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Dissident republicans and Sinn Fein

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  • 16-08-2009 4:41pm
    #1
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭


    I am curious...what position do dissident republicans put sinn fein in?
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?


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    #2
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Hard to tell......if SF disassociated themselves from them, then fair enough, but when key members go out of their way to be associated with them, then it placates the extremists but disgusts the general public.


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    #3
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    well sinn fein has already brought an end to the provisionals. they hardly have connections with dissidents? that would be dangerous for the peace process


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    #4
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Hard to tell......if SF disassociated themselves from them, then fair enough, but when key members go out of their way to be associated with them, then it placates the extremists but disgusts the general public.

    Proof?

    McGuinness labelled the dissidents as traitors and the dissidents are thinking vice versa, no love lost there.


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    #5
    thelastditch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭thelastditch


    mega man wrote: »
    I am curious...what position do dissident republicans put sinn fein in?
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?

    Either Unionists or Nationalists can presumably pull down power sharing anytime they like. Obviously the greater IRA 'dissident' activity the greater pressure would be put on Unionists by their own support base to collapse the assembly. You see, many rank and file Unionists make no distinction between SF and 'dissident' groups. On the flip side, the more aggressive SF are towards 'dissident' activity (by word and deed), the more likely Unionists are to resist grass root pressure.


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    #6
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Sinn fein dont have any connections with dissidents. its not because they dont want to its because dissidents dont see them as being republician. The stange thing is gerry adams has always welcomed them because afik he realises if pockets like this dont talk it will lead to problems.

    The real joke i think is when you see a current member of sinn fein talking to someone from RSF. The reporters sell it as a scandle and a sell out and a turning. But considering there ideology is simular its a bit like a fianna fail member and a fianna gael member talking granted finna gael might hate fianna fail but they still talk.

    The true mistake that the dissidents make is that they are alienating themselves from everyone.Repunlicians and unionist. They make the mistake to claim that if you dont support them then your not republician. Will stuff you to sunshine:) They are attempting to alienate sinn fein from its base. Will this happen i doubt it. That is why the dissidents hate sinn fein so much they will never get any further than dissidents once sinn fein still exist in its current format.


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    #7
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    gurramok wrote: »
    Proof?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055641278

    If it's against that make-up-your-own-rules "Green Book", then it must qualify as dissident.


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    #8
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    but does each of there causes not benefit one another.


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    #9
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055641278

    If it's against that make-up-your-own-rules "Green Book", then it must qualify as dissident.

    Huh? Explain that one please. We're talking about dissident republican activity up north from the likes of RIRA, CIRA etc.


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    #10
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055641278

    If it's against that make-up-your-own-rules "Green Book", then it must qualify as dissident.

    And we off...... Whats this got to do with dissident activity. If you forgive me I am not reading through pages and pages of a stupid thread on matin ferris and his meeting


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    #11
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    I would like to draw your attention to the old republican expression, by ballot box or by gun our day will come. now that sinn fein are indepndent from miliantism what is stopping republicanism from taking this course. this is what stopped sinn fein in the past


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    #12
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    mega man wrote: »
    I am curious...what position do dissident republicans put sinn fein in?
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?
    mega man wrote: »
    I would like to draw your attention to the old republican expression, by ballot box or by gun our day will come. now that sinn fein are indepndent from miliantism what is stopping republicanism from taking this course. this is what stopped sinn fein in the past

    You seem to be rambleing a fair bit why dont you bluntly come out with a question rather than skirting. You have now said 2 different things in the one thread.

    afik you are taring " a republician" as being something in particualr. May i ask your Modus operandi ans where you are going with this?

    I detect the smell of buring in the air!


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    #13
    thelastditch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭thelastditch


    mega man wrote: »
    I would like to draw your attention to the old republican expression, by ballot box or by gun our day will come. now that sinn fein are indepndent from miliantism what is stopping republicanism from taking this course. this is what stopped sinn fein in the past

    There's absolutely no way the assembly could survive a sustained and effective 'dissident' campaign. Unionists would pull out under grass roots pressure or be replaced.


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    #14
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    I am just curious where republicanism is going as a whole. both dissident and peace loving


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    #15
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    thelastditch wrote: »
    There's absolutely no way the assembly could survive a sustained and effective 'dissident' campaign. Unionists would pull out under grass roots pressure or be replaced.

    what gounds would the unionists have on pulling out of government with a party that condemns actions of such groups?


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    #16
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    mega man wrote: »
    I am curious...what position do dissident republicans put sinn fein in?
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?
    In Derry, there have been many attacks on Sinn Féin offices and indeed the houses of Sinn Féin members, allegedly by members of 'dissident' republican groups. In the Bogside, I saw 'SF your the trades' (presumably meaning Sinn Féin you're the traitors) daubed on walls and even when Sinn Féin welcomed the PSNI, there was grafitti saying 'SF/RUC OUT'. I think it's clear that an element within Irish republicanism feels that Sinn Féin has sold out to the British.

    I don't think unionists have any excuse to pull out of power sharing with Sinn Féin at all, especially with how Sinn Féin have handled the actions of splinter republican groups. If it was the 32CSM or RSF that unionists were sharing power with, then yes, they could justifiably pull out. In any case, what would be achieved if unionist 'pulled out' of power sharing?

    I really hope this doesn't descend into ridiculous debate, with allegations, condemnation and unfounded claims.


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    #17
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    mega man wrote: »
    I am curious...what position do dissident republicans put sinn fein in?
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?
    mega man wrote: »
    I am just curious where republicanism is going as a whole. both dissident and peace loving


    again thats not what you said. I seriously suspect you have no interest in political discussion by rather to stirr the usual conflict between those who are republician and those who are not.

    There is no discussion as of yet to be had in this thread. But its good to see the usual kicking off straight away, Perhaps "Republicians" will leave this thread and let it die the death it deserves!


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    #18
    thelastditch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭thelastditch


    mega man wrote: »
    what gounds would the unionists have on pulling out of government with a party that condemns actions of such groups?

    I don't think they'd need any grounds. But if The UK government asked them why, I assume they'd claim there was no longer grass roots support amongst Unionists for assembly participation. If The UK government didn't believe them (which they would), they'd all resign their seats and put themselves forward again as abstentionist Unionists and prove it. Or something along those lines.

    And yes, this does mean that 'dissident' Republicans can potentially destroy power sharing if they became strong enough.


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    #19
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    Joey the lips wrote: »
    again thats not what you said. I seriously suspect you have no interest in political discussion by rather to stirr the usual conflict between those who are republician and those who are not.

    There is no discussion as of yet to be had in this thread. But its good to see the usual kicking off straight away, Perhaps "Republicians" will leave this thread and let it die the death it deserves!

    Rubbish!


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    #20
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    mega man wrote: »
    Rubbish!

    The thread yes i agree!


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    #21
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    Joey the lips wrote: »
    The thread yes i agree!

    If you have issues with republicanism take it up somewhere else. This is a a discussion of where republicanism is going as a whole.


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    #22
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    SF does not associate with dissident groups, and visa versa. If a group does not support the Good Friday Agreement, then there is no foundation for which they can work on.

    It's not a matter of dissident and non-dissident. It's a matter of pro-GFA and anti-GFA. Dissident in itself has no meaning.


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    #23
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    mega man wrote: »
    If you have issues with republicanism take it up somewhere else. This is a a discussion of where republicanism is going as a whole.

    I have no issues in fact i am the opposite. But as i pointed out you clearly do. Especially in the fact that you dont understand how to seperate a republician and sinn fein. Everyone can be a republician but they dont have to be in sinn fein!
    dlofnep wrote: »
    SF does not associate with dissident groups, and visa versa. If a group does not support the Good Friday Agreement, then there is no foundation for which they can work on.

    It's not a matter of dissident and non-dissident. It's a matter of pro-GFA and anti-GFA. Dissident in itself has no meaning.
    He missed this point i think. Or did he!


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    #24
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Here is your orginal question:
    mega man wrote:
    Have Unionists any excuse to pull out of power sharing with sinn fein because of the actions of dissident republicans?

    Now, why would the likes of SF who have about 26% of the vote and 61% of the nationalist vote be penalised by a few dissidents who have less than 1% of the vote??

    If the dissidents had the same voting power as SF, then we may worry but they do not.


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    #25
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    gurramok wrote: »
    Here is your orginal question:


    Now, why would the likes of SF who have about 26% of the vote and 61% of the nationalist vote be penalised by a few dissidents who have less than 1% of the vote??

    If the dissidents had the same voting power as SF, then we may worry but they do not.

    to my knowlege dissidents dont run for parliament


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    #26
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    mega man wrote: »
    to my knowlege dissidents dont run for parliament

    They don't, but they do take votes away from SF - albeit, not a large sum.


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    #27
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    so as long as they remain combatants they wont split the republican vote


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    #28
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    mega man wrote: »
    so as long as they remain combatants they wont split the republican vote

    They are splitting the Republican vote - but the votes for Dissidents are void votes, as they are not used. Dissidents have strongholds with a decent support base but based in concentrated areas, like parts of Derry. But in an overall context, their support base doesn't count for much across the Island, or even in the north. It will be interesting to see the results of the next elections to see if SF continues to rise (which I assume it will).


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    #29
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    gurramok wrote: »
    Huh? Explain that one please. We're talking about dissident republican activity up north from the likes of RIRA, CIRA etc.

    There's ABSOLUTELY no mention in the OP's post about "activity up north".


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    #30
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    There's ABSOLUTELY no mention in the OP's post about "activity up north".

    He did say Unionists and there are no Unionist political representation down 'South'


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    #31
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    There's ABSOLUTELY no mention in the OP's post about "activity up north".

    The men who killed McCabe were not dissidents. You should probably educate yourself about the different groups to be honest. The real divide in Republicanism came in 1998, McCabe's killing was in 1996. The GFA is the divide within Republicanism that stpulates dissidents and non-dissidents, and while there have been divides on specific issues - like 1970 and 1986 - the the term dissident is typically only used to describe anti-GFA Republicans.

    So you were incorrect with your original post. So just to clarify - SF does not work with dissident republicans, and their ideologies differ to much to work on anything. SF is embedded in the peace process and wants to work on a path of politics, while dissident republicans believe in armed resistance.


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