Tottenham vs Liverpool FC

spockety

Well, it's been a few hours since the match now. Very disappointed the start the season like that, but it is just the start of the season. I won't write off a loss as being irrelevant or have no meaning, because as we know the standard is ridiculously high in the premier league, so this has just made our remaining 37 matches that bit harder or more important. But it is another 37 matches.

When I saw the line up, Babel stood out like a sore thumb. Everyone else was as I had predicted/hoped in a post during the week. Why did Babel start? He showed nothing in pre-season that justified it, and nothing towards the tail end of last season. Benayoun is an absolutely nailed on starter for me. Not just because it's an old problem of 'we have no one better', but because he is really bloody good, and has earned a starting place in our title challenging team on merit and ability. Rafa, please don't do that again.

Lucas has my full support. I hope he does really well whenever he is on the pitch. I didn't see anything from him today that resulted in our loss. He's being made a scapegoat because he is not world class. It's really sad/unfortunate the amount of Liverpool follower energy that is being spent discussing Lucas. Having said that, he is no replacement for Alonso, but I do not expect him to be. Xabi Alonso was a world class midfielder, who honed his skills/career over years more than Lucas has yet had.

We did not miss Alonso today. He is not ours to miss.

Today we missed Aquilani in our midfield. He is our 20m midfielder, Alonso is not. If the rest of the season is spent discussing how much we miss Alonso I will be really frustrated. Alonso wanted to leave Liverpool, he gave us 5 very good years of service, and we got an unreal transfer fee for him. Thanks Xabi, and best of luck.

I really hope more than anything that Aquilani will have the type of talent we need to unlock a match like todays (better link up play going forward, before Yossi came on), and before long will make redundant any remarks about "missing Alonso".

Well done to Spurs, they have a strong squad and were up for it big time. I don't think Liverpool will be the only top side to drop points there, so there are a few posters on here today who I think have words they may yet be eating before May.

Nalz

Reina is in the top 10 goalkeepers in the world. No question about that. Last two years has shown that imo

Defending was absolutely awful from Liverpool today.

spockety

Trilla wrote: »

Reina is in the top 10 goalkeepers in the world. No question about that. Last two years has shown that imo

Defending was absolutely awful from Liverpool today.

Well, Carra had 12 staples in his head and Skrtel looked to me like he obviously didn't recover from the clash for the whole duration of the match he was on the pitch. Very unfortunate that Agger wasn't available, I have no doubt one of them would have been pulled off immediately after that incident otherwise.

Stargate

spockety wrote: »

Well, Carra had 12 staples in his head and Skrtel looked to me like he obviously didn't recover from the clash for the whole duration of the match he was on the pitch. .

Kinda forgot that incident happened them both , in the heat of battle and roaring on the team , its afterwards we re-live the events of the game , blood and guts eh? Roll on the Stoke Game

rossie1977

ROCKMAN wrote: »

not taking the piss but look at the two benches,
Also someone has to break Utd and Chelsea grip , Liverpool have no given right to be the first to do it , Why can it not be Spurs or City (2very strong squads )

even without the likes of agger, reira, aurelio and aquilani, liverpool still had 3 players on the bench today with 140 international caps between them in fairness, one of those players is a regular starter for the world champs and the other is the captain of his country

spockety

rossie1977 wrote: »

even without the likes of agger, reira, aurelio and aquilani, liverpool still had 3 players on the bench today with 140 international caps between them in fairness, one of those players is a regular starter for the world champs and the other is the captain of his country

This is true, though you have to say with them in it looks a lot better/brighter for Liverpool fans.

Ideally it would be

Reina, Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Aquilani, Mascherano, Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres

Subs: Cavalieri, Insua, Agger, Lucas, Riera, Voronin, Ngog, and one of [Babel/Pacheco/Nemeth/Plessis/Spearing/Darby/Kelly]

Looks a lot better to me ;(

We were fúcking awful. Anyone that thinks Lucas call fill Xabi's boots is living in their own wet dream. We could not string passes together in midfield. Only positive was Johnson played well.

We deserved nothing from that.

mike65

Reina played well and Yossi.

Why Rafa didn't sub one of Carra or Skrtel beats me, they were clearly worse for the collision. Kelly wouldn't have been any worse and possibly better.

Gerrard/Masch for the next few games I think. Yossi behind Torres.

Stargate

mike65 wrote: »

Reina played well and Yossi.

Why Rafa didn't sub one of Carra or Skrtel beats me, they were clearly worse for the collisiopn. Kelly wouldn't have been any worse and possibly better.

Gerrard/Masch for the next few games I think. Yossi behind Torres.

Mike i wonder what if Carra or Skrtel cant be picked against Stoke ? Important game at home now and id go as far as to say maybe a must win game , 2 defeats not an option as a Winning the league start , what you reckon ? Drawing at home to Stoke, do you remember last year ??

noodler

Deleted User wrote: »

We were fúcking awful. Anyone that thinks Lucas call fill Xabi's boots is living in their own wet dream. We could not string passes together in midfield. Only positive was Johnson played well.

We deserved nothing from that.

See, the way I see it is that Johnson actually didn't play that well and that we shouldn't let one run fool us.

mike65

I'd sooner not think about it. Not yet.

jank

So is this Liverpool done for the season then?
There is always next year...

Headshot

RAGING Rafa Benitez claimed Liverpool were robbed by ref Phil Dowd at White Hart Lane.

The Reds crashed 2-1 to Spurs despite Steven Gerrard’s penalty on a weekend when all their Premier League title rivals won. But Benitez claimed Dowd missed TWO blatant spot-kicks – one for a foul on Andriy Voronin and one for a handball by Benoit Assou-Ekotto.

Asked what the Kop boss thought of Dowd’s performance, Benitez took out a pair of glasses and waved them around.

He said: “Everybody could see it was especially a penalty on Voronin. It was so clear. Unbelievable.

“With this referee, I knew another one was impossible.

“But we had a meeting the other day and we were told we can’t talk about the referee.”

Benitez was also furious with 26-year- old fourth official Stuart Attwell after he had Reds No.2 Sammy Lee sent from the bench to the stands in the dying stages for complaining.

He said: “The fourth official is a young referee and he needs to calm down a bit. He is too young.”

Attwell made headlines for awarding Reading a ‘ghost goal’ that never crossed the line against Watford in
September last year.

He also became the youngest man to referee a Premier League match when he took charge of Blackburn against Hull last August.

Liverpool’s first penalty shout came with four minutes left when Assou-Ekotto bundled substitute Voronin off the ball.

But Dowd waved away the appeals – as he did when Assou- Ekotto appeared to handle the ball in the
area moments later.

Tottenham boss Harry Redknapp said: “The first one that was given was a nailed-on pen. I didn’t see the
others as penalties.

“I thought Voronin had lost control of the ball and Benoit used his body to ease him off the ball. I couldn’t
see a pen there.”

Benitez warned Liverpool’s title rivals not to write his side off just yet. He said: “It’s too early. We were playing a good team and we needed to play well, but we didn’t.”

....

Holsten

He's right though.

jank

and it starts...

~Rebel~

rossie1977 wrote: »

wasn't me dude, it was taken directly from the newspaper, maybe the journalists cannot add now

i think you're missing the point. they're not laughing at the figures, but at what they represent, and their merit. Its a silly, argument, you cant just pluck 1 variable out and say that was the deciding factor. Obviously lots of those games we didn't win we were also without Gerrard and/or Torres, and any number of other factors.

If you look for them you will find these single figures all over the place, for instance when we have kitman A, we win 80% of the time, but when we have kitman B we only win 40% of the time. Does that mean that a change in kitman is the reason for the diminished win ratio? Of course not, and while Alonso was obviously a bigger factor then this, there are far too many other variables involved to even bother mentioning an argument like that without far greater study.

kida

haven't read thru the entire thread but regarding the penalties sometimes could be given but in no way were stonewall decisions. Carraghers push on Crouch which amazingly got no replays was the most blatant one. Spurs possibly also had a shout for handball again not replayed so can't really comment. But Crouches looked 100% a pen.

mada999

Mental Mickey wrote: »

How Benitez rates Voronin and N'Gog above Robbie Keane is beyond, me, and I'm sure a s**tload of other Liverpool fans...?

listen son, Keane got his chance at Liverpool and blew it...

mada999

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What does that bit mean? He"d have it if he wasn't Irish"? IMO, Given is a world-class keeper. It's a shame he became part of the footballing joke that is NUFC.

damn straight, Given is a world-class keeper....he's already made some great saves for City

_blank_

mada999 wrote: »

listen son

How to make friends and influence people....

Mr Alan

mada999 wrote: »

listen son, Keane got his chance at Liverpool and blew it...

I'd imagine if Rafa was offered 16m for Ngog or Voronin, he'd be biting their hand off.

the fact that they are there now & Keane is not, does not mean Rafa rates them higher.

mada999

whoops..did i type son? sorry

I'm glad we got rid of Keane...he just wasn't worth the cash..ngog will prob do a similar job..

my thoughts on the match..

Spurs were totally up for the match... they totally pulled together as a team, chased players down and got in the Liverpool's players faces. They are a very pacy team.

I thought we were lacking something in the center of Midfield. i thought mach and lucas were too close to each other a lot of the time and there was no space to make a pass to each other.. I thought lucas could have dropped a little deeper to receive the ball from our defenders like Alonso did. i think he'll get better though.

Some people might not like this but I'm a bit worried that Masch will be getting alot of the ball this season. His distribution is terrible and we are going to lose a lot possession because of it he's great at breaking play up and stuff but he can't pass to save his life.

Can't believe Babel was on the pitch. At least he tried a few tackles this game unlike in his other games. i still don't think he is good enough to be in the starting 11 and think he should concentrate on his rap career. Benayoun came on and made an instant impact. It's a pity he didn't start the match he looked really dangerous.

Gerrard and Torres were not at the races yesterday either... Thought Voronin should have got a penalty, think the ref let spurs away with a few things yesterday.... all in all spurs deserved their win....

Hopefully we can go on and beat Stoke now and get some points on the board


PS. - what was Carragher doing jumping into Skrtel ??

Sizzler

Apart from the fact Gerrard was present on the scoresheet it would have been hard to believe he was actually on the pitch.

Torres also missing in action for 90 mins.

Spurs had it down to a tee, worked their balls off in midfield and always seemed to have an extra man. Fully deserved win imho. Rafa looking for penos only acts as a distraction to what was effectively the worst league performance that Liverpool have put in for well over a season.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

but they are the most likely to do it at the moment & have already over-taken Chelsea as the second best team in England.

No they havn't.

Chelsea and United are still the 2 best teams in England.

To say otherwise is nonsense.

Mr Alan

League table doesn't lie boggles.

Isn't that the Utd fans motto?

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

League table doesn't lie boggles.

Isn't that the Utd fans motto?

After one game :eek:

jaykay74

Mr Alan wrote: »

League table doesn't lie boggles.

Isn't that the Utd fans motto?

Surely not Utd fans but all fans.

After 38 games you end up in the position that you deserve. In Liverpools case that was 2nd last year so they were the 2nd best team in England as you said.

Eire-Dearg

Last season, top two, Liverpool and Man Utd, two best teams...

noodler

Sizzler wrote: »

Apart from the fact Gerrard was present on the scoresheet it would have been hard to believe he was actually on the pitch.

Torres also missing in action for 90 mins.

Spurs had it down to a tee, worked their balls off in midfield and always seemed to have an extra man. Fully deserved win imho. Rafa looking for penos only acts as a distraction to what was effectively the worst league performance that Liverpool have put in for well over a season.

Boro away last season.

NabyLadistheman

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Last season, top two, Liverpool and Man Utd, two best teams...

No no your wrong apparently for some phantom reason Chelsea are second best all of a sudden

spockety

torresistheman wrote: »

No no your wrong apparently for some phantom reason Chelsea are second best all of a sudden

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

United fans love to big up other teams to annoy Liverpool fans.

Boggles

spockety wrote: »

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

United fans love to big up other teams to annoy Liverpool fans.

Not really, don't bother flattering yourself.

As a United fan if I had a choice to meet either Liverpool or Chelsea in a cup final, it would be Liverpool everytime.

Why, because Chelsea like United, have the better team, squad and manager!

Nothing personal, just FHACTS!

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Not really, don't bother flattering yourself.

As a United fan if I had a choice to meet either Liverpool or Chelsea in a cup final, it would be Liverpool everytime.

Why, because Chelsea like United, have the better team, squad and manager!

Nothing personal, just FHACTS!

i'd prefer to meet Utd in a final also.

is that proof that Chelsea are better than Utd?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd prefer to meet Utd in a final also.

is that proof that Chelsea are better than Utd?

It's your opinion, you can mean it whatever you want it to.

noodler

Come on Boggles you know I have alot of time for you but you would render the entire idea of a league pointless if you start telling us the team that finished third actually is better than the team that finished 2nd.

Boggles

noodler wrote: »

Come on Boggles you know I have alot of time for you but you would render the entire idea of a league pointless if you start telling us the team that finished third actually is better than the team that finished 2nd.

The point was made that Liverpool have in the here and now over taken Chelsea as the second best team in England.

I look at the teams, the squads and the managers, and it is all coming up Chelsea.

I wasn't really alluding to the league position last year. Liverpool finished 3 points ahead of Chelsea last season, you can't discount Chelseas cup win, and Champions League semi final appearance.

Chelsea what ever way you look at it were more successful than Liverpool last season, especially when you consider the shambles of the managerial appointments.

Best 2 teams in England today, which has relevance are United and Chelsea.

There isn't many that could argue or disagree with that.

Dublin_Gunner

Boggles wrote: »

Not really, don't bother flattering yourself.

As a United fan if I had a choice to meet either Liverpool or Chelsea in a cup final, it would be Liverpool everytime.

Why, because Chelsea like United, have the better team, squad and manager!

Nothing personal, just FHACTS!

Facts:

Prem 08/09
1. Man U
2. Liverpool
3. Chelsea

Fact:
Liv 2 - 1 Man

Fact
Che 0 - 1 Liv

Fact
Liv 2 - 0 Che

Fact
Man 1 - 4 Liv

Just some "FHACTS!" Boggles

noodler

As far as I am concerned we have bragging rights as 2nd best team in the country until the League finishes up in May.

I hate hearing people use cup competitions against us in this manner btw, after being told for years how progress is by chance and not reflective of true form when we do well.

Dublin_Gunner

noodler wrote: »

As far as I am concerned we have bragging rights as 2nd best team in the country until the League finishes up in May.

I hate hearing people use cup competitions against us in this manner btw, after being told for years how progress is by chance and not reflective of true form when we do well.

Especially considering the lambasting Liverpool got in 2001, despite winning FA Cup, League Cup & Uefa Cup..........

Boggles

:rolleyes:

Oh dear, that didn't take long. See ye later!

noodler

Boggles wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Oh dear, that didn't take long. See ye later!

Awwww not the rollie-eyes Bogs!

You're better than that!

Dublin_Gunner

Boggles wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Oh dear, that didn't take long. See ye later!

Bye!

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Headshot

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

how the mightly have fallen

mark renton

Lifelong Red and already I fear the worse - reminds me of previous seasons where we just didnt seem to have any cutting edge - the replacement of Alonso surely needed more thought, you certainly cannot win a league title in 6-8 weeks but you can lose it

Lucas and Mascherano cannot play in the same midfield, it removes the creative player, which IMO is where Stevie G should have been playing. When he did move there late in second half and Yossi was introduced then we looked like scoring - as long as the ball was not passed to Voronin


Unfortunately Rafa's stubborness may undo us for another year

Mr Alan

with the exception of one stupid cross, Voronin was decent when he came on.

Dublin_Gunner

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope - theres a massive difference about 'bragging' being second, and being annoyed at being rated 3rd behind Chelsea

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Dublin_Gunner

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not really, I would have thought my post above was quite positive.

It was stating facts, and I can't for the life of me claim that Liverpool are better than United, when they finished ahead of us in the league now, can I?

But I'll sure as hell have a good moan if someone tries to claim a team we beat twice in the league, and finished ahead of, are better.

John47832 - Voronin was actually pretty good when he came on - don't know what you're talking about there.

ntlbell

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Not really, I would have thought my post above was quite positive.

It was stating facts, and I can't for the life of me claim that Liverpool are better than United, when they finished ahead of us in the league now, can I?

But I'll sure as hell have a good moan if someone tries to claim a team we beat twice in the league, and finished ahead of, are better.

a lot of people fancy chelsea this year for the title

that doesn't mean they're better than united OR liverpool

if we look at squads liverpool's is probably the 4th best in the league

it would be something like

Chelsea.
United
Arsenal
Liverpool

and if leagues were deicded on squad streghts that's probably how it would end this year.

who are all these people saying liverpool are the 3rd best?

they're wrong! they're 4th.