Alonso or Lewis

thegoth

Hi was just wondering which one of the above would you have in your team, given a choice. I think it would be very close.

I think both have a very similar level of talent but Alonso MAY have more as when they were teammates, its seemed to take Alonso the first half of the year to adapt to the new generation of tyre as it did several other drivers. This was Lewis first year, so he did not have to adapt to new F1 tyres, but yes, he did have to adapt to F1. In the second hand of the season, Alonso had the slight upper hand. This maybe meaningless. Judging teammates over just one seaon is not ideal. If you judged Rubens and Jensen from last year alone, you would think Rubens was the faster

Anyway, I would go for Alonso. Just.

mrmac

Lewis - history will prove me right!

Alonso has all the passion and "rage" to drive the wheels off the car, certainly very determined, (and I feel the guy really enjoys racing!), where as Lewis is more "robotic" in his racing (more of a career for him).

That doesn't make Lewis a better driver, but I think, in the long run, Lewis will have a better race points tally.

muckwarrior

mrmac wrote: »

, where as Lewis is more "robotic" in his racing (more of a career for him).

.

Don't confuse lack of personality with robotic racing. I think Lewis has made more mistakes in the heat of the moment than most.

tommiejoie

I think Alonso can do much more in a poor car than Lewis. Also, I wouldn't have been happy with the way Lewis was publiclly slagging off the team when the car was bad. It was a bit too much in my opinion. Alonso is still the #1 driver on the grid in my opinion.

Ghost Train

Think they showed when they raced together that there wasn't much between them

Alonso has achieved more but Lewis has time on his side, so would probably go Lewis

Frank Bullitt

Alonso,no doubt,has heart,passion and unmatched skill in the car,if he has a car that can win next year then watch him go.

De Hipster

Absolutely without a doubt between the two Alonso.
Lewis for all his moulding and professional Motorsport McLaren connection spanning 12+ years has (for me) demonstrated very little gratitude or loyalty to the team in the most recent season & the run up to it.

Now don't get me wrong...loyalty and talent are far removed in Motorsport competitive edge, for the question posed, it's one of the reasons I would NOT choose Lewis along with his hot-headedness.

enzo7

Alonso everytime.

talent wise i dont think lewis is far behind but what lets lewis down is he makes far too many mistakes and his biggest flaw is his lack of loyailty , if he cant show a team who has supported him since he was a kid a little loyailty what hope has any other team got. For all alonsos fire and passion his pretty solid behind the wheel

lendrew1

It would have to be Lewis because:
1. Age
2. Talent.
3. Loyalty (He's been at McLaren since he was 10)
I'm still undecided on who's the better driver but Hamilton has a few years on Alonso.

Top Dog

Alonso every day of the week

EvilMonkey

Alonso
He is a better driver now.
He could do another 10+ years and he is only going to get more experienced.
He works very hard supporting the team, working on setups.
He is a more intelligent driver, uses his head makes less mistakes(sure there have been a few)

frostie500

Top Dog wrote: »

Alonso every day of the week

And twice on Sundays!

thegoth

1. Age
2. Talent.
3. Loyalty (He's been at McLaren since he was 10)

1. Age - Both easily have 8+ years left, so not really an issue
2. Seem very equally matched
3. Loyalty - This is neither drivers strong point, but I would side with Alonso. Why? 3 reasons

1) Lewis actually has not been with McLaren since he was 10. He and his father fell out with McLaren in 2005 over what direction his career should take. They thought they could get another team to bankroll him. They were wrong. No other team would give him a penny. They even tried Williams. So back they go, with their tails between their legs to Ron Dennis, who takes them back. How do Lewis and his father repay him ? By being the root cause of Ron getting/leaving McLaren

2) Lewis was the root cause of the trouble with Alonso

3) He all but said he wanted to leave McLaren at the start of this year when they built a si*t car

In summary, its Alonso for me as he seems to have a better attitude.

lendrew1

Alonso is only 26 or 27 so he isnt over the hill, just look at other multiple WC who were winning World titles in the 30`s.
2. Alonso is a better driver than lewis.
3. Loyalty is very rare these days in any form of sport. It means little these days with big contract deals flying around.

1.He's 28 and has 8 full seasons experience compared to Lewis' 2.
2.What happened in 2007?
3.If he hadn't thrown a tantrum that year he could have went on to win the championship instead of arsin about in Hungary. If he won the title that year and didn't pee off Ron Dennis he would have stayed at McLaren and we could have been talking about a quadruple world champion.
I'm not trying to bash Alonso here but the point of the thread is who would you hire and Hamilton can only get better imo.

lendrew1

By being the root cause of Ron getting/leaving McLaren

Everyone knows that it was not Hamiltons decision to lie to the stewards. It was Mosley who forced Dennis out anyway.

Lewis was the root cause of the trouble with Alonso

What else did he do apart from try to win? Alonso made a balls of it at Hungary and made the situation press-worthy.

He all but said he wanted to leave McLaren at the start of this year when they built a si*t car

That was over the Melbourne incedent.

enzo7

lendrew1 wrote: »

3. Loyalty (He's been at McLaren since he was 10)

That has to be his biggest downfall his lack of it, Where was his loyailty when he stood by and let a guy who was loyal to his team for 35yr take the wrap for his mistake. Where was his loyailty when he failed to puplicly express his commitment to his team when things were tough for them earlier in the season. Actually that another reason i wouldnt hire him his lack of leadership skills when things get tough. Alonso is only a yr older than schumacher when he moved to ferrari. They still maybe plenty of titles in alonso yet:D

enzo7

lendrew1 wrote: »

Everyone knows that it was not Hamiltons decision to lie to the stewards. It was Mosley who forced Dennis out anyway.

.

Are you serious do you really think just because it wasnt lewis "idea" he wasnt competely wrong to lie on numerous occasions to the stewards.

lendrew1

1. I never said that Alonso being older than Hamilton was a problem but the fact Lewis is the younger of the two is a benefit.
2.2007 was the only year we can compare the two and Hamilton came out on top. For 2009 Hamilton had the worst car but I can't compare them on this season as its not over
3.The reason Alonso wasn't favoured is because of his antics in Hungary. If he kept his feelings to himself and not the public he could have won the WC and mabye he would have stayed a McLaren and we could have been talking about a 4-time champion. DC wasn't favoured because he couldn't keep up with Kimi and Mika and he'll admit that.
I said I think he'll get better. Thats my opinion, which could be wrong. The way this season is going i wouldn't be suprised if they went to NASCAR :pac:
If the news about Alonso going to Ferrari is true, we'll be looking forward to a good scrap between 2 top notch like drivers 2000 again:D

lendrew1

enzo7 wrote: »

Are you serious do you really think just because it wasnt lewis "idea" he wasnt competely wrong to lie on numerous occasions to the stewards.

No, but what other young driver wouldnt have done the same!

ottostreet

If I were a team principal, I'd take Kimi over both of them. Even anti-fans (I hate the term 'haters') have to admit that he is well capable of matching and beating Lewis & Fernando. After all, Kimi has been inconsistent for..just over a year now (I mark the French GP 2008 as the start of his rocky period). At no stage over the previous 5-6 years has Kimi looked shaky or inconsistent. Looking back on old races, i don't see any area that Kimi is a lesser driver than FA or LH, and he has a lot more proven experience than Hamilton. You also get a driver who is loyal, and not prone to temper tantrums! Good luck getting him to talk though!

But the question is...FA or LH. I'd take Fernando. Again, I don't see any area in which hes weak. Both are hot-headed and volatile, but Fernando doesnt have any question marks over him. A very dedicated driver who shows passion and enthusiasm, and reaching his peak maturity and speed-wise. He was not loyal to McLaren but I don't feel McLaren treated him well at all. What he did was inexcusable, but as a driver, I'd choose him. Lewis, for me, rubs me up the wrong way personality-wise. Driving wise, he can't be faulted, but I don't see what hes done thats superior to anything Fernando or Kimi have done in the past.

tommiejoie

ottostreet wrote: »

Lewis, for me, rubs me up the wrong way personality-wise.

Taking his public, in front of the camera image, I'd have to agree with your sentiments on Lewis. I think he's overly corporate, plastic even. In that regard he's a perfect fit with Mclaren, certainly through the Ron Dennis era.

Having said that, when he is not in front of the camera to the world, he seems like a really cool down to earth guy. I say this because I saw him at an appearance for the fans at Silverstone this year and he was quite chatty and relaxed. I have a video of this actually, I'll try and get it up on YouTube later.

enzo7

lendrew1 wrote: »

No, but what other young driver wouldnt have done the same!

non of them its got nothing to do with age, its mentality. The thing is you could forgive him for the first lie nearly (it was after the race adrenline still pumping ect.) but to continue to lie again and again for another 4 days!! If he had turned around on the monday and said listen i lied im really sorry ect and took responsiblity people would hav a hell of alot more respect for the guy.

enzo7

ottostreet wrote: »

If I were a team principal, I'd take Kimi over both of them. Even anti-fans (I hate the term 'haters') have to admit that he is well capable of matching and beating Lewis & Fernando. After all, Kimi has been inconsistent for..just over a year now (I mark the French GP 2008 as the start of his rocky period). At no stage over the previous 5-6 years has Kimi looked shaky or inconsistent. Looking back on old races, i don't see any area that Kimi is a lesser driver than FA or LH, and he has a lot more proven experience than Hamilton. You also get a driver who is loyal, and not prone to temper tantrums! Good luck getting him to talk though!

But the question is...FA or LH. I'd take Fernando. Again, I don't see any area in which hes weak. Both are hot-headed and volatile, but Fernando doesnt have any question marks over him. A very dedicated driver who shows passion and enthusiasm, and reaching his peak maturity and speed-wise. He was not loyal to McLaren but I don't feel McLaren treated him well at all. What he did was inexcusable, but as a driver, I'd choose him. Lewis, for me, rubs me up the wrong way personality-wise. Driving wise, he can't be faulted, but I don't see what hes done thats superior to anything Fernando or Kimi have done in the past.

In fairness to anti-kimi fans myself included , no one has ever questioned his talents and on his day his as good as anyone bar alonso but those days are long gone. If it were between alonso,kimi on his day and lewis id still pick alonso everytime then kimi and then lewis.

I thought alonso was insane when he signed for maclaren i never thought it would work out because his not robotic his a driver who needs to be looked after hav a proper relationship with a team, he didnt show maclaren much loyailty but they didnt show him any either so who could blame him. I think he will fit in perfectly at ferrari.

thegoth

What Happened in 2007 ?

Well basically, during qualifying Lewis was fueled heavier that Alonso. McLaren told lewis this and ordered him to let Alonso. Lewis refused to obey a direct, legal, team order. Of course Alonso got revenge by not leaving his pit area in time, hints holding up Lewis, costing him his flying lap. This resulted in Alonso's fallout with McLaren that eventually led to him leaving McLaren. Who was at the root of all this ? Lewis. Bear in mind, this was only like his 9th grand prix or something

frostie500

enzo7 wrote: »

non of them its got nothing to do with age, its mentality. The thing is you could forgive him for the first lie nearly (it was after the race adrenline still pumping ect.) but to continue to lie again and again for another 4 days!! If he had turned around on the monday and said listen i lied im really sorry ect and took responsiblity people would hav a hell of alot more respect for the guy.

Not only this but could you honestly see McLaren asking Senna, Prost, Lauda etc asking those drivers to lie? Points to the fact that the team do not believe that Lewis would stand by his convictions, or that Lewis was the instigator....

dor83

I would take Alonso because in my opinion he is a much better driver than Hamilton, I personally think Hamilton is over hyped and would take at least 5 other drivers before I would have him. On driving skill I think Alonso is much better and I have always thought that Hamilton will be another Montoya or Villeneuve, who in my opinion were two of the most over rated drivers I have seen in F1.

On personality I would probably pick Alonso too, but it would be a lot closer because I don't think either is loyal to heir team. Everybody has talked about Hamilton is this respect but what about Alonso. I always liked Alonso until the end of the 2006 season, things started to go against him and Schumacher was getting back into the title race and out of nowhere he comes out and says to the press that the Renault team were trying to sabotage his title because he was moving to McLaren the following season. This, for me, shows a total lack of loyalty and respect for his team and is as bad as anything Hamilton has done.

EvilMonkey

lendrew1 wrote: »

If the news about Alonso going to Ferrari is true, we'll be looking forward to a good scrap between 2 top notch like drivers 2000 again:D

Cant wait Massa and Alonso.

Iron Hide

Fernando over Lewis any day, Better driver, has a bit more cop on and common sense about him. And hasn't got Lewis' red mist tendencies either..

Peadar87

has to be alsono think his mentality he much better. Also bottled one world championship and was lucky to win it last year until glock pulled up on the last lap

Bubs101

Although Alonso is a better driver, if I was in charge of a Formula one company I'd have to go with Lewis because a black english speaking driver is incredibly marketable and not that much worse than Alonso driving

ottostreet

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I wouldnt give a hoot what colour or nationality my driver was if I was going to choose a driver for my team.

+1, its getting very irritating that the marketability of a driver is important. All I care about is...'Is he fast', 'Is he consistent', and 'can he keep it out of a wall' and 'Will fe f&^k up my team if I hire him?'. I understand that partisanship is always going to exist amongst the media and fans, but theres no excuse for a team to be so. Who does the best job? Get them.

Black/Asian/Spanish/Finnish/Polish/German...does it really matter?

Victor McDade

Alonso, no question.

But Hamilton would probably create more money for the team through sponsorship/media and you'd have Nicole walking around the place every other week looking lovely :cool:

EvilMonkey

Bubs101 wrote: »

Although Alonso is a better driver, if I was in charge of a Formula one company I'd have to go with Lewis because a black english speaking driver is incredibly marketable and not that much worse than Alonso driving

Alonso speaks 4 or 5 languages way more marketable, although what this has to do with a drivers ability i dont know.

savemejebas wrote: »

But Hamilton would probably create more money for the team through sponsorship/media and you'd have Nicole walking around the place every other week looking lovely :cool:

Interesting but is it not Santander that want to get Alonso at Ferrari? Aren't they currently or were recently a sponsors of McLaren, possibly only because they signed Alonso a few years ago? Granted they are a Spanish bank.

And to be honest having that bint around is only damaging to his appearance in my opinion, I mean grow some balls and tell her to **** off to the vip room or sit quietly in the back like everyone else's family, guests.

cashmni1

Bubs101 wrote: »

Although Alonso is a better driver, if I was in charge of a Formula one company I'd have to go with Lewis because a black english speaking driver is incredibly marketable and not that much worse than Alonso driving

Interesting point of view. Completely the opposite to mine however.
The team boss is charged with the task of winning the constructors c.ship. (and of course the drivers, having the winning driver on their team). The team has to be run as a package. The driver marketing thing is only one (all be it large) component in the winning team formula. The teams prime objective is to win.
Alonso would be a much healthier option for a team, i.e. team development, and car development along with huge reserves of skill.
I also think that there is very little between them in terms of skill, but for the team.....no question for me.
Alonso.

thelittleflames

Definately Alonso. The last two years have seen him mature. I can see him challenging schumacher for the best ever driver if he gets a good car.

smooch71

How the hell did I miss this thread??

Alonso all day long. Roll on next year when we'll see him in the red suit.

He's the most complete driver on the grid today bar none in my opinion.

I wouldn't let Hamilton or his Da near me. His girlfriend's not bad though. Wonder how long that will last....

gpjordanf1

Alonso all day every day. Such a brilliant driver, maturity coming through now, not that if was short me it anyway. I rather see button as a champion before lewis and I cant stand button. If I was a team manager i'd have Alonso and sutil, good balance with sutil pushing Alonso on.

manutd4life

no question it has to be alonso.he's a 2 time world champion beating the legend that is schumi on both ocassions.he's faster and you know he wont make any stupid mistakes

smooch71

Just a question

Are most people picking Alonso because he's a better driver, or because Hamilton is the most annoying twat on the planet? (With the exception of James Allen)

manutd4life

i picked him because hes a better driver,hes much more consistent and doesnt make stupid mistakes

vectra

As much as I canot stand him I voted Lewis.
Why?
He is not afraid to make a charge on track.
Makes it exciting to watch

Top Dog

smooch71 wrote: »

Are most people picking Alonso because he's a better driver, or because Hamilton is the most annoying twat on the planet? (With the exception of James Allen)

I'm basing it on talent, maturity and ability. Tried to leave personality out of the equation as it doesn't matter if he's a twat if he brings home the silver.

Oh and I picked Alonso.

Charlie-Bravo

I'd take Alonso into my team....he still has the raw speed andflare....Lewis is too robotic.

Alonso will risk it for a biscuit...Lewis will ask for permission first.

smooch71 wrote: »

(With the exception of James Allen)

I propose a new poll: Jonathan Legard or James Allen?

LEIN

Alonso all the way. Hungary 2006 before the failure shows how talented that man really is.

Button and Hamilton should be lined up before a firing squad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1m9fyJ-dUA

Gulli

Tough one but at a pinch I would go with Hamilton. He seems to be weeding out those impulsively stupid moves like in Japan last year and even though its clear both him and Alonso much perfer an inferior number 2 Hamilton handles an unexpected teammate challenge much better.

As for personality they both seem like sulky children but meh the era of truly likable F1 drivers is gone.

Top Dog

Gulli wrote: »

As for personality they both seem like sulky children but meh the era of truly likable F1 drivers is gone.

There's still a few likeable drivers on the grid - Webber, Massa, Vettel

Iron Hide

Vettel? christ, heard him on the team radio after the British GP this year.. " thank you guys for getting the car ready, i'm so happy, thank you" all in a deadpan accent, no hint of emotion... Kimi used be a right laugh ( Brazil '05 " i was having a ****"), but he seems to have gone a bit boring... Sure Webber and Massa are likeable guys, but theres no real characters..

Oh and Alonso over Lewis any day, Hamiltons just a corporate tool/drone/cyborg/transhuman......whatever

vectra

Red Storm wrote: »

.. Kimi used be a right laugh ( Brazil '05 " i was having a ****"), but he seems to have gone a bit boring..r

If Kimi can get out of the red suit and back into a more informal one then I fully anticipate we will have a rejuvinated Kimi.. I think he is currenty way too much "Under the thumb" so much so that his driving has suffered

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

If Kimi can get out of the red suit and back into a more informal one then I fully anticipate we will have a rejuvinated Kimi.. I think he is currenty way too much "Under the thumb" so much so that his driving has suffered

Bollocks
He is so under the thumb he can go rallying whenever he wants.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Bollocks
He is so under the thumb he can go rallying whenever he wants.

Watch and weep

muckwarrior

I don't think he could be any more under the thumb than when he was at McLaren. The 'taking a ****' thing was said when he was just about to leave the team.