Accepting British rule in the Six Counties

Guevara78

This is the first Generation of Irish people North and South to accept British rule in the Six Counties by endorsing the Good Friday Agreement which enforces British rule indefinitely. Also the British Army numbering some 5,000 are still there and quasi accepted and the British Police force is also accepted. Indeed there is a Home Rule parliament in place and powersharing. The artificial statelet referred to as Northern Ireland came into being through the Government of Ireland Act which was enforced on Nationalist areas undemocratically and yet there has to be an democratic majority in the North wanting a United Ireland to leave the UK! Nationalists in the Six Counties have got nothing from the Good Friday Agreement except permanence of British rule. Bobby Sands did not die for Cross Border bodies with Executive powers as his sister so eloquently put it. If Home Rule and British rule was not acceptable 1919-1921 when the War of Independence was fought all over Ireland or the military campaign from 1969-1997 in the Six Counties it should not be accepted now. All the volunteers who fought in the War of Independence and in the Troubles have been betrayed by this generation. All those brave volunteers died for Ireland trying to end British occupation. From Pearse and Connolly to South and O'Hanlon to Sands and McDonnell It is indeed a sellout of republican ideals! An alternative to the Good Friday Agreement would be 4 federal parliaments in a united Ireland and the Ulster parliament would have a Unionist majority with a large say at government level. Of course no alternative choice such as this was given to the Good Friday Agreement very much along the lines of the Treaty by the British -accept this or else.

djpbarry

I eagerly anticipate the completely unbiased discussion on the status of Northern Ireland that will no doubt develop on this thread…

Zambia

For the love of god ever heard of a paragraph

RiverWilde

djpbarry wrote: »

I eagerly anticipate the completely unbiased discussion on the status of Northern Ireland that will no doubt develop on this thread…

lmao - indeed - oh look there go some flying pigs ........

Riv

thelastditch

I'm not sure what The OP is getting at. Yes Northern Ireland is part of The UK. Republicans underestimated the staying power of The UK state - a permanent security council member with a strong economy, 60 million citizens and a well trained and highly experienced army. In fact The UK was so powerful it didn't need to adopt the ruthless methods favoured by poorer, weaker states in a similar position. But even allowing for all this, two thirds of the population in the disputed territory were actually on the side of The UK (and not just a little bit!) - so the conflict could only end one way. The question is, how could anyone in their right mind see any other outcome?

Wheely

Guevara78 wrote: »

This is the first Generation of Irish people North and South to accept British rule in the Six Counties by endorsing the Good Friday Agreement which enforces British rule indefinitely. Also the British Army numbering some 5,000 are still there and quasi accepted and the British Police force is also accepted. Indeed there is a Home Rule parliament in place and powersharing. The artificial statelet referred to as Northern Ireland came into being through the Government of Ireland Act which was enforced on Nationalist areas undemocratically and yet there has to be an democratic majority in the North wanting a United Ireland to leave the UK! Nationalists in the Six Counties have got nothing from the Good Friday Agreement except permanence of British rule. Bobby Sands did not die for Cross Border bodies with Executive powers as his sister so eloquently put it. If Home Rule and British rule was not acceptable 1919-1921 when the War of Independence was fought all over Ireland or the military campaign from 1969-1997 in the Six Counties it should not be accepted now. All the volunteers who fought in the War of Independence and in the Troubles have been betrayed by this generation. All those brave volunteers died for Ireland trying to end British occupation. From Pearse and Connolly to South and O'Hanlon to Sands and McDonnell It is indeed a sellout of republican ideals! An alternative to the Good Friday Agreement would be 4 federal parliaments in a united Ireland and the Ulster parliament would have a Unionist majority with a large say at government level. Of course no alternative choice such as this was given to the Good Friday Agreement very much along the lines of the Treaty by the British -accept this or else.

That's democracy for ya!!! Bloody people and their voting........:rolleyes:

Lemming

Guevara78 wrote: »

This is the first Generation of Irish people North and South to accept British rule in the Six Counties by endorsing the Good Friday Agreement which enforces British rule indefinitely.

This is the first generation of Irish people north and south to stand up to the men of violence on both sides and say "No more obscenity claimed in our name".

You seem to forget that in your chuckie eagerness to shoot "oo ah up the filth/ra"

Also the British Army numbering some 5,000 are still there and quasi accepted

Accepted possibly because most of them are from Northern Ireland oddly enough since there are home regiments based in N.I. recruiting from amonst the Irish populace (both north and south funnily enough ... ).

and the British Police force is also accepted.

Well, funnily e-f*cking-nough ... N.I. is part of UK jurisdiction and as such has a police force that falls under that jurisdiction; and it's called the PNSI oddly enough, not the "Biritish police force". In fact, I'd go so far as to point out that there is no such police entity in existence called "the British police force" because it'll annoy your fragile chuckie sensibilities.

The artificial statelet referred to as Northern Ireland came into being through the Government of Ireland Act which was enforced on Nationalist areas undemocratically

Oddly enough, the populace of N.I. also voted for the GFA. The majority spoke. That my little chuckie, is called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y. What's that spell now kiddies? Alright, so we aren't all thick as pigsh*te then ... only the chuckies and their loyalist counterparts ...

and yet there has to be an democratic majority in the North wanting a United Ireland to leave the UK!

Look ... learn to count beyond 30 my little chuckie. Ten sad, pitiful little excuses for human beings voting to continue murdering people is not greater than hundreds of thousands wanting the exact opposite; namely some f*cking sanity. Their answer? Ratifying the GFA ... how's that for democratic majority?

Nationalists in the Six Counties have got nothing from the Good Friday

They're alive and not looking over their shoulders wondering if they'll make it home alive tonight to see their families. They're not having to wonder if their son or daugher is going to be knee capped for no good reason or murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd call that "something". In fact I'd call it sanity. They've gotten jobs from the fact that multinationals are now willing to create jobs in N.I. as it's not a chuckie semtex playground. They have the option of a future.

Bobby Sands did not die for Cross Border bodies with Executive powers as his sister so eloquently put it.

No, Bobby Sands died for nothing. He died for a cause that was so utterly and moraly bankrupt as to be ridiculous. He died for a cause that used him and many others as cattle. He died for a cause that continued to use his name as a rallying cry to incite hatred and murder. F*ck his memory if that's what it conjures up. F*ck his sister if that's what she wants. F*ck the 'Ra if that's what the want. And quite frankly f*ck any body else who wants that too.

I am sick and tired of chuckie scum and their apologist scum stoking hatred and misery and death in this country and in the UK. I'm sick and tired of chuckie scum and their apologist scum trying to use my name, the name of my country, and the flag of my country for sick and perverted means. I'm sick and tired of chuckie scum using my mother's nation and national flag as a rally cry to incite murder and misery. I'm sick of their historical relativism and revisionism to suit their own ends. I'm sick and tired of the utterly bankrupt moral revisionism and crocodile tears that the chuckies and their apologists shed.

If Home Rule and British rule was not acceptable 1919-1921 when the War of Independence was fought all over Ireland or the military campaign from 1969-1997 in the Six Counties it should not be accepted now.

I'm sorry ... what? Military campaign? The last forty odd years of history on this island has been nothing of the sort. It's been brutal, callous, obscenity after obscenity where the Irish have shown the world that they are capable of doing monstrous things to each other. We have brutalised none so greater than ourselves, and the last forty years of obscene hatred and terrorism is nothing more than a lesson in collective shame. We should hang our heads and beg humanity for forgiveness for the things that we have done to ourselves.

It is indeed a sellout of republican ideals!

A sell out would imply that the ideals were not morally bankrupt ... You are happy to sit there and exhort people to kill each other for an ideal that the majority of peopl eon this island DO NOT WANT?

I could write more but my blood runs cold with utter contempt for you and your ilk.

Liam Byrne

Probably the biggest load of bile and crap posted on boards in a long while. Barely legible and barely coherent, and typical blinkered "chuckie" crap, as was pointed out above.

As for "no alternative choices"; at least that was one extra choice than was offered to those who were bombed and murdered.

Of course, giving "nothing" to Irish nationalists completely overlooks the number of them that would still be in jail were it not for the fact that we voted to let them out - in return for a promise not to commit any more crimes.

I also had to laugh at the claim of "permanence of British rule"; given that a majority will now allow self-determination (a major development) I would suggest that all of the "chuckies" make love, not war, and create a majority with their sprogs so that they can vote whatever way their heart desires.

This is indeed the first generation to stand up to the thugs and cry stop. And for the most part, it's worked, with the psychos from both sides finally sidelined and slowly but surely getting the message that blowing the bollox out of each other is not a particularly good way to convince them that you've their best interests at heart.

The "cause" has been tainted by thugs and criminals, and it'll take a while before people can disassociate from that.

But thankfully, despite that, Northern Ireland has improved no end, and is relatively safe to visit and do business in. Long may that last.

If option (A) is "accepting British rule [for the time being] so that no-one else gets murdered and option (B) is allowing the thugs to claim that their way is the only way, regardless of the fact that their tactics mean they inevitably kill indiscriminately, even their own "side", then give me option (A) any time.

SeanW

Guevara78 wrote: »

the military campaign from 1969-1997 in the Six Counties it should not be accepted now.

I've got news for you mate, the campaign of violence carried out by the PIRA was not a military campaign, but instead a campaign of terrorism fought primarily against civilians. They were no better, and in many cases worse, than the loyalist paramilitary groups.

Liam Byrne wrote:

If option (A) is "accepting British rule [for the time being] so that no-one else gets murdered and option (B) is allowing the thugs to claim that their way is the only way, regardless of the fact that their tactics mean they inevitably kill indiscriminately, even their own "side", then give me option (A) any time.

+1000

ChocolateSauce

The good Friday enforces the will of the people who live there. That was the point; to make sovereignty their decision, not the decision of either the British or Irish governments.

gurramok

thelastditch wrote: »

I'm not sure what The OP is getting at.

I think the OP's views is anti-SF/SDLP and more like RSF or one of the fringe groups.

thelastditch wrote: »

Yes Northern Ireland is part of The UK. Republicans underestimated the staying power of The UK state - a permanent security council member with a strong economy, 60 million citizens and a well trained and highly experienced army. In fact The UK was so powerful it didn't need to adopt the ruthless methods favoured by poorer, weaker states in a similar position. But even allowing for all this, two thirds of the population in the disputed territory were actually on the side of The UK (and not just a little bit!) - so the conflict could only end one way. The question is, how could anyone in their right mind see any other outcome?

Strong economy?...LOL Its in the sh1t like us!

Where did you get that two thirds from?!

thelastditch

gurramok wrote: »

I think the OP's views is anti-SF/SDLP and more like RSF or one of the fringe groups.



Strong economy?...LOL Its in the sh1t like us!

Where did you get that two thirds from?!

I meant a strong economy compared with say Somalia.

It was a two thirds majority when The PIRA started their campaign.

oscarBravo

I fail to see what this thread adds to the cause of rational discussion.