Man in Red Van - Roadworks Limerick to Shannon

wylo · 15-09-2009 9:48pm

3 tends to be ok, sometimes no que whatsoever, my blood still boils at this whole situation. Its a real catch 22, the people in the right lane are doing nothing wrong legally only abusing the fact that people are decent enough to que in the left lane. Thanks to all truck drivers and van drivers etc for blocking the right lane, its very difficult to do it with a car but ive seen it done once or twice, you have to be willing to ignore the flashes and beeps.

Twin-go · 16-09-2009 11:46am

You may feel that overtaking the cars in the left lane in the open right overtaking lane is ignorant (intitled to your opinion) but, blocking the overtaking lane in this manor is dangerous, illegal and ignorent.

To thoes that say people in the right hand lane cause the build up in the left lane, if 50% of people used the right lane and 50% used the left lane and people merged like a zipper, one left, one right, one left, one right everybody would get through with minimun delays.

I for one am not going to stop using the open right lane and merge when it is safe to do so. I am going to always leave 1 car merge in front of me. If people in the left lane drove at a speed that allowed a car to merge in front with out stopping themselves traffic would move smoothly.

TestTransmission · 16-09-2009 12:43pm

Twin-go wrote: »

You may feel that overtaking the cars in the left lane in the open right overtaking lane is ignorant (intitled to your opinion) but, blocking the overtaking lane in this manor is dangerous, illegal and ignorent.

To thoes that say people in the right hand lane cause the build up in the left lane, if 50% of people used the right lane and 50% used the left lane and people merged like a zipper, one left, one right, one left, one right everybody would get through with minimun delays.

I for one am not going to stop using the open right lane and merge when it is safe to do so. I am going to always leave 1 car merge in front of me. If people in the left lane drove at a speed that allowed a car to merge in front with out stopping themselves traffic would move smoothly.

People unfortunately dont know what merge means,I call it ignorance

wylo · 16-09-2009 4:33pm

Twin-go wrote: »

You may feel that overtaking the cars in the left lane in the open right overtaking lane is ignorant (intitled to your opinion) but, blocking the overtaking lane in this manor is dangerous, illegal and ignorent.

To thoes that say people in the right hand lane cause the build up in the left lane, if 50% of people used the right lane and 50% used the left lane and people merged like a zipper, one left, one right, one left, one right everybody would get through with minimun delays.

I for one am not going to stop using the open right lane and merge when it is safe to do so. I am going to always leave 1 car merge in front of me. If people in the left lane drove at a speed that allowed a car to merge in front with out stopping themselves traffic would move smoothly.

fair enough but unfortunately people arent splitting 50/50, theyre all queing in the left, if everyone moved to the left while traffic was still moving instead of one or 2 zipping past the que then there wouldnt be a problem.

I still stand by the fact that people in the right lane are taking advantage of people in the left, but ill admit I sometimes wonder whos the bigger fool, the people who are perfectly entitled to go in the right or the people queing in the left.

I disagree that its "dangerous" or "ignorant" that trucks hold up traffic in the right lane. Its not like people can overtake them causing a crash. Theres no danger in it whatsoever. And its not ignorant , there simply trying to make the speed of the que the same for everyone.

Berty · 16-09-2009 5:03pm

wylo wrote: »

I disagree that its "dangerous" or "ignorant" that trucks hold up traffic in the right lane. Its not like people can overtake them causing a crash. Theres no danger in it whatsoever. And its not ignorant , there simply trying to make the speed of the que the same for everyone.

How about

"Its not their job to police the roads". They may be guilt of the law which states "....................... failure to make progress"

Using the N20 Motorway as an example because the N18 will soon be the same status.

From the ROTR

You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

wylo · 16-09-2009 5:30pm

Berty, I dont like getting into the rules, mainly because there is nothing in the rules of the road about a particular situation like this.
The other reason is that the main points being made here is that if everyone moved to the left lane which is the one that is NOT closing ahead then there would be smooth flow of traffic.
Its more about courtesy were dealing with here.

However, if you really wanna go down that road (no pun intended ),I will

You may use the outer lane of a two-lane or three-lane dual carriageway only:

for overtaking, and
when intending to turn right a short distance ahead.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/juntions-and-dual-carriageways.html

Seeing as your lane is closing 800 metres ahead you really have no reason to overtake only to skip the que thats waiting to get into the left lane(which is their lane btw).
And you certainly arent turning right!!

All the argueing isnt gonna make a difference, People in the right are gonna continue to do what their doing just as the trucks/vans that slow it down will continue to do so.
Ive given up on it tbh.

ligind · 17-09-2009 1:45pm

I believe traffic would flow better if people got into one queue further back from road works, on days when someone has blocked the overtaking lane this has been the case.

Also no matter how well mannered the merging is it does slow things, if people got into position when you see the road works sign it would be better and safer for all concerned.

If you feel you are entitled to use the overtaking lane then do so , I consider it rude and I am equally entitled not to let you merge back in.

What gets me is drivers who use the overtaking lane and wait until they are right at the cones before attempting to merge, and merge is not really the word they just put on the indicator(sometimes) and then attempt to bully their way in to the slow lane.

black & white · 17-09-2009 2:40pm

ligind wrote: »

What gets me is drivers who use the overtaking lane and wait until they are right at the cones before attempting to merge, and merge is not really the word they just put on the indicator(sometimes) and then attempt to bully their way in to the slow lane.

Exactly as a White Garda van (a largish Fiat) did on Monday evening at about 4.30pm. drove up, no indicators but just forced his way in........

Twin-go · 17-09-2009 2:46pm

wylo wrote: »

Berty, I dont like getting into the rules, mainly because there is nothing in the rules of the road about a particular situation like this.
The other reason is that the main points being made here is that if everyone moved to the left lane which is the one that is NOT closing ahead then there would be smooth flow of traffic.
Its more about courtesy were dealing with here.

However, if you really wanna go down that road (no pun intended ),I will

You may use the outer lane of a two-lane or three-lane dual carriageway only:

for overtaking, and

when intending to turn right a short distance ahead.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/juntions-and-dual-carriageways.html

Seeing as your lane is closing 800 metres ahead you really have no reason to overtake only to skip the que thats waiting to get into the left lane(which is their lane btw).
And you certainly arent turning right!!

All the argueing isnt gonna make a difference, People in the right are gonna continue to do what their doing just as the trucks/vans that slow it down will continue to do so.
Ive given up on it tbh.

I do not see a sign in the left lane saying "Please Q Here". I use the right lane to Overtake slower moving cars in the left lane. 800m is not far short of a km I think thats plenty of space/time to perform an overtaking manuver.
Vans/Trucks/Cars should NOT be in the right lane if they are not overtaking.

wylo · 17-09-2009 3:46pm

800m is not far short of a km I think thats plenty of space/time to perform an overtaking manuver.

Its also plenty of space/time to prepare to move into the left lane seeing as the right lane is closing.
For me personally its down courtesy for the que. Its been proven on a daily basis that when every moves into the left lane earlier the traffic flows alot smoother.

When is all this going to end anyway does anyone know?

zuroph · 17-09-2009 3:57pm

Twin-go wrote: »

I do not see a sign in the left lane saying "Please Q Here". I use the right lane to Overtake slower moving cars in the left lane. 800m is not far short of a km I think thats plenty of space/time to perform an overtaking manuver.
Vans/Trucks/Cars should NOT be in the right lane if they are not overtaking.

legally, the cars should not be overtaking since they know the way isnt clear for them to pull back in. It is the onus of the overtaking person to ensure the way is clear, and that the space exists for them to pull back in. Since there is a queue, there is no space, so they should not be overtaking. bypassing the traffic in the overtaking lane is illegal.

Twin-go · 17-09-2009 4:56pm

zuroph wrote: »

legally, the cars should not be overtaking since they know the way isnt clear for them to pull back in. It is the onus of the overtaking person to ensure the way is clear, and that the space exists for them to pull back in. Since there is a queue, there is no space, so they should not be overtaking. bypassing the traffic in the overtaking lane is illegal.

I don't see any get in lane signs. Cars are supposed to filter in before the lane closes. If everybody left space for one car to fit in there would be no extra delays. Also a point of note: It is often the traffic lights and the crossing point halfway through the roadworks that cause the traffic to stop.

Berty · 17-09-2009 5:06pm

I gave this example before and all the left lane people dismissed it as a terrible example.

Take the Dock Road outbound. Should people all sit in the left lane even though there is a right lane?

Neither of them are slow of fast lanes or overtaking lanes for that matter. They are just lanes.

The right lane has to merge with the left lane at the end. There is no big problem here so why is there a problem allowing people to merge on the Dual Carraigeways?

zuroph · 17-09-2009 5:43pm

Twin-go wrote: »

I don't see any get in lane signs. Cars are supposed to filter in before the lane closes. If everybody left space for one car to fit in there would be no extra delays. Also a point of note: It is often the traffic lights and the crossing point halfway through the roadworks that cause the traffic to stop.

Its an overtaking lane, you're only meant to be out there to overtake. If you cant overtake (including pulling back in), you're not meant to go out there.

zuroph · 17-09-2009 5:44pm

Berty wrote: »

I gave this example before and all the left lane people dismissed it as a terrible example.

Take the Dock Road outbound. Should people all sit in the left lane even though there is a right lane?

Neither of them are slow of fast lanes or overtaking lanes for that matter. They are just lanes.

The right lane has to merge with the left lane at the end. There is no big problem here so why is there a problem allowing people to merge on the Dual Carraigeways?

Because the lane on a dual carriageway IS an overtaking lane.

as an aside, the traffic on the dock road hardly flows smoothly either, I dont see what you're trying to prove with mentioning it? Its a completely different situation, and it doesnt work well..

TestTransmission · 17-09-2009 5:52pm

zuroph wrote: »

Because the lane on a dual carriageway IS an overtaking lane.

as an aside, the traffic on the dock road hardly flows smoothly either, I dont see what you're trying to prove with mentioning it? Its a completely different situation, and it doesnt work well..

Works perfectly for me

Clare_Guy · 17-09-2009 5:56pm

jackncoke wrote: »

Works perfectly for me

me too...

Clare_Guy · 17-09-2009 5:58pm

black & white wrote: »

Exactly as a White Garda van (a largish Fiat) did on Monday evening at about 4.30pm. drove up, no indicators but just forced his way in........

I was in front of it

I used my indicators though :cool:

ligind · 18-09-2009 11:12am

There are plenty of road signs indicating that the overtaking lane is closed ahead. Obviously to some people this means accelarate and wait until the last possible moment to merge(barge) back in.

I have no problem with anyone using the the overtaking lane but you do not have a divine right to merge back into the slow lane unless someone allows you space to do so, there is no onus on the folk in the slow lane to let you in.

You can only overtake when it is safe to do so i.e. there must be sufficient space in front of the car that you are overtaking and if there is not sufficient space you must wait.

LB6 · 18-09-2009 12:04pm

"there is no onus on the folk in the slow lane to let you in"

I quite agree with you there - but you get the HGV's and busses and they just barge their way in - knowing that they'd do more damage to you than you'd do to them if you didn't let them in. - Pushy *******'s! - sorry - should have stuck this on the ranting page!

Clare_Guy · 18-09-2009 1:35pm

Apparently all the people on this thread claiming that the traffic moves better if everybody stays in the left lane, are wrong

http://blogcritics.org/scitech/article/heavy-traffic-the-great-merge-debate/

The concept of delaying a merge when two lanes are funneled into one, as often happens during road repair work, caught on with traffic engineers after studies showed that traffic flow speeded up as much 15 percent over the old “merge early and politely” philosophy. The driver you shake your fist at while he speeds by in the lane to be closed is actually making your trip shorter. What happens is that all that early merging creates an underused lane — everybody crammed into one lane while there are still two useable ones. Merging when necessary, in zipper fashion, is the better way to go...

Berty · 18-09-2009 1:42pm

@Clare_Guy.

The Zipper effect will not work in Ireland as everybody thinks everybody else is out to get one over on them.

Clare_Guy · 18-09-2009 1:46pm

Berty wrote: »

@Clare_Guy.

The Zipper effect will not work in Ireland as everybody thinks everybody else is out to get one over on them.

Hi Berty, the self-appointed voice of all of the drivers in ireland...

Berty · 18-09-2009 1:51pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

Hi Berty, the self-appointed voice of all of the drivers in ireland...

I really dont know how to take that comment.

Clare_Guy · 18-09-2009 1:56pm

Berty wrote: »

The Zipper effect will not work in Ireland as everybody thinks everybody else is out to get one over on them.

The merge-in-turn (zipper) rule has been adopted in the Highway Code. I'd say it's only a matter of time before it's adopted to the Rules of the Road so I'd advise the drivers of the left lane to start accepting the concept.

Road works
Rule 288

where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn (see Rule 134)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069864

Multi-lane carriageways (133-143)Lane discipline
Rule 134
You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308

Clare_Guy · 18-09-2009 2:01pm

This page has a good gif showing how the concept works...

http://trafficwaves.org/seatraf.html

Berty · 18-09-2009 2:09pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

This page has a good gif showing how the concept works...

http://trafficwaves.org/seatraf.html

* Maintain a large space ahead of your car.
* Encourage one, two even three cars to merge ahead of you.
* If traffic slows to a complete stop, KEEP TWO CAR-LENGTHS OF SPACE OPEN AHEAD OF YOU.
* Never "punish" merging drivers by closing your gap.
* Other suggestions

It was all sounds so good until I read the first line. Nobody will ever leave a large space ahead of time for fear somebody will try to get in front of them.

I refer to a few pages back where I mentioned the guy on the N18 who left enough space to fit two coachs but when I pulled in he tried to rear end my car whilst holding his hand on the horn of the jeep and giving me the finger.

In practice........................

Clare_Guy · 18-09-2009 2:17pm

Berty wrote: »

It was all sounds so good until I read the first line. Nobody will ever leave a large space ahead of time for fear somebody will try to get in front of them.

I refer to a few pages back where I mentioned the guy on the N18 who left enough space to fit two coachs but when I pulled in he tried to rear end my car whilst holding his hand on the horn of the jeep and giving me the finger.

In practice........................

So you're just going to give up on it because some idiot beeped his horn and gave you the finger? In my experience, the best reaction to such behaviour is to relax, smile and wave at the offender.

The merge-in-turn model is the most efficient method, it's been proven in tests.

TestTransmission · 18-09-2009 3:06pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

So you're just going to give up on it because some idiot beeped his horn and gave you the finger? In my experience, the best reaction to such behaviour is to relax, smile and wave at the offender.

The merge-in-turn model is the most efficient method, it's been proven in tests.

Tis a great theory,but unfortunately the majority of people here still prefer to queue and stop anyone from merging

ligind · 18-09-2009 4:55pm

Its not really merging in turn when you jump a queue of maybe 200 cars and then barge accross. From the second day of the road works I stopped allowing a gap in front of my car because a stream of traffic from the overtaking lane jumped in ahead of me even when there was no room.

Merge in turn may be more effecient but its not the practice so still insisting in using the overtaking lane to "overtake" the queue and then trying to merge at the last possible moment slows the traffic flow down, the folk that do that cant seriously be saying they are doing it to make things more effecient.

Man in Red Van - Roadworks Limerick to Shannon

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