"Moderation" on this website - why is it so strict?

bobbysands81

Was it always so strict or did it just evolve that way?

IMO this website would be so much better if some of the moderators just chilled a little bit.

Some of the yellow/red cards being handed out are petty and ridiculous.

No problem coming down hard on people that deserve it but on many forums you can't speak your mind whilst remaining friendly and civil without getting infractions. You'd nearly need a degree in boards.ie to know what you can and can't post in various forums, instead of a friendly warning being handed down you can get slapped with a ban or infraction. It's the same for tongue-in-cheek remarks or slagging someone, it just can't be done for fear of some moderator taking it the wrong way and handing out a ban.

***Note to moderators, any chance you can please not touch this post just to see can we have an adult conversation about it? If it's not in the appropriate forum please can it be moved there without giving me an infraction? Thank you.***

tbh

there are loads of sites where there is no moderation at all, and yet this site is still the most popular Irish site. It's because people don't want to read threads full of "lol" "u're a fag" "Hitler was a great man" etc etc.

What's tongue-in-cheek to you as a user is a pain in the whole for the moderator - 99.9% of the people who post on boards understand this and have no problem with it. The .1% of people who don't either get that boards degree, or go somewhere else. Either way, boards keeps rolling.

bobbysands81

tbh wrote: »

there are loads of sites where there is no moderation at all, and yet this site is still the most popular Irish site. It's because people don't want to read threads full of "lol" "u're a fag" "Hitler was a great man" etc etc.

What's tongue-in-cheek to you as a user is a pain in the whole for the moderator - 99.9% of the people who post on boards understand this and have no problem with it. The .1% of people who don't either get that boards degree, or go somewhere else. Either way, boards keeps rolling.

You've completely missed by point.

My query is with regard to how strict moderation can be at times, not that there is moderation.

I believe some moderation is required or the message board would turn into a farce.

tbh

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You've completely missed by point.

My query is with regard to how strict moderation can be at times, not that there is moderation.

I believe some moderation is required or the message board would turn into a farce.

it's only strict in your opinion. Well, I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks it's strict, but you're obviously in a minority who think it's too strict.

Probably what caused this is you got punished for a remark that you considered a joke, but the mod didn't, would that be right?

bobbysands81

tbh wrote: »

it's only strict in your opinion. Well, I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks it's strict, but you're obviously in a minority who think it's too strict.

Probably what caused this is you got punished for a remark that you considered a joke, but the mod didn't, would that be right?

Nope.

The moderating in the soccer forum is the reason for this thread.

Ponster

The yellow card infraction is the warning. In the olden days when traffic and membership was much lower it was maybe possible to pen a personal PM to everybody who was either breaking the rules or close to doing so.

While this system is more impersonal it allows a greater % of incidents to be addressed.

Karl Hungus

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You'd nearly need a degree in boards.ie to know what you can and can't post in various forums, instead of a friendly warning being handed down you can get slapped with a ban or infraction.

But that's what an infraction is; a warning. A reminder that what the poster who receives the infraction has done isn't ok. Whether it's an actual private message from a moderator highlighting the issue with a post, or a red or yellow card, it's still serving the same purpose.

Dades

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The moderating in the soccer forum is the reason for this thread.

Examples or it never happened.

Nerin

Dades wrote: »

Examples or it never happened.

Move to helpdesk for specifics.

therecklessone

The OP is referring to my moderation of a specific thread on the soccer forum, which he PMed me about yesterday. I'm out of the country at the moment, but I've replied to him this morning.

On a general note, the soccer forum is moderated the way it is so that this doesn't happen again:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=153311

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152971

And we make no apologies for that.

There is a forum charter which all users are supposed to read and abide by (if not agree with)

--amadeus--

There are - broadly speaking - 2 types of forum on this site. You have teh "subject" forums and teh "social" forums.

Social forums - AH, The Noc, LL, etc - will generally allow a fair degree of latitude in posting. You can make jokes, go OT, engage in a bit of banter. There is a line and it varies from forum to forum but generally speaking a bit of craic is what those forums are there for.

Then you have the Subject forums. Photography, Economics, Running for example. They are there to allow people who have a specific shared interest to discuss that interest. The point isn't just to have the craic, it's often quite serious. And that can seem a bit dull to people who aren't interested in that subject but hey, that's life.

Now speaking from personal experience I can tell you that it is a colossal pain in teh a*se when someone comes into a Subject forum and trys to be "funny". It's out of place, it's out of context, it's always unpopular with the regulars, it drags threads OT, leads to flamewars and just p*sses people off. It really is not worth the hassle. So if you go to a Subject forum and your 1st post is a "joke" or a "slag" then you'll probably get a warning. Or maybe even a ban. Because there may be hundreds (or thousands) of regulars who will get annoyed by what you've done and it's teh Mods job to keep the majority happy.

the mistake you are making - and it's a common one - is to think of Boards.ie as one site. In reality it's not - it's hundreds of little sites under one URL. So the Soccer forum is a mini-site in it's own right that has different rules and regulations, different conventions and standards to somewhere like AH. As a poster it is up to you to read the Charter in each forum and ideally lurk a bit, or at least read some of teh posts so that you get a feel for what is and isn't acceptable before you go wading in. If you do that you won't get so many warnings.

Boston

I was going to make a joke about bobbysands81 being a terrorist scumbag in an attempt to hiighlight the need for strict moderation in a funny and irony way, then I took a closer look at the user name and decided people might take me literally.

Latchy

Being taken literally can be a hazard at times on boards and the smilies help but dont always convey the point or ' punch line ' of the post to some

Gordon

bobbysands81 wrote: »

***Note to moderators, any chance you can please not touch this post just to see can we have an adult conversation about it?

If people can't have an adult conversation you want us to moderate the thread by giving out warnings and bans?

Nevyn

If you want to figure out which forums have stricter moderation then others then read the charter of the forum and have a read over some of the threads to pick up an idea of the tone of the forum.

torrential

Boston wrote: »

I was going to make a joke about bobbysands81 being a terrorist scumbag in an attempt to hiighlight the need for strict moderation in a funny and irony way, then I took a closer look at the user name and decided people might take me literally.

Posting in a Boston thread.

GodSaveTheQueen

Boston wrote: »

I was going to make a joke about bobbysands81 being a terrorist scumbag in an attempt to hiighlight the need for strict moderation in a funny and irony way, then I took a closer look at the user name and decided people might take me literally.

I was going to make the same joke about Joe bloggs,

But I didn't

Dudess

bobbysands81 wrote: »

on many forums you can't speak your mind whilst remaining friendly and civil without getting infractions. You'd nearly need a degree in boards.ie to know what you can and can't post in various forums, instead of a friendly warning being handed down you can get slapped with a ban or infraction. It's the same for tongue-in-cheek remarks or slagging someone, it just can't be done for fear of some moderator taking it the wrong way and handing out a ban.

That isn't actually true - and this isn't bias coming from a moderator. I've always been vocal about anything I perceive as unfair treatment (I couldn't give a flying **** if I'm a moderator). People don't get reprimands if they are friendly and civil unless they are breaching the charter, which varies from forum to forum. This crap of moderators punishing people simply for disagreeing with them is not actual reality. I always give friendly warnings too - I won't get stricter unless pushed. Sorry but you're talking completely unsubstantiated nonsense.

***Note to moderators, any chance you can please not touch this post just to see can we have an adult conversation about it? If it's not in the appropriate forum please can it be moved there without giving me an infraction? Thank you.***

Oh right - so you insert a nice little passive-aggressive addendum that implies all moderators aren't capable of being adults. Eh... we're not all the same - perhaps you shouldn't tar us with the same brush. :rolleyes:

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The moderating in the soccer forum is the reason for this thread.

Oh so it's not actually about Boards.ie, it's about one forum... one thread in fact. But you know, blanketly condemn all moderators - that's reasonable.

LuckyLloyd

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Nope.

The moderating in the soccer forum is the reason for this thread.

Awesome.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I don't think it's too strict in general (the site not the Soccor Forum) but there's a few who take it a bit too serious and can't leave a discussion alone even when there's no trouble being caused. There's a good few topic specific forums that allow for free form discussion (the Beer n' Wine n' Spirits forum is pretty good I think) of course provided there's no abuse, illegal stuff etc.

I wouldn't totally agree with the bit unbiased moderator in disagreement there though Dudess but you're pretty nice :pac:.

watty

There is some argument for having more consistent Moderation and stricter Moderation on some things.

Very little argument for less Moderation. It's the amount of Moderation IMO that has made this site successful.

The vast majority of Moderators are fair, even-handed and the right amount of Moderation or the Forums they Mod would die from Anarchy or lack of Posts.


The main change I'd like is more consistency across boards. Some topics can be moderated more lightly or differently in a specific Forum or Thread (i.e. sexual issues in Sex & Sexuality), but otherwise should be treated the same?

Boston

I think you'd get a lowest common denominator in that case with mods having to take a hard line where they wouldn't otherwise or a soft life where they'd want to be harder. Different people have different styles and you can't treat boards as a homogenise entity, if you try you'll cause strife. The lack of consistency across forums is a major barrier to wider participation but you're always going to have some level of that.

projectmayhem

I like to take a pro-active back seat when I moderate. None of the forums I moderate are too serious (DIT can get tense at times) so maybe my opinion is skewed in that sense. I can see strict moderation required in soccer because it can decent into a disaster quickly, and PI for obvious reasons.

Some other forums do have excessive moderation, for no reason other then to just mod for the sake of it, it seems.

The larger issue here is not that moderation is not consistent (it can't be, two different forums are different and require unique treatment) but that some forum rules can ruin the art of conversation. People fight, bicker and are pests.. it's human nature. Sometimes that needs to happen as part of the natural flow of a thread, IMO. Boards is undergoing a big transition, and the risk now is that over-modding will turn boards into a business model, rather then an online forum for discussion.

SectionF

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Was it always so strict or did it just evolve that way?

IMO this website would be so much better if some of the moderators just chilled a little bit.

Some of the yellow/red cards being handed out are petty and ridiculous.

No problem coming down hard on people that deserve it but on many forums you can't speak your mind whilst remaining friendly and civil without getting infractions. You'd nearly need a degree in boards.ie to know what you can and can't post in various forums, instead of a friendly warning being handed down you can get slapped with a ban or infraction. It's the same for tongue-in-cheek remarks or slagging someone, it just can't be done for fear of some moderator taking it the wrong way and handing out a ban.

***Note to moderators, any chance you can please not touch this post just to see can we have an adult conversation about it? If it's not in the appropriate forum please can it be moved there without giving me an infraction? Thank you.***

Well said. I fully agree.

humanji

SectionF wrote: »

Well said. I fully agree.

I thought you left?

SectionF

humanji wrote: »

I thought you left?

So did I. I anticipated that I would be leaving, and still do. Sorry not to have squared that circle for you.
I'll leave when I'm zapped, or whatever. In the meantime I'll savour the feeling of liberation and say what I like about censorship on boards.ie, if that's ok with you. I'm being civil to you now only because I want to, and not because some puerile goon wants to make me.

humanji

SectionF wrote: »

So did I. I anticipated that I would be leaving, and still do. Sorry not to have squared that circle for you.
I'll leave when I'm zapped, or whatever. In the meantime I'll savour the feeling of liberation and say what I like about censorship on boards.ie, if that's ok with you. I'm being civil to you now only because I want to, and not because some puerile goon wants to make me.

Ah, so you want to be banned to try and justify your reasons for leaving, but haven't realised that ironically enough, you're validating the reasons for the moderation of the site.

Boards isn't strict at all compared to a lot of sites. But the simple rule of behaving yourself is too much for some. They get a slap on the hand and assume that their human rights have be stripped away. Where in reality, they should just realise that maybe, just maybe, they're the problem, and not the site.

SectionF

humanji wrote: »

Ah, so you want to be banned to try and justify your reasons for leaving, but haven't realised that ironically enough, you're validating the reasons for the moderation of the site.

Boards isn't strict at all compared to a lot of sites. But the simple rule of behaving yourself is too much for some. They get a slap on the hand and assume that their human rights have be stripped away. Where in reality, they should just realise that maybe, just maybe, they're the problem, and not the site.

I don't want to discuss this in someone else's thread. Suffice to say I'm outside the boards.ie jurisdiction now, and behaving accordingly. I haven't done so before. If you want to continue this elsewhere, so as to allow the thread to return to its very valid topic, then start a new thread and assuming I'm around I'll be happy to engage.

Tom Dunne

Here's why I think moderation is the way it is on Boards.ie: because a lot of people can't be trusted to act in a civil and responsible manner.

I don't know about you, but I've been on similar forums where discussion is interrupted by txt speak, advertisements, all-out no-holds-barred arguing, porn and general idiocy of the highest order. Keyboard warriors out in force, disrupting any semblance of discussion.

That's why there are so many different areas on Boards.ie - some serious, some not so serious. Knowing what goes where is key to enjoying Boards.ie.

Knowing how to any responsibly and not throw your toys out of the pram when you cross the line is also an important part of Boards.ie.

Some people "get" the ethos of Boards.ie, some don't. That's life.

Wibbs

For such a big and wide ranging site, the level of complaint is very low. Remarkably so. That tells me at least that the majority are happy with the moderation and the style of moderation on the site. It's never going to be ideal and it will vary across different forums, but in the main it's working. The numbers speak for themselves. Yes that may be a lazy enough argument, but it does hold a lot of water.

Now the relatively low level of complaint may also sometimes show up some users feelings of the futility of complaining. They may feel nothing will be done so why bother. I think that does come into it somewhat TBH. I also think in a minority of cases over particular things that may even happen. Still I think that's still a minority and it's not a consistent thing.

The style of complaint and how someone who feels they have a grievance puts their case is another biggy. If I get a PM from a user I'm far more likely to listen if they set out their case in something approaching a straightforward manner. Im also more likely to listen if it's a user that isn't a consistent troublemaker in the forum. Ditto for a user who gets the general vibe of the place. People who are only here a wet day who come out with the fight the powah stuff straight off the bat hardly appeals as you just feel you're going to going around in ever decreasing circles. It's like walking into someone's house and complaining about the decor.

I also feel that even if boards was approaching perfection, then there would still be a small minority of posters who would still not fit in. It even happens within boards itself. There are forums here I wouldn't fit into. Just wouldn't be my thing and that's cool IMHO. I don't think that's going to change either, but for those like that there's an online world out there where they will fit in somewhere.

SectionF

Well Wibbs, I think that's fine in theory, but it doesn't pan out until you post something that a mod takes exception to and, PMs or no, refuses to justify his response. That does seem to be a pattern here, and the fact that the rules are so hokey merely serves to confirm that they do what they like, with no concept of any standards.