Will the cops not just admit they have lost control ?

utick

leitrim lad wrote: »

and come on ,people being murdered in mayo, who ever heard the likes of it before, next they will be dealing crack in leitrim, and importing nuclear missilles in trough the docks in sligo,

there was also a garda stabbed in mayo a couple of weeks ago, and four more were stabbed in two incidents in mayo last night.
http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/four-injured-in-mayo-attacks-422783.html


also shots were fired at a car in galway last night http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0816/galway.html

seems to be getting crazy everywhere at the moment

Overheal

Quoting a superhero movie deflated your entire argument.

karlog

Overheal wrote: »

Quoting a superhero movie deflated your entire argument.

Not a fan of batman eh?

TheZohanS

leitrim lad wrote: »

i would say thats a once in a life time arrest, i know of a yard that was broken into and over 100ks worth of damage between theft and robbery, they came out 2 weeks later to examine it and said it would be hard to prove who did it, never bothered taking prints, and still havent arrested the culprit, 6 months on, the owner of the yard is at his wits end about it ,as the3 whole thing was caught on cctv, and the gardai have a copy of the tape,
they told him to take the lock off his gate and atleast next time he will still have a lock and gates,

what a pack of usless,usless, wasters,

From your posts one would think that you have a personal grudge against the Gardai.

The Gardai are not the justice system.

livingtargets

Let`s just get all the gangland criminals to dress up as travel agents.

Then they`d be quick enough to get rid of them!

leitrim lad

TheZohan wrote: »

From your posts one would think that you have a personal grudge against the Gardai.

The Gardai are not the justice system.

they may not be the system ,but they are employed by me and the private sector tax payer in this state to inforce the justice system in a mannerly way, not to go around with a chip on their shoulder just because johnny down the road has a new lorry or jeep, thats none of their business, but yet they think they can harass johnny down the road, out of their own begrudgery, which is unconstitutional, and against the law ,and against human rights, and european law,

which should put them in their place and let them go after the real criminals, who are behind the robberies, and drug/gun running, which is if im not mistaken their actual job, what i pay them a grand a week minimun take home for a guard to do.

and if i must also point out ,why would any one feel sorry for a member of the gardai that say got assualted, they are going to put in a massive compo claim against my taxes to the state, and get paid to let on their hand is sore for about 18 months ,before returning to tea drinking duty on full salary again, you tell me thats right,

i was nearly killed on friday when the tail door of my own lorry came down on top of me ,and im suffering from blackouts since, after having scans and the whole lot, but im not looking for pity, i was back on the beat on saturday morning and will be in the morning, if i wasnt no one from leinbster house is going to send me a massive payment for my troubles, but i have to send them massive payments every year for the privelage of harassment by a bunch tea drinking begrudging wasters who wouldnt know hard work if it tracked across them

El Weirdo

leitrim lad wrote: »

i was nearly killed on friday when the tail door of my own lorry came down on top of me ,and im suffering from blackouts since, after having scans and the whole lot, but im not looking for pity, i was back on the beat on saturday morning and will be in the morning, if i wasnt no one from leinbster house is going to send me a massive payment for my troubles, but i have to send them massive payments every year for the privelage of harassment by a bunch tea drinking begrudging wasters who wouldnt know hard work if it tracked across them

I hope I don't meet you on the road tomorrow morning.

leitrim lad

el_weirdo wrote: »

I hope I don't meet you on the road tomorrow morning.

no im bound to the yard and office duty for the next few weeks,unfortunately

Mr Jinx

leitrim lad wrote: »

they may not be the system ,but they are employed by me and the private sector tax payer in this state to inforce the justice system in a mannerly way, not to go around with a chip on their shoulder just because johnny down the road has a new lorry or jeep, thats none of their business, but yet they think they can harass johnny down the road, out of their own begrudgery, which is unconstitutional, and against the law ,and against human rights, and european law,

which should put them in their place and let them go after the real criminals, who are behind the robberies, and drug/gun running, which is if im not mistaken their actual job, what i pay them a grand a week minimun take home for a guard to do.

and if i must also point out ,why would any one feel sorry for a member of the gardai that say got assualted, they are going to put in a massive compo claim against my taxes to the state, and get paid to let on their hand is sore for about 18 months ,before returning to tea drinking duty on full salary again, you tell me thats right,

i was nearly killed on friday when the tail door of my own lorry came down on top of me ,and im suffering from blackouts since, after having scans and the whole lot, but im not looking for pity, i was back on the beat on saturday morning and will be in the morning, if i wasnt no one from leinbster house is going to send me a massive payment for my troubles, but i have to send them massive payments every year for the privelage of harassment by a bunch tea drinking begrudging wasters who wouldnt know hard work if it tracked across them

Sounds like you who has the chip on his shoulders. Sure maybe a small minority of Gardai let down the rest but you cant tar them all. That would be like me saying all lorry drivers are pricks and should be banned from the road because of what iv seen some of them do on the road.

Nodin

TheZohan wrote: »

How the hell do you expect the Gardai to stop some idiot from stabbing someone in a private house at 4.30am?

Shut up you, with your questions. Get a torch and get in the mob with the others.

oppenheimer1

Ally Dick wrote: »

I am sick and tired of this country's lawlessness. Another stabbing in Bray last night. The murders and crimes are racking up at an alarming rate. The gardai seem to be totally ineffectual in dealing with the situation. For the love of God, will they not just admit that they have lost control ? It's only with a formal admission of helplessness that we can move on and establish a proper police force. It seems to me that the bulk of the gardai are in place because of nepotism. Why don't we get John Timoney over from New York and pay him a bundle to implement zero tolerance over here ? That's what is needed I'm afraid.

Have you personally been a victim of crime recently? I've been walking around Dublin today and I don't feel particularly unsafe. The country isn't entirely lawless you know

Calibos

Just in case anyone is unaware. The incident in Bray wasn't a gang of scumbags or anything like that. Respectable area and very respectable family by all accounts.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0816/bray.html

Riamfada

Have the Gardai ever had control of Bray?

utick

Calibos wrote: »

Just in case anyone is unaware. The incident in Bray wasn't a gang of scumbags or anything like that. Respectable area and very respectable family by all accounts.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0816/bray.html

Its ok to stab people if you come from a respectable family in a repectable area? Im really confused by your logic.

karlog

utick wrote: »

Its ok to stab people if you come from a respectable family in a repectable area? Im really confused by your logic.

He must mean its surprising that it happened from a respectable family in a respectable area. I dont think anything was mentioned about it being ok.

robbie_998

this seems kind of point less to me

gardi cant predict when a stabbing or robbery is going to happen

their not fortune tellers ... all they can do is their best which is try to catch the baddies in the act or afterwards and put them away for a long time

Paulzx

leitrim lad wrote: »

out of their own begrudgery, which is unconstitutional, and against the law ,and against human rights, and european law,

Jaysus!! Begrudgery is unconstitutional now. And its breaking the law. And its against me bleedin human rights.
Lock up half the country:D

Calibos

utick wrote: »

Its ok to stab people if you come from a respectable family in a repectable area? Im really confused by your logic.

karlog wrote: »

He must mean its surprising that it happened from a respectable family in a respectable area. I dont think anything was mentioned about it being ok.

Jaysus, do I have to explain it.

Thread imediately went off on a tangent about the collapse of Irish Society, roaming gangs of scumbags and why are the Gardai doing nothing. I was merely pointing out that the Murder in the town mentioned by the OP was not a scumbag stabbing incident like those in Mayo but that all the people involved in the Bray incident were respectable, from respectable area in the town and that it was more of a domestic and the act of someone with Mental issues rather than a gang of trackie wearing scummers stabbing someone in the street.

ie. From reading the rte piece it seems like one of the dead lads trusted the other dead guy enough to get a lift home from the pub with him. Word is it was sisters ex. Arguement insues, guy 1 fatally stabbed, calls for brothers help who was in bed, him and the sister come out, also get stabbed(non fatally) and presumably brother who came to his brothers aid, fatally stabbed attacker in self defence. ie respectable guy not carrying a knife around like a scumbag but running to kitchen to grab one to defend himself or using knife on attacker after disarming him. Can't say I could blame him after seeing his brother killed. That said, mental issues must be involved with initial attacker and it is very tragic for both families.

I do not know the families personally or the details. I am just guessing the above scenario from the description on the RTE site.

kazza90210

I know the people involed in the bray attack it was not some scumbags and no one could known it would happen, It is very tragic for me and my friends and the families involved so I would appreciate it not to be talked about when you guys dont know the full details involved.

Thank you

Overheal

karlog wrote: »

Not a fan of batman eh?

Not a fan of arguments that rely on veiled hollywood insight :rolleyes:

Other than that Batman was ****ing brilliant.

Volvoboy

Everyone knows where it happens 123 Fake St.

Executive Steve

Overheal wrote: »

Still though - do you think Dublin might be better served by a londonesque CCTV system?

Interestingly enough, the UK government just did a comprehensive cot/benefit analysis of cctv and it's efect on crime rates, and it concluded that spending the same money on improved street lighting would have had a far greater impact on crime rates. CCTV was judged to only be effective in reducing crime rates in the cases of multi-story car parks.

Executive Steve

utick wrote: »

Its ok to stab people if you come from a respectable family in a repectable area? Im really confused by your logic.

This is boards.ie after all...

Executive Steve

karlog wrote: »

The rise in crime should prompt the justice system to examine its policies for convicting criminal's.

We should adopt some of the American law's. For e.g the "three strikes and you're out law" which charges you with a mandatory life sentence for conviction on three petty crimes. By petty i mean assault, burglary etc. Or something like two violent assaults causing serious bodily harm should be punished with sentences ranging from lets say 7 to 20 years, with no more than 15% sentence reduction for good behaviour.

Criminal's thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding - As is quoted in Batman begins:D. Which makes me think, whats wrong with vigilantism if our sentencing is too lenient on criminals?

Yeah, it's REALLY working for the Americans, isn't it?

Overheal

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the UK government just did a comprehensive cot/benefit analysis of cctv and it's efect on crime rates, and it concluded that spending the same money on improved street lighting would have had a far greater impact on crime rates. CCTV was judged to only be effective in reducing crime rates in the cases of multi-story car parks.

Interesting. But what about crime resolution? For example traffic related crimes will happen regardless. But, if you have a CCTV system in place to mark license plates, Hit and Run drivers become not so anonymous anymore. Maybe they arent as effective as they should be at stopping people from committing crimes but im sure theyve provided key evidence in more than a few cases, Id wager.

Executive Steve

irish_bob wrote: »

thats right , its societys fault that some people are mindless thugs , personal responsibility is the ultimate dirty word of the left

Not at all, really... But individual notions of personal responsibility towards the community tend to be conspicuously absent from the rhetoric of those who keep harping on about "the left"; and the idea that there is a responsibility on behalf of the community to prevent mindless thuggery before it happens is anathema - far more fun to bring back flogging!!!

Executive Steve

Overheal wrote: »

Interesting. But what about crime resolution? For example traffic related crimes will happen regardless. But, if you have a CCTV system in place to mark license plates, Hit and Run drivers become not so anonymous anymore.

AFAICR the study dealt with cameras in urban environments, and deliberately didn't cover traffic offences (which have their own minefield of issues associated with them, although as a lifelong non-driver it's not something I've read much about).

You Suck!

Keep voting for criminals and you'll get a society for criminals.

Ally Dick

Little apples grow quickly into an orchard. If the lazy cops are sitting in police stations everywhere playing darts and eating doughnuts, and not bothering to patrol areas, very quickly those areas become flashpoints for criminality. It starts with graffiti and litter, it then turns to knacker drinking on the road and in the parks. It then turns to little f@ckers doing doughnuts in skangered bangers around the housing estates, then come the drugs and the murders. If the cops showed a high presence around the place and bothered to PRO-ACTIVELY police areas, these problems wouldn't start happening.

walshb

Ally Dick wrote: »

I am sick and tired of this country's lawlessness. Another stabbing in Bray last night. The murders and crimes are racking up at an alarming rate. The gardai seem to be totally ineffectual in dealing with the situation. For the love of God, will they not just admit that they have lost control ? It's only with a formal admission of helplessness that we can move on and establish a proper police force. It seems to me that the bulk of the gardai are in place because of nepotism. Why don't we get John Timoney over from New York and pay him a bundle to implement zero tolerance over here ? That's what is needed I'm afraid.

Just on the Bray slaughter; I don't think there is a damn thing anyone could have done in this case. It was a spur of the moment insane attack.

As for general crime and lawlessness, yes, we do need major improvements across the board.

Ally Dick

walshb wrote: »

Just on the Bray slaughter; I don't think there is a damn thing anyone could have done in this case. It was a spur of the moment insane attack.

You don't know Bray then....

Samba

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud stop blaming the Gardai for crime and point the finger in the right direction....parents.

I was raised correctly by my parents and I know the difference between right and wrong. I am self-disciplined and never allow myself to lose control due to alcohol or peer pressure. And I don't use illegal substances either. For these reasons, I don't go around stealing, murdering, raping etc.

One of the biggest problems in the world is that someone forgot to write a manual on raising kids correctly and force all parents to read/learn it and then take an exam on it.

There are more laws to protect society from bad drivers than from bad parents...and look at the poor quality of the drivers on the road!!! Scary :eek:

You're welcome.

walshb

Ally Dick wrote: »

You don't know Bray then....

So, are you saying that this crime was preventable?
If so, how exactly?

major bill

el_weirdo wrote: »

What are we blaming money for now? People have got to stop reading the Mail/Sunday World/Sun/Star and listening to Liveline without questioning what they're reading/hearing.

Sensationalist drivel to say the very least. If all you are reading about is this perceived lawlessness, then you start to believe that it is true.

i don't read,watch listen to any of that ****e. this is my own opinion. there was crime before the celtic tiger i know but lets face it irelands turned into a greedy country full of dickheads.this country has changed immigration can partly be blamed as well. and before you write no i dont live in some well of suburb either.

Snakeblood

Ally Dick wrote: »

I am sick and tired of this country's lawlessness. Another stabbing in Bray last night. The murders and crimes are racking up at an alarming rate. The gardai seem to be totally ineffectual in dealing with the situation. For the love of God, will they not just admit that they have lost control ? It's only with a formal admission of helplessness that we can move on and establish a proper police force. It seems to me that the bulk of the gardai are in place because of nepotism. Why don't we get John Timoney over from New York and pay him a bundle to implement zero tolerance over here ? That's what is needed I'm afraid.

What could the gardai have done to prevent a stabbing in a private house?

Ally Dick

Snakeblood wrote: »

What could the gardai have done to prevent a stabbing in a private house?

Plenty. They could try patrolling the place a bit. They could adopt a zero tolerance policy to street drunkeness and to drug taking. Little apples soon turn into an orchard. If the cops got the basic policing right, things like this would never happen. Eh, one of the assailants was driving a car at 4.30am. What are the chances he was sober ? Nil. The cops need to sharpen up their act.

major bill

in fairness theres no way the garda could do anything about the bray incident, just read about it there, thoughts are with the family.

on the issue with the gaurds. i dont think anyone respects them anymore, they do nothing but annoy and harash people for stupid things.ive had a bad experience with them and will never have any respect for them again. there are good gaurds out there but alot of them are scumbags.

and now they have to right to use pepper spray:eek:

Snakeblood

Ally Dick wrote: »

Plenty. They could try patrolling the place a bit. They could adopt a zero tolerance policy to street drunkeness and to drug taking. Little apples soon turn into an orchard. If the cops got the basic policing right, things like this would never happen. Eh, one of the assailants was driving a car at 4.30am. What are the chances he was sober ? Nil. The cops need to sharpen up their act.

Just because you're never sober at 4.30am doesn't mean no one else is, dude.

Irish Trinity

id say its a lack of force really...criminals have it too easy its more like a little challenge for them really. I would say give the guards guns. or some form of semi lethal weapon. Nobodys a hard man with a 9mm in there face.

leitrim lad

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Sounds like you who has the chip on his shoulders. Sure maybe a small minority of Gardai let down the rest but you cant tar them all. That would be like me saying all lorry drivers are pricks and should be banned from the road because of what iv seen some of them do on the road.

atleast lorry drivers earn their salary, excluding the smugglers, gardai, simply have an attitude problem and thats that, the entire public sector is one big attitude problem, what right have they got to take my money, and get paid to drink tea, all day, and then go on strike when they are asked to do an honest days work,

another thing why should gardai get an ALLOWANCE, for anything, let alone an ALLOWANCE for not having anything to claim for,

this is not right and dont try and tell me it is

twanda

I lost all faith in the guards last January, when my little sister narrowly escaped being abducted in broad daylight by two men in a van, not far from our house. The poor girl was in an awful state. The guards were called straight away but took hours to appear. They spoke to my sister for a half hour then said they would follow up. My father gave them the reg number of a van that he had noticed hanging round the area prior to the incident.
Fast forward two weeks and no word from the guards. My father called into the local station to speak to the seargent. He was actually annoyed at my father for having told the neighbours (on the day it happened my father warned any of our neighbours with kids or teenagers to be on their guard). Then the seargent said he needed to send out another guard to take a statement. When asked what happened to the first statement the guards took, the answer was they ''only took a few notes''. My father AGAIN had to give the reg no. of the van he had seen. That was end Jan/start Feb and no guarda has come out to get a statement since. It sickens me. No wonder we're still looking for Ireland's missing women. I hope to God those men don't strike again. The next girl might not be so lucky.

TheZohanS

twanda wrote: »

I lost all faith in the guards last January, when my little sister narrowly escaped being abducted in broad daylight by two men in a van, not far from our house. The poor girl was in an awful state. The guards were called straight away but took hours to appear. They spoke to my sister for a half hour then said they would follow up. My father gave them the reg number of a van that he had noticed hanging round the area prior to the incident.
Fast forward two weeks and no word from the guards. My father called into the local station to speak to the seargent. He was actually annoyed at my father for having told the neighbours (on the day it happened my father warned any of our neighbours with kids or teenagers to be on their guard). Then the seargent said he needed to send out another guard to take a statement. When asked what happened to the first statement the guards took, the answer was they ''only took a few notes''. My father AGAIN had to give the reg no. of the van he had seen. That was end Jan/start Feb and no guarda has come out to get a statement since. It sickens me. No wonder we're still looking for Ireland's missing women. I hope to God those men don't strike again. The next girl might not be so lucky.

IF what you said is true you need to get your dad to ring the Superintendent straight away and organize a meeting with him.

Sofiztikated

Leitrim lad, would you like some salt and vinegar for that chip?

Jesus. All the Gardi are out to get you. And if they're not, they're drinking tea and eating donuts, obviously.

pebbles21

A few weeks ago i heard noises in my back garden, there were two lads at my shed, so i rang the local garda station and told them, they said they would send someone down straight away.

Two hours later no sign of guards i rang them back and told them that i rang earlier about intruders in the garden, and not to worry about it anymore as i shot them !

Two minutes later there was four squad cars, a garda van and the garda helicopter was hovering over my house

They wernt impressed! a garda said" i thought you said you shot someone!! "

I said" i thought you said you would send someone straight away!"

Kernel

leitrim lad wrote: »

which should put them in their place and let them go after the real criminals, who are behind the robberies, and drug/gun running, which is if im not mistaken their actual job, what i pay them a grand a week minimun take home for a guard to do.

They don't go after robbers and drug dealers already so? BTW, our tax money pays for a lot more than Guards, there's also doctors, nurses, teachers, a myriad of public service jobs and social welfare to name but a few. Your tax contributions towards the Gardaí is probably a few cents or euro a week, so it's not like you're really paying them. Oh and that's nonsense about a guard getting paid a grand a week take home minimum. :rolleyes: Thanks for the laughs though.

Anyone who thinks guards are overpaid doesn't understand a) what they are actually paid, b) what hours they do, or c) what risks they take as well as all the other chucklish parts of the job such as dealing with suicides, sudden deaths, HIV infected junkies etc. etc.

Yakult

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Yes, because the Gardai are able to predict that scumbags are going to get drunk and stab someone. They turn up just before the crime happens !!:rolleyes:

ever hear of minority report?

irish_bob

Kernel wrote: »

They don't go after robbers and drug dealers already so? BTW, our tax money pays for a lot more than Guards, there's also doctors, nurses, teachers, a myriad of public service jobs and social welfare to name but a few. Your tax contributions towards the Gardaí is probably a few cents or euro a week, so it's not like you're really paying them. Oh and that's nonsense about a guard getting paid a grand a week take home minimum. :rolleyes: Thanks for the laughs though.

Anyone who thinks guards are overpaid doesn't understand a) what they are actually paid, b) what hours they do, or c) what risks they take as well as all the other chucklish parts of the job such as dealing with suicides, sudden deaths, HIV infected junkies etc. etc.

the average income for a garda is 1200 a week , thats across the board but thier is only one commisioner

p.s
thats before taking into account any over time

johnnyskeleton

Biggins wrote: »

The law is an ass and they know it more so.

A LOT of the present Gardi are VERY disillusioned and dis-heartened.
* They see scum in the courts every day only to be let off with lite slaps on the wrist, told "never to sin again"
* They are political fodder for the parties!
* They are moving, easy to pick on targets for those that want a quick answer to why there is so much crime! (Blame them, they mustn't be doing their job! :rolleyes: )

Who is the easy to pick on target again - the cops or the courts? To be honest, more confidence in the system is eroded by people like you making generalised ill informed statements about the law being an ass and scum being let off than is done by any unduly lenient sentence.

Kernel

irish_bob wrote: »

the average income for a garda is 1200 a week , thats across the board but thier is only one commisioner

p.s
thats before taking into account any over time

That's not the average income for a garda, that's the average income for a member of An Garda Síochána counting all ranks and lengths of service. I don't know how people believe such nonsense as a Garda gets €1000 per week after tax!

Wertz

irish_bob wrote: »

the average income for a garda is 1200 a week , thats across the board but thier is only one commisioner

p.s
thats before taking into account any over time

I've heard basic pay figures for low ranking uniform gardaí that were lower than the average industrial wage after tax and the pension levy is applied. Don't know how accurate that is, but I'd be fairly positive it's more realistic than a grand a week after tax.
Those same low ranked uniforms arguably have most of the worst aspects of the job to deal with too...