Male Stereotype, pressures associated with it and consequences

Will

Time for a bit of banter

The pressures of being a man, there are many. What always confused me was, what is it to be man? Is it to walk around bare chested with hammer in hand, grunting and working away fixing something?

I remember being a young kid in primary school, falling pretty badly and tearing up my leg. The pain back then was immense and I wanted to cry. There was this little voice in the back of my mind though saying "don't cry", so even at that young age I felt the pressure. If I had cried the lads in my class woulda ruined me.

Feelings and emotions seem to be frowned upon, and expressing them seems to be classed as "girly" but we're only human.

So my questions really are;

What is it to be a man?
How would you define a male stereotype and how do you fit the mold?

Otis Driftwood

I love football and boxing.I love my pints and I love steak.Im can find it very difficult to verbalise my feelings,particularly towards the opposite sex.

All classic male stereotypes.

IMO there are alot of sections of society that still view and expect men to fill the hunter/gatherer role.This has lessoned to a certain extent in the last 15 to 20 years what with there being more and more successful business women in the world but I still believe the onus is on the man,for the most part,to be the bread winner/provider/protector etc.

People can dress it up and talk about equality but this is still the case.I know some very intelligent and educated females that have already decided that once they hit a certain age they want to be at home with a few nippers running around.Thats fair enough,I have nothing against that at all,but if a few of my small circle of friends think like this,logic would point that there are alot of females that do aswell.

If I ever have kids,I want to be able to provide a very good standard of living for them and this of course isnt cheap.I do find it a little daunting when I think about it,especially given the fact Im currently unemployed.Of course I may never get married or have kids,but it is something that creeps into my head now and again,especially since I left my 20s.

CDfm

The pressures are there but you have to buy into them and increasingly people don't.

DIY - I can't do it. My girlfriend can and she is better than me at it. I am delighted she is.

I am divorced with two teenage kids -so I have needed to have the skills of a single parent and know all the girly stuff for a teenage daughter too. So thats a plus. Finding out about cleansers and moisturoisers made me get stuff for myself too.

Forget the stereotypes just enjoy it.

r3nu4l

I try but sometimes fail to ignore the pressures! Like CDfm, when it comes to DIY, I'm a failure! Sure I can wire a plug and I can wield a paintbrush, drill and spanner but ask me to fix new shelves to a wall or replace a door and I'm lost! My wifes Dad built his own house and was a carpenter before he got ill so I guess I feel a double pressure and I do feel bad when she phones him to ask for advice on something relatively simple I have a good DIY book and I do try but to be honest, I fail and that's something I want to change by way of a couple of night courses!

I'm very successful in my job and a Director of my department but I intend moving back to Ireland in the next couple of years and because it's a specialised industry, jobs in Ireland are few and far between so I may have to take a lower position when I return. That frightens me but at least I can say that I have been "successful" in that regard!

I'm married but don't have kids so I've been 'successful' in love. However from experiences in my extended family, I know that separation and divorce can happen to anybody.

I do like my beers and I like my steak dinners. I'm into fitness but not as successful there as I'd like to be although I have won plenty of tenpin bowling medals and I did trial for the Irish swimming team when I was younger (never took it further despite an offer). That said, I'm not as sporty as I used to be.

Thankfully, I am very in touch with my feelings and emotions, sometimes embarrassingly so You know the guy who sniffles quietly at the sad bit in a movie in the cinema, the guy you think is a total sap? That's me

So that's me! The pressures? Well I feel really bad that I have to call in a plumber or plasterer even for the simplest most minor jobs, I feel that I should be able to do that but experience has shown that my attempts to save money by DIY usually cost me more in the long run!

Terodil

'Lads' talk'. Oh my god. Why does a group of men, when tossed together, suddenly feel the need to lose everything that may have hinted at intelligence and start dicktalking? I never understood that crap. It's not just the drunk/adolescent guys either, it happens even with the most distinguished guys around.

I really resent the male stereotype conveyed by many movies in the cinema too. Of course you get the occasional mastermind, but usually, when it comes to problem solving, I feel there's a clearly visible pattern: If the hero is male, then it's generally solved with brawn and some grunting. If the heroine is female, then the problem is generally solved with some clever schemes and finesse. Why? It really gets my goat.

Oh, and my final gripe with my 'comrades': Having to drink all the f* time. Why? Killing off your braincells in a systematic manner does not make you any more manly, so you can just as well stop boasting about your insane drinking last weekend straight away. And no I don't care about your headache. :mad:

Kournikova

I think that Ireland is still more sexist and expects men to fill stereotypes more than the UK for example.

A person I know finished top of her class in Trinity in the 80s and couldn't get a job in Ireland while men who did worse than her at college got jobs, then went to London worked for JP Morgan and had a top job while her husband minded the kids at home, which was kinda a role reversal but wasn't really a problem in London at the time. Like in the 80s in Ireland I don't think a househusband would have been unimaginable. Therefore she was the provider with her big job.

I hate all stereotypes, wether it is male or female.

Dr Galen

Good thread Will. Well played.

Like others, I try not to buy into the stereotypes. If the sterotypes were true, then I'd be a right weirdo I think.

First up, I'm a nurse. Yep, a male nurse, and nope I'm not gay lol. I'm married to a pretty hot lady. Being a man training and then working in my job though, you occasionally came across the odd dickwad who took the piss, but mostly you get nothing but respect for what your doing. Which is kinda funny, seeing as nursing is still seen by many as a womens job.

The fact that I didn't live up to the sterotypical vision of a mal nurse probably had something to do with that though. I also love my sports, my beers, have had an eye for the ladies etc etc.

Tbh I think if you stay true to your own beliefs and views then you can't go wrong. So if its natural for you, to be in touch with your emotions, then cool. If not, well then thats also cool (to a point obviously).

Will

Just interested to hear from other men i suppose. I work as a care assistant and like yourself mystik monkey it's a job that is regularly seen as womans job. Can do most diy things too but am rarely bothered.

I'm your regular joe with a few piercings and tattoos thrown into the mix, i wouldn't describe myself as a macho type, but no airy fairy either. Somewhere in the middle, like most lads i think.

I'm fairly open in some respects, but i find if im a bit down in the dumps or what have you I won't talk about it. I will just go off on a walk and try clear my head. I think it's tough for us guys at times. When I am in a bad mood sometimes i don't wanna talk about it, but other times I do but can't bring myself to talk to someone. If ya get me? I'd say most would be the same here?

maherro

I feel pressure. Im 23 and I have just finished college. I feel enormous pressure to get a job im looking but so far no luck. Being unemployed and broke for this long is really starting to get to me.
It's even starting to affect my confidence when Im going out and trying to talk to women. I just feel like Im failing.

And dont even get me started on how you're supposed to look......

CDfm

maherro wrote: »

And dont even get me started on how you're supposed to look......

You are supposed to wear a trousers:D

Will

Same boat myself, 23, finished a degree in computer science. Still in my old job as a care assistant but thats only part time. I feel pressure to 'get my life on track' and get sorted.

If it makes you feel any better out of a group of maybe 70 or so, only 2 people i know got jobs related to IT. Was talking to a few yesterday and most are on the dole :-/

I'm stupidly comfortable with the way i look, i don't feel pressured into looking a certain way or wearing particular clothes. I wear whats comfy and what i like. Usually jeans and a tshirt with a hoodie

found this earlier - http://www.madatoms.com/uploads/content/images/backgrounds/large/article_HighsLows.jpg
pretty hilarious and somewhat true

maherro

haha trousers? so that what I was doing wrong.......

I think theres a bit of confusion when I mention the look. I meant physically like 6 pack and the likes

CDfm

maherro wrote: »

I think theres a bit of confusion when I mention the look. I meant physically like 6 pack and the likes

Physically you can look how you like -its up to you. Six pack?? Lol.



In my work Im expected to wear a suit sometimes but wear jeans leather jackets and cowboy boots most of the time. I tend to wear what I feel or look good in.

Snowie

To me, I get over whelmed watching sports or big crowds I think thats something that any one who has competed understands. I can cook well enough, (modisity)
I can breast pijons hat have been shot or work with most dead animals and fishs.
Im ok at diy my old man taught me a bit, there's a huge sense of satisfaction from it to. cars i can fix a few things.
I think modern day man is has some what evolved to me there's been a conspiracy with women to make us more sensitive or something..

As for emotional moments I have had a cry usually on my own, i did actually cry to a movie once it was a bout this dude racing his horse accross the dessert and it died at the end was a sad movie can't beleave the horse died...

I might fit into a stereo type, I can understand, 30 years ago but the world
of men being "" has some what changed I think. or maybe some of us have the common sense to see that in ways we had to change..

maybe ?

CDfm

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

First up, I'm a nurse. Yep, a male nurse, and nope I'm not gay lol. I'm married to a pretty hot lady. Being a man training and then working in my job though, you occasionally came across the odd dickwad who took the piss, but mostly you get nothing but respect for what your doing. Which is kinda funny, seeing as nursing is still seen by many as a womens job.

#1 Son has just gotten his leaving cert results. I told his gran that he had enough points to do midwifery in Drogheda adding gratuitiously -its all he's ever wanted to do.:pac: (it was really a ruse to stop her doing the rounds of relatives and friends with his results)

He is gonna do an IT degree and though she doesn't understand it -she is now delighted.

You can't really knock nursing as its well paid and permanent with flexi-work and always in demand. IT may not be as secure.

Will

Just finishing up a degree in computer apps from DCU and there is feck all jobs. Hopefully stuff will pick up before he graduates. IT will always be needed, specifically security and forensics.

I was bobbing between IT and nursing myself, chose IT.

entropi

Feeling i should add my piece to this, here goes:

I'm now 28, in my last year of a sports therapy course and qualified as a masseur...yet men seen as rubbing others down is looked upon by many other men as "gay". Would like to work in a rehabilitation field, but may need to look towards a degree to find work sadly:(

Growing up, i like the rest of you would have felt pressures of upholding manly things like playing soccer and going to the pub with my mates...yes i played soccer but shunned the booze, which sort of alienated me from my mates. I actually didnt care for ages, as i'm one of those men who bottles things up and finds an outlet other than talking to sort them out. I would actually love to be able to talk about stuff like that with someone but its damn hard, especially being single for a long time:P

Manly achievements by me = not many...i've a thin athletic build, i cant cook, do DIY i dont eat meat, hardly ever go out and drink and aint working either, so possibly make up for it through sports, i take part in every sports event my college places teams for, play hurling and go running now too...looking to doing the marathon this year with only 20 weeks training under my belt.

To answer the topic in my own way, men these days are expected to hold up, in Ireland anyway, to the traditional male image of burly, confident men who work as firemen, dont talk about "stuff" and bring home enough money to feed a family. However as is always the case, there are enough of us to turn the stereotype flipside and manage to hold it all together while taking the otherwise "alternative" route to manlihood:)

maherro

Master of Nothing wrote: »

i'm one of those men who bottles things up and finds an outlet other than talking to sort them out. I would actually love to be able to talk about stuff like that with someone but its damn hard, especially being single for a long time

+1

CDfm

I have never played hurling or whatever really. What is this manly stuff you feel compelled to do.

I got into skincare products last year and my daughter borrows my toner and moisturoiser. A couple of weeks back I got a facial on a Saturday morning before my girlfriend who handles all the DIY in my house dragged me off to the pub to watch the rugby.

We went to Lush the other week (an upmarket Body Shop) and I got an exfolient called Dark Angel made from charcoal, sugar and a few other bits.

Hey -if someone called me metrosexual I would take it as a complement.

I can't see why a guy won't work as a masseur if he is qualified at it

A real man

I'm 28 and sort of an alpha male outwardly I suppose, dunno why but many consider me sort of a hard egg, not into fighting and stuff so don't understand where that comes from, Guards quite often seem suspicous of me, recently one asked me had I come to their attention before after pulling me over for no apparent reason. I replied "no guard, do I look familiar ?" even though I knew full well what he meant . I often would prefer to look more of a metro sexual, I reckon more ladies go for the sort of gay looking chap nowadays

I'd consider my Dad a real man, he was into sport and was good at boxing in particular, a real man's man, but a heart of gold. But I consider him a real man for how he dealt with my mum being diagnosed with cancer about 6 years ago, he was a rock for Mum, me and my sister. He gave up work straight away and became Mum's full time carer, he did an unreal job of looking after Mum and for the 10 months she was with us (unexpectedly as we found out after she passed away) after being diagnosed I think she was the happiest I ever saw her strangely enough. Due no doubt to Dad. Anyway that's what made my Dad a real man to me.

Dad's more or less my best friend, hang around with him and we go away for weekends and whatnot, over to the UK etc. Dad's 61 soon so not quite as handy as he was back in the day I imagine, when we're out and about I always keep an eye open and somehow always feel a bit tensed up. I remember a few years ago himself me and my sister were out for a meal, they were about 40 feet ahead of me, think I was on the phone or something, one of those beggars types that are quite healthy looking started mouthing off at him and the sister because they didn't give the pr1ck some change, the cowardly bastad wasn't long shutting up when I made him aware he was shouting at my Dad. I could quite happily have battered that pri1ck senseless which isn't like me at all to be honest.

Reflector

I hate stereotypes,
As a gay man when I was a teen I thought that I was going to become some screaming queen. Obviusly that never happened and now I realise that men come in all types personality wise. I know that for straight guys it must be tough if you are not this rampaging ball of testosterone and everyone will think you are a fag. I reckon these narrow views on masculinity are dated. I reckon if you are confident in who you are then thats all there needs to be.
Gender wise I think that both men and women have blended into a more ambiguous state. Women are more ambitious and confident thanks to the feminist movement and men have become more emotional and empathetic.

Snowie

I don't really see any pressures to be this or that as a man...
I'm me i can do something that other men can't do but i can't do other things....

I am who I am.

CDfm

Wait a minute.

Reading this thread I haven't come across 1 action hero except RoverJames.

Where are all our beer swilling sex obsessed violent types who beat up their wives and kids when they can't change the TV channel cos they can't use the remote.

Will

I wouldn't be an action hero but I am fiercely protective of my friends and family. That's about as macho as I get

entropi

CDfm wrote: »

I have never played hurling or whatever really. What is this manly stuff you feel compelled to do.

Not compelled, but its more expected of me to be probably more like my little brother, who was a soldier, loves a few pints and goes out with the lads etc. I on the otherhand would never be compared to him, actually look younger even tho he is 23, use moisturiser, body scrub and sunscreen too these days, look after myself diet and health wise and not that into going out getting drunk and chasing women. Sometimes just sitting in watching tv is all i need to be happy...

We went to Lush the other week (an upmarket Body Shop) and I got an exfolient called Dark Angel made from charcoal, sugar and a few other bits.

Hey -if someone called me metrosexual I would take it as a complement.

Fair play to ya, i've heard only good things about the place from a female friend of mine, quite an aroma from it too haha! It must feel quite rewarding to have a good bond with her:) If someone called me metro, well then i guess i could be...not gonna bother me in the slightest:)

I can't see why a guy won't work as a masseur if he is qualified at it

I dont understand it either, i would be more than happy to work at it myself, put alot of time and effort into my training and got very good exam results because of it, both practical and theory aspects.

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd consider my Dad a real man, he was into sport and was good at boxing in particular, a real man's man, but a heart of gold. But I consider him a real man for how he dealt with my mum being diagnosed with cancer about 6 years ago, he was a rock for Mum, me and my sister. He gave up work straight away and became Mum's full time carer, he did an unreal job of looking after Mum and for the 10 months she was with us (unexpectedly as we found out after she passed away) after being diagnosed I think she was the happiest I ever saw her strangely enough. Due no doubt to Dad. Anyway that's what made my Dad a real man to me.

Dad's more or less my best friend, hang around with him and we go away for weekends and whatnot, over to the UK etc. Dad's 61 soon so not quite as handy as he was back in the day I imagine, when we're out and about I always keep an eye open and somehow always feel a bit tensed up. I remember a few years ago himself me and my sister were out for a meal, they were about 40 feet ahead of me, think I was on the phone or something, one of those beggars types that are quite healthy looking started mouthing off at him and the sister because they didn't give the pr1ck some change, the cowardly bastad wasn't long shutting up when I made him aware he was shouting at my Dad. I could quite happily have battered that pri1ck senseless which isn't like me at all to be honest.

Now that there is a real nice story, made me smile reading it:D A real example of the love a family can have towards, and share with each other.

Reflector wrote: »

I hate stereotypes,
As a gay man when I was a teen I thought that I was going to become some screaming queen. Obviusly that never happened and now I realise that men come in all types personality wise. I know that for straight guys it must be tough if you are not this rampaging ball of testosterone and everyone will think you are a fag. I reckon these narrow views on masculinity are dated. I reckon if you are confident in who you are then thats all there needs to be.
Gender wise I think that both men and women have blended into a more ambiguous state. Women are more ambitious and confident thanks to the feminist movement and men have become more emotional and empathetic.

Very true this, everyone is here in a different shape, mental state and colour...most just dont get used to the fact you do not need to fit a common stereotype. Like you mention, confidence in who you are is all a person needs in life, the rest should fall into place afterwards.

With the state some women are letting themselves get into these days, i'd be surprised they could be called a woman...the only indicator is the gender itself. I'm sure that in a few generations there will be one of a few outcomes of all this:

a. Roles will be reversed, women will be the dominant species.

b. Males will return to older ways of thinking and reverse the thinkings of newer metro men into the 1950's style man.

c. Both genders will be some some sort of androgynous beings, equally sharing responsibility alot more visibly than they do today, thinking alike and totally open to sharing emotion and lifestyles.

RedXIV

I'd say, without trying to sound arrogant or cocky that i would fit the male stereotype. I never talk about my emotions, never needed to, just deal with things myself and always seems to work, i'm fairly independent, I can cook, clean, do a bit of DIY and I've always managed to secure SOME form of income, even if it's barely enough to live on. I had to survive on a "loan" from my OH for about 2 months in college (after 3 and a half years going alone ) and it was one of the most embarssing things for me. I hated it. I've no interest in fashion, bathroom products or interior design and I love contact sports and big hearty dinners.

And i think i'm like this because of my dad who was a more extreme version of me. He used to fix everything in our house, and as a guard had a very authoritative presence that commanded respect. He put his back out badly last week and it was the first time my life i've ever seen him complain due to pain so i knew it was bad. He's my total idol and i'd love to be as strong as him and i guess subconsciously i modelled myself after him?

Dr Galen

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd consider my Dad a real man, he was into sport and was good at boxing in particular, a real man's man, but a heart of gold. But I consider him a real man for how he dealt with my mum being diagnosed with cancer about 6 years ago, he was a rock for Mum, me and my sister. He gave up work straight away and became Mum's full time carer, he did an unreal job of looking after Mum and for the 10 months she was with us (unexpectedly as we found out after she passed away) after being diagnosed I think she was the happiest I ever saw her strangely enough. Due no doubt to Dad. Anyway that's what made my Dad a real man to me.

coming from my own professional background, I'd have to take my hat off to your dad. I'd also agree that what he did, makes him a real man. No amount of beer swilling or woman chasing or fighting comes close to this sort of thing. you should be well proud dude.

trout

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd consider my Dad a real man, he was into sport and was good at boxing in particular, a real man's man, but a heart of gold. But I consider him a real man for how he dealt with my mum being diagnosed with cancer about 6 years ago, he was a rock for Mum, me and my sister. He gave up work straight away and became Mum's full time carer, he did an unreal job of looking after Mum and for the 10 months she was with us (unexpectedly as we found out after she passed away) after being diagnosed I think she was the happiest I ever saw her strangely enough. Due no doubt to Dad. Anyway that's what made my Dad a real man to me.

What a man, what an excellent example. That must have been a great comfort to your poor mother. Lovely story, thanks for that.

ChocolateSauce

I once was in a situation where a drunk mate of mine at a party got into a heated argument with some other guests about what it meant to be a man. Most of my male friends are not macho and some are downright bizarre. Anyway he insisted that boxers and lumberjacks and so on were real men. The next day he was fired for being drunk at work.

I later told him that being a man meant being able to hold down a job, to stick to your commitments and live up to your responsibilities. It also means not getting into fights when you're drunk (or sober) and not teasing other men who don't mind being effeminate.

maherro

Ive always felt that everything a man was meant to be was summed up nicely by Rupard Kilpling :

You'll Be a Man, My Son
If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
Rudyard Kipling

Ive always felt it just says - life isn't fair but do your best and you'll be fine

CDfm

Rudyard Kipling - is that the same guy who wrote about scarpering of to India -leave the woman bring up the kids and come back when they are reared?

Betcha he never changed a nappy.

nkay1985

Good thread, some good reading, specially RoverJames' story.

Here's me. I'm 24. Working doing software support after doing electronic engineering in UL. Have been with my girlfriend for 8 years who's now my fiancee. Bought a house this year. With that house came a lot of painting, putting up fixtures and fittings and the like. I built a crude whelping box for one of our dogs who just had puppies.So from DIY perspective, I suppose I'm a typical man. I'm decent at it but no great shakes.

I've always loved sports. Was never the best at any of them but have played practically everything at some stage. Still play soccer a bit and love to play pool/snooker and darts. Watch every hurling match I can. Watch lots and lots of soccer. I kind of watch any sport that's shown on tv. (Yes, I do watch curling. No, my girlfriend couldn't believe it either). So if that's a typical male attitude, then I'm typical in that way too.

But I've always had very close female friends. My two closest friends now are female. I don't think there's anything I couldn't talk to them about. And I am pretty open but I do sometimes bottle stuff up like most men. My girlfriend is convinced that I do it more than I really do because most stuff just doesn't bother me. I very easily come to terms with bad stuff; family troubles and that.

I'm not a big strong lad in any way, shape or form. But I'm fiercely protective of my family and loved ones. When I was playing golf before, a prick I went to school with started saying stuff about my mother to show off in front of his friends. My cousin had to drag me away and calm me down because I was genuinely going to hit him with whatever club was in my hand. I would have gotten killed! But it's just something that's been bred into me. I know for a fact that my father would die to save any of us from harm.

I also tend to be the male of my relationship. I would pay for stuff more often than not. And I'd also be the one to take the initiative in terms of stupid things like ordering in a take away or asking someone for assistance.


I think I'm just an average guy. If the modern male stereotype is a beer-swilling, violent, misogynistic, assholoe then I'm not it. If it's a guy who likes sports, isn't completely useless with his hands and still holds some degree of chivalry, then maybe I am a stereotype! But I'm comfortable with who I am and anyone who's not can fcuk right off.

KnifeWRENCH

Hmm, let's see....
I'm rubbish at DIY and have no interest in it.
I'm rubbish at sport and have little to no interest in it (I occasionally have interest in football, hurling and tennis)
I don't work out, have a very low pain threshold and am fairly physically weak.
I don't know anything about cars.
I'm not a big drinker and I especially hate the taste of beer.

I really don't fit any of the "alpha male" stereotypes.

My Dad is a DIY and home improvement expert: he's a welder, carpenter, gardener, mechanic, you name it. I'm the complete opposite. He's never put pressure on me to get involved with his type of work or anything but since I'm his only son (have two older sisters) I often wonder if he's slightly disappointed that not only am I hopeless at everything he's good at but I have no real interest in it.

tallaght01

I remember the day I became a man. I was about 19 and working in a takeaway. This guy came in and he was bollock drunk, causing lots of trouble. He was a scrawny guy in his 40s. Tiny little skanger. I asked him to leave and he did. 2 minutes later he came back and demanded an apology from me. He squared up to me and told me he was gonna make me a cripple if I didn't apologise. The place was packed and everyone stopped to look. He said he was only going to leave when I said I was sorry.

We eyed each other up. I'm 6"1 and was very fit back then. He was a physical wreck and about 5"7. I thought to myself I can batter this guy and the crowd here will think I'm a legend. Then he said "this is your last chance to apologise". Then I did it. I thought I wasn't gonna fight this guy for the sake of an apology. So, I apologised to him. He was delighted an he called me a pussy, and left.

For weeks I beat myself up about it. I kept saying I should have just battered him. The other guy working me in the shop told me I should have givin him a hiding, and the amassed crowd seemed pretty disappointed at me. But it was only years later that I realised I did the right thing. But it's still one of my most vivid memories of being a young man.

I'm quite comfortable talking about my emotions with my close friends. We've all been pals years, and have mostly hung out with the same people all that time.I'm balls at DIY, and when I moved into my first apartment my dad even had to put my bed together. He's a sheet metal worker, and a proper man. I'm not so good at all that stuff. I work in health, and have spent quite a bit of my career working specifically with babies. My job is full of women and gay men, but I'm grand with that.

But, on the other hand I can be the stereotypical male. I think going to a hairdresser if you're a bloke or using skin products or fancy shampoo is pretty bent. I do martial arts and really enjoy a scrap in a controlled environment. I've been ill lately, and have been told I'm not allowed do much for the next while. So, I feel less of a man when friends have to come around to drive me to the shops etc. Whereas I feel that side of thing would be easier for a woman.

But you have to look at the positives. The chicks have MUCH more pressure. I wear what i want to work and when I'm out and about. I don't give a mickey what I look like. I'm 31 and not married, which would be starting to become a worry if I were a woman, because i would like kids.

So, I think we have it easier than the fairer sex, by and large. I wouldn't be a woman for any money!

You'll never know if you could have battered him or not, your martial arts training should have you well aware that appearances / size matter little in a fight.

tbh

it's not about whether he could beat him up or not, it's that he chose not to try.

tallaght01

tbh wrote: »

it's not about whether he could beat him up or not, it's that he chose not to try.

Plus the guy was totally wankered :P

tbh

I've started a thread about rites of passage here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61703076#post61703076

tbh

some off topic posts deleted

Otis Driftwood

Ive never understood the inclination of some men to fight at the drop of a hat.Im of the opinion that it takes a helluva lot more bottle to walk away than to start throwing fists.I would always have the fear that you could get a lucky punch in,the other guy gets knocked out and ends up smashing his head off a kerb of something.

What then.You are up in court facing man slaughter charges because someone jumped ahead of you in a queue for a bag of chips.Thats worth a few years in jail and a criminal record alright.

Of course there are occasions that you have no choice but to defend yourself but for me that always has been and always will be the very last resort.And I am very much a man.

I was assaulted once and only once, a chap started on me outside the nightclub in the GlenRoyal hotel in Maynooth, he was threatening to stab me etc inside there, I told him to work away, outside he confronted me and threw punch, I blocked the punch and told him he would want to throw the next one a lot faster. There was no next one, the poor chap didn't know what to do, he looked a right t1t. Even when his buddy stood by him they didn't fancy it.

tbh

RoverJames wrote: »

I was assaulted once and only once, a chap started on me outside the nightclub in the GlenRoyal hotel in Maynooth, he was threatening to stab me etc inside there, I told him to work away, outside he confronted me and threw punch, I blocked the punch and told him he would want to throw the next one a lot faster. There was no next one, the poor chap didn't know what to do, he looked a right t1t. Even when his buddy stood by him they didn't fancy it.

whenever I start thinking about how'd I'd hope to act in that situation, it'd be something like that in reality, I'd probably crap myself and run.

it's weird tho, I have been in situations where I would have assumed I'd be terrible, but have been ok. I was first on the scene at a road accident once and surprised myself by how calm I was - only after the ambulance arrived did I start shaking.

Running wasn't an option as I had a lady friend with me. I would have preferred if my reaction was to block the punch and then drop him. I instinctively blocked the punc but there was no instintive reaction to hit him. The two of them followed us (keeping about 30 feet back) as we walked away to my car that was parked a few hundred yards away. I kept looking back at them (we were walking not running) they made no attempt to catch up, when we got to the car I opened the passenger door for herself, looked towards the lads, who had stopped walking and were 20 feet away, then I walked over to my side, opened the door and was sitting in when they dashed over all agressive, I slammed the door shut and locked it, (half sitting into a car isn't a great defending stance to be in). They were banging at the door and windows shouting for me to get out. We drove off, a part of me would really have respected me more if I stopped after a hundred yards, got out and went back to them. I'm not a fighter though so no matter how much I would have liked to I know I never would. I presume the reason I didnt puch him back was because I didn't feel threatened, dunno really. Instinct, adrenaline etc are hard to explain.

Khannie

Great thread Will. Some super posts here.

Hmmmm. This is a weird one. I tick a lot of the male stereotype boxes.....

"Manly" characteristics:
I'm fiercely protective.
I can probably kick the snot out of most people (I do Muay Thai and fight competitively).
I'm fit / lean / strong / etc. (though not terribly big, that's partly because I stick to a fighting weight).
I'm the only breadwinner.
I have 2 kids and a 3rd (not the last) on the way - I _love_ reproducing.
I'm good at fixing stuff including cars and what not.
I superglue / duct tape myself back together (true story).
I get angry at the pain when I get hurt (another true story).

"Unmanly" characteristics:
I don't drink much really.
I love hugs.
My wife and kids melt my heart all the time.
I'm a big geek.
Apart from Muay Thai I'm not really into sports. Wouldn't give you a thank you for a game of footie generally.
My wife is better at lots of DIY things than me (anything that requires a level of accuracy and / or cleanliness).
I moisturise.
Growing up I had more female than male friends.

In terms of pressure....yeah. I feel a lot of pressure. Mostly it's self imposed though. I think most pressure is. A clever man I know pointed that out to me and I agree with it.

I think nkay hit the nail on the head really:

nkay1985 wrote: »

I think I'm just an average guy. If the modern male stereotype is a beer-swilling, violent, misogynistic, assholoe then I'm not it. If it's a guy who likes sports, isn't completely useless with his hands and still holds some degree of chivalry, then maybe I am a stereotype! But I'm comfortable with who I am and anyone who's not can fcuk right off.

Khannie

RoverJames wrote: »

You'll never know if you could have battered him or not, your martial arts training should have you well aware that appearances / size matter little in a fight.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Most martial arts training isn't worth a **** in a street fight. Size matters. A LOT.

edit: Just for clarity; I am not the violent type, despite fighting in the ring regularly I never get into fights on the street.

entropi

RoverJames wrote: »

I was assaulted once and only once, a chap started on me outside the nightclub in the GlenRoyal hotel in Maynooth, he was threatening to stab me etc inside there, I told him to work away, outside he confronted me and threw punch, I blocked the punch and told him he would want to throw the next one a lot faster. There was no next one, the poor chap didn't know what to do, he looked a right t1t. Even when his buddy stood by him they didn't fancy it.

Fair play to ya, that Glenroyal is a complete sh*thole tbh, the only decent place to drink in that town is The Roost:)

Yes i'm sure he probably deserved to be taken clean out of it, but you definately did the more "manly" thing in the end:cool:

So you reckon on the street in a fight size matters a lot, that old stock couldn't be further from the truth. Some of the hardest, toughest lads I know would be less than 5 foot 8 and weigh less than 11 stone, on the street, if required they would tackle fearlessly a guy much bigger. Now in the ring, with gloves and rules they wouldn't fancy their chances but on the street, where anything goes it often comes down to the size of the fight in the man rather than the size of the man in the fight. Don't forget when you're in the ring you're not going to get bopped in the eye socket or kicked in the groin, stood on or have your head bounced off a wall / concrete flooe etc. I won't be agreeing with you on this one, not wanting to be argumentative. Also I did some kick boxing years back and can remember holding my own against 6 foot odd guys with blackbelts in Karate whereas smaller dudes with a background in traditional boxing or thai boxing used to batter me to death in sparring.

Will

I think a lot has to do with confidence in yourself. My dad is a garda, not macho at all, very soft spoken man. Like most kids their parents impact them hugely. My dad was always telling me to be myself and not be ashamed of who i am. All the stuff I presume parents tell their kids anyway.

I've been in a few hairy situations before, and gotten out of them by talking and standing tall so to speak. This is due to 2 factors I believe, one being my father who would always tell me "don't be afraid of any scummer who comes up to start trouble with you, your a big lad and better fed than most of them." I'd always shrug it off.
Then my job as a care assisant, I come up against a lot of challenging and in some cases aggressive behaviour. At the start I wasn't used to it at all, but over time you become accustomed to it. Remember the first time there was an incident, I was shaking and all nervous. You get used to it though and know how to deal with it and all of a sudden your taking it in your stride.

I've been in a physical argument once, had a longer post but doesn't matter. Basically I tried to talk him out of it but he wasn't having any of it. So i pushed him over then walked away. Some things you can't avoid no matter what

Khannie

RoverJames wrote: »

Also I did some kick boxing years back and can remember holding my own against 6 foot odd guys with blackbelts in Karate whereas smaller dudes with a background in traditional boxing or thai boxing used to batter me to death in sparring.

I wasn't saying that a little guy can't batter a big guy, only that mostly the big guy's gonna win and that most martial arts aren't worth a **** in a street fight (as you rightly pointed out, the street is a far cry from the ring and most martial arts don't even get as far as the ring!).

tbh

guys brief tangents are grand, but we keep getting dragged more and more indepth to a disucssion on what was a very minor detail.

There's dedicated forums for the discussion of fighting styles, it's not really what this thread is about tho.

thanking you.

Khannie

It's the male in me.