Cycling Serious Health Hazard

shooterMac

I just narrowly escaped having my head crushed by a HGV this morning.
I was in the cycle land going from Dundrum to Hardcourt street and a lorry driver decided he'd use the cycle lane.

He hit my handlebars causing my wheel to turn left and knocked me against the lorry. I fell and all I could think was My head is going to be crushed by the rear wheels (Actually they scraped my head).

He said he didn't see me, haha. the line on the cycle lane is white so he had no business being in there at all.

This isn't my first near miss and almost every journey sees a car/truck crossing into a cycle lane.

I'm seriously considering jogging to work now, I have realized that, through no fault of my own, I could end up dead if I continue to cycle.

I am really at a loss as how I can reduce this risk to my person. This cycle to work scheme the greens have introduced nearly had it's first victum!

markpb

Three things..

1. I'm glad you survived - you were very lucky.

2. Report him to the Gardai. It's a very serious incident. Go to a garda station in person and make a statement.

3. I don't need to tell you this but cyclists need to be incredibly careful of HGVs. Don't undertake them if you can help it - they won't be able to see you. If you have to undertake, watch their wheels at all times and be prepared to come to a very abrupt stop if there's even the slightest indication that they're turning.

I hope this doesn't put you off cycling. Incidents like that can put people off for life but unfortunately the only way to make yourself safer is through experience. You've been very unlucky and, with luck, you'll never have another incident like that again. I've been cycling around Dublin for 10 years and never had an incident so don't believe people who tell you cycling isn't safe.

shooterMac

Thanks for the reply.
No the lorry wasn't turning, there wasn't any turn, the cycle lane had a white line, so he shouldn't have been there. He drifted into the cycle lane almost to the kerb as I was cycling beside the truck.

I will not be reporting him because my thinking was at least he got a scare, I'd prefer someone who had a scare to be driving other than his replacement + in these times all jobs are precious.

It was morning time and this in my opinion has to be the most dangerous time to ride a bike.

I'm working here with quite a few bruises and scrapes at the moment.

What gets to me is the randomness of it all.

serfboard

Glad to hear you're OK - although I'd imagine if it was me, I'd still be shaking from it.

Of course if we had proper cycle lanes in this country separated from the traffic by a kerb, then this would not have happened.

Zebra3

OP,

You should've got a witness and reported him.

They don't give a toss in my experience. :mad:

Carawaystick

shooterMac wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.
No the lorry wasn't turning, there wasn't any turn, the cycle lane had a white line, so he shouldn't have been there. He drifted into the cycle lane almost to the kerb as I was cycling beside the truck.

I will not be reporting him because my thinking was at least he got a scare, I'd prefer someone who had a scare to be driving other than his replacement + in these times all jobs are precious.

It was morning time and this in my opinion has to be the most dangerous time to ride a bike.

I'm working here with quite a few bruises and scrapes at the moment.

What gets to me is the randomness of it all.

What gets me is the fact you'ld let a criminal and potential killer go away because you ( who were probably not in a fit state to judge) decided a "shock" was better for the driver rather than a shock and the law cracking down on him.

Did you get his insurance details?
Did you get your bike checked out?

Victor

shooterMac wrote: »

I was cycling beside the truck.

Never ever do this with a long vehicle. If you are ahead, stay ahead. If you are beside, drop behind. If you are behind, stay behind.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055651124

ardmacha

The OP was in a cycle lane, i.e. a different lane than the truck. Now I accept the safety advice but surely there is a need for some enforcement, trucks are routinely careless about lane discipline and all road laws it is not acceptable to say that all other traffic should simply stop if they stop.

Trucks are the most dangerous form of vehicle, they have to be held to account.

Dublinstiofán

Glad your alright.

BrianD

Carawaystick wrote: »

What gets me is the fact you'ld let a criminal and potential killer go away because you ( who were probably not in a fit state to judge) decided a "shock" was better for the driver rather than a shock and the law cracking down on him.

Did you get his insurance details?
Did you get your bike checked out?

I think you are being a hysterical here. There may have good reason for the truck to enter the cycle lane e.g. to avoid an obstruction and if he did slow down to do so then the cyclist coming from behind would have to yield.

In any case, we can only go by the description of events given from by the OP. I am somewhat confused by the post - it seems that the OP and the truck driver did come face to face. There begs two questions - the driver of the truck was periodically looking and if the event was that serious that the OP should have made a Garda report or at least make the operator/owner of the vehicle aware of what happened. At least you might get the satisfaction of the driver getting some discipline from his employer.

It is risky being on the road but I wouldn't be put off. The majority of motorists keep out of cycle lanes. The biggest problem you'll have is motorcyles who also tend to use them.

It must have been a bit of shock but hopefully you'll be back in the saddle again!

Gavin

ardmacha wrote: »

The OP was in a cycle lane, i.e. a different lane than the truck. Now I accept the safety advice but surely there is a need for some enforcement, trucks are routinely careless about lane discipline and all road laws it is not acceptable to say that all other traffic should simply stop if they stop.

Trucks are the most dangerous form of vehicle, they have to be held to account.

A large number of cycle lanes in Dublin are simply painted on roads. The road is not widened. That is, there just isn't enough room for even a car and bicycle side by side, never mind a HGV and bicycle.

Zube

markpb wrote: »

Incidents like that can put people off for life but unfortunately the only way to make yourself safer is through experience.

Or you can quit cycling in Dublin traffic, which is what I did after an incident like the OP's.

shooterMac

Thanks All for the replies ^ ^.
Common sense in all the replies.

Cycled to work today but I was in foul humor while doing it, I guess tension and fear induce rage in me.
The driver was english as was his company.

I agree that I should never cycle beside a truck, seems like good practise, but the truck I was passing it at the time due to slow traffic. It speeded up while veering towards me.
I'm going to jog 3 miles and see if it's feasable, if it is then I'll jog the 3 miles to and from work.

I don't know but, I would like to see lower side skirting around hgvs, at least if they side swipe you you have less chance of falling under the rear wheels (which I still don't know how I avoided it because I fell against the truck after it hit my handlebars).

Although I was 100% in the right (the cycle lane had a white line ie: should never be driven in!! not a broken white line.) being in the right doesn't stop you being killed.

I was UNDER taken today by a scooter today which put me in a murderous rage!

So I guess in conclusion, until the government do something it's a risky way to travel.

So cyclists remember 2 things:
1 You are invisible.
2 car/hgv/scooter drivers are out to kill you ^ ^.

Zoney

When I was commuting by bicycle in traffic I simply stayed in/alongside traffic if it was slow - I wouldn't have been confident undertaking even stopped traffic, and especially not HGVs. It doesn't hold up traffic at lights etc. if your in front of someone as if you've geared properly you can make a faster start on green than cars.

Roundabouts were what I hated most, but checking the traffic behind and moving into the main traffic lane (either gradually or if a gap in traffic behind) approaching the roundabout, and ramping up the speed to be nearer to actual traffic speed (this was rush hour so it wasn't too fast) made it a lot less hair-raising. I would make eye contact with other motorists where possible too - despite being pretty visible. Also not being too near the verge allows room for emergency pulling in if someone is approaching too close. If a roundabout was very frantic with traffic or dodgy layout I'd simply dismount and cross on foot between footpaths.

If I was doing it again I think I'd get a mirror on a stalk for at least the right hand handlebar - it's very awkward and a bit iffy looking over ones shoulder (e.g. when crossing an entrance to a filling station - on approach you want to check for left-turning traffic). Anticipation is very important - on a regular route you need to look out for the same old hazards every single day just in case and be ready to brake or swerve in at certain points.

I was fortunate to only once or twice have an emergency stop - once for opening car door and another time for a pedestrian. Only commuting accident I had was taking a turn at too high a speed after a downhill and hitting dirt/gravel when turning onto a cycle path - ended up landing sideways on my forearm but fortunately off the road and no breakages (just a nice patch of skin gone near my elbow). Had an accident touring in Kerry too along the same lines but opted for taking the turn too wide and going sidelong into a hedge rather than skidding and landing on the road where a car might come along. Fortunately slowed enough that the hedge just took the impact of the sudden stop and the only reprecussion was having to dislodge the front wheel. I make sure to brake more going downhill now despite the temptation to enjoy the higher speeds.

ardmacha

I think you are being a hysterical here. There may have good reason for the truck to enter the cycle lane e.g. to avoid an obstruction and if he did slow down to do so then the cyclist coming from behind would have to yield.

If there is an obstruction in your lane you can only move into someone else's if it is not occupied.

The purpose of cycle and bus lanes is to allow certain types of traffic undertake other road traffic which may be slow moving owing to congestion.

monument

I'm unsure what cycle lane the OP was using, but it is safer to ignore them.

The cycle tracks in Dublin are of a very poor design. The tracks often direct cyclists into unsafe road positions, such as along side left turning trucks and other traffic or into spaces there is not enough room for a car or truck.

It's also best to ignore them because it'll help you remember motorists often drive and park on them.

monument

Zube wrote: »

Or you can quit cycling in Dublin traffic, which is what I did after an incident like the OP's.

And would you quit walking and using cars if you have one bad experience?

Carawaystick

BrianD wrote: »

I think you are being a hysterical here. There may have good reason for the truck to enter the cycle lane e.g. to avoid an obstruction and if he did slow down to do so then the cyclist coming from behind would have to yield.

How many truck drivers have been killed, seriously injured or have even got the slightest physical injury from a cyclist in Dublin or anywhere else in Ireland? In say the last decade?

There is no good reason for a truck to drive in a cycle lane. A truck should be driven at a speed to allow the driver safely stop it in the distance the driver sees to be clear.
The OP was alongside the truck, not passing it on the left when the truck veered into him.
If the truck was overtaking the OP, then there is a clear legal onus on the trucker to not inconvenience the overtakee, let alone strike his vehicle.

This acceptance of potentially fatal driving really annoys me.
If the OP was driving a car and was hit by a truck so he had to stop, would we be having the same discussion?

paddyland

Carawaystick wrote: »

There is no good reason for a truck to drive in a cycle lane.

There are different types of cycle lanes. Some are of an advisory type, with broken lines to indicate that traffic may cross into them where necessary.

Where a road is of a single lane in each direction, with a cycle lane demarked by a broken line, in many cases the large vehicle will be the full width of the traffic lane plus the cycle lane. In such a case, the large vehicle driver, when arriving behind a cyclist, must indicate right to cross the centre line and pass the cyclist, before returning safely to his own side.

However, in queued traffic, it is regularly the case that cyclists will pass slow moving lorries or buses on the inside, leaving the driver of the large vehicle in great difficulty where space is at a premium. Particularly where large vehicles indicate to turn left, cyclists will come up and try to pass on the inside. So cyclists bear just as much responsibility for bad practice on the roads as other road users.

It is not a case that one group of road users are more responsible than anyone else. For every argument you make about irresponsible lorry drivers, I could counter it with a story about a reckless cyclist. It is in the nature of many people to take risks, and the onus is on everyone to take equal care.

robfitz

shooterMac wrote: »

I was in the cycle land going from Dundrum to Hardcourt street and a lorry driver decided he'd use the cycle lane.

Can you post (or pm) exact details of what and where this happened? Near misses like this are almost never get reported, so no investigation is preformed. I can pass the details on to the relevant council so that steps can be taken to avoid the issue in the future.

gjim

Two things:

First of all I think it was a big mistake not to get the driver's details and report him. If he had scratched your car with such a maneuver, you would not have hesitated to record everything - yet he actually hit your bike, threatened your life and yet you were prepared to let it go hoping the "shock" would teach him a lesson. Although I know how shock of an incident like this can upset your judgement, you seem to be doing some after-the-fact rationalizing here.

Secondly, undertaking a HGV is a complete no-no cycle-lane or no cycle-lane. When you're on a bike anywhere near traffic, your own safety is paramount. This means it's not about being "right", it's about being safe; in this case, given the slow moving traffic, I would have over-taken on the outside even if it meant leaving the cycle lane or mounting the footpath assuming there was no granny or whatever walking there about to get a heart attack at the sight of a bicycle.

Cycling safely is a skill that takes a lot of experience given there are no lessons or classes available that I know of. I suspect that if you do continue to cycle, you'll never undertake a truck or lorry again.

Actually re-reading the above it sounds harsh; I'm actually sorry to hear what happened to you.

cyclopath2001

paddyland wrote: »

There are different types of cycle lanes. Some are of an advisory type, with broken lines to indicate that traffic may cross into them where necessary.

Most of what you say is based on the law and 'best practice'. The term 'advisory' has no legal basis and is a 'fudge' term invented by the authorities. Cyclists are traffic, but they have little discretion about whether or not to use a cycle track. They are legally obliged to use them with only a few execeptions. Only motor traffic have discretion to drive in such cycle tracks.

paddyland wrote: »

In such a case, the large vehicle driver, when arriving behind a cyclist, must indicate right to cross the centre line and pass the cyclist, before returning safely to his own side.

Only if to do so does not endanger or cause inconvenience to anyone. Overtaking, moving in and obstructing a cycle track is illegal.

paddyland wrote: »

However, in queued traffic, it is regularly the case that cyclists will pass slow moving lorries or buses on the inside,

It is equally often the case that truck drivers partially overtake cyclists which is illegal.

paddyland wrote: »

The onus is on everyone to take equal care.

Good advice for everyone, including local authorities who design unsafe facilities and ignore legal signage/design requirements.

On the balance, the regulations, practice and designs favour motor traffic.

Jawgap

whether the OP was in a cycle lane or not is incidental.

The truck tried to occupy part of the road that was already legitimately occupied by a cyclist and hit him. The truck driver moved and hit the cyclist not the other way around therefore he's in the wrong - he's at least committed the offence of careless driving (driving with undue care and attention).

Secondly, the driver's behaviour is inexcusable and he should be reported. Yes times might be tough but he obviously doesn't value his HGV licence if he goes around driving like that. Also, it's unlikely he modulates his driving behaviour so he's only a danger to cyclists, he's a danger to everyone!!

Report him. Hopefully Traffic will investigate and give him an even bigger scare. Don't waste your time with the local council.

Bandit12

In most countries the cycle lane is'nt painted unto the road like in Dublin. They actually build a cycle lane. I would never in a million years let either of my girls cycle to school as it would involve cycling on one of these cycle lanes on a very narrow road used by buses,HGV's,cars etc... It's not not safe to cycle in Dublin traffic anymore :mad:

KevR

serfboard wrote: »

Of course if we had proper cycle lanes in this country separated from the traffic by a kerb, then this would not have happened.

More of that is definitely needed, cycle 'lanes' at road level are no good.

However, lately I have noticed some cyclists using the road on the Galway Ring Road instead of the cycle path which is separated from the road by the kerb. I cycled a good stretch of this road for years when in my previous job and I would never have considered using the road instead of the cycle path, never, not even if you paid me!

As a motorists these people who use the road have me raging, they are an unnecessary hazard for me to deal with and they are putting themselves in danger.
As a cyclist it annoys me just as much because if people won't use the cycle paths which are already provided for them then it's not very likely that the council will ever consider building more.

Zube

monument wrote: »

And would you quit walking and using cars if you have one bad experience?

I've written off a car in a frontal crash at speed, and I'll happily risk that again rather than risk cycling in Dublin traffic.

shooterMac

Hi all
Thanks for the comments.
On the road I travel I have no choice but to use the cycle lanes, I have mentioned more than once that the cycle lane had an unbroken white line on it.
There was no turn coming up, it was on a straight stretch of road(not even a curve in it), so I felt safe in the cycle lane. I would consider myself pretty aware of traffic around me, but if I pulled the brakes for every motor beside me I wouldn't go anywhere.

I'm always totally alert coming up to turns etc but at some stage you just have to trust motorists will not try to kill you. This was totally the hgv drivers fault, there can be no argument there. He just wasn't using his mirrors at all and was totally unaware of the fact that cyclists exist. I was wearing a high vis vest also hehe.

Anyone posting about bad cyclists is talking from a comfortable seat in his car/truck. A cyclist has to be a lot more careful than a driver ever has to be! end of story! bad cyclists risk their lives bad lorry drivers risk NOTHING!!!

I'm of the opinion that if they had to cycle to work one week a year they would become more considerate of the perils of cycling.

shooterMac

"Can you post (or pm) exact details of what and where this happened? Near misses like this are almost never get reported, so no investigation is preformed. I can pass the details on to the relevant council so that steps can be taken to avoid the issue in the future."

Thanks ^ ^. I'm at work at the moment but I'll try to dig out the location, as for the driver I passed him today coming against me. I appreciate argument that I should report him but, I'm feeling a bit benevolent because I survived and am issuing a pardon for all motoring offences against me. but If someone has to get out of a car to apoligise to me again I'll break his jaw.

I also drive and came out of a shop where I had legally parked to find some guy had parked behind me. After waiting 15 minutes or so he arrived back!
I mean is it just the area or what???!!
People just don't seem to give a damn anymore.