Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

namespace

flahavaj wrote: »

F*cking disaster for the footballers.:(

Cruel. Only one game this year were we off the standard, against Wexford, yet back down to the depths of division 4.

deiseach

namespace wrote: »

Cruel. Only one game this year were we off the standard, against Wexford, yet back down to the depths of division 4.

Limerick won three matches and got relegated. Louth won four and got promoted. Tough division

McBurgermacs

deiseach wrote: »

Limerick won three matches and got relegated. Louth won four and got promoted. Tough division

It ended up very tight alright. if we were offered wins over Tipp and Limerick at the start of the campaign we would have been confident of staying in div 3.

Deise Tom

The footballers this year in the league have shown how far they have come on in the last six or seven years. If a little lady luck was with them along the way they could well be celebrating promotion to division two this evening.

Two of Louth's scores today were very dubious. for the goal, it looked from where i was that one of the Louth players had carried the ball out over the side line and back in before hitting in around the house. Talking to someone else who was in a different part of the stand (almost directly in front of where i thought the ball went out and was brought back into play) they also said they felt the ball was out and told me a neutral at the game also felt that the ball was out. There second point after Tony Grey was sent off was also dubious from where i was. It looked to be a Waterford line ball which the lines man and the referee who i thought had a very bad game gave it to Louth from which they scored.

deisebhoy17

Were playing Galway in the league this weekend... does anyone know when the last time we beat Galway in the league? I dont think weve ever beaten them in recent years our record is appalling against them....

Deise Tom

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Were playing Galway in the league this weekend... does anyone know when the last time we beat Galway in the league? I dont think weve ever beaten them in recent years our record is appalling against them....

MArch 2002 in Walsh Park, Waterford 1-16 Galway 0-16. However we have not played them every year since. For a number of years when there was bigger numbers in Division one and the division was split into two groups, we avoided them in the draws for who plays in which group on a number of occasions.

calvin_zola

Deise Tom wrote: »

The footballers this year in the league have shown how far they have come on in the last six or seven years. If a little lady luck was with them along the way they could well be celebrating promotion to division two this evening.

Two of Louth's scores today were very dubious. for the goal, it looked from where i was that one of the Louth players had carried the ball out over the side line and back in before hitting in around the house. Talking to someone else who was in a different part of the stand (almost directly in front of where i thought the ball went out and was brought back into play) they also said they felt the ball was out and told me a neutral at the game also felt that the ball was out. There second point after Tony Grey was sent off was also dubious from where i was. It looked to be a Waterford line ball which the lines man and the referee who i thought had a very bad game gave it to Louth from which they scored.

anyway the championship is just around the corner and I expect us to get 3-4 games this year at least, I'm quietly confident we will become a competitive force this year but still I think we are a long way of a provincial title.

Do you know will Hurney and O'Lionain be back for the championship.

hindsight is a great thing but I believe 100% we would have survived with these guys in division 3, possibly gone to div 2, Gizzy is a match winner

Deise Tom

calvin_zola wrote: »

yup I'm with you 100% on this, the goal should definitely not been allowed happen had gone out over the sideline..... funny though you'd think that Louth would be offering us a replay especially with all their talk of dubious decisions after the Leinster final last year/ :rolleyes:

anyway the championship is just around the corner and I expect us to get 3-4 games this year at least, I'm quietly confident we will become a competitive force this year but still I think we are a long way of a provincial title.

Do you know will Hurney and O'Lionain be back for the championship.

hindsight is a great thing but I believe 100% we would have survived with these guys in division 3, possibly gone to div 2, Gizzy is a match winner

Its very hard to see Waterford get no more than one game in Munster this year having got a bye to the semi final where they are most likely to play Cork. We have to call a spade a spade and say that a win in unlikely.

Having got a bye into the Munster Semi Final means that in the qualifiers we join in the second round. By this stage of the competition half of the counties like Sligo/Leitrim, Kildare/Wicklow, Offaly/Wexford, Dublin/Laois/Wicklow, Westmeath, Kerry/Tipperary. Clare/Cork will all have gone out of their provincial championship and have played a first round game in the qualifiers meaning that half of them will also have gone from the competition before Waterford enter the qualifers. Most will agree than no matter which of these counties Waterford get to play, it will not be an easy game.

However Waterford should not be going into the game thinking they will be defeated. Maybe the draw might be nice and we were to get someone like Leitrim or Westmeath, Counties we should be able to beat if a full strength team was able to be put out. It would be nice to get one of them where a win in such a game is very much a possibility and with it the chance to play in the next stage of the championship for the first time.

One think however. In recent years, Waterford between ending their interest in the league and playing in the championship have often given up training for what ever reason. The cynics might suggest that it was a cost cutting thing. The players have then only got back together maybe two or three weeks before the championship. The same has also been said to have happened between the championship and the qualifiers. If Waterford are to be successful in football, it is important that the team remains training right up will they exit the championshop compleatly. What has happened in with the footballers in the past would not be allowed to happen to the hurlers. The footballers are putting in as much an equal if not more an effort as the hurlers and it is only right that the same amount of effort and money is put into them as the hurlers.

namespace

Re: the goal and ball over the sideline: As a sub warming up at the time, about 2 meters from the incident in question I can honestly say that the ball was not over the line.

Deise Tom

namespace wrote: »

Re: the goal and ball over the sideline: As a sub warming up at the time, about 2 meters from the incident in question I can honestly say that the ball was not over the line.

Thats fair enough so. It did look over from the stand, close to the '65 at the road end. Anyone know about the sideline near the end. Was that a Waterford ball as i thought at the time and some others did as well. I must admit however that i did not have a 100% clear view of the incident.

namespace

Deise Tom wrote: »

Thats fair enough so. It did look over from the stand, close to the '65 at the road end. Anyone know about the sideline near the end. Was that a Waterford ball as i thought at the time and some others did as well. I must admit however that i did not have a 100% clear view of the incident.

Man was, ball wasn't. Wish I could say otherwise

calvin_zola

Deise Tom wrote: »

One think however. In recent years, Waterford between ending their interest in the league and playing in the championship have often given up training for what ever reason. The cynics might suggest that it was a cost cutting thing. The players have then only got back together maybe two or three weeks before the championship. The same has also been said to have happened between the championship and the qualifiers. If Waterford are to be successful in football, it is important that the team remains training right up will they exit the championshop compleatly. What has happened in with the footballers in the past would not be allowed to happen to the hurlers. The footballers are putting in as much an equal if not more an effort as the hurlers and it is only right that the same amount of effort and money is put into them as the hurlers.

This is shocking I never relised this

deiseach

Deise Tom wrote: »

MArch 2002 in Walsh Park, Waterford 1-16 Galway 0-16. However we have not played them every year since. For a number of years when there was bigger numbers in Division one and the division was split into two groups, we avoided them in the draws for who plays in which group on a number of occasions.

Before that we beat them in the 1995 League quarter-final in Thurles. But overall deisebhoy17 is right, we have a dire record against Galway in the League. I'll put up a list later. The Championship, on the other hand . . .:D

deiseach

calvin_zola wrote: »

This is shocking I never relised this

Ditto. Absolutely bonkers if true. The footballers have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps in recent years - I can remember them losing to Kilkenny, for crying out loud! - and to not support them in this manner would be an outrage

namespace

1 or 2 week break to return to clubs in preparation for club championships, standard practice everywhere.

edit - We've lost some players at this time in the past, but it was more to do with lack of interest than backing. This mindframe is now gone.

deisedude

namespace wrote: »

Re: the goal and ball over the sideline: As a sub warming up at the time, about 2 meters from the incident in question I can honestly say that the ball was not over the line.

Admirable honesty namespace. Best of luck in the championship

calvin_zola

namespace wrote: »

1 or 2 week break to return to clubs in preparation for club championships, standard practice everywhere.

edit - We've lost some players at this time in the past, but it was more to do with lack of interest than backing. This mindframe is now gone.

Thanks for the information. I'm also removing my comment about Louth and "offering us a the replay", I personally thought it was over the sideline but I'll go with what you said.

I hope that everything goes well for ye in the Summer, hopefully the crowd get out behind ye aswell. Ye are a good team, with a good manager and ye proved it last year.

Might I add Hurney's goal against Clare last year in the championship was one of the finest I had ever seen.

deiseach

As threatened, er, promised earlier, here's our League record against Galway:



Six defeats on the bounce!

Cake Man

Disappointing record in the league against Galway alright but if it meant we lost to them every year and bet them anytime we met in the championship, it wouldn't bother me!

That's tough going on the footballers, 2 or 3 weeks preparation before a championship game is not ideal at all. I agree that we won't beat Cork in the Munster semi (obvious;y should Cork get there) but a kind draw in the qualifiers in Dungarvan and I think we could give most a game. The lads have shown they can mix it with the likes of Westmeath, Cavan, Louth, Limerick, Tipp et al so they have nothing to fear.

carter10

deiseach wrote: »

As threatened, er, promised earlier, here's our League record against Galway:



Six defeats on the bounce!

That game in Fraher field in 87 we were 10 points down at half time, it was a great comeback. I think we beat Cork in walsh park the same year to qualify for the league qf where we were hammered by .....Galway. Could be mixed up with the years there.

deiseach

carter10 wrote: »

That game in Fraher field in 87 we were 10 points down at half time, it was a great comeback. I think we beat Cork in walsh park the same year to qualify for the league qf where we were hammered by .....Galway. Could be mixed up with the years there.

We beat Galway in 1988 but got slaughtered by Tipperary in the League semi-final. The win over Cork was in 1987. God, I remember that game well. We shouted so much abuse at Ger Cunningham that he gave us an evil glare

deisebhoy17

Any word on the team for Sunday? Should have a championship look about it. Heard Canning is back for Galway also...

Fentdog84

Its funny our league record being so bad against them yet they have never beaten us in the championship!

KevIRL

Tough night for the minors down in Tralee losing 4-16 to 0-6.

Deise Tom

KevIRL wrote: »

Tough night for the minors down in Tralee losing 4-16 to 0-6.

There was only one team in it despite a poor first half from Kerry even if they were 2-6 to 0-4 up at the break.

It just goes to show what work needs to be put in by Games and Development or what ever the committees name is now when it comes to football. Each year there is huge amounts of money put into hurling and little if any put into football.

Fentdog84

Just looking at the minor/U21 fixture list. We have a very strong u21 team(hurling) this year but a savage hard draw. Tipp in the first round(not sure home or away) to meet Cork in the semis. The exact same draw for the minor hurling with Tipp at home winners to meet Cork. Maybe we would be better served losing that match first to stand more of a chance of reaching the munster final?

deisebhoy17

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Just looking at the minor/U21 fixture list. We have a very strong u21 team(hurling) this year but a savage hard draw. Tipp in the first round(not sure home or away) to meet Cork in the semis. The exact same draw for the minor hurling with Tipp at home winners to meet Cork. Maybe we would be better served losing that match first to stand more of a chance of reaching the munster final?

Actually agree with you there Fentdog84. If we win the first round of the minor against Tipp we'd be up against Cork in the semi's. Want to have a mighty minor team to beat both Tipp and Cork in the one season. Whereas if we lose to Tipp in the first round wed go through the back door and would end up with either Clare/Limerick in a semi final and a better chance of a Munster final and obviously be guaranteed more hurling over the summer. Still these things can be deceiving from the outset. We want to be competeing with the likes of Tipp and Cork and shouldnt be looking to avoid them. Also, Clare got to an all-Ireland last year and Limerick are backboned with the Ard Scoil Ris lads who have won 2 Hartys in a row. Theres no easy draw lads.
As for the U21s heard there doing colossal training and with the names on the panel youd think were strong. We certainly got the gharder side of the draw and its Tipp in Thurles up first. Weve had a couple decent minor teams the last 2 years but this u21 were hammered out the gate by Cork at minor 3 years ago so you can never predict.

Deise Tom

I cant believe people are suggesting or thinking that Waterford throw or loose any game and try and win silverwear by going the scenic route. Maybe i am reading what you are saying wrong. The shorest and best route to take is often is in a straight line.

If Waterford were to go through the back door say in the minor grade to win a munster final, while it could give the players a game or two extra and might be a way of avoiding Cork and Tipp, (we might have to end up beating both anyway to win a Munster Final).

going down such a route could also have consequences for other competitions are have people thought of that. For example if Waterford were involved in more minor games that we would like to be playing in (ie going through the back door) would the management look for senior games (which have minor players involved) to be called off because of the extra games they have to play, which could mean that Waterford could miss out on playing in the Club Championships should the seniors reach an All-Ireland semi final or final and games will be called off for them.

Would anyone in Kilkenny suggest that their teams try and win silverwear by going the scenic route. I severly doubt it and dont think anyone in Waterford should be suggesting that we do it either.

Fentdog84

Deise Tom wrote: »

I cant believe people are suggesting or thinking that Waterford throw or loose any game and try and win silverwear by going the scenic route. Maybe i am reading what you are saying wrong. The shorest and best route to take is often is in a straight line.

If Waterford were to go through the back door say in the minor grade to win a munster final, while it could give the players a game or two extra and might be a way of avoiding Cork and Tipp, (we might have to end up beating both anyway to win a Munster Final).

going down such a route could also have consequences for other competitions are have people thought of that. For example if Waterford were involved in more minor games that we would like to be playing in (ie going through the back door) would the management look for senior games (which have minor players involved) to be called off because of the extra games they have to play, which could mean that Waterford could miss out on playing in the Club Championships should the seniors reach an All-Ireland semi final or final and games will be called off for them.

Would anyone in Kilkenny suggest that their teams try and win silverwear by going the scenic route. I severly doubt it and dont think anyone in Waterford should be suggesting that we do it either.

I was just making a rational what if analysis on the potential outcomes on the minor fixture list for this year.Theres nothing wrong with the scenic route just look at Tipp last year. Thats what it is there for. But of course I'd rather Waterford teams to win every match and go the direct way but that dosent always happen does it? And i dont give a tuppence about what people would do or say in Kilkenny we need to stop constantly putting them up on some kind of pedastal.

Fentdog84

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Actually agree with you there Fentdog84. If we win the first round of the minor against Tipp we'd be up against Cork in the semi's. Want to have a mighty minor team to beat both Tipp and Cork in the one season. Whereas if we lose to Tipp in the first round wed go through the back door and would end up with either Clare/Limerick in a semi final and a better chance of a Munster final and obviously be guaranteed more hurling over the summer. Still these things can be deceiving from the outset. We want to be competeing with the likes of Tipp and Cork and shouldnt be looking to avoid them. Also, Clare got to an all-Ireland last year and Limerick are backboned with the Ard Scoil Ris lads who have won 2 Hartys in a row. Theres no easy draw lads.
As for the U21s heard there doing colossal training and with the names on the panel youd think were strong. We certainly got the gharder side of the draw and its Tipp in Thurles up first. Weve had a couple decent minor teams the last 2 years but this u21 were hammered out the gate by Cork at minor 3 years ago so you can never predict.

Do you know who's training both teams this year? I heard Davy Fitz was keen to take the minors and u21's last year but the idea was rejected. I wouldnt mind seeing him having a crack at it because we have a golden generation on our hands and I would hate to see it wasted because of average mentors.

alllcounty

Fentdog84 wrote: »

I was just making a rational what if analysis on the potential outcomes on the minor fixture list for this year.Theres nothing wrong with the scenic route just look at Tipp last year. Thats what it is there for. But of course I'd rather Waterford teams to win every match and go the direct way but that dosent always happen does it? And i dont give a tuppence about what people would do or say in Kilkenny we need to stop constantly putting them up on some kind of pedastal.[/QUOTE]

Kilkenny are the benchmark. They are winning all irelands regularly at minor, U21, intermediate and senior. They have won all 4 competitions a couple of times in the last 10 years. That is why comparsions are made as you learn from the best.

U21 managers for this year are fergal hartley, tom feeney and derek mcgrath while the minor managers are those who managed waterford 4 years ago in the forristal tournament. I would not have the same manager of the senior team manage the underage teams as they are seperate competitions and seperate panel of players by in large.

If we want to win anything at underage this year we have to play the best and beat them. If they are good enough they will win and if not they wont. Time will tell this year if the new players coming through are good enough.

deiseach

One win against Cork at Under-21 level = one All-Ireland. Gotta love those odds

deisebhoy17

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Do you know who's training both teams this year? I heard Davy Fitz was keen to take the minors and u21's last year but the idea was rejected. I wouldnt mind seeing him having a crack at it because we have a golden generation on our hands and I would hate to see it wasted because of average mentors.

Never heard that about Davy Fitz that would be madness if he did. Its Fergal Hartley managing the 21s and Liam 'Chuck' O'Connor I beleive with the minors.... 2 good men.

Deise Tom

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Never heard that about Davy Fitz that would be madness if he did.

There was plenty of rumours that he made himself available and a sum in the region of six figures was been mentioned to do the job, but nothing was ever officially confirmed.

Deise Tiger

I think it’s a very positive move for Waterford hurling looking to the future that the likes of Fergal Hartley, Derek McGrath and Tom Feeney have got involved in the current underage structure. This year’s team should be very competitive based on the number of players on the current senior panel that are available to play in the grade.

It’s a grade that we should be at the very least very competitive over the coming years and the grade represents a great chance for the county to achieve the winning of an All Ireland title for the first time since 1992.

Stephen O’Keeffe will be one of the top keepers country wide within the grade this coming season. A fantastic prospect. Our backline should consist of players of the calibre of Darragh Fives, Noel Connors, Philip Mahony and Stephen Daniels. The Mount Sion duo of Eoin Whelan and Martin O’Neill will be pushing for the midfield positions where Paudie Prendergast will also have a big say in who eventually wears these jerseys. Our forward line will give the selectors plenty food for thought with players like Paudie Mahony, Brian O’Halloran, Jake Dillon, Gavin O’Brien, Eoin Madigan, Maurice Shanahan, Brian O’Sullivan, Eamonn Murphy, Ian Galgey all eligible for selection.

I’m probably missing a few players, hard to keep track of the age of players. Many of the above have gained vital National League experience with the senior team already this season which can only be a plus for the team.

How would a team like the following look:
1 Stephen O’Keeffe (Ballygunner)

2 John Dee (Mount Sion)
3 ??????????? Is it going to be the same old problem???
4 Noel Connors (Passage)

5 Darragh Fives (Tourin)
6 Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)
7 Stephen Daniels (De La Salle)

8 Martin O’Neill (Mount Sion)
9 Paudie Prendergast (Lismore)/Eoin Whelan (Mount Sion)

10 Paudie Mahony (Ballygunner)
11 Maurice Shanahan (Lismore)
12 Brian O’Halloran (Clashmore)

13 Brian O’Sullivan (Ballygunner)
14 Eoin Madigan (De La Salle)
15 Jake Dillon (De La Salle)/Eamonn Murphy (Dunhill)

Deise Tom

Fairly strong team for Sunday.

1. Clinton Hennessy
2. Darragh Fives
3. Liam Lawlor
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Michael Walsh
7. Philip Mahony
8. Kevin Moran
9. Eoin McGrath
10. Pauric Mahony
11. Shane O’Sullivan
12. Gavin Crotty
13. Brian O Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. Shane Casey

Goose_Hyypia

Deise Tom wrote: »

Fairly strong team for Sunday.

1. Clinton Hennessy
2. Darragh Fives
3. Liam Lawlor
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Michael Walsh
7. Philip Mahony
8. Kevin Moran
9. Eoin McGrath
10. Pauric Mahony
11. Shane O’Sullivan
12. Gavin Crotty
13. Brian O Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. Shane Casey

Spanky midfield

KevIRL

Deise Tom wrote: »

Fairly strong team for Sunday.

1. Clinton Hennessy
2. Darragh Fives
3. Liam Lawlor
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Michael Walsh
7. Philip Mahony
8. Kevin Moran
9. Eoin McGrath
10. Pauric Mahony
11. Shane O’Sullivan
12. Gavin Crotty
13. Brian O Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. Shane Casey

Very light on a scoring threat though. Hopefully a decent crowd up there

O Riain

lads whats the story with eoin kelly? Has Davy had enough of him after his display against tipp. He is clearly not injured like.

kkdela6

ive been wondering about kelly myself. i think the general consensus is that despite his huge potential, his heart isnt really in it anymore. been sloppy for quite some time now. would love to see him back in it again though.

whats the story with the two prendergasts?

Fentdog84

Deise Tom wrote: »

Fairly strong team for Sunday.

1. Clinton Hennessy
2. Darragh Fives
3. Liam Lawlor
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Michael Walsh
7. Philip Mahony
8. Kevin Moran
9. Eoin McGrath
10. Pauric Mahony
11. Shane O’Sullivan
12. Gavin Crotty
13. Brian O Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. Shane Casey

Strong team but no way near the championship team, heres the one I would start:

1. Hennessy
2. Philip Mahoney
3. Lawlor
4. Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Brick
7. Kevin Moran
8. Shane O Sullivan
9. Richie Foley
10. Padraig Mahoney
11. Eoin Kelly
12. Stephen Molumphey
13. John Mullane
14. Shane Walsh
15. Maurice Shanahan

kkdela6

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Strong team but no way near the championship team, heres the one I would start:

1. Hennessy
2. Philip Mahoney
3. Lawlor
4. Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Brick
7. Kevin Moran
8. Shane O Sullivan
9. Richie Foley
10. Padraig Mahoney
11. Eoin Kelly
12. Stephen Molumphey
13. John Mullane
14. Shane Walsh
15. Maurice Shanahan

mullane is on honeymoon, shanahan and foley are injured, and molumphy is on army duty in poland

Daysha

kkdela6 wrote: »

whats the story with the two prendergasts?

Seamus started against Offaly so I'm guessing Davy just wants to give the younger guys another run-out. Declan is still recovering from a long-term injury but is still on course to make the Limerick game.

deisedude

I'm surprised people think thats a strong team, hard to see where scores are going to come from. Think we could get a spanking tbh!

KevIRL

O Riain wrote: »

lads whats the story with eoin kelly? Has Davy had enough of him after his display against tipp. He is clearly not injured like.

He's looked not fully fit and carrying a bit of weight in any game I've seen him in this year

O Riain

KevIRL wrote: »

He's looked not fully fit and carrying a bit of weight in any game I've seen him in this year

if he was able to play 15 minutes in a game over a month and a half ago then he should be able to contribute alot more than that these days and hasnt. We need to look past em IMO

Cake Man

I think the team out for tomorrow is weak enough up front, plenty of younger lads but at least their getting their chance. It will be hard to see us racking up a big score.
Don't know why E. McGrath is starting, he's finished a long time ago and contributes very little these days. Don't know what the story is with Kelly, tbh we'd prob be best off moving forward without him as there's no point flogging a dead horse anymore.
I know Lawlor didn't do much wrong last year but I think we'd be better going with either Fives or Hutchinson full back.
Don't rate Shane Casey much either tbh, he's been on the panel for the last couple of years and hasn't done much. I know he hasn't got that many chances but anytime he has I thought he was average enough, nothing special.

Galway will be a decent test for us and the last competitive game before Limerick in June so we may as well make use of it. I can't see us winning though, Galway in good form and will prob have Canning back.

Deise Tom

O Riain wrote: »

lads whats the story with eoin kelly? Has Davy had enough of him after his display against tipp. He is clearly not injured like.

a story or two doing the rounds.

O Riain

Deise Tom wrote: »

a story or two doing the rounds.

Go on so spill the beans!

Lovely day for a game of hurlin by the way!

deisedude

Deise Tom wrote: »

a story or two doing the rounds.

Isn't there always? Dont think a public messageboard is the place to be airing it though