Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

Professey Chin

Ill criticize him all I want on what I see and the fact is his tactics arnt good enough if they even exist. Name 1 correct thing about his tactics today? Ive heard very different stories about his popularity too. We were wrecked today and slowed dramatically in the last 15 minutes. It looked like we were the ones who've been playing Division 2 all year and if hes that fantastic a coach & trainer how were we so clueless so deal with Limericks running game and so lethargic after he claimed we were in the best condition ever.
This underdogs thing really pisses me off too. This era of waterford hurling kicked off 13 years ago and we're been up with the top teams pretty consistently all this time. We have to get it into our fcuking heads(And I mean everyone.Players, Coaches, Supporters) that being favorites isn't a bad thing. If you want to be the best you have to handle the labels that come with it, not hide from it.

Daysha

Only in the door now and actually cannot believe some of the comments here, you'd swear we lost the game today. 5 Championship debuts, losing our free-taker to injury on the morning of the game, up against an obviously very talented young Limerick side and one of the best hurling coaches in the country. The fact is we won and we're in a Munster final, something which should never take for granted.

Limerick had their home homework done on us, no question about that. Isolate Downes on Hutchinson and us his pace to full effect. Play a running game through the centre of the field and drag our players out of position. Both worked very well and while I knew some of these Limerick guys had potential, they really surprised me.

People saying Davy didn't get one tactic right are forgetting the single most important tactic which IMO he gets near full marks ont: the starting 15. He was completely justified starting Mahony ahead of Kelly, and Brian O'Sullivan had a very good game as well when a different coach could have gone for a safer pair of hands like Seamus Prendergast. I don't think he got it right bringing Brian's brother David in instead as Foley though, he didn't have the best of games and I would've preferred either Declan Prender or Jamie Nagle at 7 with Moran in midfield.

The one tactic I will say they messed up on was our half-forward line in the 2nd half. As it progressed Sully and Shanahan were dropping deeper and deeper into midfield, yet when our backs cleared their lines they over-hit them all and just reigned high balls down onto the Limerick half-backs, instead of looking for the free man in midfield. That happened on at least 5-6 occasions in the half and it was horrific to watch.

As good as Brick and Mahony were though, my MOTM was Molumphy. What a brilliant performance that was. It was noticeable the moment any high balls came in he left the other lads deal with it in the air and he'll pick up the pieces. He almost seemed to have a 6th sense as to where the breaking ball was going to come, and his delivery and end-product was spot on.

The one player that disappointed me most was Maurice Shanahan. I know he clocked some good scores but he really had little to no pace and lost many 50:50s. Very similar to his older brother when things weren't going right for him. I'd have doubts about starting him in the final if his fitness doesn't improve, because if Kelly works hard in training and shows the right attitude I'd like to see him start in his place.

Brick as a potential FB is an awkward one. We tried that with Ken in 2008 and we ultimately learned that you cannot take your best player out of position just to make up numbers somewhere else. In terms of consistency Brick is now the best player in the county and possibly the best centre-back in the country. Moving him to somewhere where he wasn't even tested during the league? Nope, wouldn't be happy with that.

Today was probably a day that proved that this team will have bigger and better days ahead of them. Look at our 6 forwards. Maurice, Brian and Pauric got 8 points from play alone between them during the day, yet they're all still U21s. John Mullane scored 2-2 and is still our best forward. Shane Walsh got yet another goal and is now a genuine goal threat at FF. That's 5/6 players with genuine firepower and the ability to take scores from play, yet many people thought that was our biggest weakness only a few months ago! And they will get better.

So overall I'm quite happy. A 4th Munster final in 5 years, a rake of young players starting to get real Championship experience, and though we'll go into that probable game against Tipp as massive underdogs things could very well be a lot worse.

Deise Tom

chinguetti wrote: »

Got out of jail but nothing to get excited about today. Davy is a lucky man without a doubt with some bad language to boot.

Slow to make changes that were there for all to see (Hutchinson and Shanahan should have been subbed earlier as they weren't at the races). 3rd year in charge and still the same old problems that once you run at Waterford, they panic. God help us all if Tipp open up as they should beat Clare.

Young lads did well which is a good sign and fair play to O'Mahony to step up to the free taking duties on short notice.

There should have been an all out effort to get Donal O'Grady when Justin was got rid off. Maybe there was but we dont know it.

Deise Tom

johnfarmer wrote: »

Fives was full back for the under 21s so Davy was right to change it when things weren't working out. So get your facts right before you criticize Davy again. He's a fantastic coach and trainer and is very popular with his players, particularly the younger lads. I felt today was a perfect scenario for Waterford they are now being completely written off to win Munster and the underdog tag suits us better than anybody. I thought there were some excellent performances from Connors, Fives, Brick, Mahony and Brian O'Sullivan. All our forwards scored from play too.

Why do people think he is above criticizem. Surly if he was any good Clare with his father as county secretary would have went all out to get him when they had a vacancy.

Professey Chin

Deise Tom wrote: »

There should have been an all out effort to get Donal O'Grady when Justin was got rid off. Maybe there was but we dont know it.

I dont think they could have afforded him. But then seeing the money Davys spent on stasticians and sh!te I dunno

Fireball07

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Look the Munster final is hardly the ideal place to be experimenting but if Brick can do the job at FB then he should be in there. Then maybe Moran to Centre back. IMO, that Limerick full forward is as slow as a brick and getting in for those goals was like taking candy from a baby. Also, it would be nice to see Clinton make an above average save every now and then, every game you see Brendan Cummins do a few.

Downes slow?? I really don't think so. In the league he won the ball, turned defenders and outpaced them. He's not Mullane-fast but I don't know how you can he's slow.

Unless I misunderstood you...

KevIRL

Daysha wrote: »

Only in the door now and actually cannot believe some of the comments here, you'd swear we lost the game today. 5 Championship debuts, losing our free-taker to injury on the morning of the game, up against an obviously very talented young Limerick side and one of the best hurling coaches in the country. The fact is we won and we're in a Munster final, something which should never take for granted.

Limerick had their home homework done on us, no question about that. Isolate Downes on Hutchinson and us his pace to full effect. Play a running game through the centre of the field and drag our players out of position. Both worked very well and while I knew some of these Limerick guys had potential, they really surprised me.

People saying Davy didn't get one tactic right are forgetting the single most important tactic which IMO he gets near full marks ont: the starting 15. He was completely justified starting Mahony ahead of Kelly, and Brian O'Sullivan had a very good game as well when a different coach could have gone for a safer pair of hands like Seamus Prendergast. I don't think he got it right bringing Brian's brother David in instead as Foley though, he didn't have the best of games and I would've preferred either Declan Prender or Jamie Nagle at 7 with Moran in midfield.

The one tactic I will say they messed up on was our half-forward line in the 2nd half. As it progressed Sully and Shanahan were dropping deeper and deeper into midfield, yet when our backs cleared their lines they over-hit them all and just reigned high balls down onto the Limerick half-backs, instead of looking for the free man in midfield. That happened on at least 5-6 occasions in the half and it was horrific to watch.

As good as Brick and Mahony were though, my MOTM was Molumphy. What a brilliant performance that was. It was noticeable the moment any high balls came in he left the other lads deal with it in the air and he'll pick up the pieces. He almost seemed to have a 6th sense as to where the breaking ball was going to come, and his delivery and end-product was spot on.

The one player that disappointed me most was Maurice Shanahan. I know he clocked some good scores but he really had little to no pace and lost many 50:50s. Very similar to his older brother when things weren't going right for him. I'd have doubts about starting him in the final if his fitness doesn't improve, because if Kelly works hard in training and shows the right attitude I'd like to see him start in his place.

Brick as a potential FB is an awkward one. We tried that with Ken in 2008 and we ultimately learned that you cannot take your best player out of position just to make up numbers somewhere else. In terms of consistency Brick is now the best player in the county and possibly the best centre-back in the country. Moving him to somewhere where he wasn't even tested during the league? Nope, wouldn't be happy with that.

Today was probably a day that proved that this team will have bigger and better days ahead of them. Look at our 6 forwards. Maurice, Brian and Pauric got 8 points from play alone between them during the day, yet they're all still U21s. John Mullane scored 2-2 and is still our best forward. Shane Walsh got yet another goal and is now a genuine goal threat at FF. That's 5/6 players with genuine firepower and the ability to take scores from play, yet many people thought that was our biggest weakness only a few months ago! And they will get better.

So overall I'm quite happy. A 4th Munster final in 5 years, a rake of young players starting to get real Championship experience, and though we'll go into that probable game against Tipp as massive underdogs things could very well be a lot worse.

Well said sir. I was beginning to wonder if we were actually thrown into the qualifiers going by the comments on here. For sure there are things to be improved on, but today was always gonna be a tough one, a game Limerick had been gearing up for a long long time. 5 lads made championship debuts, some gutsy calls made by the management team.

I get the feeling that some folk would have been happier to see us lose so they could go on a Davy knocking crusade. And we even have the BS of some saying they wont go to a Munster Final cause they dont think we'll win???

Not saying Davy is perfect by any means btw, he often does not have a plan B but a reality check is needed here.

chinguetti

Deise Tom wrote: »

There should have been an all out effort to get Donal O'Grady when Justin was got rid off. Maybe there was but we dont know it.

Heard last year that he turned them down before on two separate occasions when unoffical contacts where made to him to manage.

How true this is, i can't say.

KevIRL

Deise Tom wrote: »

There should have been an all out effort to get Donal O'Grady when Justin was got rid off. Maybe there was but we dont know it.

I seriously doubt they would have gotten DOG after the Justin debacle. It was widely accepted that none of the top managers would have gone near Waterford at the time, them being viewed as an aging on the way out team, and having to perform a miracle mid season.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Will he be fully fit? Surely not for championship pace hurling. I know hes very fit, like all of them, but breaking your ankle is breaking your ankle and restricts your training, plus he hasn't played a game in ages.

Was togged for hes club friday night and will have another game with them in two weeks, he has been back training a few weeks now.

KevIRL

Also big plea to Waterford fans....Please turn out for the Munster final. Being vastly outnumbered by Limerick fans today was pretty embarassing considering not so long ago we regarded ourselves as amoung the best supported teams in the country.

Deise Tom

Daysha wrote: »

Only in the door now and actually cannot believe some of the comments here, you'd swear we lost the game today. 5 Championship debuts, losing our free-taker to injury on the morning of the game, up against an obviously very talented young Limerick side and one of the best hurling coaches in the country. The fact is we won and we're in a Munster final, something which should never take for granted.

Limerick had their home homework done on us, no question about that. Isolate Downes on Hutchinson and us his pace to full effect. Play a running game through the centre of the field and drag our players out of position. Both worked very well and while I knew some of these Limerick guys had potential, they really surprised me.

People saying Davy didn't get one tactic right are forgetting the single most important tactic which IMO he gets near full marks ont: the starting 15. He was completely justified starting Mahony ahead of Kelly, and Brian O'Sullivan had a very good game as well when a different coach could have gone for a safer pair of hands like Seamus Prendergast. I don't think he got it right bringing Brian's brother David in instead as Foley though, he didn't have the best of games and I would've preferred either Declan Prender or Jamie Nagle at 7 with Moran in midfield.

The one tactic I will say they messed up on was our half-forward line in the 2nd half. As it progressed Sully and Shanahan were dropping deeper and deeper into midfield, yet when our backs cleared their lines they over-hit them all and just reigned high balls down onto the Limerick half-backs, instead of looking for the free man in midfield. That happened on at least 5-6 occasions in the half and it was horrific to watch.

As good as Brick and Mahony were though, my MOTM was Molumphy. What a brilliant performance that was. It was noticeable the moment any high balls came in he left the other lads deal with it in the air and he'll pick up the pieces. He almost seemed to have a 6th sense as to where the breaking ball was going to come, and his delivery and end-product was spot on.

The one player that disappointed me most was Maurice Shanahan. I know he clocked some good scores but he really had little to no pace and lost many 50:50s. Very similar to his older brother when things weren't going right for him. I'd have doubts about starting him in the final if his fitness doesn't improve, because if Kelly works hard in training and shows the right attitude I'd like to see him start in his place.

Brick as a potential FB is an awkward one. We tried that with Ken in 2008 and we ultimately learned that you cannot take your best player out of position just to make up numbers somewhere else. In terms of consistency Brick is now the best player in the county and possibly the best centre-back in the country. Moving him to somewhere where he wasn't even tested during the league? Nope, wouldn't be happy with that.

Today was probably a day that proved that this team will have bigger and better days ahead of them. Look at our 6 forwards. Maurice, Brian and Pauric got 8 points from play alone between them during the day, yet they're all still U21s. John Mullane scored 2-2 and is still our best forward. Shane Walsh got yet another goal and is now a genuine goal threat at FF. That's 5/6 players with genuine firepower and the ability to take scores from play, yet many people thought that was our biggest weakness only a few months ago! And they will get better.

So overall I'm quite happy. A 4th Munster final in 5 years, a rake of young players starting to get real Championship experience, and though we'll go into that probable game against Tipp as massive underdogs things could very well be a lot worse.

Agree with Molumphy been man of the match. Mullane with his 2-2 and 2 or 3 of the new lads (Fives, Mahony and Brian Sullivan) will gather all the headlines, as could Brick, but Molumphy was outstanding today. He covered an awful lot of ground. Another very good player today, despite been wrote off on more than one occasion in recent years was Tony Browne. How many players for the first goal today when taking the free would have tried and landed a point or to drop the ball in around the house and hope for the best. Browne however spotted Mullane and played the ball down the wing. You cant beat experience and he has it to bottle and to sell it. I know he is 38 in a few weeks time, but i hope that he will be around for a long time to come. When he drops out i feel he will be a huge loss.

Deise Tom

The Chin wrote: »

I dont think they could have afforded him. But then seeing the money Davys spent on stasticians and sh!te I dunno

One business man told me that he was aware of a few people getting together and doing a JP McManus job if the county board did get him. How long it would have lasted is another thing as it was around this time that things went a bit belly up.

Professey Chin

KevIRL wrote: »

Also big plea to Waterford fans....Please turn out for the Munster final. Being vastly outnumbered by Limerick fans today was pretty embarassing considering not so long ago we regarded ourselves as amoung the best supported teams in the country.

Our style of play was a big factor in that. Nobody can argue thats changed dramatically in the last few years

One of the things today really that really annoyed me today was Mullane. Cant argue with the goals(both great) but good christ I wish he'd actually pass the balls. On multiple occasions he was trying for stupid shots when Walsh or Mahony or someone was open/making a run off him and screaming for it.

Mountainlad

I am the only one that still believes we have the potential to challenge Tipp and Kilkenny?

I am that insane?

Certainly the future is very bright!

Professey Chin

Mountainlad wrote: »

I am the only one that still believes we have the potential to challenge Tipp and Kilkenny?

I am that insane?

Certainly the future is very bright!

I believe we have the players to challenge them. Personally I dont believe we have the management team to do it (although ive made that clear the last couple years :pac:)

Deise Tom

chinguetti wrote: »

Heard last year that he turned them down before on two separate occasions when unoffical contacts where made to him to manage.

How true this is, i can't say.

I am sure many top coaches would turn down an unofficial approach, but if things were official it might be a different matter. Its often better to do things offiical from the off instead of trying to send out feelers.

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

I am the only one that still believes we have the potential to challenge Tipp and Kilkenny?

I am that insane?

Certainly the future is very bright!

On balance this season we dont have the potential, of course on any given day if they play below their best and us above our best who knows. But Tipp and KK are the top of the class for sure.

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

On balance this season we dont have the potential, of course on any given day if they play below their best and us above our best who knows. But Tipp and KK are the top of the class for sure.

Yeah I still think that they are the two best, there's no doubt about it. But sure, we're not far off so they will have to be ready to beat us.

By the way, I knew Molumphy wouldn't get the credit for his performance today. I wouldn't begrudge Mahony his award, but Brick and Molumphy were better and Molumphy was huge. Tony Browne did well in a tough test, answering John Leahys criticism earlier today in the sunday times!

premierstone

The Chin wrote: »

One of the things today really that really annoyed me today was Mullane. Cant argue with the goals(both great) but good christ I wish he'd actually pass the balls. On multiple occasions he was trying for stupid shots when Walsh or Mahony or someone was open/making a run off him and screaming for it.

It seems strange to say about someone who scored 2-2 but Mullane was actually quite poor today, 2-1 came from Tom Condon sliping and misjudging the flight, and Condon came out with a huge amount of ball and as you said he hit some terrible wides.

Cake Man

Should Tipp beat Clare as expected, where will the final be on, Thurles or Pairc Ui Chaoimh?

Also big plea to Waterford fans....Please turn out for the Munster final. Being vastly outnumbered by Limerick fans today was pretty embarassing considering not so long ago we regarded ourselves as amoung the best supported teams in the country.

I second that, the Limerick fans made good atmosphere with big numbers but I hardly heard a Waterford chant all game. I'd love to see a big turn out for Munster final day to get behind the team.

Deise Tom

KevIRL wrote: »

I seriously doubt they would have gotten DOG after the Justin debacle. It was widely accepted that none of the top managers would have gone near Waterford at the time, them being viewed as an aging on the way out team, and having to perform a miracle mid season.

I would love to know who came up with this ageing thing and Justin's teams. look at the last team he picked V Clare in Limerick

• C Hennessey; Born 1977 age 31
• S Kearney Born
• K Moran Born 1987 Age 21
• D Prendergast; Born 1981 Age 27
• T Browne, Born 1973 Age 35
• B Phelan, Born 1979 Age 29
• J Kennedy; Born Age
• M Walsh (capt), Born 1983 Age 25
• D Bennett; Born 1976 Age 32
• S Prendergast, Born 1980 Age 28
• D Shanahan, Born 1977 Age 31
• S Molumphy; Born 1984 Age 24
• J Mullane, Born 1981 Age 27
• G Hurney, Born 1981 Age 27
• E McGrath. Born 1980 Age 28

OK, there was 3 or 4 fellows in their 30's that started, but most of the team was in their mid 20's the age most say you have to be to win All-Irelands. Of the ones that were 30 or more in Justin's team, two of them played today, one of whom is Tony Browne who is getting better and better by the games he plays.

KevIRL

The Chin wrote: »

Our style of play was a big factor in that. Nobody can argue thats changed dramatically in the last few years

it.

There's a few factors, I think the main one is that the novelty has worn off for a lot of people. 2002 onwards it was such a new thing to be in Munster Finals, All Ireland Semi Finals. Now not so much. Success has bred apathy.

There is of course the financial factor as well.

The style has changed for sure but we have still been involved in some extremely entertaining games in recent years

Deise Tom

Mountainlad wrote: »

I am the only one that still believes we have the potential to challenge Tipp and Kilkenny?

I am that insane?

Certainly the future is very bright!

We have the potential but will we, thats the big question.

KevIRL

Deise Tom wrote: »

I would love to know who came up with this ageing thing and Justin's teams. look at the last team he picked V Clare in Limerick

• C Hennessey; Born 1977 age 31
• S Kearney Born
• K Moran Born 1987 Age 21
• D Prendergast; Born 1981 Age 27
• T Browne, Born 1973 Age 35
• B Phelan, Born 1979 Age 29
• J Kennedy; Born Age
• M Walsh (capt), Born 1983 Age 25
• D Bennett; Born 1976 Age 32
• S Prendergast, Born 1980 Age 28
• D Shanahan, Born 1977 Age 31
• S Molumphy; Born 1984 Age 24
• J Mullane, Born 1981 Age 27
• G Hurney, Born 1981 Age 27
• E McGrath. Born 1980 Age 28

OK, there was 3 or 4 fellows in their 30's that started, but most of the team was in their mid 20's the age most say you have to be to win All-Irelands. Of the ones that were 30 or more in Justin's team, two of them played today, one of whom is Tony Browne who is getting better and better by the games he plays.

Fair point, but a manager like O Grady is going to want to build a team, there's 1 21 year old there. The average age is pretty high. Compare it even to todays team, or indeeds Limericks today. Tipperary's team at the moment

egpower

I thought Tony Browne was under serious pressure today especially in the first half. I was watching him closely and I just thought he was using all his experience to deny Mulcahy posession rather than playing in the normal positive manner of his as if he was not confident / fit enough ? Anyone else have that view ?

flahavaj

Daysha wrote: »

Only in the door now and actually cannot believe some of the comments here, you'd swear we lost the game today. 5 Championship debuts, losing our free-taker to injury on the morning of the game, up against an obviously very talented young Limerick side and one of the best hurling coaches in the country. The fact is we won and we're in a Munster final, something which should never take for granted.

Limerick had their home homework done on us, no question about that. Isolate Downes on Hutchinson and us his pace to full effect. Play a running game through the centre of the field and drag our players out of position. Both worked very well and while I knew some of these Limerick guys had potential, they really surprised me.

People saying Davy didn't get one tactic right are forgetting the single most important tactic which IMO he gets near full marks ont: the starting 15. He was completely justified starting Mahony ahead of Kelly, and Brian O'Sullivan had a very good game as well when a different coach could have gone for a safer pair of hands like Seamus Prendergast. I don't think he got it right bringing Brian's brother David in instead as Foley though, he didn't have the best of games and I would've preferred either Declan Prender or Jamie Nagle at 7 with Moran in midfield.

The one tactic I will say they messed up on was our half-forward line in the 2nd half. As it progressed Sully and Shanahan were dropping deeper and deeper into midfield, yet when our backs cleared their lines they over-hit them all and just reigned high balls down onto the Limerick half-backs, instead of looking for the free man in midfield. That happened on at least 5-6 occasions in the half and it was horrific to watch.

As good as Brick and Mahony were though, my MOTM was Molumphy. What a brilliant performance that was. It was noticeable the moment any high balls came in he left the other lads deal with it in the air and he'll pick up the pieces. He almost seemed to have a 6th sense as to where the breaking ball was going to come, and his delivery and end-product was spot on.

The one player that disappointed me most was Maurice Shanahan. I know he clocked some good scores but he really had little to no pace and lost many 50:50s. Very similar to his older brother when things weren't going right for him. I'd have doubts about starting him in the final if his fitness doesn't improve, because if Kelly works hard in training and shows the right attitude I'd like to see him start in his place.

Brick as a potential FB is an awkward one. We tried that with Ken in 2008 and we ultimately learned that you cannot take your best player out of position just to make up numbers somewhere else. In terms of consistency Brick is now the best player in the county and possibly the best centre-back in the country. Moving him to somewhere where he wasn't even tested during the league? Nope, wouldn't be happy with that.

Today was probably a day that proved that this team will have bigger and better days ahead of them. Look at our 6 forwards. Maurice, Brian and Pauric got 8 points from play alone between them during the day, yet they're all still U21s. John Mullane scored 2-2 and is still our best forward. Shane Walsh got yet another goal and is now a genuine goal threat at FF. That's 5/6 players with genuine firepower and the ability to take scores from play, yet many people thought that was our biggest weakness only a few months ago! And they will get better.

So overall I'm quite happy. A 4th Munster final in 5 years, a rake of young players starting to get real Championship experience, and though we'll go into that probable game against Tipp as massive underdogs things could very well be a lot worse.

The only consolation in moving Brick back is that we have a ready made replacement fir Brick in Kevin Moran who has been unbelieveable every time I've seen him in the role for De La Salle. It would be a huge risk though, I agree and you can't help but wish it had been tried during the league - the fact Davy was happy to do it mid-game shows he has obviously considered it before.

I do agree with you in general that there is way to much pessimism here. It is early doors - nobody ever won anything the the second week of June. Any team trying to bed in 5 championship debutants, as well as the relatively inexperienced Shanahan is going to take a while to settle down. The young forwards all made a good contribution. If you'd told me ten years ago three young forwards with barely any chempionship experience would walk into the team and contribute 13 points I'd have been ecstatic. They'll only get better - and remember we have the likes of Brian O' Halloran and Jake Dillon waiting to come in in the next couple of years as well. Not bad at all.

abouttobebanned

Well the team is out on the piss again tonight. One of these years they'll wait til the final to do that.

Deise Tom

KevIRL wrote: »

Fair point, but a manager like O Grady is going to want to build a team, there's 1 21 year old there. The average age is pretty high. Compare it even to todays team, or indeeds Limericks today. Tipperary's team at the moment

On the bench there would have been players that were around the early 20's that would be needed. Pa Kearney, Ringo etc were there at the time amongst others.

Fireball07

deisedude wrote: »

Hutchy shouldnt be caught for pace. I'd worry more about him commanding the square for high balls to be honest

You can't say it wasn't likely. He wasn't fast enough and just not able to cope with Downes. Whatever about the other calls he made, Davy Fitz should have known what Downes was like after the league final in particular. Getting destroyed like that can't have been good for Hutchison's confidence, in fact it could shatter it.


Mahoney was really good for you, of your young players. O'Sullivan was decent too.

flahavaj

Deise Tom wrote: »

I would love to know who came up with this ageing thing and Justin's teams. look at the last team he picked V Clare in Limerick

• C Hennessey; Born 1977 age 31
• S Kearney Born
• K Moran Born 1987 Age 21
• D Prendergast; Born 1981 Age 27
• T Browne, Born 1973 Age 35
• B Phelan, Born 1979 Age 29
• J Kennedy; Born Age
• M Walsh (capt), Born 1983 Age 25
• D Bennett; Born 1976 Age 32
• S Prendergast, Born 1980 Age 28
• D Shanahan, Born 1977 Age 31
• S Molumphy; Born 1984 Age 24
• J Mullane, Born 1981 Age 27
• G Hurney, Born 1981 Age 27
• E McGrath. Born 1980 Age 28

OK, there was 3 or 4 fellows in their 30's that started, but most of the team was in their mid 20's the age most say you have to be to win All-Irelands. Of the ones that were 30 or more in Justin's team, two of them played today, one of whom is Tony Browne who is getting better and better by the games he plays.

Its not so much that Justin's team was ageing, its that he stuck with the same small panel that was the problem IMO. And in fairness there are guys in that team who were only starting due to injuries - if Ken, Kelly and Murphy had been fit they'd have started which would drive up the avarage age again.

Deise Tom

flahavaj wrote: »

The only consolation in moving Brick back is that we have a ready made replacement fir Brick in Kevin Moran who has been unbelieveable every time I've seen him in the role for De La Salle. It would be a huge risk though, I agree and you can't help but wish it had been tried during the league - the fact Davy was happy to do it mid-game shows he has obviously considered it before.

I do agree with you in general that there is way to much pessimism here. It is early doors - nobody ever won anything the the second week of June. Any team trying to bed in 5 championship debutants, as well as the relatively inexperienced Shanahan is going to take a while to settle down. The young forwards all made a good contribution. If you'd told me ten years ago three young forwards with barely any chempionship experience would walk into the team and contribute 13 points I'd have been ecstatic. They'll only get better - and remember we have the likes of Brian O' Halloran and Jake Dillon waiting to come in in the next couple of years as well. Not bad at all.

Cork gave six players their debut against Waterford in 1999. They went on to win the Munster and All-Ireland finals. If you are good enough you will settle in quickly.

KevIRL

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Well the team is out on the piss again tonight. One of these years they'll wait til the final to do that.

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

O Riain

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Well the team is out on the piss again tonight. One of these years they'll wait til the final to do that.

Theyre into a Munster final after a tough tough game. Lot of pressure going into first championship game and Munster final is a month away, with the effort these boys put in I dont think anyone can begrudge em letting lose a little.

suitcasepink

egpower wrote: »

I thought Tony Browne was under serious pressure today especially in the first half. I was watching him closely and I just thought he was using all his experience to deny Mulcahy posession rather than playing in the normal positive manner of his as if he was not confident / fit enough ? Anyone else have that view ?

Yea I thought I was the only one to think this.. He was defo caught a few times, he was able to use his intelligence and experience to stop problems a good few times but he was definitely caught for pace especially in the second half. I dont agree with the running joke "Hes getting better with age" but maybe today was just a blooper, as the games go on he could improve..

Deise Hurler

We were lucky to come out of Thurlus today with a win but this was always going to be a possible banana skin and going into a munster final having not played to our potential and being underdogs is a good position to be in.

Here's my two cents for what its worth.

Posters are saying that davy didnt make good decisions on the line but the moving of brick to full back worked out a treat, but then again brick could play anywhere and be brilliant. His dominance is a loss to the half back line but against a tipp forward line who will go for goals against us, i feel he will be needed in front of the goal for the next day.

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal. Adrian Power is a much better keeper, i feel and with him in goals I don't think we wont be leaking the goals we are. I don't think this change will be made but if we are to concede less goals Clinton needs to learn to stand his ground when a forward is bearing down on goal, make himself big and stop making these ridiculous dives which never result in a save.

Another player I would like to see added to the starting team is Aidan Kearney, who is a class act and if fully fit is well capable of returning to the form of a few years ago. I would play him in what many consider his best position wing back. I would fear Jamie Nagle starting wing back the next day as he has got heaps of chances and is just not up to intercounty standard, even if he did ok when he came on today.

Our half forward line was cleaned out today in the aeriel battle with limerick, especially in the second half. This is something which needs to be worked on with in training over the next few weeks. I wouldn't make any changes in this line however as I feel we have the right players in the right positions here (unless kelly hits a rich vein of form of course). Instead we need to work of the quality of ball played into the forwards and of our puck outs.

Finally, it was great to get three goals today and I think having Shane Walsh in Full Forward (should have been left there for the whole match) and Brian O' Sullivan, who looks like a good goal threat, as well as Mullane in there has added a dimension to our game that we just haven't had in recent years. We could have had 5 goals today and with the right ball into these boys vs Tipp who knows.

Anyway my team for the next day would be:

1. Adrian Power
2. Darragh Fives
3. Brick Walsh
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Kevin Moran
7. Aidan Kearney
8. Ritchie Foley
9. Stephen Molumphy
10. Maurice Shanahan
11. Shane O' Sullivan
12. Pauric Mahony
13. Brian O' Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. John Mullane

Cake Man

KevIRL wrote: »

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

Was just about to post something like this, the lads play an amateur sport and their free to go out and have a few pints. They're not robots who must go home and straight to bed after today. In fact I'd nearly say it would better that they go out for a few quiet ones and have a bit of craic with each other, team bonding and all that.

washman3

That was some second half today,as a Limerick supporter im gutted for the players but fair play to waterford for digging deep and winning the battle,5 newcomers too,great to see.Nothing to fear in MF. Best of luck. as for next weeks semi,dont rule out Honan doing a "Kevin Downes" on the game.This chap is capable of running riot.Remember Tipp had nobody to match a limited Aisake last year.!!

P.S. where have all the Deise fans gone?

Deise Tom

flahavaj wrote: »

Its not so much that Justin's team was ageing, its that he stuck with the same small panel that was the problem IMO. And in fairness there are guys in that team who were only starting due to injuries - if Ken, Kelly and Murphy had been fit they'd have started which would drive up the avarage age again.

Again is that a bit of a mit. Have a look at Justin's first championship team in 2002 against Cork I think, and that which he selected against Clare in his last game. There is five players that were involved in the two games from the start.

Team in 2002

• S Brenner
• J Murray
• T Feeney
• B Flannery
• P Queally
• F Hartley
• E Murphy
• T Browne
• D Bennett
• E Kelly
• A Moloney
• P Flynn
• J Mullane
• S Prendergast
• E McGrath

Team in 2008

• C Hennessey;
• S Kearney
• K Moran
• D Prendergast;
• T Browne,
• B Phelan,
• J Kennedy;
• M Walsh (capt),
• D Bennett;
• S Prendergast,
• D Shanahan,
• S Molumphy;
• J Mullane,
• G Hurney,

15. E McGrath

Professey Chin

4 of which are still there.....

Deise Tom

KevIRL wrote: »

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

If its true, does it not say that what was in Damien Tiernan's book was correct despite what some will say. Did i read some place in the past when Clare was it won their all-Ireland's the players gave it up while they were in the championship.

deisedude

KevIRL wrote: »

Also big plea to Waterford fans....Please turn out for the Munster final. Being vastly outnumbered by Limerick fans today was pretty embarassing considering not so long ago we regarded ourselves as amoung the best supported teams in the country.

Were we vastly outnumbered? Where i was sitting I couldnt even see a Limerick fan! There were more Limerick fans on the terrace undoubtedly. Have to remember Limerick fans havent had a team to cheer in over a year as the Limerick people didnt follow Justins junior B team last year so a good turnout with their renewed sense of optimism was surely expected

Cake Man

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal

Looking at the highlights, I thought Clinton could have stopped the first LK goal, it skidded on the greasy surface but you would have expected him to save it. Bit disappointed with that one. But I very much doubt he'll be dropped now.

Deise Tom

Deise Hurler wrote: »

We were lucky to come out of Thurlus today with a win but this was always going to be a possible banana skin and going into a munster final having not played to our potential and being underdogs is a good position to be in.

Here's my two cents for what its worth.

Posters are saying that davy didnt make good decisions on the line but the moving of brick to full back worked out a treat, but then again brick could play anywhere and be brilliant. His dominance is a loss to the half back line but against a tipp forward line who will go for goals against us, i feel he will be needed in front of the goal for the next day.

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal. Adrian Power is a much better keeper, i feel and with him in goals I don't think we wont be leaking the goals we are. I don't think this change will be made but if we are to concede less goals Clinton needs to learn to stand his ground when a forward is bearing down on goal, make himself big and stop making these ridiculous dives which never result in a save.

Another player I would like to see added to the starting team is Aidan Kearney, who is a class act and if fully fit is well capable of returning to the form of a few years ago. I would play him in what many consider his best position wing back. I would fear Jamie Nagle starting wing back the next day as he has got heaps of chances and is just not up to intercounty standard, even if he did ok when he came on today.

Our half forward line was cleaned out today in the aeriel battle with limerick, especially in the second half. This is something which needs to be worked on with in training over the next few weeks. I wouldn't make any changes in this line however as I feel we have the right players in the right positions here (unless kelly hits a rich vein of form of course). Instead we need to work of the quality of ball played into the forwards and of our puck outs.

Finally, it was great to get three goals today and I think having Shane Walsh in Full Forward (should have been left there for the whole match) and Brian O' Sullivan, who looks like a good goal threat, as well as Mullane in there has added a dimension to our game that we just haven't had in recent years. We could have had 5 goals today and with the right ball into these boys vs Tipp who knows.

Anyway my team for the next day would be:

1. Adrian Power
2. Darragh Fives
3. Brick Walsh
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Kevin Moran
7. Aidan Kearney
8. Ritchie Foley
9. Stephen Molumphy
10. Maurice Shanahan
11. Shane O' Sullivan
12. Pauric Mahony
13. Brian O' Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. John Mullane

If you were to have Adrian in goal, would you get rid of the short puck outs. Adrian's puck outs are a huge advantage and it could be criminal not to use them.

KevIRL

deisedude wrote: »

Were we vastly outnumbered? Where i was sitting I couldnt even see a Limerick fan! There were more Limerick fans on the terrace undoubtedly. Have to remember Limerick fans havent had a team to cheer in over a year as the Limerick people didnt follow Justins junior B team last year so a good turnout with their renewed sense of optimism was surely expected

I did a quick headcount at half time and it was 10,216 Limerick, 5,143 Waterford and 181 nuetral

deisedude

KevIRL wrote: »

I did a quick headcount at half time and it was 10,216 Limerick, 5,143 Waterford and 181 nuetral

You must have missed me, I went out to the jacks at half time!:D

flahavaj

Deise Tom wrote: »

Cork gave six players their debut against Waterford in 1999. They went on to win the Munster and All-Ireland finals. If you are good enough you will settle in quickly.

Its not as if Waterford aren't still in the runing for both Munster and the All Ireland. I'm sure Cork improved as the Summer went on in 1999 and the six lads bedded in more and more. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Fentdog84

reasons for poor waterford turnout

1/ The weather- there was bad forecast for Sunday all week, and probably another 5-6000 would have turned up today had it not been pissing this morning so they decided **** that, its easier to watch on telly

2/ Ticket prices- we live in recessionary times but the GAA certainly arent. 30 euro for the stand is crazy. It was also pretty cynical leaving the Killnalin end closed thus stopping people going in for cheaper. Plus it made the stadium look even more empty.

3/ lack of hype- waterford were expected to win this game from the outset and little was known about Limerick, they have no real big names in the side. Lets face it they are not Kilkenny, Tipp or Cork. So the interest in the game wasnt going to be as high

flahavaj

Deise Tom wrote: »

Again is that a bit of a mit. Have a look at Justin's first championship team in 2002 against Cork I think, and that which he selected against Clare in his last game. There is five players that were involved in the two games from the start.

Team in 2002

• S Brenner
• J Murray
• T Feeney
• B Flannery
• P Queally
• F Hartley
• E Murphy
• T Browne
• D Bennett
• E Kelly
• A Moloney
• P Flynn
• J Mullane
• S Prendergast
• E McGrath

Team in 2008

• C Hennessey;
• S Kearney
• K Moran
• D Prendergast;
• T Browne,
• B Phelan,
• J Kennedy;
• M Walsh (capt),
• D Bennett;
• S Prendergast,
• D Shanahan,
• S Molumphy;
• J Mullane,
• G Hurney,

15. E McGrath

How many of those changes were forced by retirement? If fit, Kelly, Ken and Murphy from the 2002 would also have started that game in 2008. It seesm to me Justin would pick players he knew well no matter how well or badly they were playing, based on their previous reputation. Davy Fitz does not.

Look at the turnover of players Fitzgerald has had in half the time. You're picking specific line ups to suit your argument, instead of looking at the overall policies of the managers. Say what you like about Davy (and at ths stage your incessant negativity towards him is getting very tedious tbh) but he has given a huge number and variety of player from across the county a chance to stake a claim for this team and has shown he won't pick players based on reputation.

Daysha

Deise Tom wrote: »

If its true, does it not say that what was in Damien Tiernan's book was correct despite what some will say. Did i read some place in the past when Clare was it won their all-Ireland's the players gave it up while they were in the championship.

Nobody ever denied that the players went out on a few sessions in the past (not that there's any problems with that). The problem some had with it was how it was portrayed, i.e. that it was one of the contributing factors for not winning an All-Ireland.

And even if that was or wasn't the case, what difference would tonight make to any of that?