anyone studying for Grade 8 RIAM piano?

Rgoldie

Hi there,

I am just gathering myself to study for grade 8 piano RIAM. I am an adult learner. I did two exams in 2007 (grade5/6) and now after year doing something else I am back to the RIAM study...cant seem to shake off the need to do the exam but I need a bit of inspiration! Was doubting doing the exam and considered moving on to traditional but I need to scratch to itch and do the grade 8.

I am looking at the Scarlatti piece at the minute and have not picked from group 2 and 3 yet. Anyone out there doing this exam? Any advice on study techniques? I am a little overwhelmed at the prospect of the 5million scales and arpeggios. What study schedules do other people use, how many hours study per day, how much time dedicated to sight reading(I am rubbish at this), scales, pieces? Also in the last two exams I have tackled the three pieces at the same time... is this a good technique?

Please help....confidence low!!!!

Doshea3

Hi...some advice from a piano teacher's perspective (for what it's worth!)...

Scarlatti is a good choice from list A. My advice on the other lists is that the pieces in the book are not the best pieces to choose—particularly on list B where all the pieces are really overly difficult. I'd suggest the first movement of Beethoven's sonata in G major Op. 14 No. 2 which is on the alternative repertoire list. I have a student doing the first movement of Mozart's K. 330 sontata (a sonata that's in my own repertoire, and which I would consider to be very difficult—I played it for my licentiate diploma exam...) and personally I think it's a tall order for Grade 8. The Mozart movement in the book is also difficult, but I'd recommend it much quicker than that Beethoven (a piece which is nearly impossible to impress an examiner with).

Invariably, people want to play the Liszt Consolation on liszt C. I can see why, but again I think this piece is full of too many unnecessarily difficult challenges for this grade, and so I'd recommend perhaps Field Nocturne No. 1 (even though it's not the most inspiring piece ever written). I have a student playing the Howard Ferguson bagatelle (his own choice!), and while it is quite an easy piece, it must be the most awful piece of music on the syllabus.

(http://www.riam.ie/uploadedFiles/Local_Centre_and_Diploma_Examinations/Music_Syllabi/syllabus_of_keyboard_examinations_2009_2011.pdf — just in case you haven't seen the rest of the alternative list.)

The five million scales and arpeggios are not as daunting as they look once you break them into groups. For example, practise your major scales in every key one day, your minors the next, then major arpeggios, scales in 3rds, chromatic scales, etc. This way every week you will get through most of them. Write down the ones every day you feel least confident about and revise them the following day before approaching the others.

How many hours per day? It depends on a few things...when do you want to do the exam, how much time can you spare, and ultimately what are you aiming for? If you're just aiming to 'get Grade 8' then you can put in a small effort over time and come out with your exam and a modest grade. But if you're aiming to be a good pianist then studying for Grade 8 is a perfect opportunity to improve your technique overall. I think an hour a day would be ideal, but as I always tell my students it's the quality and not quantity of practise that matters. If you manage to practise a whole group of scales, learn a page of a piece and sightread a little all within half an hour and feel happy about your progress during that time, that's worth much more than sitting at the piano for four hours and being frustrated by the end. So the main thing is aim to do good, productive practice, however long it may take—there's no point in sitting down and setting the stopwatch going, as this is just counterproductive.

I don't see anything wrong with three pieces at once, as long as you practise them in regular chunks, as opposed to just learning bits of each here and there and not knowing them very well from start to finish.

You say you're rubbish at sightreading—most piano students (regardless of level) say the same. That is because people (both students and teachers) underestimate the importance of regular sightreading. The only way to become good at sightreading is to do it regularly. So set aside a sizeable portion of your practice time every day to sightreading (say, if you practise an hour do fifteen minutes of sightreading or thereabouts). The best way to do it is not by reading Grade 8 specimen tests (these will likely just frustrate you), but by reading easy pieces (say, Grade 2 or 3 standard) and gradually building up the difficulty as you become more confident a reader.

Hope this advice is some use to you. Best of luck, and remember most of all to have confidence in yourself—you can do anything once you put your mind to it!

Dr Gradus

I am studying for teh ABRSM Grade 8, and by studying i mean i have yet to get off my lazy ass and actually do some work in regards to piano. My sightreading is also down the drain and i only managed to scrape by on my scales for my last exam.

Best of luck with yours anyway, im not one to give advice on practise time because i suppose it's really down to the individual and i have done little of anything this summer.

Rgoldie

Good luck with yours too Dr. !! Its hard to get going with the old practice!
Doshea, thanks for the advice. I havent seen the alternative list yet and Ill take your advice into account. I dont want to just do grade 8.I will be aiming for a distinction. I got a dist. in Grade 5 and an honour in Grade 6. I was a little distarcted with family life and didnt have a piano for a while during grade 6 otherwise I would have aimed for the dist but it just wasnt possible at that time. I have lived and breathed the piano for the last three years since I took it up again but I have always had the impression that grade 8 is a really difficult exam and I am intimidated by it I suppose. Can I ask you Doshea what are your thoughts on Grade 8? Is it a very difficult exam? for my distintion what sort of comittment would you expect from a student. I hope your do not mistake my reasons for asking, I am not trying to get away with as little work as possible but I need to get a clear indication as to how mush I need to put in to get my distinction. I may not have a teacher for all of the time that I am studying for the exam so I just need a kick start really...thanks

Doshea3

Hi again Rgoldie, sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

Grade 8 is made out to be some sort of big deal, where in reality it's not. It's just another grade exam. It's just like your Grade 5 or 6 or 7, just more difficult, of course. It's not the mountain people make it out to be, and in the grand scheme of playing the piano it's a small step along the way. I recall doing the Gold Medal recital cert before I did Grade 8 and panicking to my teacher saying that I thought the pieces I was playing wouldn't be Grade 8 standard, as if Grade 8 was the huge milestone people try to make it out to be. He assured me they were well over Grade 8 standard, and in hindsight they were probably a bit too difficult!

If you work hard, you will do well, like in any exam—Grade 8 is no different. As far as commitment goes, it depends again on what you intend to achieve from the exam. If you want to continue on and become a good pianist then put as much time and effort as you can afford into all aspects of the exam. If you just want a distinction in Grade 8, then you won't need to work so hard once your pieces and scales are good.

You say you may not have a teacher for all the time you are preparing for the exam...just be careful to always play for someone knowledgeable regularly if this is the case. I have a student coming to me now who wants to do Grade 8 who did Grade 7 with no teacher at all...he says he did 'okay' in Grade 7, but luckily for him he had a sympathetic examiner who spoke to him and advised him to find a teacher. It's just important to get someone's opinion, if not only to be challenged a bit further but also to have the reassurance that you're on the right track! By all means send me a PM if you'd like to play pieces for me at any stage, I'd be delighted to be any help I could.

pjtb

I'm hope I'm not hijacking this thread!
I'm also studying for grade 8, and I'd love if someone could answer a question or two for me!

I have a really crap piano, and I find that when I play a better one I just can't get used to the feel of the keys. My piano's keys are very loose, and need to be hit fairly hard to make a proper sound. I have terrible work trying to play Liszt Consolation on it. Could or would this have a negative impact on my playing in an exam situation? I belive it would, seen as I have such difficulty in playing a 'proper' piano. It happens every time I go to my lesson, I just can't accustomise myself! ( It could be nerves in front of the teacher too though!)

Another question, how long is the average length (in terms of months) for someone to spend on studying for grade 8? I'm doing it since last Christmas, and I can either do the exam this Christmas or next Summer. I feel I'd be better prepared by next summer though.

Many thanks, pjtb.

Rgoldie

Hi Doshea,

Thanks for getting back to me. I have someone that will listen to me but at irregular enough intervals! I may take you up on the offer to listen to my pieces...thanks very much for the offer (could be some time before they are worth listening to though).

I would love to be able to play piano really well and comfortably but I sometimes feel that I have left it too late..I am 29 and didnt really play much for about 10 years between the ages of 16 and 26. Its really a confidence thing. I know Ill prob do well at the exam. At the end of the day, you do the work and it should pay off, thats the way its panned out for me so far anyway. Im good at study and getting on with the job but its the ability to play fluently and naturally with other musicians that is the thing that I have no experience of with the piano and I am really scared of it if I am to be totally honest.

I sometimes think that I am fooling myself with this but its a real passion for me and I cant seem to let it go! Any advice on what path to take after the Grade 8? What is the thing that would really improve my piano playing? I have found the whole grade thing really good by the way as regards my understanding of music. I have little knowledge of the thoery of music but I would have a great interest in learning more about the workings of the whole thing if you know what I mean.

Thanks again

Rgoldie

Hi Pjtd,

Im not sure if that question was for me or not but I feel your pain on that subject! I played a variety of crap pianos over the years and I get where you are coming from about the feel of the keys on the different quality pianos. It is difficult to really work on the dynamics when the keys are loose on your own piano and not on the teachers piano.

I dealt with this as a child and now as an adult. I am now actually practicing on an electronic piano and have used at least 5 other pianos over the last few years. I found I got over that hurdle by my playing on so many different quality instruments actually.

It may not be recommended by others more qualified then me (and there are lots of them out there!!), but just personally I would advise you to play on a few different pianos if at all possible. If you have a friend, relation or someone that you know with a piano in their house maybe you could practice on their piano once in a while. It helps you get over your attachment to your own instrument and get you out of your comfort zone. By playing a few different pianos of whatever quality it kinda trains you to adjust when nessessary your ability to emphasis dynamics to suit the instrument with whatever piece you are playing.

This worked for me because I didnt have much choice but it payed off I have to say because I feel I can make a judgment on whatever instrument that I sit at fairly quickly.

So just challenge yourself if you can with other pianos and you will get an understanding of the many different quality pianos out there and it will educate you ear and fingers. If this is not possible for you I would ask the teacher if it was possible to use his/her piano to practice on occasion outside of lessons and a bit near exam time as well.

Hope this helps

pjtb

Thank you so much for your reply Rgoldie! It was very prompt!

Luckily I do have access to other pianos. When i return to college in September I'll be able to use the practice rooms there, they're a God send. I've been practising on my own piano at home all summer, and I've gotten too used to it. Your advice is much appreciated!

Rgoldie

Hi pjtb,

What pieces are you studying for the grade 8? I have just started with the Scarlatti sonata thats in the book. Nice piece and not too difficult. How are you finding your pieces? Any advice on what to pick either in the book or on the alternative list?

pjtb

Rgoldie wrote: »

Hi pjtb,

What pieces are you studying for the grade 8? I have just started with the Scarlatti sonata thats in the book. Nice piece and not too difficult. How are you finding your pieces? Any advice on what to pick either in the book or on the alternative list?

It's nice to talk to someone in the same boat as me- I don't think I know anybody else doing grade 8...

My three pieces are
1.) Mozart Sonata XI C Major (K330 i think)
2.) Bach Rondeaux partita No. 2 C Minor
3.) Listz Consolation III (AFAIK that's in the book)

I don't know which lists they're from, my teacher advised these ones, so I don't even know the alternatives.

I'll tell you what I think of them!:

1.) sonata- It's quite long, six pages in my transcription, but I took to it straight away. I really liked it at the beginning, but I think I've played it so much in the last six months that the gloss has worn off. And I've become so familiar with it I'm making loads of slips... that should go eventually I hope. I find it hard enough to get the dynamics right on my banger of a piano, and I tend to play very loudly so changing from f to p suddenly enough is quite hard for me!

2.)Rondeaux- I like this, it's played very quick and staccatoey, which is something I like, it's hard enough to get finger positioning good though. Fingers move very quick during it! Probably now my favourite of the three pieces, it wasn't originally.

3.)Consolation- I find this one very tough. Timing, dynamics, combining LH and RH, all of it. It's totally different to what I'd play if I was left to my own devices. Teacher keeps telling me I'm not dainty enough, (too rough basically!) to play it well, I think I agree with him. I'm finding it hard to get it right, though practice should help! :pac: I like it, but not as much as the other pieces. Once again, banger of a piano does help with it!

I haven't gone near scales/sight reading/singing/whatever else there is to do yet... I should be launching into it in September. Teacher says pieces are most important so it's important to get them right first off!

Rgoldie

I must try and get my hands on recording of those pieces you mention. My teacher advised me to stay away from the Constolation, says its crazy hard to play..it even looks scary on paper!:eek:

I like to get the pieces out of the way too but usually I leave too little time at the end to practice the scales well..but I have been lucky with the exams and the examiners asked me to play scales I actually knew (pure luck).

My teacher breaks up the scales into 3 groups so that 1 group of scales and arpeggios are practiced along side 1 piece..it is a good system I think. I have them saved to my computer on a document if you want me to send them to you??

How are you with the sight reading? I break into a cold sweat at that part of the exam. How are you dealing with practicing for that?

Its been really good chatting to someone in the same boat..I was beginning to get a bit scared of heading into the process again after a years break from it. The chat has helped loads! Thanks.

pjtb

Rgoldie wrote: »

I must try and get my hands on recording of those pieces you mention. My teacher advised me to stay away from the Constolation, says its crazy hard to play..it even looks scary on paper!:eek:

I like to get the pieces out of the way too but usually I leave too little time at the end to practice the scales well..but I have been lucky with the exams and the examiners asked me to play scales I actually knew (pure luck).

My teacher breaks up the scales into 3 groups so that 1 group of scales and arpeggios are practiced along side 1 piece..it is a good system I think. I have them saved to my computer on a document if you want me to send them to you??

How are you with the sight reading? I break into a cold sweat at that part of the exam. How are you dealing with practicing for that?

Its been really good chatting to someone in the same boat..I was beginning to get a bit scared of heading into the process again after a years break from it. The chat has helped loads! Thanks.

Consolation is hard alright! I can give you some youtube links for my pieces if you like!:

consolation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSndcdKttxs
k330: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd7Q7vhNB-I&feature=PlayList&p=E7BF4D6B04A9F374&index=0&playnext=1
partita : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6hxXISXNe8&feature=related (player makes mistakes!)

I'd love to get that document you're talking about, I can pm you my email address if that'll work?

Sight reading is not exactly my forte! Although I think I've got slightly better than I used to be. It's been said here before, but I think the only way to improve is to play pieces cold... without having seen them before. I had a book (which I think I've lost!) full of classical pieces, and I used to randomly open a page and try and play some of it. I didn't do this for long, it was very frustrating, but I think this works.

Sight singing wouldn't be my strong point either, but that's from pure lack of practice... I refuse to practise it if anyone is in the house. I'd say if I added up all the time I've ever spent sight singing It'd only amount to about two minutes! My last teacher told me I sounded like I was grunting when I was sight singing once!

It's a few years (2 I think) since I did my last exam, which was grade 6. So it should be fun doing an exam again, whenever that'll be!

Rgoldie

I was just trying to PM you and attach that document but I dont know if that works around here..anyway couldnt do it so if you PM your email address and ill send that to you. I listened to those pieces :

• Consolation: Beautiful piece of music..lots of work on the LH. Even though I would love to be able to play this and I will tackle it some day, I wont choose it for the exam as my LH needs lots of work and lets me down on rhythm. That Horowitz is fantactic, he is so at ease..I want to be like that when I am 80 years old!

• K330: Very pleasant piece of music its long though isnt it? Are there parts that are exactly repeated in that piece or is it 6 pages of music straight. I think I could handle that one. It had a nice even rhythm and no real surprises in it. Often I find that pieces like this appear difficult because there are loads of notes in it but really this one should nt be too diffficult...or am I being too hopeful?

• Partitia: I dont like this type of piece to play or to listen to. Its not that I dont feel that I could do it with lots of work but I find this kind of style really boring! I find it too plonk-plonk, if you get my drift! It does nothing for me at all. At least I have two ticked off my list of choices now anyway

pjtb

Rgoldie wrote: »

I was just trying to PM you and attach that document but I dont know if that works around here..anyway couldnt do it so if you PM your email address and ill send that to you. I listened to those pieces :

• Consolation: Beautiful piece of music..lots of work on the LH. Even though I would love to be able to play this and I will tackle it some day, I wont choose it for the exam as my LH needs lots of work and lets me down on rhythm. That Horowitz is fantactic, he is so at ease..I want to be like that when I am 80 years old!

• K330: Very pleasant piece of music its long though isnt it? Are there parts that are exactly repeated in that piece or is it 6 pages of music straight. I think I could handle that one. It had a nice even rhythm and no real surprises in it. Often I find that pieces like this appear difficult because there are loads of notes in it but really this one should nt be too diffficult...or am I being too hopeful?

• Partitia: I dont like this type of piece to play or to listen to. Its not that I dont feel that I could do it with lots of work but I find this kind of style really boring! I find it too plonk-plonk, if you get my drift! It does nothing for me at all. At least I have two ticked off my list of choices now anyway

Just pmed you my email address there. Thanks very much.

K330 is fairly straightforward alright, but there's an awful lot in it so it'd take a fair while to get through, though some of it is repeated at the same pitch, and then at a slightly higher pitch.

richardh330

sonata in C, no.48 by joseph haydn
partita no.2, bach
and the piece by kabalewski
best of luck

dan_d

OP - I went back and did my diploma at 24 (exam at 26) having stopped the piano for a couple of years. A tip on scales...write 2 lists, with 6 letters in each - say list 1 is A,C,Bflat,Csharp,E G and list 2 is Fsharp,Eflat,Aflat,D,F,B.
There's a number of ways to do it.....practice list one as major one day and list 2 as minor, then swap the second day.Do every second scale on the lists as minor one day, then as major the second day. Do the list one contrary motions the same day, and chromatic contrarys that day, then swap the next day. Etc,etc. you get the picture. You can use them for everything - arpeggios,chromatics,contrary motions,thirds...whatever else is on the syllabus. You should rewrite the lists every week or so, to make sure they are not familiar to you....that way you get used to playing scales in all different orders, as they would be thrown at you in the exam.I found doing scales first and thoroughly makes sure that your fingers are well warmed up - to the extent that i nearly couldn't play my pieces without doing the scales first, becuase my fingers were stiff!
Good luck!

pavb2

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5767.0.html

Here is an excellent link for all things piano particularly advice for students