Anyone else "not get" Aphex Twin

Executive Steve

petrochemical wrote: »

Some musical snobs just don't want to accept that often simpler music is better. Yngwie Malmsteen fans, for example.

You can't seriously be trying to compare AFX to Yngwie Malmsteen???

petrochemical

petrochemical wrote: »

Some musical snobs just don't want to accept that often simpler music is better. Yngwie Malmsteen fans, for example.

Which is better? Clouds or koala bears? I think koala bears are better and I think the Aphex Twin is better than Iggy Pop too. But not as good as clouds.

cornbb

petrochemical wrote: »

Some musical snobs just don't want to accept that often simpler music is better. Yngwie Malmsteen fans, for example.

"Often simpler music is better". What on earth does that mean? It implies that often complex music must be better. AT has made lots of fantastic "simple" music too. Just because a lot of his music is complex doesn't mean that those who like it are snobs :rolleyes: Music occasionally requires some complexity to advance. If it didn't we'd all still be listening to bone flutes and animal-skin drums.

Dragan

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

Well? Ok, so I appreciate that the guy is more than unique in his approach, but tune wise, What the fcuk? I used to HATE minimal, and after years of forcing myself to listen to it, i can appreciate how great Hawtin et all are though. On the other hand, I've listened to AT cd's, went to see him at EP etc etc, but I just don't see what all the fuss is about. Ambient music at a festival? No thanks. And as for that **** drum n bass and cheap visuals, I was subjected to, well I just don't get it. Windowlicker aside, I basically think he's the most overrated producer/Dj ever. I reckon he's only so lauded as he's some sort of pioneer, but then again so are Kraftwerk/Underworld/Orbital - yet all three have the tunes and the shows to back up their reps. Anyone else agree with me?

I like some of his stuff.....but IDM can be tough, you know? In the extreme it can sound like a ****ing shambles. That said, the guy has put together some amazing soundscapes and often found ways to push sound that other people hadn't.

Gotta respect that ****.

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

Some people like McDonalds and some people like One, Two or Three Michelin Stars. Liking a certain type of food and/or music is not linked with intelligence.
However, a lot of people would argue that Michelin starred restaurants have better food.

thecommander

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage wrote: »

However, a lot of people would argue that Michelin starred restaurants have better food.

Intelligent Food?

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

thecommander wrote: »

Intelligent Food?

better food

cornbb

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage wrote: »

better food

Absolutely. Having said that there's nothing wrong with Big Macs sometimes either

I think RDJ shows a lot of intelligence in the "simple" music he makes too. The same goes for many producers of more mainstream/"listenable" music - there can be as much genius in a simple piece of music as in a complex piece, whether its a symphony or a 12 minute piece of IDM craziness.

I think its wrong to argue about simplicity/complexity though. This debate is really about accessibility. Something that initially seems far too intense and chaotic can be a real joy to finally "get", if you give something a chance and really listen to it then it can be very very rewarding to finally pick out the beats and the hooks. drukqs is a lot like that I think. And that goes for all sorts of music, not just IDM.

petrochemical

cornbb wrote: »

"Often simpler music is better". What on earth does that mean? It implies that often complex music must be better. AT has made lots of fantastic "simple" music too. Just because a lot of his music is complex doesn't mean that those who like it are snobs :rolleyes: Music occasionally requires some complexity to advance. If it didn't we'd all still be listening to bone flutes and animal-skin drums.

He's made a lot of ****e too though. Most of his stuff actually. It isn't melodius but an self-indulgent w-ank off in musicology and tonality. More complexity does not necessarily equal advancement. And then the minions of chinstroking snobs nod their heads at his 5hit concerts and won't hear a bad word said against the emperor's new clothes. Not to deny his skill, but abstract artists have a lot of "skill" too don't they?

You know what would have improved his stuff no end?

If he just put a donk on it.

cornbb

petrochemical wrote: »

He's made a lot of ****e too though. Most of his stuff actually.

That's purely your opinion.

It isn't melodius

Plenty of it is, and music doesn't have to be melodic to be good. Plenty of mainstream techno etc is completely devoid of melody.[/quote]

but an self-indulgent w-ank off in musicology and tonality.

That's just complete thoughtless nonsense. Musicology encompasses all music.

More complexity does not necessarily equal advancement.

That's entirely true, but completely beside the point.

And then the minions of chinstroking snobs nod their heads at his 5hit concerts and won't hear a bad word said against the emperor's new clothes. Not to deny his skill, but abstract artists have a lot of "skill" too don't they?

You're just insulting people who like music that you don't. Just because someone isn't dancing doesn't mean they're not genuinely enjoying the music. Are you employing that all abstract art is bullsh*t too??

Zascar

Deleted User wrote: »

You know what would have improved his stuff no end?

If he just put a donk on it.

That pretty much goes for for anything though. Donk's are the musical equivalent of Ketchup!

thecommander

Donk Licker

http://www.donkdj.com/remix/50465

francois

Not sure if it is a matter of getting it or not, just because he is an electronic artist doesn't mean it has to be "accessible" or dance floor friendly, he is a pioneer in composing electronica, he made/adapted his own instruments, explored rhythym beyond 4/4, and created unique sounds, he's closer to electronic pioneers likw Xenakis and Cage than Kraftwerk or Tangerine Dream.
You can appreciate his music on a cebreral level as well as a primal level.

Personally I love this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZs5PVcwBs

....and I defy anyone who doesn't!

Scubadevils

francois wrote: »

Not sure if it is a matter of getting it or not, just because he is an electronic artist doesn't mean it has to be "accessible" or dance floor friendly, he is a pioneer in composing electronica, he made/adapted his own instruments, explored rhythym beyond 4/4, and created unique sounds, he's closer to electronic pioneers likw Xenakis and Cage than Kraftwerk or Tangerine Dream.
You can appreciate his music on a cebreral level as well as a primal level.

Personally I love this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZs5PVcwBs

....and I defy anyone who doesn't!

Bleedin snob.

francois

Felixdhc wrote: »

Bleedin snob.

Scubadevils

petrochemical wrote: »

He's made a lot of ****e too though. Most of his stuff actually. It isn't melodius but an self-indulgent w-ank off in musicology and tonality. More complexity does not necessarily equal advancement. And then the minions of chinstroking snobs nod their heads at his 5hit concerts and won't hear a bad word said against the emperor's new clothes. Not to deny his skill, but abstract artists have a lot of "skill" too don't they?

So effectively, the many Aphex Twin fans, myself included since about 1993 are basically chin-stroking snobs? Interesting. I wish I had known that at the tender age of 16 at the time!

cornbb

Here's another few gorgeous ones...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaXqU7hVVhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBFXJw7n-fU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0q1gCsZykg

how anyone could call these unlistenable is beyond me

acman

thecommander wrote: »

Donk Licker

http://www.donkdj.com/remix/50465

Nooooooooo, you beat me too it! I guess "Donk minds think alike" :cool:

Zascar wrote: »

That pretty much goes for for anything though. Donk's are the musical equivalent of Ketchup!

haha, good one! and just like ketchup, the more of it the better!

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVfDuqLy3Ro

I think thread is full of trolls now so.....

Good morning

Zascar

Zascar wrote: »

That pretty much goes for for anything though. Donk's are the musical equivalent of Ketchup!

How vulgar. Just because poor people like chips and the Blackout Crew.

Donks are more pesto than ketchup.

VinylJunkie

Lads talk about sauce goes in the Mustard Forum, please keep to the rules. :pac:

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

Rules are sexy

jiltloop

cornbb wrote: »

Here's another few gorgeous ones...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaXqU7hVVhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBFXJw7n-fU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0q1gCsZykg

how anyone could call these unlistenable is beyond me

Apparently most of his work is void of melody!

Mr Floyd

For me he's the greatest electronic producer of all time, an absolute genious, his music is just incredible, love his Tuss and Analord stuff.

CaSCaDe711

cornbb wrote: »

I think its wrong to argue about simplicity/complexity though. This debate is really about accessibility. Something that initially seems far too intense and chaotic can be a real joy to finally "get", if you give something a chance and really listen to it then it can be very very rewarding to finally pick out the beats and the hooks. drukqs is a lot like that I think. And that goes for all sorts of music, not just IDM.

Just found this thread tonight. Excluding video on the web, never seen Aphex Twin live. Got into his sound quite quickly back in the 90's courtesy of MTV of old, and (along with Autechre) very regularly play his cds. There are numerous tracks on the Drukqs discs I guess I'll never enjoy, just far too random sounding and f**ked up, but overall he has produced far more excellent material than bad --- My Aphex menu: Analords, SAW 85-92, some of SAW-II, Come To Daddy, Surfing On Sine Waves, I Care Because You Do, 26 Mixes For Cash, and the following Drukqs tracks : Cock-Ver10, 54 Cymru Beats, Meltphace 6, AFX237 V7, Taking Control, Ziggomatic V17 and Vordhosbn.

rcaz

It seems a lot of people think electronic music that doesn't go "dum dum dum dum" or "dum tst dum tst dum tst dum tst" is snobbery?

I don't listen to a lot of electronic - the only stuff I really know I love is Aphex Twin (and AFX, Polygon Window - you know, Aphex Twin), Autechre, Squarepusher, DJ Shadow and Kraftwerk. These guys are, in my opinion, doing more for developing music and pushing envelopes than anyone outside the classical world.

I think it's kinda fascinating that so many people can make music with the same drum patterns, the same hoover synths and the same string samples and be thoroughly respected and supported, and then the guys that try to change it up a bit get shunned.

The Come To Daddy EP was the first one I got, and I think it's his best work. Apart from the first track, which can get boring quickly, it's all genius, and it all sounds like nothing else I've heard. Flim is my favourite electronic piece ever (and anyone arguing that Aphex Twin does not make melodic music should be referred to Flim immediately), with Bucephalus Bouncing Ball a close second, Come To Daddy (Mummy Mix) a close third, and IZ-US a close fourth.

Drukqs is incredible - apparently Aphex Twin has never been classically trained, but **** me, he could fool the whole world with some of those tracks.

He is incredibly talented, and you cannot argue with that. As for not 'getting him', I don't understand why anyone would not want to listen to someone who has made such awesomely interesting and complex music alongside brain-melting dancefloor marathons and ambient chillout perfection.

All just my opinion of course.

CaSCaDe711

A good opinion. Certain Aphex tracks I play at home always get a response from family or friends (and I don't mean an anrgy response when playing Start As You Mean To Go On a little too loud ), and they are regularly askiing "What's that track..?" when some of his stuff is background music on say, Top Gear, a CH4 documentary and so on. Would like to get certain friends into his music, but like so many people, they won't give it enough time, and will never understand how beautiful his work is. They are missing out.

Davei141

El Pr0n wrote: »

It seems a lot of people think electronic music that doesn't go "dum dum dum dum" or "dum tst dum tst dum tst dum tst" is snobbery?

I don't listen to a lot of electronic - the only stuff I really know I love is Aphex Twin (and AFX, Polygon Window - you know, Aphex Twin), Autechre, Squarepusher, DJ Shadow and Kraftwerk. These guys are, in my opinion, doing more for developing music and pushing envelopes than anyone outside the classical world.

I think it's kinda fascinating that so many people can make music with the same drum patterns, the same hoover synths and the same string samples and be thoroughly respected and supported, and then the guys that try to change it up a bit get shunned.




He is incredibly talented, and you cannot argue with that. As for not 'getting him', I don't understand why anyone would not want to listen to someone who has made such awesomely interesting and complex music alongside brain-melting dancefloor marathons and ambient chillout perfection.

All just my opinion of course.

Look at you, your snobbery is rife in that post taking pot shots galore questioning how people can POSSIBLY not like the greatest music ever. Anymore bull**** in that post and we would of had to close this forum down and do a bit of spring cleaning.

You try to present your opinion as a fact, thinking your better than people who don't like his style of music. Just because music is "different" doesn't have to mean its good. Did you not just stop and think for a second that the people who are thoroughly respected and supported who don't fit into your little idea of genius make music that people can dance to for hours, can enjoy on every occasion and generally just feel awesome listening to? Is that not enough?

You don't listen to much electronica at all as you said, yet you feel the need to slag off everyone besides your list of 5..

awesomely interesting and complex music

Does it sound good? Do you like it because its interesting and complex, or do you like it because you enjoy the sound? Some of the distorted white noise **** that i had to endure during his set could be described as interesting and complex at a stretch, but as for sounding good? gtfo...

I get the feeling the fact you like Aphex Twin is something you think makes you a complex and interesting individual, just like you think his music is, when you start liking music for primary reasons other than enjoyment, i think thats sad.

Good luck being enlightened.

jtsuited

Ummm,
despite not seeming so to an outsider (as in people who don't listen to much electronic music), Aphex Twin is VERY accessible.

At one stage, the only cd in my collection that could be described as 'electronic' was Aphex Twin.

Unfortunately (and admittedly in my case all those years ago), dance music seems to be repetitive over-linear nonsense to many people who would otherwise be open-minded and indeed educated in their musical taste.

Now WE all now that the repetition is part of it's charm, but it takes a while to get used to before you stop hearing techno as 'uns uns uns' music and realise that even though it uses a highly simplified template, it uses these limitations often as an intellectual challenge.

In the same way as I think Burt Bacharach is a musical genius by fitting in highly complex musical structures into really really radio friendly pop classics. I mention this as anyone who has tried to learn Bacharach's stuff would realise that his chord progressions are very very odd and not in line with what we would consider pop music at all (Steely Dan are another fine example of this).

Some music sounds ridiculously simple but on closer inspection is very complex and well thought out (I like that kind of stuff a lot). And some stuff just IS mindlessly complex full of journeys through serialism, bizarre modalities, atonalism, weird time signatures etc. (and hey that can be a good buzz too).

I think Aphex has got the latter down more than the former. And some electronic artists have the former nailed a little better.

Snobbery shnobbery is what I'd say, and I'm a right aul intellectual snob (especially with music) as y'all know.
Also, it's always a good sign for the type of artist like Aphex Twin to be stimulating all this debate about whether it's genius or whether it's the Emperor's New Clothes. Because it's probably a bit of both. Here's an example:

Many rock fans got into aphex when 'Come to Daddy' came out and they all raved about how it was genius etc.. I've seen Aphex twin say himself in interviews that that track was done as a bit of a death metal pisstake and more or less a bit of a joke.

I'm normally the one who loves a little snobby aul argument on here, but in this case I think it's better to chill the beans, as it'll go round in circles and there are more modern artists and genres to fight about (minimal, tech-house, etc. - i mean they actually play that type of music in clubs nowadays).

So in conclusion, I think you're ALL right!

rcaz

Jesus Christ, Davei141, steady on. If anyone here is on a high horse, it's not me :rolleyes:

I never said Aphex Twin made the greatest music ever. I never made any pot shots and I never slagged anyone off.

As for my "awesomely interesting and complex" remark, if you'd take the time to read the whole sentence,

I don't understand why anyone would not want to listen to someone who has made such awesomely interesting and complex music alongside brain-melting dancefloor marathons and ambient chillout perfection.

My point was that Aphex Twin encompasses so much music, that you could love half of it and hate half of it.

I get the feeling the fact you like Aphex Twin is something you think makes you a complex and interesting individual

You get the feeling I'm a complete wnaker after reading one of my posts? And I'm the bad guy?
I want to be a composer. I like to listen to music and be able to think "what are all the notes doing? Why does it sound like that?". Yes, sometimes I'd push myself to listen to absolute muck just to see what's going on in it.

I don't wear my music like a badge and force other people to listen to it.

It's pretty obvious you don't like him, which is fine. I said I don't get why people don't like to listen to him (And I'm not the only one in this thread who's said that), but I never slagged off people who don't like him.

You try to present your opinion as a fact, thinking your better than people who don't like his style of music.

It is fact that he's very very talented. But as for the second half of that point, total bull****. Please don't make personal assumptions about me, okay?

music that people can dance to for hours, can enjoy on every occasion and generally just feel awesome listening to? Is that not enough?

We're talking about music, not music in any particular context. Of course, if it's an occasion where people are dancing for hours, a lot of Aphex Twin music would be total rubbish music for the situation (though a lot of it would suit well too). I like to listen to music, and I don't go out to dance very often.

My post was completely based on my opinion, whereas your one seemed to be based on your assumptions and misinterpretations.

Good luck being enlightened.

And you call me a snob? Pot, kettle, black. :rolleyes:

Davei141

El Pr0n wrote: »

Jesus Christ, Davei141, steady on. If anyone here is on a high horse, it's not me :rolleyes:

I never said Aphex Twin made the greatest music ever. I never made any pot shots and I never slagged anyone off.

Never made any pot shots?

"I think it's kinda fascinating that so many people can make music with the same drum patterns, the same hoover synths and the same string samples and be thoroughly respected and supported,"

Lets not kid ourselves.

As for my "awesomely interesting and complex" remark, if you'd take the time to read the whole sentence,

My point was that Aphex Twin encompasses so much music, that you could love half of it and hate half of it.

But you can also dislike all of it. Saying you can't understand how people couldn't possibly not like something is extremely arrogant.

You get the feeling I'm a complete wnaker after reading one of my posts? And I'm the bad guy?
I want to be a composer. I like to listen to music and be able to think "what are all the notes doing? Why does it sound like that?". Yes, sometimes I'd push myself to listen to absolute muck just to see what's going on in it.

I like to be able to enjoy music, a lot of people don't like Aphex Twin, a lot do. You know what you were doing with your few I dont/cant understand why people wouldn't like his music, surely wanting to be a composer you would realise people shock horror like different things.

I don't wear my music like a badge and force other people to listen to it.

No you just word your post like they are beneath you.

It's pretty obvious you don't like him, which is fine. I said I don't get why people don't like to listen to him (And I'm not the only one in this thread who's said that), but I never slagged off people who don't like him.

You said you can't understand them, is not liking AT such an alien concept? I would never be so arrogant to say how can you not like XYZ, unless taking the piss. You are actually deadly serious.

It is fact that he's very very talented. But as for the second half of that point, total bull****. Please don't make personal assumptions about me, okay?

Am i really that far off..

We're talking about music, not music in any particular context. Of course, if it's an occasion where people are dancing for hours, a lot of Aphex Twin music would be total rubbish music for the situation (though a lot of it would suit well too). I like to listen to music, and I don't go out to dance very often.

That's my gripe with AT personally. He is heralded as a producing genius and gets gigs at dance festivals blasting out shit you just cant dance to. I suppose we are coming at this from 2 angles, maybe he is a genre unto himself, a genre i don't like because its attached to dance.

My post was completely based on my opinion, whereas your one seemed to be based on your assumptions and misinterpretations.

Lets be honest you tried to blur opinion and fact.

And you call me a snob? Pot, kettle, black. :rolleyes:

#

Don't think i have ever been called a snob before in my life, can you say the same?

I have listened to a large variety of genres of all sorts of music and you always get people inside each of them who like to think of themselves better than others for liking such and such a music. Oddly enough the word genius is always thrown around then too.

I remember a band called the mars volta, they started doing 20 minutes songs and all the americans lapped it up calling it genius/pushing the boundaries/progression. One small important detail, those 20 minutes were full of shite.

jtsuited

haha the mars volta. they were a good laugh. i actually liked the fact that all my mates who loved At the Drive In hated the Mars Volta.

rcaz

Alright, yes, my don't/can't understand points came across a bit pompous, sorry about that, but you're gonna have to take my word for it that I didn't mean it like that.

It annoys me that a lot of music that gets to be successful can be so boring and still be supported. I'm not gonna make any apologies for finding boring music annoying.

And you're still just going on assumption that I'm a snobby wnaker who likes to think of himself as better for liking different music to others. What sort of blind cnut do you think I am??? I can't argue against you on that point, because you've made it all up in your head. So go ahead thinking I act like that, but I don't.

As for never being called a snob, no I can't say that, but I think you might be forgetting something yourself. Have you never formed an idea about something only to realise you're wrong about it and cringe at yourself five years later? Maybe I'll read this thread in a few years and cringe, who cares? I've been called a snob, sometimes wrongly, and sometimes rightly, and I've copped on about a lot of it. I'm fairly sure I'm mature enough now to say that I'm not a ****ing snob, and I couldn't ****ing care less what anyone else wants to listen to. I mightn't understand it, but I only really care about my own ears, as should everyone.

VinylJunkie

Dave I think you should get a reward for highest concentration on this forum! I wouldn be arsed typing all that out :pac:

Davei141

El Pr0n wrote: »

Alright, yes, my don't/can't understand points came across a bit pompous, sorry about that, but you're gonna have to take my word for it that I didn't mean it like that.

I will and i apologise.

It annoys me that a lot of music that gets to be successful can be so boring and still be supported. I'm not gonna make any apologies for finding boring music annoying.

Oh absolutely i agree with you 100%. Most successful music is naturally aimed at the lowest common denominator, scratching the surface is where all the good stuff is at. But seeing as it is the Dance forum i assumed you were slagging off techno/minimal/tech-house etc, so i took offense to that.

And you're still just going on assumption that I'm a snobby wnaker who likes to think of himself as better for liking different music to others. What sort of blind cnut do you think I am??? I can't argue against you on that point, because you've made it all up in your head. So go ahead thinking I act like that, but I don't.

Ill take it back, my posting style is aggressive and it annoyed me some of the phrases you used so i rolled with it. Certain things wind me up the wrong way.

As for never being called a snob, no I can't say that, but I think you might be forgetting something yourself. Have you never formed an idea about something only to realise you're wrong about it and cringe at yourself five years later? Maybe I'll read this thread in a few years and cringe, who cares? I've been called a snob, sometimes wrongly, and sometimes rightly, and I've copped on about a lot of it. I'm fairly sure I'm mature enough now to say that I'm not a ****ing snob, and I couldn't ****ing care less what anyone else wants to listen to. I mightn't understand it, but I only really care about my own ears, as should everyone.

True that. Now we are in total agreement. You worded your first post very badly (imo) so i took you up wrong, scratching the surface i realise we singing from the same hymn sheet...not necessarily genre-wise but overall.

rcaz

I typed more formally (and I'm not very good at that) because I've never posted in this forum before.

Cool stuff.