Wifes credit card stolen, advice needed...

dibs101

Looking for some advice about where we stand legally if anyone could help. To cut a long story short we were in London for the weekend at a wedding and my wifes credit card, jewllery, cash and camera was stoilen from the hotel room while we were at the wedding all day saturday. We noticed the card missing sunday morning when we went to check out, we rang to cancel the card but someone had ran up 4800 on the card. I had the pin for my wifes card in my wallet and she had her card in her purse. We left both of these in the room and just brought cash in my pocket to the wedding.They obviously took the pin from my wallet and her card.

The bank are now saying that we are responsible and have to pay back the 4800. There was no forced entry to the room so someone of the staff used an electronic card key to enter the room. We suspect it was the cleaning lady who looked very suspicious.

Are the bank right to demand we pay for this or are they just squeezing us to see if we will pay? Does anyone know where we stand legally?

Any help would be greatly appreciated..... on a side note the thing that really infuriates me is that the camera had photos of our 1 year old son on it, sick......

filmbuffboy

if you have already admitted to the bank that you kept the pin written down somewhere near the card (something you should never do) then im afraid you may be liable.
Report it immediately to the authorities and to the hotel you were staying at. I would demand to speak to a manager at the hotel and explain that none of the doors to the room had been forced and that it was one of the hotel staff. Perhaps there is camera footage showing who went into your room????
hope you get it sorted out!!!

thebiglad

If you effectively give the pin away why would you expect the bank to cover your losses??

Bit late now but did the hotel room not have a safe???

What about CCTV in hotel corridor?

Only hope is police and perhaps shops where purchases were made have CCTV - still too late to get money back but if you could prove it was hotel employee it is another channel to attack.

I'm with the bank on this one - sorry

thebiglad

As this was an 'electronic' lock does the hotel have anyway to see when the room was accessed and by which key card?

Not sure of the technology (or lack of) relating to hotel room locks but maybe someone on Boards knows.

peanuthead

OP that is a horrible situation to be in. I am so sorry. Like another poster asked ... did you admit to the CC company that you had the PIN written down??

Its also worth finding out whether or not a pin was actually used.

I know chip and pin is supposed to be used everywhere, but the reality of it is, its not.

You need to get in touch with the hotel, ask them if anyone else has reported such activity, also get in touch with gardai/police

I know the last thing you prob need are more costs, but if there is a shread of evidence that you may have a case get a solicitor too.

Best of luck

100gSoma

this 4800euro was spent in less than 24hours. Was it on one item or multiple items? Was it abroad or here? If the expenditure was on one item it might be able to claim fraud than if the 4800 was on 50 sperate purchases over a 12 - 24 hour period. Keeping the PIN in proximity to the card is like giving away your signature only worse. I can understand the banks point of view here.
The bank may well be covered. I believe their terms and conditions often state that you must never "disclose you PIN number to anyone" which could probbaly be applied here. writing any 4 digit number in your wallet is a big no no even if its not for your card.

PCPhoto

100gSoma wrote: »

this 4800euro was spent in less than 24hours. Was it on one item or multiple items? Was it abroad or here? If the expenditure was on one item it might be able to claim fraud than if the 4800 was on 50 sperate purchases over a 12 - 24 hour period. Keeping the PIN in proximity to the card is like giving away your signature only worse. I can understand the banks point of view here.
The bank may well be covered. I believe their terms and conditions often state that you must never "disclose you PIN number to anyone" which could probbaly be applied here. writing any 4 digit number in your wallet is a big no no even if its not for your card.

I have a piece of paper in my wallet with five 4digit codes (none of which are the correct code) .... of someone takes my wallet - they try codes card is swallowed up.

OP.....as others have said - contact police, contact hotel .... you have been robbed, the criminal has taken stuff from your room which only hotel staff should have access to....so you can try hold the hotel liable (same way bank are holding you liable)

I'm not trying to give legal advice here - just giving my opinion.

I think it might be wise to contact a solicitor and explain the situation to them - fingers crossed the hotel has decent security and can monitor the cameras/key card used..... and/or the police can track the person down using CCTV footage of any Point of Sale.
Another poster mentioned that we have chip and pin - unfortunately this isnt widespread in England and most of the time they just accept a signature... which means the person could also face a fraud charge as well as robbery.

its similar to Dublin Airport last week - catching them is one thing - proving they did previously is another.

EDIT:
Just wondering - Did you report the theft to Police/Hotel management ?

100gSoma

PCPhoto wrote: »

I have a piece of paper in my wallet with five 4digit codes (none of which are the correct code) .... of someone takes my wallet - they try codes card is swallowed up.

thats great. Although if someone ever sees your library of codes it might be impetus to rob your wallet. Fair enough the cards are swallowed up (at best) or discarded unused, but you still have to replace the wallet and cards. might be better idea keeping them in your phone disguised as phone numbers, last 4 digits being the code. and yes, I don't mean calling it Mastercard1 etc, maybe Mary C or something.

dibs101

Thanks for all responses guys. Even the ones which may confirm our worst fears. Fact is that we specifically asked for our room not to be cleaned on said day left a note on the door and just grabbed some clean towels off the cleaner as she passed by the room. So there was no reason for anybody to be in our room while we were out so it was 100% a member of staff. We went to the police but they said we could have someone with us in 2 hours. We had a flight to catch so they asked us to e mail them the details and someone would contact us. Maybe im being a bit cynical but how much attention are the met going to give to 'two paddys' done on their holidays. Its a tourist area and am pretty sure it happens all the time.

My assumption was that the bank would always block any suspicious looking transactions from overseas. As It was a new card issued in Ireland, never used here, surely the bank must have thought something strange that the fisrt transactions happened outside the country, in London and let them max out the card. Is this in anyway negligence on their part?

I feel that although having her pin in my wallet and her card in the same room is not ideal the fact that nobody should have been in our room should hold some water. It is the same as having your home broken in to after you get a new credit card.. are you responsible then?

The police are currently looking into it, but there is no CCTV on the particular floor, only the lobby and breakfast room. And I have lodged a complaint with the financial ombudsman to see where it gets us....

Again any further advice would be greatly appreciated.... Sick...

Its the oictures of my 1 year old son now that is making me sick and the bastards stole my deodorant too..... WTF!

kmick

regardless of whether or not you feel they are going to do anything you need to report it. It is essential the cc company have a copy of the police report. Also I would ring the hotel and I would not be putting that phone down until some senior manager got a mighty earfcuk. Make sure you leave the question open about what they are going to do about it.

Very very bad idea to have you pin and your cc together. I have my cc number in my phone so if the pin is 1111 I have a number in my phone of my cat of 01-4981111.

dibs101

yeah, the met have been on to me with a crime reference number. Seemed helpful, but didnt fill me with hope about solving the crime due to its nature and the lack of cctv.

thebiglad

Hotel will have very specific disclaimers concerning items lost from the room.

It is to protect themselves not just from sticky finger staff (or even other guests) but also to prevent people claiming they left x & y in the room and it has been stolen, when in fact it was never there.

Not sure how disclaimers will stand up legally but I would expect that they have been well considered (and previously challenged), they will form part of the contract for services when taking the room and as such is signed on check in - need a copy of that.

Sure it would be referred to on the back of the hotel room door also - something along line of Hotel Occupiers Act (doubt that is correct statute, but will be similar). Also English law and not irish will be applicable here so need an English Solicitor or Citizens Advice Bureau.

I think there is some deal at the moment, legal advise for free subject to a contribution of €20 to charity - again perhaps someone else can expand on this, heard advert yesterday on Newstalk but not paying 100% attention.

dobsdave

dibs101 wrote: »

.....
My assumption was that the bank would always block any suspicious looking transactions from overseas. As It was a new card issued in Ireland, never used here, surely the bank must have thought something strange that the fisrt transactions happened outside the country, in London and let them max out the card. Is this in anyway negligence on their part?.....

I think the bank can see if a transaction has been 'verified by PIN' so it probably wouldnt be alarmed by this behaviour.
Ive had my card stopped several times by the bank, but only in the U.S.
At that, it took a few transactions for them to put a stop on it.

sharms

someone actually stole my phone last week it was so awful like i actually would have just handed over it if they had asked rather than what they actually did to me to get it but anyways...

on the phone i had a message with my credit card details as i was buying concert tickets and had left my card at home..

i rang the bank asap and cancelled it.. luckily they didnt have a chance to use it...but they did tell me that if they had it still would have been my problem to cover the cost as up till u report it lost/stolen u are solely liable. short of a police report saying that it was stolen that is!!!!

but no unfortunately its all in the terms and conditions...and i doubt in this market they will let u away with anything

PCPhoto

unfortunately - due to several scams over the past ...oh I dunno ... thirty years, banks tend to cover their ar$es and claim that you are liable until the matter is reported, so if you dont know its stolen the thief has X amount of time to use it.

Hopefully the police will get the CCTV from where it was used and ID the person - but given that the staff member/Thief would presumably know there was no CCTV in that area of hotel then maybe they have done it before....Personally I would get on to a solicitor ....... or contact hotel and police and perform an identical scenario - except this time - with cameras watching the thief.

and hope that they confess if/when caught.