Liam Carroll Lives

amacca

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Join the party that will actually take the option of locking down whatever NAMA has done and refusing to honour NAMA agreements (see sig)?

In the immortal words of the Sultans of Ping FC

"I like your manifesto, lets put it to the testo"


I doubt you would gain access to the type of power required to do the above in time. Surely there is a time limit...were you expecting to gain office before the legislation is passed or thinking of scrapping the whole thing after its up and running? Whats your timeframe?

Amhran Nua

amacca wrote: »

I doubt you would gain access to the type of power required to do the above in time. Surely there is a time limit...were you expecting to gain office before the legislation is passed or thinking of scrapping the whole thing after its up and running? Whats your timeframe?

Well Lenihan and co look intent on stealing me jumpa, so thats one question answered, as for the rest, its highly unlikely that there will be any change of government before NAMA is passed, so we're working on damage control policies at the moment. As for the timeframe, the more people register, the faster we'll get there.

Seriously. Do it.

amacca

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Well Lenihan and co look intent on stealing me jumpa

Well kudos for the above response at any rate, I love it.

What specifically does this damage control consist of.

I can read most of your policies from the website (some of the specifics Im not sure I agree with) but I'm not sure there's detail on the specifics of putting NAMA in lockdown after its passed. Perhaps I haven't dug deeply enough, maybe you could enlighten me?

Amhran Nua

amacca wrote: »

I can read most of your policies from the website (some of the specifics Im not sure I agree with) but I'm not sure there's detail on the specifics of putting NAMA in lockdown after its passed. Perhaps I haven't dug deeply enough, maybe you could enlighten me?

The current thinking is instant nationalisation and hence repatriation of any capitalisation that the banks have enjoyed, and then proceeding with our current plan, which is similar to that laid out by McWilliams a week or so ago with a few twists in there. Essentially the focus is on maintaining deposits, commercial and retail, as these are the real heart of the economy, and letting shareholders (already wiped out) and bondholders (big boy investors) take the hit.

Sponge Bob

This Zombie is back in the Supreme Court again today. In legal terms they have a wooden stake and a silver stake and a scrawny looking young wan called Buffy ready to deal with it .

A Dub in Glasgo

Reserved judgement, they really are going to wait until his group get NAMA

bangersandmash

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Reserved judgement, they really are going to wait until his group get NAMA

The news is conveniently buried below the Lisbon stories, along with John O'Donoghue and the Red Cow lamas.

andrewdeerpark

Agree with last 2 posts. Did we expect anything else and from reading today's independent if he were to loose he is going to appeal again. This man has a new way of playing the system, stay in court until you get a result you want. What a joke!

He has no problem getting a flat close by for the duration plenty of his shoebox digs lying idle. Where is our political opposition currently?

amacca

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Agree with last 2 posts. Did we expect anything else and from reading today's independent if he were to loose he is going to appeal again. This man has a new way of playing the system, stay in court until you get a result you want. What a joke!

He has no problem getting a flat close by for the duration plenty of his shoebox digs lying idle. Where is our political opposition currently?

I just cant believe this is happening. I know why its happening but I now know literally what it is to be dumbfounded.

Is it too much to hope that once Lisbon is over and the f#cking llamas are safely back in their enclosure the media will focus on this again and it wont be too late for something/anything to be attempted to change the situation?

dresden8

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Where is our political opposition currently?

They're out getting Cowen the credit for Lisbon.

bauderline

I'll be honest and thought there was no chance he could pull this off. Now it appears it's all over bar the fat lady....

This sucks... this REALLY sucks....

AlekSmart

I'll be honest and thought there was no chance he could pull this off. Now it appears it's all over bar the fat lady....

Bauderline,lets be clear that IF this Republic was an ACTUAL democracy presided over by a Political Establishment possessed of ACTUAL ability then we (The People) would not be staring this incredible situation in the face.

In decades to come,probably long after our demise,there will be a reckoning for all of this.

I would be confident that the current Zoe case will become the Textbook example of how a major developer,aided and abetted by a large and expensive opportunistic Legal Team could initially frustrate and finally render powerless an entire Higher Courts system which had existed for centuries to the benefit of Society at large.

Instead we now stare glumly at a daily dose of ever less relevant rubbish brought forward to buy time until the Zoe Group and it`s "connections" can be safely taken under the Taxpayers wing and therefore out of immediate danger...Hoo-Rah !!

amacca

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would be confident that the current Zoe case will become the Textbook example of how a major developer,aided and abetted by a large and expensive opportunistic Legal Team could initially frustrate and finally render powerless an entire Higher Courts system which had existed for centuries to the benefit of Society at large.

Instead we now stare glumly at a daily dose of ever less relevant rubbish brought forward to buy time until the Zoe Group and it`s "connections" can be safely taken under the Taxpayers wing and therefore out of immediate danger...Hoo-Rah !!

Certainly looks that way at the moment...disgusting:(

SkepticOne

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

He has no problem getting a flat close by for the duration plenty of his shoebox digs lying idle.

Though for him that would be like sleeping rough.

AlekSmart

Though for him that would be like sleeping rough.

Lads,lads,lads...will yiz whisht up about poor oul Liam.

This is all about the ZOE group of companies,and what a GROUP that is.

Once Liam Carrols initial application fell at the first Judicial inspection he became superflous.
Liam Carroll,irrespective of his physical or mental health has as much relevance to the current carry on as I do.

This has now moved on to far far more savvy,sonnected and (much) younger power brokers.
Initially these lads (and lasses) were content to gather under the Zoe umbrella and watch their savvy connected investments produce fruit.

However,we now know that the entire Zoe Group was little more than a papier mache collection of constructions which were suddenly exposed to a tropical storm reducing it to a soggy mess.

Sadly for the Plain People,the strength of these "Connections" has enabled them to come up with a plan to mould the sodden paper into new technology building blocks and flog them off again !! :eek:

MrMicra

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I didn't say that. I merely pointed out that others have to shoulder a portion of the blame. Also, I endeavoured to point out that attributing blame is retarded when you're still trying to fix things.

I don't understand why attributing blame is retarded when you're still trying to fix things. please explain.

andrewdeerpark

Workers fear 'disaster' if Zoe group is liquidated

A crock of S**t story from Saturdays independent.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/workers-fear-disaster-if-zoe-group-is-liquidated-1903357.html

No mention of the NAMA disaster that we will all have to pay, bailing out such a fantasy building company: Zoe. Let this company be destroyed by market forces other entrepreneurs (and more luck to them) will pick up the pieces and those workers and suppliers (if they are any good), that is the whole point of a market economy. Leaving this fatally wounded animal limp into NAMA is a bad start to a bad plan that as other posters have said we will be paying for over 2 generations. Liquidation is like a fire on the savanna it gets rid of the dead wood and scrub and green shoots of market forces will grow from that fire; JUST LET IT HAPPEN and ruin these well connected rich elite. Also if Dunne, Fleming, Crosby, O’Callaghan, McNamara are in a similar situation they should be ruined aswell; I have no vendetta against Liam Carroll.

This company should not live like Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie company employing 800 people doing nothing. These are people I want to see on the dole with the company directors pursued for all debts and if they cannot pay, take their house off them and put them living in a caravan.

Next week is a major turning point in this countries future if Zoe survives then the crookery has come full circle through all pillars of our establishment; the judiciary being the final pillar.

Chief Justices hope you browse Boards.ie

AlekSmart

Next week is a major turning point in this countries future if Zoe survives then the crookery has come full circle through all pillars of our establishment; the judiciary being the final pillar.

Chief Justices hope you browse Boards.ie

Oyez Oyez Oyez !!!

I second the above and sadly it remains the least commented upon item involved in this.

Zoe,NAMA,Fianna Fáil,the Depression etc etc...all pale into insignificance beside the collapse of an organized society and ALL of its trappings.

That is EXACTLY whats on the cards if the Zoe`s get their creaking oul jalopy across the NAMA starting line.

If this Supreme Court panel now decides to set aside 3 of the clearest most succinct judgements EVER handed down in an open Irish Higher Court then the floodgates are wedged fully open for an avalanche of similar sewage to flow along the aisles.

I actually believe that we (the people) need to mobilize and offer OUR support to Judges Kelly and Clarke and those members of the Supreme Court who have had to wade through a mountain of financial evidence elequently described by Judge Clarke as

either presented in a very poor way or just plain wrong'.

The original High Court judgements are as far as I am concerned Fair and Equitable treatment for both the Zoe Group AND the Irish Citizen.

What has occurred since those judgements represents a new Low in Irish Legal Proffessional practice and reflects very poorly indeed on the state of play within the portals of the Kings Inn`s.

The Kelly and Clarke Judgements are as far as I am concerned the Line in the Sand beyond which we should not tread !!

AlekSmart

The three-judge court, led by Chief Justice John Murray, heard how Zoe's finance director, John Pope, had underestimated Mr Carroll's ill health and the stress he was under when the group first sought court protection.

The court heard how, at the time of the group's first Supreme Court appeal last August, Mr Carroll -- described as the "dominant force in the group" -- decided to withhold information from the court against the advice of his co-directors and his lawyers.

Valuations

The developer, later hospitalised and now under the care of a consultant, would not countenance the release of a business plan and property valuations to the court, a decision later described by High Court judge John Cooke as strategic, mistaken and deliberate but not malevolent

Its incredible but with each emerging tidbit this damn thing starts to reek even more....

We now appear to have the latest Supreme Court application being based upon John Pope`s lack of phsychological acumen rather than any deficiency in his Financial Accounting ability.....

So we are also now expected to believe that the current Bill Shipsey fronted band of Zoe`s were doing their best to convince Mr Carroll that he was`nt mad but because Liam was an alpha-male and they collectively were pussies,Liam got his way..??.....aw c`mon Bill pull the other one...it`s got a wig on it !!!!

However it`s Justice Cookes final witty riposte that caps it all....Twas strategic,mistaken AND deliberate,but not....malevolent.

Well there ye have it then.....The age old principle of "The reasonable actions of a reasonable man" are now replaced by a Hibernian notion of "Malevolence".

Is there a Judge Machiavelli on the Irish Bench yet?.....

bangersandmash

Looks like the Supreme Court have come down strongly on the side of ACC

The Supreme Court has ruled that companies controlled by developer Liam Carroll should not have been allowed go ahead with a second bid for court protection after their first attempt was rejected.

...

Chief Justice John Murray said the companies in their first examinership application had consciously and deliberately withheld from the court information which was available to them or could have been obtained by them.

He said that although no bad faith was involved, in the circumstances the second bid for examinership was an abuse of process and the administration of justice.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1006/carrolll.html

rfoll

As the building I live in is owned by Liam Carroll (and I pay rent directly into his (one of many I'm sure) bank account), could anyone tell me what implications does this have for renters?

SkepticOne

rfoll wrote: »

As the building I live in is owned by Liam Carroll (and I pay rent directly into his (one of many I'm sure) bank account), could anyone tell me what implications does this have for renters?

My guess is very little. The building will always be owned by someone and that someone will continue to want rents.

Sand

At last...a complete shambles of a court case finally comes to its long overdue end. Only question is has it been delayed and played out long enough to allow it to limp over the finishing line into NAMAs warm embrace?


Hopefully the assets will be pushed out into the market and well get a real idea of what the collateral on the NAMA loans is worth. The assumption that NAMA is overpaying by 7 Billion ( 54 billion for 47 current market value) places a lot of weight on the validity of the estimated 47 billion current market value. They could be worth far, far, far less. The impact of Zoe Groups assets on the market will tell us a fair bit.

I wouldnt be innocent enough to believe that the kleptocracy hasnt been scheming for the inevitability of the rejection of Zoes case...again.

andrewdeerpark

I have to say at least some faith has been restored in the legal system.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/its-over-carroll-loses-final-battle-to-save-an-empire-1905965.html

As a critic of all the legal merry go round Carroll was allowed in the first place its only right he has run out of road.

He wasted the courts time and was allowed an unprecedented 2nd Supreme Court bid. Some faith has been restored, in particular the acknowledgement that he should never have got a second Supreme Court sitting. Loose at the Supreme Court and that is the end of the line.

Wonder what the legal bill was for all this and if Anglo Irish are putting up the money? Senior counsel won’t be out of pocket anyway!

bauderline

ZOE GROUP[EOL]

My reading of it is that any of the company's that go into receivership cannot passed over to NAMA as bad loans... am I right ? Anyone know what the criteria is ?

Is there anyway the banks can now sit on this to get the loands tied into NAMA ?

Also it is very unlikely that you will see a firesale or asset dump, a lot of the assets are worth very little at the moment, so the term they are using is "drip feeding" properties onto the market... so don't go expecting to get a clear idea of true asset value anytime soon.