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Plantation of Ulster stamp

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2456

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    #32
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Thats a great idea. I have an MA in Irish history so I dont need stamps to remind me of the good ol days..:D

    We could compromise and go with 'Irish historical tits' stamps.

    - so long as they are not orange order/ protestant tits it will keep everyone happy.


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    #33
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Thats a great idea. I have an MA in Irish history so I dont need stamps to remind me of the good ol days..:D

    Do you know who will love this more than unionists or those people, that Irish revisionist historian Ruth Dudley Edwards. I say, embrace the stupid stamp just to spite unionists and all of them, and show how 'forward thinking' we are in the Republic!:D


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    #34
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Do you know who will love this more than unionists or those people, that Irish revisionist historian Ruth Dudley Edwards. I say, embrace the stupid stamp just to spite unionists and all of them, and show how 'forward thinking' we are in the Republic!:D


    and then Kevin "I am so full of self loathing" Myers can follow it up with a series in the Indo commerating the Protestant victims of the Plantations.


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    #35
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Morlar wrote: »
    We could compromise and go with 'Irish historical tits' stamps.

    - so long as they are not orange order/ protestant tits it will keep everyone happy.

    A pair of bowler hats with nipples on isn't quite what I was thinking.


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    #36
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Morlar wrote: »
    We could compromise and go with 'Irish historical tits' stamps.

    Mooney would be all for some more blue tits on stamps. Anything to spread the word.


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    #37
    Sherifu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Winters wrote: »
    Mooney would be all for some more blue tits on stamps. Anything to spread the word.
    The bird is the word?


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    #38
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    So, we haven't seen this stamp yet we've already decided to be as offended by it as if it were a 12 foot high statue on O'Connell street of Ian Paisley ramming a broom handle up Padraig Pearse's arse?

    [Now read the rest of this in Dervla Kirwan's best produce-fellating voice]

    "These aren't just any reactionary internet republican cranks. These are A&H reactionary internet republican cranks".


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    #39
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Sherifu wrote: »
    The bird is the word?
    Well don't you know about the bird?


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    #40
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Its a disgrace imo, its like Isreal making a stamp with Hitler on the front. Only in west brit run Ireland:rolleyes:


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    #41
    994
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭994


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Yes because everyone likes to be reminded of the 'good ole days'...
    I think you're about 200 years off there. All the plantation did was replace one group of oppressive landlords with another.


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    #42
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
    We could compromise and go with 'Irish historical tits' stamps.

    - so long as they are not orange order/ protestant tits it will keep everyone happy.
    ejmaztec wrote: »
    A pair of bowler hats with nipples on isn't quite what I was thinking.

    If ever there was a yore ma joke in the waiting . . . Either that or Peig the pipesmoker :)


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    #43
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    994 wrote: »
    I think you're about 200 years off there. All the plantation did was replace one group of oppressive landlords with another.

    Okay this then.


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    #44
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    was there this much fuss about the Flight of the Earls stamps?


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    #45
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Okay this then.
    Should we just sweep our history under the carpet then? It's an event that helped make Ireland what it is today (well that and Fianna Fail, but that's another thread). There's no point only remembering the good things that happened and forgetting about all those who suffered.


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    #46
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Grimes wrote: »
    I want to hear from dflenop and rebelheart on the matter of the offending stamps.

    heh heh no worries mate , you will, plus a few others who can't understand the diaspora which went before us to fashion what we are now.

    Closed minds are rocky roads as the famous poet said.

    They haven't gone away you know;)


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    #47
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    plus a few others who can't understand the diaspora which went before us to fashion what we are now.

    Closed minds are rocky roads as the famous poet said.

    You're going to have to elaborate on that.


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    #48
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Good man.

    Cannot understand plain English.

    Should be fairly plain to most educated peiple.

    Sorry cannot provide links.


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    #49
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Good man.

    That I am.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Cannot understand plain English.

    I sure can, I asked you to elaborate on it.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Should be fairly plain to most educated peiple.

    Educated peiple aye? I don't think I'm a peiple, or is it a pirson?
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Sorry cannot provide links.

    Didn't ask you for links - Asked for you to elaborate and expand on your comment.


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    #50
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    Other stamps in the collection will include:

    'James Connolly tied to a chair!'
    'Cromwell going around Dublin on his horse!'
    'Rossville flats 1972!'


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    #51
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Did I get ticked off by the new mod?

    Anyway I really think that the plantations made us the country we are today, they shaped our landscape and our towns to an extent and are as much part of Irish history and heritage as the megaliths (which co-incidentally were brought in by an "invading" group of people)


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    #52
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Grimes wrote: »
    Anyway I really think that the plantations made us the country we are today, they shaped our landscape and our towns to an extent and are as much part of Irish history and heritage as the megaliths (which co-incidentally were brought in by an "invading" group of people)

    Of course it made an impact on Ireland and is apart of Irish history - Much the same as the Black & Tans are a part of Irish history. That's not in dispute. But do you believe that we should celebrate the events of the Plantations - which created sectarianism in Ireland (which is still alive today as a result of it), created penal laws, moved farmers off their land and gave it to foreign planters? These are all well document facts.

    We should remember the plantations, but certainly not as a positive chapter in Irish history.


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    #53
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Of course it made an impact on Ireland and is apart of Irish history - Much the same as the Black & Tans are a part of Irish history. That's not in dispute. But do you believe that we should celebrate the events of the Plantations - which created sectarianism in Ireland (which is still alive today as a result of it), created penal laws, moved farmers off their land and gave it to foreign planters? These are all well document facts.

    We should remember the plantations, but certainly not as a positive chapter in Irish history.


    In your opinion mate.

    Other people might think differently.

    Don't go around with a closed mind pal.


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    #54
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    In your opinion mate.

    No - it is not my opinion. It is historical fact.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Other people might think differently.

    Think differently about what? That sectarianism is a direct result of the Plantations? That Penal Laws favoured protestants, and reduced Catholics to second class citizens? That native farmers were pushed off their land for foreign invaders? Which is it?

    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Don't go around with a closed mind pal.

    Where did I demonstrated a closed mind in this thread? By outlining historical facts? Instead of attacking my character - Let's debate. I'm more than happy to debate the issue with you.


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    #55
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    No problem, would the Ulster Unionist feel the same about the plantations as you do??

    Would they say that the weren't a good thing in the evolution of Irish History.??


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    #56
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    No problem, would the Ulster Unionist feel the same about the plantations as you do??

    Of course they wouldn't "feel" the same way I do. That doesn't change historical fact, does it? It doesn't change the reality that people were forced off their land and that laws were created which treated the native population as second class citizens. Do you feel that this should be celebrated?
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Would they say that the weren't a good thing in the evolution of Irish History.??

    No and what does it matter? It doesn't change historical fact that the Plantations were a dark chapter in Irish history. I don't believe the plantations were a good thing in the evolution in Irish history. They created sectarianism in Ireland, lead to the divide of a country which spawned a civil war directly because of it, and subsequently saw decades of violence in the 6 counties because of mass civil inequality for the catholics, which was a follow-on from the penal law mentality. So no - it wasn't a good thing. Ireland would have been a better place without it. Ireland would have evolved the same as every other country coming into the 20th century. Scandinavia was once a place of brutal monsters, but is now one of the most economically viable and beautiful places in the world. It didn't require plantations or the English language to succeed, and neither did Ireland.

    I'll await for you to answer my question. Don't bother me again until you're willing to do so.


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    #57
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    dlofnep wrote: »
    We should remember the plantations, but certainly not as a positive chapter in Irish history.

    History is neither positive or negative. It just happens and the result is the present. While the plantations did play a part in sectarian divisions there are numerous plantation towns all over the Republic that people who believe today to be "true Irish villages".


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    #58
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Grimes wrote: »
    History is neither positive or negative. It just happens and the result is the present. While the plantations did play a part in sectarian divisions there are numerous plantation towns all over the Republic that people who believe today to be "true Irish villages".

    History can be positive or negative. By that logic, Nazi Germany was neither positive or negative. Try spin that logic with the Jewish community and see if they swallow it as easily.

    The 26 counties is not affected today, because we don't have the same density of opposing-communities nor did Britain have the same success with Plantations. Ulster was most affected by the Plantations because it was the most penetrated Plantation. This is very well documented.


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    #59
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Of course they wouldn't "feel" the same way I do. That doesn't change historical fact, does it? It doesn't change the reality that people were forced off their land and that laws were created which treated the native population as second class citizens. Do you feel that this should be celebrated?



    No and what does it matter? It doesn't change historical fact that the Plantations were a dark chapter in Irish history. I don't believe the plantations were a good thing in the evolution in Irish history. They created sectarianism in Ireland, lead to the divide of a country which spawned a civil war directly because of it, and subsequently saw decades of violence in the 6 counties because of mass civil inequality for the catholics, which was a follow-on from the penal law mentality. So no - it wasn't a good thing. Ireland would have been a better place without it. Ireland would have evolved the same as every other country coming into the 20th century. Scandinavia was once a place of brutal monsters, but is now one of the most economically viable and beautiful places in the world. It didn't require plantations or the English language to succeed, and neither did Ireland.

    I'll await for you to answer my question. Don't bother me again until you're willing to do so.


    Others living in NI might feel it is worthy of being remembered.

    What I personally believe is not the point, history happened, and we are where we are.
    In your opinion it wasn't a good thing but others might differ.;)


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    #60
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I told you not to bother me until you answer my question. You can't answer it, because it would actually involve agreeing with me, or taking an inaccurate and unpopular revisionist stance on history.


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    #61
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Heh heh you just blew yourself out of the water there buddy.;)


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