Tottenham vs Liverpool FC

whatawaster

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Masch maybe?

you would have sold our other top midfielder? I hope everyone else here now fully realises what we're dealing with when it comes to you.
No logic whatsoever. Mascherano has been one of our best players for 2 and a half years. Robbie Keane played well about 4 times for us. Yet you would keep Keane and sell Mascherano. You are clearly winding us up

Headshot

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Masch maybe?

you live up to your name

Mental Mickey

whatawaster wrote: »

you would have sold our other top midfielder? I hope everyone else here now fully realises what we're dealing with when it comes to you.
No logic whatsoever. Mascherano has been one of our best players for 2 and a half years. Robbie Keane played well about 4 times for us. Yet you would keep Keane and sell Mascherano. You are clearly winding us up

You asked what other player we could sell to raise funds, and I mentioned Masch. Can't see any other players in the team that would raise a big amount of cash......unless of course, you would wish us to sell Torres?

whatawaster

Mental Mickey wrote: »

You asked what other player we could sell to raise funds, and I mentioned Masch. Can't see any other players in the team that would raise a big amount of cash......unless of course, you would wish us to sell Torres?

Oh for god sake. You know perfectly well i was asking you for a logical, realistic alternative to selling Keane. you clearly can't provide one, admit it.

joe123

Terrible showing by us today. Gerrard was playing so deep that he basically was a 5th midfielder, and he was playing deep because the ball wasnt brought forward or passed forward by any of our other midfielders.

So Lucas is the man to step up while Aquilani is out? yet he doesnt. He plays simple balls backwards and sidewards. Never tries to push the game along. We had alonso last year to feed the ball to Gerrard who in turn had time to move on to Torres.

We have a seriously weak squad. Babel and Voronin should be both sold, cut our losses and bring in Nemeth and Pacheco (Pacheco is absolute quality).

If we really have **** all money to spend I was thinking would a move for Krancjar be such a bad decision? IMO for the right money he would be a great addition to the squad and apparently portsmouth are in the **** money wise.

If we did have money to spend id say **** it break the bank and go get Aguero or Villa. (Yes this means dropping Gerrard back)

Im really worried about this season. While Aquilani is out, our service to Gerrard and Torres is non existent.

Im nearly of the impression that untill we get Aquilani fit play Yossi behind Torres and drop Gerrard deeper. Lucas is simply not good enough.

If it wasnt for Reina we would of lost 4-1 today.

rossie1977

Stargate wrote: »

can you bring on the 2010/2011 season Eire-Dearg please , maybe we COULD win that one

not going to win that one either

killwill

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

obviously we have a lot more Liverpool fans on here so will get a lot more people saying liverpool (or their individual players) did x, y & z wrong but i gotta say Spurs did well today and actually have a very strong squad this year

Agree 100% with you. Didi anyone elso hear Hoddle say they would finish in the top 4 or didi I imagine that?

Stargate

rossie1977 wrote: »

not going to win that one either

was reading your stats on alonso , did you Rafas interview after the game ?
when asked did wemiss xabi ? he said
" we have won games without alonso so its not fair to ask about that "

I think we missed xabi today bigtime our bench is so weak , if stevie or nando get injured we are goosed :eek:

spockety

People are picking up on hoddle saying spurs have a stronger squad than liverpool. Maybe there is merit in that, i don't know. But what i do know is i'd much rather have liverpool's squad than spurs, because we will finish higher than them in the league with ours. Simple as.

Running Bing

killwill wrote: »

Agree 100% with you. Didi anyone elso hear Hoddle say they would finish in the top 4 or didi I imagine that?

Yeah he did...As a Spurs fan I hate that.

We have a very strong team now but the league is so competitive its hard to make predictions like that.

Chelsea, Manu, Pool and Arsenal have to be the favourites and you have City in there as well now.

Its nice to aim high and Im very happy with our squad+manager now but we've let ourselves down so much in the past I think its time to just wait and see what happens. Great performance today though and lots of positives to take.

Stargate

spockety wrote: »

People are picking up on hoddle saying spurs have a stronger squad than liverpool. Maybe there is merit in that, i don't know. But what i do know is i'd much rather have liverpool's squad than spurs, because we will finish higher than them in the league with ours. Simple as.

Good Point , hope it turns out to be true spockety

Running Bing

spockety wrote: »

People are picking up on hoddle saying spurs have a stronger squad than liverpool. Maybe there is merit in that, i don't know. But what i do know is i'd much rather have liverpool's squad than spurs, because we will finish higher than them in the league with ours. Simple as.

Liverpool have Gerrard and Torres.

Mr Alan

and reina.

Mr Alan

and carragher, skrtel & agger

Mr Alan

and kuyt

Mr Alan

Stargate

Running Bing wrote: »

Liverpool have Gerrard and Torres.

i believe the back bone of the team Reine/Gerrard/Torres is really great ,but if stevie or torres gets injured thats when the problem really start , the bench isnt strong enough , having said that we cant play as bad as we did today ........can we ? If Carsberg did dreams..........

Mikeyt086

So Reina is on a level with Torres and Gerrard now?

Running Bing

Still..stop Gerrard and Torres and Liverpool are closer to City/Spurs/Villa/Everton etc. than ManU and Chelsea.


I know thats very difficult (thats why Liverpool finish up the top consistently) but the teams over reliance on those players is a weakness you need to address if you want to win the league.

Mr Alan

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

So Reina is on a level with Torres and Gerrard now?

absolutely.

one of the best in his position in the world, and has been for the last couple of years.

PHB

rossie1977 wrote: »

we knew that, i uploaded the stats, you and others laughed at them 30% win rate without alonso in the side last 2 years, 67% with him in it, its clear as day how vital he was

Nope, we just laughed at what you claimed was maths

Mr Alan

Running Bing wrote: »

Still..stop Gerrard and Torres and Liverpool are closer to City/Spurs/Villa/Everton etc. than ManU and Chelsea.


I know thats very difficult (thats why Liverpool finish up the top consistently) but the teams over reliance on those players is a weakness you need to address if you want to win the league.

this argument is so stupid.

take Fabregas & Arshavin out of Arsenals team.
Rooney & ferdinand/vidic out of Utds team.

Chelseas "squad" is the best, there isn't much in the rest of the top 4.

Stargate

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

So Reina is on a level with Torres and Gerrard now?

you dont agree ? :rolleyes: he was our best player today Mikey ,without him it would have been 4-1 or more , im saying the main back bone of the team is ok Reine / Gerrad / Torres

ROCKMAN

Running Bing wrote: »

Liverpool have Gerrard and Torres.

Mr Alan wrote: »

and reina.

Mr Alan wrote: »

and carragher, skrtel & agger

Mr Alan wrote: »

and kuyt

And not a hell of a lot after that , Think thats the point Hoddle was trying to make.

not taking the piss but look at the two benches,
Also someone has to break Utd and Chelsea grip , Liverpool have no given right to be the first to do it , Why can it not be Spurs or City (2very strong squads )

Mikeyt086

Mr Alan wrote: »

absolutely.

one of the best in his position in the world, and has been for the last couple of years.

Really? I honestly (no wind-ups here im serious) think Reina is a very good keeper, but he occasionally comes up with moments of sheer lunacy that cost his team a match. To be up with the best, the Casillas', Buffons and J.Cesars of the world you need a consistency and presence that i dont think Reina has. Cech had it, but he lost it. Van Der Sar had it, but age got the better of him. I think Shay Given would have it if he wasnt Irish.

Stargate, i agree he was exellent today. Kept you in it. And as i said i rate him highly. Just not best in the world like Torres/Gerrard style.

My Liverpool supporting mates reffer to his as "Monk" as in the phsyco goalie from Mean Machine.

Torres is the best striker in the world imo.
Gerrard is arguabley the best midfielder in the world.
Reina would be behind a number of goalkeepers accross Europe.

Again this isnt a jibe at him, think he is great and no need for a change, but as a goalkeeper myself im shocked he is seen as important as Torres and Gerrard to you.

Mr Alan

all great goalies are mental!

Reina has probably made 2/3 mistakes in the last 2 years.

Stargate

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Really? I honestly (no wind-ups here im serious) think Reina is a very good keeper, but he occasionally comes up with moments of sheer lunacy that cost his team a match. To be up with the best, the Casillas', Buffons and J.Cesars of the world you need a consistency and presence that i dont think Reina has. Cech had it, but he lost it. Van Der Sar had it, but age got the better of him. I think Shay Given would have it if he wasnt Irish.

Stargate, i agree he was exellent today. Kept you in it. And as i said i rate him highly. Just not best in the world like Torres/Gerrard style.

My Liverpool supporting mates reffer to his as "Monk" as in the phsyco goalie from Mean Machine.

Torres is the best striker in the world imo.
Gerrard is arguabley the best midfielder in the world.
Reina would be behind a number of goalkeepers accross Europe.

Again this isnt a jibe at him, think he is great and no need for a change, but as a goalkeeper myself im shocked he is seen as important as Torres and Gerrard to you.

Thanks for the reply Mikey ,

Stargate, i agree he was exellent today. Kept you in it. And as i said i rate him highly. Just not best in the world like Torres/Gerrard style.
i do appreciate that Mikey , Read that with interest ,and agree with a lot of it , Point taken there are many great keepers worldwide , i think ALL keepers are prone to lunacy , ( How bout yourself LoL , you ever have one of those days ) Who do think is the best keeper in the world at present Mikeyt ?
Ta ,Stargate

Mikeyt086

Mr Alan wrote: »

all great goalies are mental!

Truer words never spoken.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Reina has probably made 2/3 mistakes in the last 2 years.

Off the top of my head, that one where he punched Andy Johnson against Everton. Scooping Drogba's cross into the net against Chelsea in CL q-final (huge).

Granted only 2 off the top of my head but that Drogba one cost you a CL semi final place.

Actually, i dont even know why im putting Reina down, thats not the point im trying to make. Just that in Torres and Gerrard you have 2 players that walk into any side in the world. No exeptions. And Reina was said to be as important and that surprised me.

Stargate:

Once i was setting up a wall for a freekick and a bird flew over and i stumbled over thinking it was the ball.

I think Iker Casillas is the best goalkeeper in the world by a country mile.

Stargate

Mr Alan wrote: »

all great goalies are mental!

Reina has probably made 2/3 mistakes in the last 2 years.

You got there before me Alan lol

Mr Alan

ROCKMAN wrote: »

And not a hell of a lot after that , Think thats the point Hoddle was trying to make.

not taking the piss but look at the two benches,
Also someone has to break Utd and Chelsea grip , Liverpool have no given right to be the first to do it , Why can it not be Spurs or City (2very strong squads )

of course anyone can do it & Liverpool have no right to be the ones that do it.

but they are the most likely to do it at the moment & have already over-taken Chelsea as the second best team in England.

you say not a lot more?

wat about Mascherano?Aquilani?Riera?Johnson?Yossi?

people seem to think our squad is ****e cause of todays bench.

we were without Agger,Aquilani,Aurelio & Riera.

Them back in our squad are we are stong enough imo with the exception of up front where we are light.

Mental Mickey

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Really? I honestly (no wind-ups here im serious) think Reina is a very good keeper, but he occasionally comes up with moments of sheer lunacy that cost his team a match. To be up with the best, the Casillas', Buffons and J.Cesars of the world you need a consistency and presence that i dont think Reina has. Cech had it, but he lost it. Van Der Sar had it, but age got the better of him. I think Shay Given would have it if he wasnt Irish.

Stargate, i agree he was exellent today. Kept you in it. And as i said i rate him highly. Just not best in the world like Torres/Gerrard style.

My Liverpool supporting mates reffer to his as "Monk" as in the phsyco goalie from Mean Machine.

Torres is the best striker in the world imo.
Gerrard is arguabley the best midfielder in the world.
Reina would be behind a number of goalkeepers accross Europe.

Again this isnt a jibe at him, think he is great and no need for a change, but as a goalkeeper myself im shocked he is seen as important as Torres and Gerrard to you.

What does that bit mean? He"d have it if he wasn't Irish"? IMO, Given is a world-class keeper. It's a shame he became part of the footballing joke that is NUFC.

bUILDERtHEbOB

When in the last two seasons has Reina gone mental and cost us a goal?

Seriously, I can't think of any.

Mr Alan

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Off the top of my head, that one where he punched Andy Johnson against Everton.

that was 3 years ago!

Stargate

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Truer words never spoken.


Actually, i dont even know why im putting Reina down, thats not the point im trying to make. Just that in Torres and Gerrard you have 2 players that walk into any side in the world. No exeptions. And Reina was said to be as important and that surprised me.

fair point Mikey


I think Iker Casillas is the best goalkeeper in the world by a country mile.

Yea i like him too

Mikeyt086

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What does that bit mean? He"d have it if he wasn't Irish"? IMO, Given is a world-class keeper. It's a shame he became part of the footballing joke that is NUFC.

Because if Shay Given wasnt Irish, he would have the chance to prove himself at World and Euro Championships, also, he would not be protected by the likes of Kevin Kilbane and Paul McShane in recent years. Conceding 5 goals against Cyprus, although none his fault etc.

I know Shay is world class. I love him. But ask about him in Spain

GLaDOS

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

B Conceding 5 goals against Cyprus, although none his fault etc.

Paddy Kenny was in goal for that iirc

Running Bing

Mr Alan wrote: »

this argument is so stupid.

take Fabregas & Arshavin out of Arsenals team.
Rooney & ferdinand/vidic out of Utds team.

Chelseas "squad" is the best, there isn't much in the rest of the top 4.

None of those teams rely on those players to the same extent Pool rely on G&T.

For instance ManU lost Ronaldo during the summer....I still wouldnt bet against them for the title. If Liverpool had've lost Gerrard during the summer they would have no chance imo.

Mikeyt086

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Paddy Kenny was in goal for that iirc

Ah yes good memory. I was looking for an example as to Ireland slipping down in other countries estimations. Its hard to be recognised as a world class player when you come from a small nation.

Stargate

Running Bing wrote: »

None of those teams rely on those players to the same extent Pool rely on G&T.

For instance ManU lost Ronaldo during the summer....I still wouldnt bet against them for the title. If Liverpool had've lost Gerrard during the summer they would have no chance imo.

Tend to agree with most of that Running Bing , The thing i find myself ,is when watching Utd ,Chel$ki etc you have the feeling they ARE going to win their games ,but for our own games its rather in hope ,i know we came close to taking the title last year in spite of Stoke ,West ham results etxc ,but maybe with Agger / Alberto Aquilani / etc coming into the squad we will be stronger ,felt we missed Alonso in midfield today , and spurs are always strong enough at home , this year they have an excellent squad and maybe they willtrouble others in the top 5/6 cheers Running Bing ta Stargate

CR 7

Mr Alan wrote: »

all great goalies are mental!

Reina has probably made 2/3 mistakes in the last 2 years.

While the majority do seem to be a bit mad, the 2 regarded as being the current best, Casillas and Buffon aren't really crazy at all, and Given isn't either. Actually, as well as this, out of the top keepers in the Premier League, Given is the only one that isn't noted for making mistakes.

monkey9

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Ah yes good memory. I was looking for an example as to Ireland slipping down in other countries estimations. Its hard to be recognised as a world class player when you come from a small nation.

Ryan Giggs, Ian Rush, George Best to name but a few would disagree

BolBill

Words fail me. Lucas and Babel are not first 11. Alonso sourly missed. Gerrard looked uninterested

SlickRic

haven't read the thread, so i don't know what everyone else thought about today...

but congratulations Spurs. for the fact they outplayed us for the guts of 70 mins means they deserved it.

liverpool just did not get going in that first half. palacios and huddlestone overran lucas and a very subdued masch. modric was phenomenal. it was all worrying to say the least.

babel offered nothing, and if today tells us anything it was that benayoun has to start; probably even if riera is fit. when he came on he was the only one apart from Stevie willing to get on the ball and make something happen.

the voronin foul was a penalty, but it can't be used as an excuse. spurs deserved it. and i've seen them given and not given.

roll on stoke to put this out of the mind. 37 games to go; plenty of time so i hope nobody is going over the top yet.

and yes we did miss alonso. badly. but that's another debate.

Mikeyt086

monkey9 wrote: »

Ryan Giggs, Ian Rush, George Best to name but a few would disagree

Well no, because I didnt say it was impossible did I? I said it was hard.

If you ask Italian/Spanish/Brazilian/World-wide fans who they think are the worlds best keepers, Shay Given would not be mentioned. Not correct, but its the way it is.

Fromvert

Don't know why Given is being talked about but anyway, the only criticisms I have of him is that he that he stays on his line to much for set pieces and he can misjudge high balls.

rossie1977

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Well no, because I didnt say it was impossible did I? I said it was hard.

If you ask Italian/Spanish/Brazilian/World-wide fans who they think are the worlds best keepers, Shay Given would not be mentioned. Not correct, but its the way it is.

pat jennings was considered one if not the best keeper in the world during his time playing with northern ireland especially between 82 and 86

rossie1977

PHB wrote: »

Nope, we just laughed at what you claimed was maths

wasn't me dude, it was taken directly from the newspaper, maybe the journalists cannot add now

Mikeyt086

Fromvert wrote: »

Don't know why Given is being talked about but anyway, the only criticisms I have of him is that he that he stays on his line to much for set pieces and he can misjudge high balls.

Given is being talked about because i mentioned him as an example and i was then pulled up on it for belittling the man who is one of my heros. :rolleyes:

rossie1977 wrote: »

pat jennings was considered one if not the best keeper in the world during his time playing with northern ireland especially between 82 and 86

AGAIN, that is not my point.

George Weah was from Libiya wasnt he? I KNOW IT CAN hapen but as ive said, it is difficult when other nations cannot see you in World Cups for THEM to judge your potential.

Can that be the end of it please? Everyone took what i said totally out of context and its getting really off topic.

Stargate

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Given is being talked about because i mentioned him as an example and i was then pulled up on it for belittling the man who is one of my heros. :rolleyes:



AGAIN, that is not my point.

George Weah was from Libiya wasnt he? I KNOW IT CAN hapen but as ive said, it is difficult when other nations cannot see you in World Cups for THEM to judge your potential.

Can that be the end of it please? Everyone took what i said totally out of context and its getting really off topic.

In fairness to Mikey ,its he and i who were having a chat and a bit of banter re my comment that our ..... ...... ( Liverpool back bone ) Riena / Gerrard / Torres was solid , and i can see where the thread went , it wasnt meant to go the direction it took , if you understand me the discussion wasnt about shay Given lol

Mikeyt086

It also wasnt about how players from small countries cant be World Class lol.

On Topic: Spurs good, Liverpool bad.