Interesting irish historical facts

ejmaztec

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I would'nt think the Skellig Island monks would have had the resources to do this. They lived a fairly basic lifestyle.

I think that they only inhabited the rock after the Romans had long since left Britain, and, centuries after the Romans stopped the persecution of Christians, prior to the Western Roman Empire's disintegration.

Perhaps the monks were so cut off from the real world, that they hadn't kept up with the news.:eek:

theboss80

Ireland was the first EVER country to be mapped with accuracy starting in 1824 and not finishing untill 1846, a british Lt. Col. Thomas Colby and a team of engineers. He triangulated his ay around the country starting up near Belfast. It produced the original 6" scale map.
Also by the way when that survey and a another one following that finished early in the 20th century most of west Donegal and major parts of Mayo and Galway were never mapped precisley have never since been mapped for ordinance survey.

SEANYBOY1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the (Excellent) series also included France and Scandanavia coastlines as well. If you watched it through less bigotted eyes you would have found a lot of very interesting historical facts in there, like the carving of mill Stones in Waterford and the one I qouted earlier, about seismology and Killiney beach.



:rolleyes:

Bigotry and Geography are two different things. Your a bit too trigger happy with your comments. Please dont reply to this.

sensibleken

The mythical island of hi-brazil said to be off the west coast of ireland appeared on a catilan map in the 15th century. actually i believe it appeared on a few more but thats the only one ive sourced.

GhostInTheRuins

sensibleken wrote: »

The mythical island of hi-brazil said to be off the west coast of ireland appeared on a catilan map in the 15th century. actually i believe it appeared on a few more but thats the only one ive sourced.

Ah that's really interesting, I've never heard about it before.

Some info on it here, I like the guy who claimed he landed on it and it discovered it was populated only by giant rabbits and a magician who lived in a castle

MarchDub

theboss80 wrote: »

Ireland was the first EVER country to be mapped with accuracy starting in 1824 and not finishing untill 1846, a british Lt. Col. Thomas Colby and a team of engineers. He triangulated his ay around the country starting up near Belfast. It produced the original 6" scale map.
Also by the way when that survey and a another one following that finished early in the 20th century most of west Donegal and major parts of Mayo and Galway were never mapped precisley have never since been mapped for ordinance survey.

This was a double edged sword - the hidden agenda here was the anglicizing of the island by the British authorities and the establishment of English place names with the concurrent elimination of Irish language place names. Brien Friel features this period in his "Translations" which is set in the 1830s and deals with many of these issues around what was in fact cultural imperialism.

This issue was central to the Celtic Renaissance period of the late nineteenth century and Douglas Hyde was referring to this and other anglicizing in his speech on “The Necessity for De-Anglicising Ireland" which he made in the 1890s.

sensibleken

John Philip Holland, the inventor of the modern submarine was an active member of the IRB. in fact he began working on submarines in the hope of using them against british warships.
he moved to america and continued his research while being funded by the IRB and developed the submarine 'The Fenian RAM'. in a dispute over funding the IRB nicked the sub but then realised they had no-one who knew how to operate it.

holland went on to develop the deisel/electric submarine which was only replaced by the nuclear submarine

fifilarue

sensibleken wrote: »

The mythical island of hi-brazil said to be off the west coast of ireland appeared on a catilan map in the 15th century. actually i believe it appeared on a few more but thats the only one ive sourced.

Hy Breasil was only taken off the British Admiralty charts in the early nineteenth century.

Fratton Fred

sensibleken wrote: »

John Philip Holland, the inventor of the modern submarine was an active member of the IRB. in fact he began working on submarines in the hope of using them against british warships.
he moved to america and continued his research while being funded by the IRB and developed the submarine 'The Fenian RAM'. in a dispute over funding the IRB nicked the sub but then realised they had no-one who knew how to operate it.

holland went on to develop the deisel/electric submarine which was only replaced by the nuclear submarine

ironically, the only navy that showed any interest in his designs was, err, the Royal Navy.

Fratton Fred

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

Bigotry and Geography are two different things. Your a bit too trigger happy with your comments. Please dont reply to this.

sorry to disappoint.

When you start using terms such as "Bless Them" and "Even the.." it makes your posts sound snide and detracts from the otherwise good points you make.

McArmalite

sensibleken wrote: »

John Philip Holland, the inventor of the modern submarine was an active member of the IRB. in fact he began working on submarines in the hope of using them against british warships.
he moved to america and continued his research while being funded by the IRB and developed the submarine 'The Fenian RAM'. in a dispute over funding the IRB nicked the sub but then realised they had no-one who knew how to operate it.

holland went on to develop the deisel/electric submarine which was only replaced by the nuclear submarine

Yes, he's known as the father of the submarine. Apparently the Fenian Ram is preserved in a museum in New Jersey.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ironically, the only navy that showed any interest in his designs was, err, the Royal Navy.

Didn't he design subs for the US Navy first ?

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Yes, he's known as the father of the submarine. Apparently the Fenian Ram is preserved in a museum in New Jersey.

Didn't he design subs for the US Navy first ?

this is off the top of my head, so it may not bee 100%.

After he fell out with the IRB, the US navy sponsored him to do some research/design but then decided to pull the funding because they didn't see it going anywhere.

by this time his obsession with his submarine outweighed his dislike for the British and he approached the Admiralty (Or they approached him) and they funded the building of a submarine as they recognised it as the future of naval warfare.

or something like that. He was a genius anyway.

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

this is off the top of my head, so it may not bee 100%.

After he fell out with the IRB, the US navy sponsored him to do some research/design but then decided to pull the funding because they didn't see it going anywhere.

by this time his obsession with his submarine outweighed his dislike for the British and he approached the Admiralty (Or they approached him) and they funded the building of a submarine as they recognised it as the future of naval warfare.

or something like that. He was a genius anyway.

I'm surprised the sausage eaters ( Germans ) didn't approach him as they have shown they have a particular fondness for submarines.

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

this is off the top of my head, so it may not bee 100%.

After he fell out with the IRB, the US navy sponsored him to do some research/design but then decided to pull the funding because they didn't see it going anywhere.

I got curious about this and so just looked him up in the Directory of Irish Biography - by Henry Boylan. John Philip Holland did in fact first build a sub for the US Navy.

His early research was sponsored by Clan na Gael who secured 60,000 pounds for him - quite a lot of money I would think. Their hope was that his invention would be used to fight the British. However, when he needed further funds he founded his own company and got a contract from the US Navy.

His first vessel was a failure but his second was a success and the US Navy called it the Holland. It was after his success with the US Navy that the British Navy took an interest and ordered several Holland vessels, as they were then known.

There's much interesting info on him. He trained as a Christian Brother and left after taking initial vows but first taught in some CBS schools. He died in New Jersey in August 1914.

Data_Quest

The story of Hugh O'Donnell and his two companions, the brothers Art and Henry O'Neill, escaping from Dublin Castle to the Wicklow mountains is always a good story to entertain visitors to Dublin. It certainly captured my imagination as a kid.

SEANYBOY1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

sorry to disappoint.

When you start using terms such as "Bless Them" and "Even the.." it makes your posts sound snide and detracts from the otherwise good points you make.

This might clear things up, it just gets up my goat when programmes refer to Ireland as part of the British coast line. Im not anti english, I had family decorated in WW1 for the British Army even though there is a republican sympathy and we are all proud of the WW1 stuff

Fratton Fred

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

This might clear things up, it just gets up my goat when programmes refer to Ireland as part of the British coast line. Im not anti english, I had family decorated in WW1 for the British Army even though there is a republican sympathy and we are all proud of the WW1 stuff

You were reading too much into it. it was a programme made by the BBC that was originally to be about the UK coastline, but to add interest, this series also included other countries. As I said, it included stretches of the French Coast, Scandanavian coast and IIRC the Faroes as well.

I think it was one of the best programmes the BBC has done in ages.

I found Cork to Dublin fascinating http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m0fq0

funkydunkey

I remember reading somewhere that Hy-Brasil was the Welsh translation of Tír na nÓg. Not sure how true that was, but im fairly certain that its where Brasil got its name. Apparently during the expeditions to the Americas there was an underlying agenda of finding the "fountain of youth" / Tír na nÓg / Hy-Brasil, a mythical island in the west.

Another intersting piece about Dublin is that its apparently legal for the Dean of Trinity to have one Catholic killed per year in Trinity! I first heard David Norris mention this, and have since seen it mentioned in the papers as one of those old laws that were to be abolished as part of a tidy up of the legal system last year.

Another funny story, not dublin related but ties in some previous posts. David Norris was more than a Gay-sympathiser, he is flat-out gay, and was the first openly gay TD. A previous post was about bigotous remarks/graffiti in the North, well Ian Paisley was once quoted as saying about David Norris that he would "like to put a gun up his rear end and pull the trigger" only he'd be afraid Norris would enjoy it!

There was a great show on RTE last year about Dublin Bay, it covered some of these topics. Norris was interviewed on it, and talked about building of The North Bull by Bligh and Dollymount strand/Bull island being created accidently. He made a great quote about how it was a rare moment where mans greed and interference lead to a rare wildlife habitat being created! a good show.

Fratton Fred

funkydunkey wrote: »

There was a great show on RTE last year about Dublin Bay, it covered some of these topics. Norris was interviewed on it, and talked about building of The North Bull by Bligh and Dollymount strand/Bull island being created accidently. He made a great quote about how it was a rare moment where mans greed and interference lead to a rare wildlife habitat being created! a good show.

I guess the same could be said about Booterstown Nature reserve as well, salt marshes created by the building of the Dublin-Kingstown railway.

I recall reading somewhere that the landowner of that area refused to allow the railway to be built on his land, so they built it through the sea instead, creating the marsh. Maybe someone can elaborate on that a bit?

MarchDub

funkydunkey wrote: »

Another funny story, not dublin related but ties in some previous posts. David Norris was more than a Gay-sympathiser, he is flat-out gay, and was the first openly gay TD. .

Just to keep the record straight - no pun intended - Davis Norris was never a TD. He is in the Seanad and was first elected there in the 1980s. He represents Trinity constituents/graduates.

When the Supreme Court of Ireland refused to overturn anti-homosexual laws on the books since British rule - and long overturned in Britain - he took his case to the European Court of Human Rights and won. Ireland then repealed its law in 1992/3 or thereabouts.

fifilarue

Here's a map dated to c. 1522 depicitng the mythical island. I seem to remember it was also mentioned in St. Brendan's Navigatio which recorded his seafaring exploits in the early centuries AD.

SEANYBOY1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You were reading too much into it. it was a programme made by the BBC that was originally to be about the UK coastline, but to add interest, this series also included other countries. As I said, it included stretches of the French Coast, Scandanavian coast and IIRC the Faroes as well.

I think it was one of the best programmes the BBC has done in ages.

I found Cork to Dublin fascinating http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m0fq0

Sound enough chief, IMO the BBC make some of the best documentaries.

ejmaztec

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

Sound enough chief, IMO the BBC make some of the best documentaries.

...and in the Coast programme "Galway to Baltimore", Neil Oliver didn't exactly hold back on the criticism of how the ordinary Irish people were treated in the past, but then again he's Scottish:D.

sensibleken

heres one i learned today.

scottish is latin for irish.

the roman name for bands of irish raiders was the 'scotti'. it then became any gaelge speakers which moved to describe people from Dal Riada, then pics and then both.

SEANYBOY1

ejmaztec wrote: »

...and in the Coast programme "Galway to Baltimore", Neil Oliver didn't exactly hold back on the criticism of how the ordinary Irish people were treated in the past, but then again he's Scottish:D.

Yeah and in particular the famine time he mentioned.

sensibleken wrote: »

heres one i learned today.

scottish is latin for irish.

the roman name for bands of irish raiders was the 'scotti'. it then became any gaelge speakers which moved to describe people from Dal Riada, then pics and then both.

I heard that one before, make sure you tell the self respecting Rangers fans that:D

MarchDub

[font=&quot]Yes, it's all true. The Latin name for the Irish - all Irish - was Scotti. It was in widespread use both in Ireland and in the Roman Empire. In some old maps you can see the island of Ireland with "Scotti" inscribed.

[/font]
[font=&quot]When Brian Boru was named by the hierarchy in Armagh as "Emperor of the Irish" in 1002 it was written in Latin by the scribe as "[/font]Imperator Scottorum[font=&quot] .“ It is also the root where Johannes Scottus [sometimes written Scotus] – "John the Irishman" – got his name. [/font]

[font=&quot]As was said by Sensiblenken, [/font][font=&quot] when the Irish Dal Riada kings settled in Scotland they took the name of “Scotti” with them and it eventually was the term applied to Scotland. So the word Scotland in fact means “the land of the Irish.”[/font]

MarchDub

Here's another interesting character from early Irish history - Feidlimid Mac Crimthann was both a bishop and king. He was Bishop of Cashel around 820 and if you think today's bishops have interesting stories - he beats all. At one stage he abducted Gormlaith, - the wife of the King of Tara - and all her female court and apparently "had his way with her" according to the annals.

He tried to take over the monastery of Clonmacnolise - after trying to burn it down a few times - by putting in a friend of his as Abbot but the would-be Abbot was thrown into the River Shannon by the monks of Clonmacnoise who wanted nothing to do with Feidlimid or his shenanigans.

The good old days.

sensibleken

MarchDub wrote: »

[font=&quot]Yes, it's all true. The Latin name for the Irish - all Irish - was Scotti. It was in widespread use both in Ireland and in the Roman Empire. In some old maps you can see the island of Ireland with "Scotti" inscribed.

[/font]
[font=&quot]When Brian Boru was named by the hierarchy in Armagh as "Emperor of the Irish" in 1002 it was written in Latin by the scribe as "[/font]Imperator Scottorum[font=&quot] .“ It is also the root where Johannes Scottus [sometimes written Scotus] – "John the Irishman" – got his name. [/font]

[font=&quot]As was said by Sensiblenken, [/font][font=&quot] when the Irish Dal Riada kings settled in Scotland they took the name of “Scotti” with them and it eventually was the term applied to Scotland. So the word Scotland in fact means “the land of the Irish.”[/font]

fantastic. would you have any links for the above information by any chance? especially about the maps

sensibleken

MarchDub wrote: »

Here's another interesting character from early Irish history - Feidlimid Mac Crimthann was both a bishop and king. He was Bishop of Cashel around 820 and if you think today's bishops have interesting stories - he beats all. At one stage he abducted Gormlaith, - the wife of the King of Tara - and all her female court and apparently "had his way with her" according to the annals.

He tried to take over the monastery of Clonmacnolise - after trying to burn it down a few times - by putting in a friend of his as Abbot but the would-be Abbot was thrown into the River Shannon by the monks of Clonmacnoise who wanted nothing to do with Feidlimid or his shenanigans.

The good old days.

back in the day (as scholars call it) kidnapping was the new black. my favourite story is of granuaile, stoping at howth to gain supplies after a long voyage only to find the doors at the earl of howth's residence locked gainst her. so her being her, kidnapped his son and brought him back to galway. the earl then had to go all the way to galway to get him back because of his rudeness.

i was at the castle on saturday and was delighted to see the old doors in a permanant open position

sensibleken

SEANYBOY1 wrote: »

I'm glad I seen this now. Zozimus was buried in a paupers grave as was many people in days gone by. My dad, Kevin Molloy actually got his grave a proper headstone and the function room upstairs in The Submarine Bar in Crumlin was renamed 'The Zozimus Room' in his honour as he got the owners of the place to get finacially involved. As far as I know the function room has since been renamed.
I must ask my dad for more info on this and I will post it up here.

i was talling to my da last night about zozimus and a friend of his mick kearney was also involved in getting the headstone apparantly. maybe they know each other