Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

Deise Tom

Today's game is one Waterford should be winning, But you can never tell. The fact that Waterford played division one in the league and Limerick in Division two should not be read into too much. Limerick were only down there on last years results. They had a total different team this year, with many of their big guns back having taken a year off. What has to be remembered is that Limerick just like Waterford have experience playing in Munster Finals, All-Ireland Semi Finals and Finals. Also this is Munster Championship Hurling, a Championship where anyone can beat anyone. The result of the game today might not be the same if it was played again next week or during the week.

Mountainlad

Deise Tom wrote: »

Today's game is one Waterford should be winning, But you can never tell. The fact that Waterford played division one in the league and Limerick in Division two should not be read into too much. Limerick were only down there on last years results. They had a total different team this year, with many of their big guns back having taken a year off. What has to be remembered is that Limerick just like Waterford have experience playing in Munster Finals, All-Ireland Semi Finals and Finals. Also this is Munster Championship Hurling, a Championship where anyone can beat anyone. The result of the game today might not be the same if it was played again next week or during the week.

If the weather cleared up I'd be confiedent. The fact they've had a year out will not be an advantage. They haven't played a game at this level in ages, some have never playedit at thislevel. The weather slowing the pace down to me would suit Limerick. Remember, for a lot of the league Waterford were missing about 6 or more off the team, and still very nearly made it to the league final. Fitzgerald will have a lot to answer for if we lose, and that's a fact. You wouldn't see Tipperary or Kilkenny losing today, so if we have any ambitions we have to make a point today that this isn't your typical Waterford team, prone to inconsistency!

KevIRL

lim 1-7 wat 0-6 at ht intermediate match

STIG83

Will be watching it at home, COME ON WATERFORD!!

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

lim 1-7 wat 0-6 at ht intermediate match

What's the weather like?

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

What's the weather like?

overcast, blustery and a light drizzle no break in the heavy cloud cover. breeze blowing into.the empty killinen end terrace.

limerck won the intermediate game by a goal.

Mountainlad

Is the wind strong, and how are conditions underfoot?

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

Is the wind strong, and how are conditions underfoot?

strong enough to be a factor for sure. pitch seems fine but the ball will be greasy

Ricardo G

lol Davy keeps his thoughts short and sweet on rte

KevIRL

looks like mahony on free duty

KevIRL

d o sullivan starts instead of richie foley

Ricardo G

Great goal by Mullane !

Fentdog84

Final score Waterford 3-15 Limerick 3-14. Dont ask me how we got away with that one. Thank John Mullane. Not impressed with this performance against a game but poor limerick side. If it is Tipp in the munster final, will probably stay away because we wont have much of a chance against them, based on this showing.

Deise Tom

Nice to get a win, but Waterford will have to improve big time for a Munster Final. Tipp will have Waterford beaten out the gate at half time if we were to play like that agaisnst them. Of course Tipp have to beat Clare first. Downs caused a lot of trouble at times today. If a young player playing his first championship game can do that, imagine what someone like Lar Corbett will do.

daddydick

PTH2009 wrote: »

I have a fear Donal O Grady will out smart Davy, he did it to Justin in 2003. Donal is a shrud man

What a ridiculous comment....he didnt outsmart anyone, the hurlers on the field played better than the waterford ones

Well done today lads, great victory under huge pressure

daddydick

Deise Tom wrote: »

If a young player playing his first championship game can do that, imagine what someone like Lar Corbett will do.

Tom, in fairness it doesnt matter if its his first game or his two hundreth, he is a quality target man

Well done waterford and please the moaners...shut up, Davy got it 100% right today and is the best manager for this group of players

Fentdog84

Deise Tom wrote: »

Nice to get a win, but Waterford will have to improve big time for a Munster Final. Tipp will have Waterford beaten out the gate at half time if we were to play like that agaisnst them. Of course Tipp have to beat Clare first. Downs caused a lot of trouble at times today. If a young player playing his first championship game can do that, imagine what someone like Lar Corbett will do.

.. can you imagine what kilkenny would have done to either of those teams today? i suppose a positive is how well the young lads done mahony, Fives, o sullivan but the team as whole took their foot off the gas when they were a few points up, when the door was open to kill it off and really twist the knife. You cant fault how hard they worked to get back into the game. Full back is becoming a disaster, other teams know this and are targeting this weakness. Davy has had 3 years to sort this problem out and it hasnt happened. Tipp full forward line will be rubbing their hands with glee again.

Mountainlad

Hutchison won't be starting if Liam Lawlor is fit. I agree Kearney should be starting, Moran could go midfield. He surely must be injured too if Nagle, and O'Sullivan were ahead of him in the pecking order. Maurice didn't perform second half though I was happy with his first half performance, I reckon he wasn't fully fit. Looked very heavy legged.

Very impressive full forward line. The problem was the ball into the half forward line. Hospital passes being played in, and I think this was due to the lack of urgency and intensity, particularly in the second half. We didn't work the ball enough, but when we did we created chances. Molumphy and Brick were outstanding. Mahoney and Brian O Sullivan greatly impressed me. Darragh Fives did very well for his debut. Noel Connors was brilliant second half. Moran and Shane O Sullivan had there moments but I'd imagine they'll be disapointed overall.

As I said, it was getting cleaned out in the half forward line that killed us. It starved possesion from a lethal full forward line. More negatives than positives, but Fitzgerald was raging after the game and I trust he knows that they have things that need sorting out. We can't complain, we're in a Munster final, but that alone won't be good enough. This performance doesn't matter. It's the next day and after that again that will be what the team is judged on.

KevIRL

Just back home. Waterford really do have the BIG HEART. Yet again a close game ends in a win for the Deise. We really should have been a good bit further ahead at half time, scored at least 1 but probably 2 more goals, and also could have done a lot better against Limerick's first half goal. Limerick came out all guns blazing in the second half and scored 1-3 before we even knew what was happening. Great credit to the team and management though, there was no panic and we got back into it. Davy did make some astute switches although perhaps waited too long to move out Wayne Hutchinson who was having the proverbial 'mare in the second half. There is a lot of room for improvement, but it has to be remembered also that it was a crappy day for hurling also. Also big big credit to Limerick on a fine performance and it is great to see them right back in the thick of things and I wish them all the best in the qualifiers, hopefully we might meet again for another thriller.

From a Waterford point of view however some player notes
Hennessey - Couldnt really be faulted for any of the goals I felt and was solid otherwise when needed
Fives - Solid enough, can be happy with how he did
Hutchinson - Absolute nightmare second half. Our age old problem in full back rears its ugly head again
Connors - Thought he was great. Cleared some great ball toward the end and broke out with the ball a lot
Browne - Great first half, not as dominant in the second however
Brick - Fantastic performance. my MOTM. Such an absolute natural under pressure
Moran - Started well in the first few mins, but felt he had a poor game overall
D O Sullivan - A solid effort, like Browne however didnt have as good a second half as first
S O Sullivan - A poor day for Shane, wasted an amount of ball. He can do a lot better than that
Mahoney - Good game, solid on the frees in tricky condidtions, could have done better with the penalty. But 3 fine points from play as well.
Molumphy - Did very well, his bustling style and similar to Connors broke out with a lot of ball
Shanahan - Despite scoring 2 points I thought he was poor. Very slow to react to breaking ball and seemed clumsy a lot of the time. However one of his points in particular was excellent
Mullane - Was marshalled well byh Limerick. But 2 cracking goals. Epitomises the BIG HEART
Walsh - Solid, got his goal and point, was surprised to see him further out the field in the last 10 mins though
B O Sullivan - Of the 5 debutants he was the one who shone the most, used his speed well. Very impressive and scored well also

subs
Nagle - Did well when he came on, will be happy with his performance
S Prendergast - Poor, despite his height was cleaned out for a lot of dropping ball
Kelly - Followed the instruction for the free cant be blamed for that. Was delighted to see him run the length of the field to defend and break up a Limerick attack. Good to see that attitude.

KevIRL

Fentdog84 wrote: »

If it is Tipp in the munster final, will probably stay away because we wont have much of a chance against them, based on this showing.

Please dont bother going so if thats your attitude.

Have we now gotten so spoilt with getting to Munster Final's etc that this is the attitude that exists amoungst some Waterford fans?

A very poor attendance today from a Waterford point of view. Far more Limerick fans were there. Disappointing indeed.

Fentdog84

Sure Liam lawlor isnt really up to it either is he? Guys, does anyone know of anyone in this county who CAN ACTUALLY PLAY FULL BACK.....without making a complete monkey out of himself. If you do, send him onto to me and I'll personally drive him down to county training. sounds like Davy needs a hand with this one.

Mountainlad

I couldn't go unfortunately. Will be at the munster final for sure. First munster championship match I've missed since I started going when I was 8.

Liam Lawlor is a talented hurler. Even looking at him for his club he dominates always, where as Hutchison plays well but I've never seen him clean up. I think Lawlor was impressive last year. Between Fergal Lynch and Aisake, in three games only one point scored while he was on the field. Ok, so Lar Corbett ran riot, to be fair even Brick had a shocker that day so it'd be a bit unfair to judge him on that. And I believe he was also playing with an inury for a considerable amount of last year, something he had sorted at the start of the year. Problem is, himself and Kearney have played very little in terms of competitive hurling this year, and that might conspire against them.

hardybuck

Liam Lawlor may be a talented club hurler, but he isn't a talented intercounty hurler. Another issue I see is the huge amount of injuries he suffers, pretty much consistently since he's been in his late teens/early 20's.

Sloppy enough performance today, but this was a team that contained a lot of young players and debutants. The prospects for this group is better in the long term, but despite neither Tipp or KK looking their best this year so far, I'd expect them to have too much for us.

Cake Man

Lads, I dunno what to think or expect going into a Munster final-fearful on what we've seen today or hopeful that we'll up our performance based on the opposition.
B.O'Sullivan and Mahony were superb today, it's neearly a bad reflection on the more established players that those two lads had to carry the scoring threat nearly on their own.

flahavaj

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Brick start at FB for the Munster Final with Moran at CB. Felt sorry for Hutchison, Limerick did a very good job of isolating him and the young Limerick FF who was very clinical with his chances. Being moved off his man an then subbed doesn't do his long term prospects in the position any good.

Overall I thought Waterford were lucky, limerick were brilliant second half and deserved to win tbh. Delighted as usual with the resilience Waterford showed, but theres a lot of work to be done between now and the final. Some of the wides we hit were scandalous and I feel our half forward line is way too light weight, they were blown away by the superb Limerick half backs second half.

Fullback aside I thought the new faces were excelent, Brian O' Sullivan in particular is going to give corner backs a torrid time if he can be put into space on a consistent basis. Dare I say he has the look of a young John Mullane? Mahoney did well also I thought, I was surprised that he won his share of ball in the air, took a few good scores and was OK on frees at short notice too.

Molumphy should be left at midfield now, its clearly his best position. Throw Richie Foley in there beside him and the team has a decent look down its spine.

hardybuck

I've been hoping to see Brick at full back for years. I can't believe it was never explored as an option in the league.

I know we'll have people saying we loose his presence around the middle of the field, but we simply can't afford to keep leaking goals. Our scoring threat has diminished somewhat, so we need to shore up that area in particular. We can survive at centre back with someone else playing there.

We might have to look at getting a full back in from a neighbouring county via the grandparent rule like the Irish soccer team. Its long past a joke at this stage.

flahavaj

On a brighter note, the full forward line of Mullane, Walsh and young O Sullivan has great potential, good pace from the lads in the corners and the power and finishing ability of Walsh in the middle.

Deise Tom

daddydick wrote: »

Tom, in fairness it doesnt matter if its his first game or his two hundreth, he is a quality target man

Well done waterford and please the moaners...shut up, Davy got it 100% right today and is the best manager for this group of players

I agree he is quality, or he was today anyway. Thre point i am trying to make is if we play like we did today in the backs conceeding three goals, against someone like COrbett or Sheflin, players that are around for a while and who would be that bit more cunning could rip us to shreds.

Professey Chin

daddydick wrote: »

Tom, in fairness it doesnt matter if its his first game or his two hundreth, he is a quality target man

Well done waterford and please the moaners...shut up, Davy got it 100% right today and is the best manager for this group of players

Absolute bollocks. What decisions did he get right?
We were all over the place for most of the 2nd half

hardybuck

In terms of beating a KK or Tipp (which is where we must be focusing our attention now) we have a potential issue if the supply of ball doesn't reach the full forward line. Both of these counties have exceptional half back lines.

As I say, I think the group of young players coming through have a lot of potential, but its still very early days for them.

Deise Tom

daddydick wrote: »

Tom, in fairness it doesnt matter if its his first game or his two hundreth, he is a quality target man

Well done waterford and please the moaners...shut up, Davy got it 100% right today and is the best manager for this group of players

People are entitled to give their views.

suitcasepink

Anyone know what the story with Foley was? Did he only get an injury in the last few days or did the camp all know that he was never going to start?

Its hard to know what to say about Waterford... They were muck at times, second to the ball, sloppy first touch and control.. Then some of the play was as good as you'd see, some of those points were fine scores. But really the forwards were too inconsistent, they all scored from play which is nearly a novelty in Waterford at this stage but stupid wides and bad passes..
Last year our main strength was our "brick wall" of a half back line that nobody could pass, it seemed to turn to mush today apart from the Brick himself.. I think all the other backs were slow to get going though I thought Noel Connors and Darragh Fives really proved themselves as the game went on. EDIT: Davy was totally at sea today though, wasnt able to guide the players at all when they were getting lost in the Limerick formation and coz of this they were even sloppier and unsure of themselves and their markers.. Davy coulda done much better there.

Providing Tipperary dont slaughter Clare next week Id be kinda hopeful for the munster Final.. We always play better as the year goes on and we generally make lesser teams appear better than they are (Clare last year) and I think they will have improved and up themselves for the final..

On a side nothing note, we went into Lar Corbetts pub before the match. hes such a nice, polite person, talking away to us for ages, I hope the business goes well for him

Professey Chin

Think they were hopeful for Foley but he failed a fitness test today

Chris P. Bacon

deise_girl wrote: »

Anyone know what the story with Foley was? Did he only get an injury in the last few days

He was practicing free's this morning in his garden and stood on a sliotar and injured his ankle.

Deise Tom

deise_girl wrote: »

Anyone know what the story with Foley was?

Was supposed to have injured his foot in a warm up at some pitch this morning/Early afternoon. HEard someplace he stood on a sliotar on the ground and slipped. He was a loss today.

daddydick

The Chin wrote: »

Absolute bollocks. What decisions did he get right?
We were all over the place for most of the 2nd half

How about putting brick in full abck when downes was going to town on Hutch

Correct decision? YES

Bringing on Nagle and Kelly at the right times, they were both extremely effective

Correct decisions? YES

Cake Man

Ya, hence Mahony had to take over free taking duties at short notice and in fairness he did well.

Providing Tipperary dont slaughter Clare next week Id be kinda hopeful for the munster Final.. We always play better as the year goes on and we generally make lesser teams appear better than they are (Clare last year) and I think they will have improved and up themselves for the final..

I'm thinking about this, since we crept over the line today and got a very good battle from Limerick, this will surely give us better preparation for a Munster final than if we just went out and hockeyed Limerick.
Next week, we all know Tipp will take care of Clare without much hassle so if Tipp go out and hammer them, will they learn much going into a final against us?

Fentdog84

hardybuck wrote: »

I've been hoping to see Brick at full back for years. I can't believe it was never explored as an option in the league.

I know we'll have people saying we loose his presence around the middle of the field, but we simply can't afford to keep leaking goals. Our scoring threat has diminished somewhat, so we need to shore up that area in particular. We can survive at centre back with someone else playing there.

We might have to look at getting a full back in from a neighbouring county via the grandparent rule like the Irish soccer team. Its long past a joke at this stage.

Look the Munster final is hardly the ideal place to be experimenting but if Brick can do the job at FB then he should be in there. Then maybe Moran to Centre back. IMO, that Limerick full forward is as slow as a brick and getting in for those goals was like taking candy from a baby. Also, it would be nice to see Clinton make an above average save every now and then, every game you see Brendan Cummins do a few.

Mountainlad

Cake Man wrote: »

Lads, I dunno what to think or expect going into a Munster final-fearful on what we've seen today or hopeful that we'll up our performance based on the opposition.
B.O'Sullivan and Mahony were superb today, it's neearly a bad reflection on the more established players that those two lads had to carry the scoring threat nearly on their own.

WHAT? This is in my opinion, the most potent forward line we've ever had! Sure when Dan was on song you'd be banking on getting goals, but we never had even four forwards who could score. Shane Walsh scored 1-1 with very little ball, Mullane scored 2-2, Maurice scored 0-2, Shane O'Sullivan scored as well and the last two didn't even play particularly well. The problem, as I believe somebody else has agreed, is the fact they aren't getting enough ball. It's a service issue. Ok, so you try to play high balls at the start. When it does't work, though, you have to have a plan b. That is an area that desperately needs to be addressed and for me is where I will place my finally judgment on Fitzgerald. The other key area was the full back line, but in my view, your going to get caught (particularly on a day like today) a few times. The amount of times you do will depend on how much ball is raining down on your backline, and that's why they got the goals today. Every time we cleared ball it came right back at us.

I think ye're too harsh on Liam Lawlor. Yes, he's injury prone but when he is fit he aquits himself capably always in my view. People don't seem to want to give him a chance. The synicism in this county definetly on show there. If you're not 19 or John Mullane your nothing. Look at Shane Walsh. Doubt very many of ye were talking him up a few years ago, and here he is, 28/29 years of age on the form of his life and a nightmare for any full back when the ball comes in right. Liam is 25/26 which I believe is either younger or the same age as Hutchison. Not to many people were complaining about his selection before the game.

A bit of faith would not kill any of...

Professey Chin

daddydick wrote: »

How about putting brick in full abck when downes was going to town on Hutch

Correct decision? YES

No.1st he moved Darragh Fives into FB and he got torn apart after never playing there in his life and then he put one of the best CBs in the country into FB while we had Lawlor who actually is a FB on the bench.

Bringing on Nagle and Kelly at the right times, they were both extremely effective

Correct decisions? YES

What did Nagle do when he came on? He made the pass to Kelly near the end but besides that he won very little ball and almost made an absolute balls of the clearence at the end. Nagle is and never has been good enough for a championship side and has never made an impact in any position.
Kelly coming on is grand but taking off Mahony who was our MoM to me was stupid. Mahony was our only person scoring at that stage. That decision was just to replace free taker with free taker. Kelly should have been brought on for Shan at around the 50 minute mark.

Anything else he did right? Hows about having zero tactics when Limerick started running at us? We went completely to sh!t and lost all shape. What about pulling Shane Walsh out into wing forward after him scoring the second goal? Hes always been a FF and a damn good one at that. Other positions dont suit him. Davy got fcuk all right and never has a plan B.

Deise Tom

daddydick wrote: »

How about putting brick in full abck when downes was going to town on Hutch

Correct decision? YES

Bringing on Nagle and Kelly at the right times, they were both extremely effective

Correct decisions? YES

Kelly played about 4 minutes.

Mountainlad

Cake Man wrote: »

Ya, hence Mahony had to take over free taking duties at short notice and in fairness he did well.



I'm thinking about this, since we crept over the line today and got a very good battle from Limerick, this will surely give us better preparation for a Munster final than if we just went out and hockeyed Limerick.
Next week, we all know Tipp will take care of Clare without much hassle so if Tipp go out and hammer them, will they learn much going into a final against us?

Agree that today was better preparation than if we'd hammered them. Not sure that Clare will get hammered though. Tipp's midfield is sufficiently weakened without Brendan Maher (outstanding player, couldn't speak highly enough about this guy) so that would worry them. Their forwards are class though and they have had a game so no upsets there.

Professey Chin

Mountainlad wrote: »

WHAT? This is in my opinion, the most potent forward line we've ever had! Sure when Dan was on song you'd be banking on getting goals, but we never had even four forwards who could score. Shane Walsh scored 1-1 with very little ball, Mullane scored 2-2, Maurice scored 0-2, Shane O'Sullivan scored as well and the last two didn't even play particularly well. The problem, as I believe somebody else has agreed, is the fact they aren't getting enough ball. It's a service issue. Ok, so you try to play high balls at the start. When it does't work, though, you have to have a plan b. That is an area that desperately needs to be addressed and for me is where I will place my finally judgment on Fitzgerald. The other key area was the full back line, but in my view, your going to get caught (particularly on a day like today) a few times. The amount of times you do will depend on how much ball is raining down on your backline, and that's why they got the goals today. Every time we cleared ball it came right back at us.

This is caused by that stupid fcuking habit Davy has of pulling our forwards back and trying to crowd midfield. It allows the other teams half backs to just pick ball up and send it right back. Exact same thing against Tipp last year

Deise Tom

The Chin wrote: »

No.1st he moved Darragh Fives into FB and he got torn apart after never playing there in his life and then he put one of the best CBs in the country into FB while we had Lawlor who actually is a FB on the bench.

What did Nagle do when he came on? He made the pass to Kelly near the end but besides that he won very little ball and almost made an absolute balls of the clearence at the end. Nagle is and never has been good enough for a championship side and has never made an impact in any position.
Kelly coming on is grand but taking off Mahony who was our MoM to me was stupid. Mahony was our only person scoring at that stage. That decision was just to replace free taker with free taker. Kelly should have been brought on for Shan at around the 50 minute mark.

Anything else he did right? Hows about having zero tactics when Limerick started running at us? We went completely to sh!t and lost all shape. What about pulling Shane Walsh out into wing forward after him scoring the second goal? Hes always been a FF and a damn good one at that. Other positions dont suit him. Davy got fcuk all right and never has a plan B.

I have been saying this since 2008. Ok at times things might have worked but that was more a case of getting lucky.

Professey Chin

Deise Tom wrote: »

I have been saying this since 2008. Ok at times things might have worked but that was more a case of getting lucky.

Thats why I had a feeling we'd still take it. He has the tactical brain of a bowl of fried shrimp but he's one of the poxiest fcukers in the world.

Youll find my rants going back a few years too :pac:

Deise Tom

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agree that today was better preparation than if we'd hammered them. Not sure that Clare will get hammered though. Tipp's midfield is sufficiently weakened without Brendan Maher (outstanding player, couldn't speak highly enough about this guy) so that would worry them. Their forwards are class though and they have had a game so no upsets there.

Tipp have Woodlock back this year for Centre Field if needed. Hes not a bad player. Great to see him back after a horific injury.

premierstone

Deise Tom wrote: »

Tipp have Woodlock back this year for Centre Field if needed. Hes not a bad player. Great to see him back after a horific injury.

Brendan Maher will be back for the munster final, provided we are in it of course.

chinguetti

Got out of jail but nothing to get excited about today. Davy is a lucky man without a doubt with some bad language to boot.

Slow to make changes that were there for all to see (Hutchinson and Shanahan should have been subbed earlier as they weren't at the races). 3rd year in charge and still the same old problems that once you run at Waterford, they panic. God help us all if Tipp open up as they should beat Clare.

Young lads did well which is a good sign and fair play to O'Mahony to step up to the free taking duties on short notice.

johnfarmer

The Chin wrote: »

No.1st he moved Darragh Fives into FB and he got torn apart after never playing there in his life and then he put one of the best CBs in the country into FB while we had Lawlor who actually is a FB on the bench.

Fives was full back for the under 21s so Davy was right to change it when things weren't working out. So get your facts right before you criticize Davy again. He's a fantastic coach and trainer and is very popular with his players, particularly the younger lads. I felt today was a perfect scenario for Waterford they are now being completely written off to win Munster and the underdog tag suits us better than anybody. I thought there were some excellent performances from Connors, Fives, Brick, Mahony and Brian O'Sullivan. All our forwards scored from play too.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Brendan Maher will be back for the munster final, provided we are in it of course.

Will he be fully fit? Surely not for championship pace hurling. I know hes very fit, like all of them, but breaking your ankle is breaking your ankle and restricts your training, plus he hasn't played a game in ages.