Will the Irish State collapse?

darkman2

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mind we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarchy. Spending 60 billion - taking in 30 - seems inevitable tbh and I don't know whether Irish people realise the potential armegeddon that is going to occur yet...

IvySlayer

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarcy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state?

Nope.

Sierra Oscar

No, it wont. The current government falling ≠ state collapsing.

K4t

Thanks for the lulz, OP.

And to answer your question, No.

zonEEE

No, if the country isnt sorted out in the next few years the eu will step in.

anonymous_joe

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mid we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarcy. Spending 60 billion - taking in 30 - seems inevitable tbh and I don't know whether Irish people realise the potential armegeddon that is going to occur yet...

The recession's ending in some countries.

Economic downturns and upturns tend to be cyclical, we went up loads, we're coming down a little, we will go up again.

rossie1977

darkman2 wrote: »

Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mid we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarcy.

yeah i see that, it will be worse than zimbabwe, ireland will become pass third world and become fourth world :pac:

ottostreet

I don't think it will collapse, but I think its going to get worse first. I finally know of a person who has lost their job due to Steven, and I can see the effects on the pub and club industry through my own work, and its continuing to go downhill. I've decided to leave as soon as I'm finished college for a year or two, and hopefully, when I come back, things will be on the upturn!

jape

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mid we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarcy. Spending 60 billion - taking in 30 - seems inevitable tbh and I don't know whether Irish people realise the potential armegeddon that is going to occur yet...

hahahahahaha

amacachi

The Irish State will collapse at some point, I'd be surprised to see any countries still around in their current forms in a few hundred years. But hey, I've got the OP on ignore so maybe there were some reasonable points raised. :P

ascanbe

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mid we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarcy. Spending 60 billion - taking in 30 - seems inevitable tbh and I don't know whether Irish people realise the potential armegeddon that is going to occur yet...

It could well collapse. Because of economic mismanagement; the idea that 'there is no such thing as society' as espoused by Thatcher, Reagan, etc. and wholeheartedly supported by Myers and his ilk.
I'm here at 3:48 am, no job to go to tomorrow, responding to this.
Thankfully i have no mortgage or family to support.
Those that do, i wish them the best.
Fake 'free marketeers' will probably flock to this thread in order to blame socialism, the public sector, blah, blah, blah.
Of course they're not truly for a free market; just a government than is in step with their craven, ill-thought out, ideology.
So here we are.
The aforementioned Mr. Myers is beyond contempt and, perhaps, redemption.
At this point, i don't care.

K4t

I can't drink water from the sink taps and the roads near my house are third world or worse. Surely it can't get even worse?

rossie1977

K4t wrote: »

I can't drink water from the sink taps and the roads near my house are third world or worse. Surely it can't get even worse?

it can, alot worse, i thought roads were bad in this country till i visited africa, i saw open sewers with water running down the street beside houses in morocco and the smell, unbearable

darkman2

amacachi wrote: »

I've got the OP on ignore

Why? How did I offend this boardsie - seems I have offended most at this stage - come on - why? I could be Kevin Myers you know;)



But im not - nice to see im controversial though which is what I aim to be...

And yes, you all don't realise yet how bad things are - you will soon...the country will go bankrupt.


I would like to point people to the fact we have a larger deficit then California and no one will lend to them anymore - the state is about to declare bankruptcy so I don't know what will happen to us!

An Fear Aniar

strongr wrote: »

No, if the country isnt sorted out in the next few years the eu will goosestep in.

Fixed if for ya.

.

Kev_ps3

Kevin Myres said the state will collapse on Newstalk, shocked:eek:

dunnomede?

it seems to me that myers is making a mountain out of a molehill. yes i know that a lot more are unemployed than in previous years. undoubtedly this is costing us a significant amount in social welfare payments etc but to think or even believe that it could land us in the sort of sh!t that third world countries are in is blowing things out of all proportion. yes things will probably get worse before they get better but to draw a comparison to countries where hundreds of thousands die of starvation is scare mongering and exageration of the highest order.

P.S. apparently i can post rationaly whilst drunk unless im so drunk that i've deluded mysef into beliving my own codswallop

P.P.S. disregard any typo's as mentioned previously i'm drunk

dunnomede?

oh wait its AH....
I for one would like to welcome our new third world overlords

stovelid

I, for one, cannot wait until I get to drive around the post-apocalyptic, dystopic landscape of South Dublin in a souped-up Peugeot with rocket-launchers.

I'm not too crazy having to rumble with Tina Turner though, but needs must.

goldenbrown

hopefully the greens with go ahead and insist on their shape on this hairy nama, FF will say no, and then we have a general election and choose as a society what each party offers as a solution to this galway tent property crisis,

right now...thank god for being in the euro...europe is our saving

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Why is that the moment Ireland gets into a bit of toruble, the EU is expected to ride in and save day, absolving the country from all sence of responsibility?

The moment it does, it'll be a case of "leave the money on the counter , there, and **** off, will you? We don't want your sort around here!"

ParkRunner

The Irish State won't collapse but the government surely will..unless there is still some sector of Irish society that thinks the government have done a good job over the past decade. Any takers?

Jenroche

I find it laughable that people will expect the EU to bail us out after we voted no to Lisbon. Last year we were still on the pig's back so we voted no and basically said "Fcuk off, we don't need you!" Now that times are hard we want the EU to sort out our problems. Wouldn't surprise me if we got the same response from them. Economic karma, folks. :rolleyes:

Jen ;->

leitrim lad

i bought a little row boat, mainly for fishing, but when i seen the recession coming, and the carry on of the banks and the wafflers we elected to the dail, i decided we were taking on too much water, so i bought a little boat,
just big enough for me the woman and the kids,

ha, ha ,biffo no space for you anymore, you slob,,,,,,,,,,

and as for kevin myres, dont get me started on that ,,,,

Riamfada

Ireland becoming a third world country?Personally I look forward to the inevitable flood of

"Alight Bud. Im buzzin' yeh on d'email cause me aulefella left me a million shackles. Turns out we had the same bleedin da! Anyway giz a go of ure bank account details and sort code so I can send ya da bills caus the gardai have me bank locked and Ill split the cash wit yeah ...reeet?"

sneem-man

Could the last person leaving,please turn off the lights...

almostnever

Would we have zombies?

irish_bob

stovelid wrote: »

I, for one, cannot wait until I get to drive around the post-apocalyptic, dystopic landscape of South Dublin in a souped-up Peugeot with rocket-launchers.

I'm not too crazy having to rumble with Tina Turner though, but needs must.

two men enter , one man leave , two men enter , one man leave

Pompey Magnus

Ah all we will have to do is send a letter to the Queen, apologise for thinking we could run this country by ourselves, and ask Britain very politely to come back whilst promising to be a good little colony in the future and to be be no more trouble.

Problem solved.

El Weirdo

ascanbe wrote: »

It could well collapse. Because of economic mismanagement; the idea that 'there is no such thing as society' as espoused by Thatcher, Reagan, etc. and wholeheartedly supported by Myers and his ilk.
I'm here at 3:48 am, no job to go to tomorrow, responding to this.
Thankfully i have no mortgage or family to support.
Those that do, i wish them the best.
Fake 'free marketeers' will probably flock to this thread in order to blame socialism, the public sector, blah, blah, blah.
Of course they're not truly for a free market; just a government than is in step with their craven, ill-thought out, ideology.
So here we are.
The aforementioned Mr. Myers is beyond contempt and, perhaps, redemption.
At this point, i don't care.

And to put the cherry on the cake, your clock is 10 mins slow...:(

Blackjack

Charco wrote: »

Ah all we will have to do is send a letter to the Queen, apologise for thinking we could run this country by ourselves, and ask Britain very politely to come back whilst promising to be a good little colony in the future and to be be no more trouble.

Problem solved.

this is indeed what Myers would have us do.

Seriously OP - Kevin Myers?. FFS.

Rebelheart

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Fixed if for ya.

Somebody's been reading too many eurosceptic and xenophobic British tabloids over there in London.

Mr.Obvious

I hope we don't come out of this reccession just yet. House prices need to fall an awful lot more before we can have some sort of decent standard of living once the economy starts growing again.

Rebelheart

Mr.Obvious wrote: »

I hope we don't come out of this reccession just yet. House prices need to fall an awful lot more before we can have some sort of decent standard of living once the economy starts growing again.

Couldn't agree more. Tried to say the same at 1.30 this morning but Boards crashed between 1.30 and 3.30 for some reason.

Kipperhell

I think there are a hell of a lot of other countries closer to collapse than we are and until or situation gets even close to them we are going to be fine for quite a while. We aren't even Iceland yet and they are still about

I lived through the 80s and I can tell you we are no where near the situation we were in then. There is world wide recession and it is beginning to ease if we end up the only country in recession then we will be in trouble.

Rebelheart

Kipperhell wrote: »

I lived through the 80s and I can tell you we are no where near the situation we were in then. There is world wide recession and it is beginning to ease if we end up the only country in recession then we will be in trouble.

An awful lot of people who lived through, and ran businesses in, the 80s' would disagree with you on at least the following two grounds:

1. We have had much farther to fall this time; success/happiness is relative and now people have an unprecedented boom to compare the present situation with. Ergo this is much, much worse in the view of very many businessmen.

2. In the 80s the US and rest of the EU were options; this time they have also been in recession so the option of emigration is closed for very many ordinary workers.

ejmaztec

stovelid wrote: »

I, for one, cannot wait until I get to drive around the post-apocalyptic, dystopic landscape of South Dublin in a souped-up Peugeot with rocket-launchers.

I'm not too crazy having to rumble with Tina Turner though, but needs must.

I think that we're talking unarmed donkey in reality, or a pushbike with no tyres (or a bell).:eek:

teddy_303

Maybe that's why a certain Fianna Fail member was recommending tax evasive off shore bank accounts. Real vision BCF has / had. So whats Kevin Meyers exit strategy? Or is he just scare mongering to help the government repress the revolting peasents? They are revolting, arent they? :mad::mad:

Riverpineapple

Our tax incentives don't make sense.

TheZohanS

Jenroche wrote: »

I find it laughable that people will expect the EU to bail us out after we voted no to Lisbon. Last year we were still on the pig's back so we voted no and basically said "Fcuk off, we don't need you!" Now that times are hard we want the EU to sort out our problems. Wouldn't surprise me if we got the same response from them. Economic karma, folks. :rolleyes:

Jen ;->

HA HA!

Thanks for the lolz!

Lisbon Treaty =/= EU

is_that_so

Kevin Myers as credible social commentator are not words that go together. Mr Myers has always had his own drum to bang and even at his best was nothing more than just clever and faintly amusing. I suspect that writing An Irishman's Diary gave him an ego as big as that other "intellectual giant" Fintan O'Toole and the belief that what he says matters. Since his move to eh greener pastures his output has got steadily worse as he succumbs to that disease of being a grumpy old git who used to be famous and once was even good.
This is also the silly season when real news is thin on the ground. RTE's second story yesterday was about the great granny and her progeny.

I suspect some posting here have no idea what a state collapse means. Even with the state of our economy at present we are nowhere near anything like that. Financially we are in a very bad way if look at the numbers but expressed as a percentage the situation is far less serious than some other countries. Italy for example has debt of over 100% of GDP, far worse than ours. Spain has nearly 18% unemployment and they're in as bad a situation as we are but they'll survive as we will.

Agamemnon

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. That's like saying you stepped in some very interesting dog shit.

nayorleck114

Kevin Myers!, Who is he to talk about the Irish? Did you hear what he said about the scottish?

" Scottish people are the most obese in Europe, in which regard they resemble the wretched Scottish statelet. Only a minority of Scottish people work for a living - and most of those who have jobs are employed by the state: 577,300. In other words, they are employed by the English to manage themselves. The rest of the Scots are on the dole or pensions, living in state-owned housing estates, sending their children to state-run schools, where the most likely form of personal enterprise they will ever encounter is their local heroin-dealer.!

also he said, “Africa is giving nothing to anyone – apart from AIDS”

Mrmoe

I'm not worried, I've got my tinfoil hat on.

Quint

darkman2 wrote: »

Very interesting discussion on Newstalk today with Kevin Myers. He said our State faces complete societal and political collapse. Hard to argue with tbh. Have you an exit strategy for the upcoming collapse? Ireland could end up literally third world with starvation and poverty for the majority. Are we facing this collapse into anarchy do you think? Are you worried about the immediate future that Ireland could be a failed state? Bare in mind we are talking Zimbabwe or Somalia here - a collapse into lawlessness and anarchy. Spending 60 billion - taking in 30 - seems inevitable tbh and I don't know whether Irish people realise the potential armegeddon that is going to occur yet...

Ireland will turn into Zimbabwe or Somalia? Seriously, what are you smoking?

SpodoKamodo

Glad to see Kevin is alright. Hadn't heard any inane ramblings from him for a while..

JupiterKid

Kevin Myers is a crusty old bitter right wing reactionary. He has a very inflated sense of self importance. He's also a bigot of the highest order. Look at his pieces on immigrants and gay people.

That said, Ireland in really deep sh*t economically and our property crash will probably be the worst the world has ever seen - trumping Japan's and Finland's.

The economic recovery of the rest of the world will happen over the next few years and Ireland will be left well behind - to sink further and further in the mire. Think 30% unemployment by 2013 or thereabouts and mass repossession of homes. Ireland will go into history and economics textbooks as the ultimate bubble economy and a warning/lesson to other countries.

There will need to be a radical rethink about our grossly uncompetitive economy and how it can contribute to the global economy or this country is literally going nowhere.

Anyone who loves this country should never vote FF ever again.

Rebelheart

So, does anybody here actually like poor Caoimhín?

irish_bob

JupiterKid wrote: »

Kevin Myers is a crusty old bitter right wing reactionary. He has a very inflated sense of self importance. He's also a bigot of the highest order. Look at his pieces on immigrants and gay people.

That said, Ireland in really deep sh*t economically and our property crash will probably be the worst the world has ever seen - trumping Japan's and Finland's.

The economic recovery of the rest of the world will happen over the next few years and Ireland will be left well behind - to sink further and further in the mire. Think 30% unemployment by 2013 or thereabouts and mass repossession of homes. Ireland will go into history and economics textbooks as the ultimate bubble economy and a warning/lesson to other countries.

There will need to be a radical rethink about our grossly uncompetitive economy and how it can contribute to the global economy or this country is literally going nowhere.

Anyone who loves this country should never vote FF ever again.

remind me what he said that was homophobic , as for his views on immigration , what has he said other than ireland has seen an influx of immigration in the past ten years that is comparable to the usa having a figure of 30 million enter thier country in the same period , what is biggoted about this comment

Rebelheart

To think that there are people all across the country working hard and Myarse gets paid - and relatively handsomely at that - for his raiméis.

At least he has been thrown out of The Irish Times and is now resting in his more natural home (after the Daily Telegraph), Sir A. J. F. O'Reilly's Independent Newspapers. How apt.

Purple Gorilla

darkman2 wrote: »

Why? How did I offend this boardsie - seems I have offended most at this stage - come on - why? I could be Kevin Myers you know;)



But im not - nice to see im controversial though which is what I aim to be...

And yes, you all don't realise yet how bad things are - you will soon...the country will go bankrupt.


I would like to point people to the fact we have a larger deficit then California and no one will lend to them anymore - the state is about to declare bankruptcy so I don't know what will happen to us!

Sorry, forgot to ask. Where did you get your degree in economics from? I'll post the following article, from Peter Sutherland. He's a man with a wealth of experience and knowledge. He was an EU Commissioner, Director General of the WTO and is now the Chairman of BP and Goldman Sachs International. If there's a person who knows what he's talking about, I'd put my money on him.

Writing in the Financial Times on Sunday, 12 April 2009, former EU Commissioner and current Chairman of BP and Goldman Sachs, Peter Sutherland, highlights that evident wage flexibility and resilient exports mean that Ireland is well placed for economic recovery.
"In recent weeks there has been a great deal of commentary about the Irish economy and the challenges that it faces. Understandably, much of it has focused on the grim details of Ireland's budget deficit that, following last week’s supplementary budget, is forecast to rise to 10.75 per cent of gross domestic product this year. A deficit that size would likely be the largest in the eurozone although, on Goldman Sachs forecasts, it will be slightly less than that of the UK.

The reasons for the deficit are well known. Ireland’s growth and tax revenues, from about 2003, became overly dependent on housing. At the peak of the housing bubble in 2007, residential investment accounted for 13 per cent of Irish GDP (against 6 per cent in the UK) and capital gains tax and stamp duty accounted for 13 per cent of Irish tax revenues (against 4 per cent in the UK). So, when the property bubble burst, the economy slowed sharply and tax revenues plummeted. The problems of the Irish banks are related to this issue too (their exposure to US mortgage-backed securities and other non-domestic toxic assets is minimal).
While the housing slowdown and the associated budget deficit has created a major challenge, to focus exclusively on housing-related problems provides a distorted picture of the under*lying health of the Irish economy. The economy has been a phenomenon since the late 1980s. From a relatively poor country on Europe’s periphery, Ireland has risen to become one of the richest economies in the world in 20 years. Even after an anticipated 8 per cent fall this year, its GDP per capita, in terms of purchasing power, will remain significantly higher than that of the UK or Germany. And, while unemployment has risen, there are still 80 per cent more jobs in Ireland today than 15 years ago. Much of its infrastructure has been transformed during this period.

During the housing investment boom, Ireland’s current account balance moved from a long-term surplus into deficit. That deficit peaked at 5 per cent of GDP in 2007, comparable to the UK and US at the peak (6 per cent and 4 per cent, respectively), and much less than economies such as Spain (10 per cent) and Greece (14 per cent). Since 2007, Ireland’s current account position has been rising and, at the current trajectory, it should return to surplus by the year end. To the extent that Irish public sector borrowing has been rising, this is being more than offset by a rise in private sector saving.

The cause of these favourable statistics is export-led growth, led by inward investment in industries such as information technology, pharmaceuticals and private sector services. The fact that Ireland’s economic success has been driven by exports in these areas has resulted in a far stronger basic Irish economy than the one that existed in the 1980s. Because of the nature of these exports the drop in exports anticipated for this year, as a result of recession, is estimated to be only 5.9 per cent. The corresponding Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development figure for Germany is 16.5 per cent, France 11.4 per cent and Great Britain 9.8 per cent. Some others are considerably worse, such as Japan, forecast at 26.4 per cent.
Another issue on which there has been much comment is the alleged disadvantage to Ireland of being in the eurozone. In reality, Ireland may have been saved by its membership from the possibility of a run on its currency – however unwarranted such a run would have been. The UK, meanwhile, has seen its currency fall by 30 per cent against the euro and this is likely to bring short-run benefits. This option is not, of course, available to Ireland; flexibility has had to come instead from an adjustment in real wages. But – and this is the most important positive for Ireland’s long-term prospects – there is clear evidence that it is dealing with the competitiveness issue in a sustainable manner and one I believe to be unprecedented in the OECD area.

The latest data suggest there has already been an 8 per cent drop in private sector wages and salaries and, via the “pension levy”, there has also been in effect a 7-8 per cent fall in public sector pay. It is hard to imagine wages in other economies displaying such flexibility. If these figures are maintained or even supplemented, the Irish economy should emerge from the recession in a highly competitive position. Meanwhile, the minister of finance has given an undertaking to maintain Ireland’s low corporation tax rate of 12.5 per cent.

It can be argued that the budget last week will have deflationary effects, particularly in regard to tax increases, but the alternative might have been a major funding crisis. It has to be recognised that Ireland has a very open economy. Fiscal easing, even if it were possible, is less beneficial to Ireland and would be more costly in terms of driving up the cost of borrowing.
While I do not want to trivialise the difficulties that Ireland faces, its problems are acute in nature rather than chronic. Once Ireland overcomes this short-term panic – and I believe that last week’s budget, whatever its alleged deficiencies, was a vital step in this process – the basic strengths of the Irish economy remain formidable. If the Irish people continue to react constructively to the harsh measures necessary, Ireland will be in a very strong position to benefit from the eventual global recovery and its healthy demographic profile will greatly help in this

Of course though you'll probably brush all of what he said off and continue to believe the Irish State will collapse. I mean obviously you know more about economics than the Chairman of 2 of the biggest companies in the world