The 'No the Nama' Street Protest on 12th Sept

Count Dooku

happyfriday74 wrote: »

The organisation is supposed to operate like a bank and work out these loans that can we worked with and liquidate the developers who are hopeless cases.

The organization will provide cash for banks to allow big depositors run away from Irish banks into destinations that are more attractive.
There is no way that 60 Bn will be invested into Ireland without property bubble. It means that banks don’t need so much cash, but they desperately want money.
Question.
Why?

leonardjos

All the necessary arrangements have been made for the protest march tomorrow. There have been meetings with the Gardai, and stewards and a PA system have been organised. The media have been alerted, and it seems they will send somebody to have a look at the start of the march. If the numbers of people are sufficient, they will send news crews to cover it.

We are expecting thousands at the march, although we will not know for sure how much until tomorrow. It seems as though it will be somewhere in the broad range of 2,000 to 10,000. So if you want to send a strong message of disapproval to the government, then make sure to get yourself to the march tomorrow. The last 24 hours are crucial, tell a friend or family member and bring them along to the march too.

Now is our chance to make the voice of the people of Ireland heard, before it is too late :mad:


'No to NAMA' protest march details: Gather from 1pm on Saturday 12th Sept at the Garden of Remembrance at the top of O'Connell St. March starts at 2pm towards the Dail. More details on the Facebook Group page, where we now have almost 10,000 members. The protest is being organised by the newly formed Irish Peoples Union who are not a political party or affiliated to any political party.

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teletext today 50,000 expected to attend

bauderline

RTE News...

"Several hundred people are taking part in a rally against NAMA in Dublin city centre this afternoon...."

RTE propaganda or is it a bit of damp firework?

Kama

50,000 it was not. 500 would have been closer to the attendence.

Majority of the signs seemed to say Lisbon on them, I thought I might have gone to the wrong demo

roosterman71

Beckham Glamorous Carpet wrote: »

teletext today 50,000 expected to attend

Looks like this wasn't as much interest to the people as has been made out on this thread
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0912/banks.html

Kama

Mmhmm...but isn't the Nama protesting split?

There's plenty of anti-Nama's who wouldn't be seen dead next to a Swippy yelling through his microphone...

This was the Irish Peoples Union, and for a first demonstration by a new group 500 isn't that bad a turnout.

Kama

Kama wrote: »

Mmhmm...but isn't the Nama protesting split?

There's plenty of anti-Nama's who wouldn't be seen dead next to a Swippy yelling through his microphone...

This was the Irish Peoples Union, and for a first demonstration by a new group 500 isn't that bad a turnout.

I'd say it would have been closer to about 1.5k people tbh. I took a fair bit of footage that I'll try get through later tonight or tomorrow.

The plan of action is the get far more people next time, and the time after that, and the time after that. Consistant and ever larger protests until the government get the message.

MikeC101

Kama wrote: »

There's plenty of anti-Nama's who wouldn't be seen dead next to a Swippy yelling through his microphone...

Very valid point in my opinion.

I have reservations about NAMA, but there is no way I'm going to join a march full of SWPs with megaphones and their usual slogans/agendas and SF using it to push a "No to Lisbon" agenda.

oceanclub

I was there and did my bit! Not sure who estimated 50k; either a wildly over-enthusiastic organiser, or - putting Chapeau du Cynicism on - the state broadcaster in order to make the subsequent march seem like a failure.

Kama

I didn't see anything near 1.5k, especially once it got to the destination.
It might have broken 500, if I'm very bad at guesstimation, 400-500 is my guess.

But the 50k figure was a wild exaggeration, by a factor of magnitude. Dunno about the media konspirasy angle, wouldn't put it past them.

I have reservations about NAMA, but there is no way I'm going to join a march full of SWPs with megaphones and their usual slogans/agendas and SF using it to push a "No to Lisbon" agenda.

Yup, that's the thing of it. The front of the march had 2 'No to Lisbon' placards, also prominently displayed behind the speakers, and the megaphone was every old yell-along slogan barely adapted to the occasion, if at all. I also have this naive position that if it's an anti-Nama protest, it shouldn't be totally dominated by the Lisbon issue.

I get the political logic, along with the Swippys desire to be the unifying hegemon of the Left, but I personally find them absurdly counter-productive. The few IPU people talked to seemed like normal pissed-off people rather than professional protestors, and fair play to them imho.

Duckjob

Went along to it, and thought the turnout was pretty disappointing.

I also was getting very irritated by f**king knob-ends using it to pimp anti-Lisbon agendas at every opportunity. I'm against NAMA, I wasn't there for any other reason. People trying to shove other stuff down your neck would put me off going again.



.

Count Dooku

Kama wrote: »

I didn't see anything near 1.5k,

Kama wrote: »

especially once it got to the destination.

Kama

Yup, using the buses in the background as a rough gauge, 4-500 seems about right...filled a small section of Molesworth St at the end.

Banana Guy gets the Best Dressed Award, no doubt there.

Count Dooku

Kama wrote: »

Yup, using the buses in the background as a rough gauge, 4-500 seems about right...filled a small section of Molesworth St at the end.

I think it was more
Those two photos made at the same time from the same part of crowd.



As you can see maximum length was from spire to end of o’connel street, ie 300 meters
From this photo, you can see a density, which was line of 10 people per 2 meters.



300/2 * 10 = 1500

May be less, but not 500

But then people quickly disappeared from Molesworth St …
Possibly decided to go to free beer festival in phoenix park which was main event today


Still not too bad for so poor preparation without single poster

flamez911

I'd say it was 1200ish on O'Connell St. which was when it was largest, and 500-600 once we got to the destination.

e: I'm actually in one of those photos, cool.

Count Dooku

Media totally ignored protest yesterday, but they paid much bigger attention to less the hundred people at Wednesday
It is good because it means that political establishment is scared that people are protesting themselves without any real leader, which could be easy to buy

bauderline

... I think some of you need to get real.

You can dilude yourselves all you want, but your protest against NAMA is a dead duck, yesterday was a crucial indication of the level of support...

It just ain't there folks...

Count Dooku

bauderline wrote: »

... I think some of you need to get real.

You can dilude yourselves all you want, but your protest against NAMA is a dead duck, yesterday was a crucial indication of the level of support...

It just ain't there folks...

This is how member of mainstream political parties would like to see it


This march happened without any advertisement and support from any major political party. People came only because they don’t like government and they were ready to join any march, even with IPU.
Topics about march had about 500 readers on boards.ie, about 200 on p.ie and similar amount on pin. i.e. less then 1000 people learned about this march from forums. Facebook had 8000 members, but most of them didn’t come, because they never heard about IPU. Plus not everybody lives in Dublin.
It means that most of people who learned about march from internet came to parnell sq
Another good thing was that it was people from different beliefs, right wingers and lefties marched together
It means if country will be flooded posters, which tell to people that they must unite against lazy opposition politicians and corrupted government, then you will see how many people will join marches
It was only first real march, next Saturday will be another march organized by lefties
It is only beginning of the end

bauderline

bauderline wrote: »

... I think some of you need to get real.

You can dilude yourselves all you want, but your protest against NAMA is a dead duck, yesterday was a crucial indication of the level of support...

It just ain't there folks...

Oh don't worry there's far more to come.
Wednesday is a Labour protest at 1pm which should have a decent turn out.

I think the problem is that the vast majority of people don't know what NAMA is all about. And then again a lot of Irish people will never be arsed losing a Saturday to any cause. The footy etc is far more important obv :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

... I think some of you need to get real.

Unfortunately I fear Bauderline has an affinity for the Plain People of Ireland.
The PPoI have consistently proven themselves capable of maintaining the most intense level of disinterest in ANYTHING remotely resembling Politics,Civics,Efficiency,Good Management and a host of other forren stuff.

The PPoI are after all celebrated in Story and Song as Happy go Lucky,Impish rogues who will have the eye out of ye in a flash,but with a winning smile and a hi diddlee eye...

Bauderline recognises this,as of course does Brian Cowen and his cabinet which explains rather succinctly why we see little evidence of this "Cabinet" actually contemplating a meaningful reduction in Government Expenditure on directly paid "Supports" to the PPoI.

The Cowenite`s know only too well the value of keeping the PPoI in Beer,Crisps and Flat Screens and the prospect of the PPoI turning nasty should the 48" HDTV be repossessed fills them with dread.

It`s the same for Lisbon.

Holy God Miley,wudja look at all that oul shyte...how are we expected to understand all dah stuff....

Like many of our former and highly durable Leaders,if it cannot be condensed to a single A4 page then don`t bother me with it !

Indeed we only grudgingly acknowledge that its Serious politicians such as Shane Ross (and a SENATOR to boot) who continually earn their salaries by repeatedly asking incisive and important questions until stuff like the Fás scandal is finally revealed.

Does anybody here think that ANY of our current Cabinet would have revealed the stuff uncovered by Sen Ross if left to their own devices ?
You would have a better chance of gettin a receipt for your contribution to NAMA !

FULL marks however to Rojomcdojo however for at least breaking free of that defining Irish trait of "ah sure waht can ye do"ism...I really do hope it will lead to Ireland being a better place !!!

Kama

I guess it's possible that it could be 500-odd at the start, swell to 1500 in the middle, then drop back to 500-odd at the end, but I couldn't honestly report that I saw that at any time. Just my 2c to add to triangulation of an estimate, rather than a definitive claim...

I'm open to the suggestion that it went high in the middle, I just can't substantiate that myself. Still think respectable for an 'unknown' organization, with no conventional advertising, and hats off to IPU on that, in no way trying to disparage the action. Anyhoo, numbers schmumbers, still glad I went, hope more people do the next, curious as to the Labour turnout on Wed and next Sat's.

Dooku wrote:

Another good thing was that it was people from different beliefs, right wingers and lefties marched together

I'd second this. The 'represented affiliates' or whatever were predominantly leftist, but the range of people there was less ideologically rigid, at least among those I chatted to. Feelings seemed somewhat split on the appropriateness of the Lisbon focus, between 'all one struggle' and 'distraction from the point'. I lean to the second myself; if it gets dominated by the Boyd-Barrets etc, imo it automatically loses about half of its possible support base. Posters here seem to be confirming my epeenion on this.

bauderline wrote:

You can dilude yourselves all you want, but your protest against NAMA is a dead duck, yesterday was a crucial indication of the level of support...

Dunno about that, thought it a respectable show of peeps against a policy with support of ballpark 25%. The strongest pro-Nama argument I've heard trotted around is 'sure its a shambles but TINA', which is hardly a knockdown. For a non-aligned 'nonpolitical' issue group, 500-1000 is a fair showing for a first demonstration especially given the lack of advertizing/support.

Edit: Wow! I've totally had my mind changed! THIS is the strongest pro-Nama argument! Henceforth, Kama Loves Nama!

Count Dooku

Kama wrote: »

I guess it's possible that it could be 500-odd at the start, swell to 1500 in the middle, then drop back to 500-odd at the end, but I couldn't honestly report that I saw that at any time. Just my 2c to add to triangulation of an estimate, rather than a definitive claim...

My explanation to high number at the middle will be that a lot of people came to remembrance garden, saw relatively small crowd and decided to stay near and join march if it will be enough people. A lot of them were staying on o’connel street and when march started and they saw that they will be not alone, they joined march and left when IPU started meeting

Don’t forget that most of people came alone and they didn’t know each other.
They are not like “usual suspects” who will march if only ten of them

Count Dooku

Count Dooku wrote: »

My explanation to high number at the middle will be that a lot of people came to remembrance garden, saw relatively small crowd and decided to stay near and join march if it will be enough people. A lot of them were staying on o’connel street and when march started and they saw that they will be not alone, they joined march and left when IPU started meeting

Don’t forget that most of people came alone and they didn’t know each other.
They are not like “usual suspects” who will march if only ten of them

I havn't uploaded any footage yet of the actual marching but on reviewing it there was defo 1k+ people there. I can get some online later for all the disbelievers but for now I'm waiting for the speeches to finish processing on youtube and then I'll post them.


edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJVbpx0sMag

Owen101

roosterman71 wrote: »

Looks like this wasn't as much interest to the people as has been made out on this thread
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0912/banks.html

Well Hitler only attracted 2000 back in 1920 so ...

Overall I thought there was too much (even hijacked) of the left wing socialist stuff, the no cutbacks etc.

I though this was purely about Nama.

gleep

I was at the march, kind of disheartened by the turn out originally, but it was mainly organised on boards and FB and therefore pretty good. I'd like to congratulate the organisers.
What I'd like to see is FG,Labour, SF et all getting involved in REAL politics and putting themselves out there, making a pact to educate their supporters on the deep, dark, criminal hole that FF is digging for us, and mobilising these supporters to protest TOGETHER every Saturday/Sunday. Thats is the only way we can really push this home imo, organised and co-ordinated protest.
Then invite FF to mobilise their NAMA supporters, measure the resultant turnout and watch Cowen & co squirm. I think this would provide undeniable,visible proof of the opposition, and make more of an impact than a newspaper opinion poll.
We need swift action from the opposition parties, they have a duty to the people of this country as much as the govt.:)

Time to offer THIS man Minister for finance job, with all the benefits of a FAS executive crook!

Kama

The lesson I'm taking from it is we need to either bring/print more appropriate signs that are 'on message', possibly prep some less lame sing-alongs, and bring more people. 500-1000 as an initial show from an unadvertised forums-and-facebook isn't bad, but more is needed.

The last thing those of us who didn't like the dominant message of the march should do is not show up and cede the issue to sectional hijack. If we don't go because 'they will be there', it's our fail. PbP and SF say they were called in because there wasn't enough people; if people stay home because they are there its perversely self-fulfilling...

Don't forget about the Labour protest planned for 1pm tomorrow outside Leinster House.



Be there or be screwed.

bauderline

Yes another hopeless showing of numbers yesterday.... but there'll be more next round though... right ?

bauderline

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Oh don't worry there's far more to come.
Wednesday is a Labour protest at 1pm which should have a decent turn out.

Indeed.