Irish or British?

British helicopters will need consent from the Irish govt to 'come over' unless your new party will rule the land