Ireland is NOT a tipping country!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ozzirt wrote: »

Someone somewhere seems to have forgotten the oldest maxim of the service industry. "The customer is always right".

Oh, the stories I could tell to dispel that maxim myth...

Degsy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Ahh... so that's where all the anger and complete lack of empahty comes from...!

"Empathy"??
What has empathy got to do with people doing a job of work?
They're not actually destitute are they so why feel sorry for them?
Your constant attempts to sound right on just come across as patronising.

Degsy

LightningBolt wrote: »

Work in a restaurant. We have to tip out (i.e we pay a percentage of our sales (not tips) to the kitchen staff). I've found the majority of people who don't tip to be rude, obnoxious, ignorant and a lot more demanding than those who do. I actually couldn't care less whether or not someone tips, it's their choice and hard earned money at the end of the day.

I've worked a few jobs throughout college, working as a waiter is the only one that allowed me to reduce my working hours whilst earning roughly the same amount as other part time jobs. I'd do 8-10 hours max whilst I'd have college friends who had to do upwards of 25+ to earn about the same. Any other job I've had has been a doddle compared to being a waiter. Unless you've done it please don't knock it.

Waiter rant: Irish customers learn some table etiquette, there's a sizeable minority over here who have none whatsoever. Seriously, if you're rude, obnoxious, ignorant upon the first interaction I'm going to make you wait longer for everything, I couldn't give a ****é about possibly losing out on a tip. It's not that hard to be courteous to your waiter/waitress for the evening, after all you'd expect the very same in return. When you've been served your food and I ask is it cooked okay for you it's because if there's a problem with it I can have any problem resolved in enough time so that you can actually eat at the same time as your partner/group of friends.

Oh and by the way, if you're the kind that look down upon service staff there's a good chance they're a hell of a lot more smarter and educated than you ever will be.

Which is why you're waiting tables for peanuts,yeah?
Lol at your delusions of importance now go and get me a waldorf salad.

Hagar

Degsy, it's too early in the day for trolling. Give it a rest please and thanks.

Saruman

I am not a tipper, my wife being American is though. I will tip a little at restaurants etc and I also sometimes tip the local Chinese delivery. It depends on the price. If it costs €18 and some change then I will hand over €20 and he can keep the change.

For the most part I do not tip as they make a decent wage.
To be honest in a restaurant its the chefs that deserve the tip if the food is excellent.

Lollipops23

look tipping should be a personal thing,but sadly society appears to see you as stingy if you choose not to:mad:

i work in a dept store which,for the the most part, i really like. however, on a daily basis i deal with unbelievable rudeness. I get the run around from obnoxious customers all the time, and nowadays my new personal favourite is the ones who try to haggle down the set price for something(which i constantly try to explain to them,i have no authority to do).

but i take it. not always with a smile,but i take it. and i don't expect extra money for it.

so,for those in traditional tipping industries, we all have tough jobs. i serve the same type of people as you do, and arguably spend more than you do with them. so stop expecting extra money cos your job is "hard".

ozzirt

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh, the stories I could tell to dispel that maxim myth...

Do you have even the slightest idea of what this maxim implies?

It implies that the customer is paying for the service, therefore you have an obligation to "serve' him. He is paying your wages and without their patronage you would not even have a low paying job, you'd have NO job.

ShooterSF

ozzirt wrote: »

Do you have even the slightest idea of what this maxim implies?

It implies that the customer is paying for the service, therefore you have an obligation to "serve' him. He is paying your wages and without their patronage you would not even have a low paying job, you'd have NO job.

Sorry but some customers are just NOT worth the hassle. That's not being arrogant, some customers I have had being self employed are not worth the time and effort you have to dedicate to them, time that could be dedicated to helping the customers that are actually nice and finding new customers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Degsy wrote: »

"Empathy"??
What has empathy got to do with people doing a job of work?

Oh and by the way, if you're the kind that look down upon service staff there's a good chance they're a hell of a lot more smarter and educated than you ever will be.

Degsy wrote: »

Which is why you're waiting tables for peanuts,yeah?
Lol at your delusions of importance now go and get me a waldorf salad.

THAT lack of empathy. Not specific to the thread, your lack of empathy in general.

ozzirt wrote: »

Do you have even the slightest idea of what this maxim implies?

It implies that the customer is paying for the service, therefore you have an obligation to "serve' him. He is paying your wages and without their patronage you would not even have a low paying job, you'd have NO job.

Yes, I do; yes, I did; and yes, if I am ever in the service industry again, I will. But "paying someone's wages" does NOT give you the right to treat another human being like a lower life-form. They "pay my wages" to give a service, no-one "pays my wages" to take abuse.
(Not related to tipping, but to the point rasied above, so apologies for going off topic)

Degsy

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

THAT lack of empathy. Not specific to the thread, your lack of empathy in general.

"In general" isnt relavant to this thread.
You dont know me at all so i suggest you refrain from making anymore personal remarks and stick to your mural painting.

Cactus Col

Degsy wrote: »

I have a job where i serve hundreds of customers a day and i dont get a tip because society doesnt deem my job tipworthy.

Somebody's being watching Reservoir Dogs...

Hagar

Degsy wrote: »

stick to your mural painting.

That's a personal remark, make up your mind, do you want personal remarks allowed or not?

dub_skav

To all those saying they should get another job. Why don't you get another job that leaves you with so much disposable income that you can tip all and sundry.

Ireland is a tipping country, has been for a long time. You're tight, stop trying to justify it.

ozzirt

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Yes, I do; yes, I did; and yes, if I am ever in the service industry again, I will. But "paying someone's wages" does NOT give you the right to treat another human being like a lower life-form. They "pay my wages" to give a service, no-one "pays my wages" to take abuse.
(Not related to tipping, but to the point rasied above, so apologies for going off topic)

No one should have to suffer abuse whilst doing their job. unfortunately there are "pigs" in all countries (my apologies to the real four legged pigs)

I genuinely feel for those who in the course of their employment have to put up with them, but as you say, it really has nothing to do with tipping. In my view a tip is for someone who has gone out of their way to provide exceptional service, it is not an expectation just because a person does their job, whether it be poorly paid or not. Pay is an issue between the employee and the employer and not the customer.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ozzirt wrote: »

No one should have to suffer abuse whilst doing their job. unfortunately there are "pigs" in all countries (my apologies to the real four legged pigs)

I genuinely feel for those who in the course of their employment have to put up with them, but as you say, it really has nothing to do with tipping. In my view a tip is for someone who has gone out of their way to provide exceptional service, it is not an expectation just because a person does their job, whether it be poorly paid or not. Pay is an issue between the employee and the employer and not the customer.

Completely agree - I was just replying to you "customer is always right" comment. Which is a myth.

<snip> Poster does not want his personal details on thread - Hagar <snip>
And you know I'm an mural painter who works in Berlin.

Saruman

dub_skav wrote: »

To all those saying they should get another job. Why don't you get another job that leaves you with so much disposable income that you can tip all and sundry.

Ireland is a tipping country, has been for a long time. You're tight, stop trying to justify it.

Ireland is NOT a tipping country. It is not part of our culture to expect certain people to be tipped. It is not like the US where you have to tip for pretty much everything. Even the bartender gets tipped for each drink, its not like you can pull it yourself and its his job to pour the drink but it is still expected.

This is NOT the case and if you have been going around tipping everyone who pours you a drink and serves you the food you have paid for then... well there are no words to describe it

duffman13

Im a delivery driver, its not great money but its ok. People dont have to tip nor do i expect a tip however roughly 40% of my income comes from tips, i have no problem if people dont tip once they arent rude i.e say nothing and stand there with there hand out looking for change. Im going to give you change put your paw away and wait!!!!!!!

The ignorance of some people, its ridiculous you go to peoples door and they havent got the money ready holy sh*t its bucketing rain for christ sake at least have the money ready and say thanks. In anyway just to let you know drivers remember rude ignorant people and i always leave there orders till last. Am i bitter? ha probably, if you done the job you'd understand. I like my work its the planks you have to deal with that frustrate you, stories i could tell off some customers tightness

dlofnep

Sometimes I tip pizza guys, sometimes I don't. The way I look at it, dominos charges like 15 euro for a pizza - and if you tip a delivery guy - you don't want to tip like 3 euro, because you don't want 2 euro in change, and it will kinda seem stingy - so you sometimes end up just giving them a 20 for the pizza and tell them to keep the change. I tend to tip the same guy - an old chap that has been working there for years, and this foreign chap who I always get a crack off..

Now this isn't feasible everytime. 20 euro for a pizza is just too expensive. I tend not to order from these places anymore and just go to the local chipper which is a 30 second drive away when I can get a pizza for 6 euro. Happy days.

dlofnep

duffman13 wrote: »

Im a delivery driver, its not great money but its ok. People dont have to tip nor do i expect a tip however roughly 40% of my income comes from tips, i have no problem if people dont tip once they arent rude i.e say nothing and stand there with there hand out looking for change. Im going to give you change put your paw away and wait!!!!!!!

The ignorance of some people, its ridiculous you go to peoples door and they havent got the money ready holy sh*t its bucketing rain for christ sake at least have the money ready and say thanks. In anyway just to let you know drivers remember rude ignorant people and i always leave there orders till last. Am i bitter? ha probably, if you done the job you'd understand. I like my work its the planks you have to deal with that frustrate you, stories i could tell off some customers tightness

Just curious - Do you earn minimum wage by virtue? Or do you have to make up minimum wage by including tips?

grundie

I think that in general tipping is a bad thing. Staff should be paid a decent wage and not have to rely on or expect tips.

However, being realistic I know that some service staff have a pretty ****ty job and deserve a tip if they have provided a good service. By that I mean waiting staff only.

I've noticed a lot of city centre bars have placed tip jars on their counters and the staff are not shy about asking for tips. The Market Bar is a particular offender here, they have a big tip jar next to the pumps that says "To Insure Prompt Service" (sic). They can go jump as far as I am concerned. €5.60 for a pint and a tip as well? No way!

I really don't think we should go the way of the USA where tipping is considered normal. The situation there is just weird to me. It's like the price you see is not the price you pay and that you should be prepared to add 20% to the asking price, but no one will tell you to do that - it's just expected and that's an unwritten rule.

Is it not just easier to pay a decent wage to begin with?

duffman13

dlofnep wrote: »

Just curious - Do you earn minimum wage by virtue? Or do you have to make up minimum wage by including tips?

I dont earn minimum wage we get a set amount at the start of the night, then a delivery charge 1.50 per delivery, on a friday we can make up to 130 for 7 hours work thats the tip off the iceberg tho, other nights you struggle to make 80 or 90 bear in mind you have to take 15-20 for petrol but i enjoy the work and some nights you can do well others not so good. I think its important to note drivers dont EXPECT a tip. On average i would make E1 per delivery in tips, some dont tip at all some people are very generous

LightningBolt

Degsy wrote: »

"In general" isnt relavant to this thread.
You dont know me at all so i suggest you refrain from making anymore personal remarks and stick to your mural painting.

Likewise you don't know me at all.

Which is why you're waiting tables for peanuts,yeah?
Lol at your delusions of importance now go and get me a waldorf salad.

I'm off to start a rather good fúckíng job shortly having just finished up my masters. I've no delusions of importance but there's some people who come in and think that the person serving them is worthless, uneducated and only doing the job because it's all they can get. Maybe that's a bit hard for you to understand.

dlofnep

duffman13 wrote: »

I dont earn minimum wage we get a set amount at the start of the night, then a delivery charge 1.50 per delivery, on a friday we can make up to 130 for 7 hours work thats the tip off the iceberg tho, other nights you struggle to make 80 or 90 bear in mind you have to take 15-20 for petrol but i enjoy the work and some nights you can do well others not so good. I think its important to note drivers dont EXPECT a tip. On average i would make E1 per delivery in tips, some dont tip at all some people are very generous

Ah right - I was wondering what people normally tip - if I had 20, and the pizza was 15, I'd normally throw them a fiver, but like I said - it's not feasible everytime. But I don't really order anymore - way too costly. 15 euro for a bit of bread with some cheese and tomato and pepperoni on it is too much.

duffman13

LightningBolt wrote: »

Likewise you don't know me at all.

Which is why you're waiting tables for peanuts,yeah?
Lol at your delusions of importance now go and get me a waldorf salad./QUOTE]

I'm off to start a rather good fúckíng job shortly having just finished up my masters. I've no delusions of importance but there's some people who come in and think that the person serving them is worthless, uneducated and only doing the job because it's all they can get. Maybe that's a bit hard for you to understand.

I have to agree with that one, people look down there noses at me, but they know feck all about me, im studying for a degree and wat bugs me is people actually just need to feel there is somebody below them in the pecking order.

waitinforatrain

dlofnep wrote: »

Ah right - I was wondering what people normally tip - if I had 20, and the pizza was 15, I'd normally throw them a fiver, but like I said - it's not feasible everytime.

:O what did you say your address was?

duffman13

dlofnep wrote: »

Ah right - I was wondering what people normally tip - if I had 20, and the pizza was 15, I'd normally throw them a fiver, but like I said - it's not feasible everytime. But I don't really order anymore - way too costly. 15 euro for a bit of bread with some cheese and tomato and pepperoni on it is too much.

Ha ha i do the same but i dont order from the big places like dominos, you can get a 16" pizza in my place for a tenner, and as the boss likes to tell me he probably still makes 8 euro, pizza is by far the cheapest food to make and sell. I wouldnt expect a tip if it was a good round figure like 20 euro, even if its 20.40 on the delivery id just ask for the 20 im not stingy and dont wanna make it awkward even though that 40 cent is coming out off my pocket. I could tell you some stories

Degsy

LightningBolt wrote: »

Likewise you don't know me at all.



I'm off to start a rather good fúckíng job shortly having just finished up my masters. I've no delusions of importance but there's some people who come in and think that the person serving them is worthless, uneducated and only doing the job because it's all they can get. Maybe that's a bit hard for you to understand.

Not at all.
My problem if i could be said to have one with some waiting staff is that they have the attitude "i'm doing my masters and then i'm out of here so i dont have to be polite or attentive or professsional".
This surly attitude that some people have is most certainly NOT goingto get them a tip,and in a lot of cases i've had to talk to managers about thier attitude.
When you're off in your "rather good fcucking job" you still have to behave within certain parameters..eg punctuality,do the work etc etc and a good place to learn some people skills is in a crappy job like waitering.
Remember this..there are people who work in industries like that as professionals and these are the sort of people who deserve tips..NOT a sour-faced college boy with an attitude problem.

dub_skav

Saruman wrote: »

Ireland is NOT a tipping country. It is not part of our culture to expect certain people to be tipped. It is not like the US where you have to tip for pretty much everything. Even the bartender gets tipped for each drink, its not like you can pull it yourself and its his job to pour the drink but it is still expected.

This is NOT the case and if you have been going around tipping everyone who pours you a drink and serves you the food you have paid for then... well there are no words to describe it

Just because the OP nd yourself have capitalised "NOT" does not make your opinion fact.
The OP actually states that they tip in restaurants actually, invalidating theirown point.

Truth is we are a tipping culture, if only for the fact that we generally tip in restaurants. Just because we don't tip everybody does not mean we are not a tipping culture. In the US they do not tip cinema ushers or deli workers, yet you don't seem to dispute that America has a tipping culture.

Paul Tergat

I HATE the concept of tipping. Really pisses me off that people expect it. :mad:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Got a pizza one day, the driver "had no change" he owed me 4 euro. I asked him how was he going to pay me the 4 euro, "they will credit my account they said". I rang up the pizza place and asked them to deliver me my 4 euro. They did... I never tip, I never will tip, unless the person goes that step further to make my experience with the service that much better. Waiters and waitresses for example. Never tip bar men, or anything of the like... they don't deserve sh!t.

dub_skav

Degsy wrote: »

Not at all.
My problem if i could be said to have one with some waiting staff is that they have the attitude "i'm doing my masters and then i'm out of here so i dont have to be polite or attentive or professsional".
This surly attitude that some people have is most certainly NOT goingto get them a tip,and in a lot of cases i've had to talk to managers about thier attitude.
When you're off in your "rather good fcucking job" you still have to behave within certain parameters..eg punctuality,do the work etc etc and a good place to learn some people skills is in a crappy job like waitering.
Remember this..there are people who work in industries like that as professionals and these are the sort of people who deserve tips..NOT a sour-faced college boy with an attitude problem.

Great post.

While I do believe that we are a tipping nation, I do not believe that all waiting staff are entitled to a tip. Courteous, competent, professional staff I tip, incompetent, rude staff I do not tip.
I even carry this out in the US and have had no problem telling US staff that I am not tipping them because of their attitude.

Degsy

Ayaan Blue Killer wrote: »

Got a pizza one day, the driver "had no change" he owed me 4 euro. I asked him how was he going to pay me the 4 euro, "they will credit my account they said". I rang up the pizza place and asked them to deliver me my 4 euro. They did... I never tip, I never will tip, unless the person goes that step further to make my experience with the service that much better. Waiters and waitresses for example. Never tip bar men, or anything of the like... they don't deserve sh!t.

+1.
Its not like you're getting anything for nothing or even at a good price for that matter.
ireland is an expensive kip and the quality of service as well as the product often leaves a lot to be desired so why tip people for poor service and expensive,bad-quality products?

BDubliner

For myself I would normally tip a delivery driver/waiter whatever once it was prompt and food was good.

On the other hand I would never tip a taxi driver, I find taxis to be extremely overpriced as is, The drivers are usually **** bags who would never leave me alone even if I sit in the back and want to be left alone. The amount of times i've ended up having words with a taxi driver after a night out because the driver goes the long route home because they think im sauced. Even if it was just 50 cent i'd wait there for it even if the driver is doing their usual of looking in every pocket and making a fuss about getting it in the hope I'd get fed up and just say it to them to keep it.

eightyfish

For God's sake, what's up with all the stingy people? If somebody serves you personally - brings drinks to your table, delivers a pizza to your house, carries your luggage in a hotel - you tip them. It doesn't have to be very much, it's just a token gesture. The better the service (fast delivery, courteous serving), the more tips they get. Simple little system.

I have a mate who never, ever tips anyone. It's embarrassing going to a restaurant with him.

CPT. SURF

In the States you should tip pretty much no matter what. People in Ireland don't understand the whole tipping system. It is designed so that uneducated women across the country can still make enough money to support herself and a couple of kids in spite of her lack of professional credentials; its because of the tips. I liken this system to a form of voluntary socialism actually. Even if the service is bad it is better to leave a decent enough tip. Otherwise you undermine the system and more and more people hold back with their tips. No point blaming the rest of the waitresses for one person's errors. Also, if you have ever worked in the service industry you would know that in many businesses the tips are collectively divided up so by tipping poorly you are only hurting the whole group.

My motto is: If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out.

994

I think if you're going to tip, tip someone who doesn't expect it. Your binman, the guy working in a petrol station at 4 a.m., the guy who drives the street-cleaning vehicle.

gillo_100

I don't really think Ireland is a tipping country, or at least if it is it only started heading that way due to stupid American influences.

Personally I don't like tipping even if it is good service, honestly I expect no less from Service staff that is their job.

I previously worked on the Customer Service desk of retail store. My job was dealing with customers, often annoyed customers, in a polite way trying to be as helpful as possible. Despite having to put up with irate customers I didn't recieve anthing extra in the way of tips or of increased wage over other staff who might be in the storeroom and not have to deal with customers at all. So why should waiting staff get extra compensastion for being 'run of their feet' and having to deal with customers.

As for delivery drivers, tbh until reading this thread I would never have even thought of tipping them.

The only people I ever really tip are hairdressers, and thats only really when they throw in a bit of a free scalp massage.

Saruman

dub_skav wrote: »

Just because the OP nd yourself have capitalised "NOT" does not make your opinion fact.
The OP actually states that they tip in restaurants actually, invalidating theirown point.

Truth is we are a tipping culture, if only for the fact that we generally tip in restaurants. Just because we don't tip everybody does not mean we are not a tipping culture. In the US they do not tip cinema ushers or deli workers, yet you don't seem to dispute that America has a tipping culture.

I still disagree. The US is a tipping culture as pretty much everyone does it. It is expected and Americans are shocked if someone does not leave a tip or if the tip does not meet the expected criteria of say 20% in a restaurant in a big city.

Ireland is not because not everyone tips, in fact I reckon more people do not tip than do. I know my family rarely tips and if they do its only because the service was excellent.

They are two very different things. If the majority of Irish tipped then that would be one thing, but they do not as far as I know but I could be wrong.
I have always grown up with the impression that we are not a tipping culture. It is written in guidebooks for tourists that we are not a tipping country and tips are not expected. Nothing but a growing generosity during the celtic tiger years among some people leads me to believe anything has changed.

Perhaps more people tip than they did 20 years ago but it is still not something that is expected or ingrained in our culture that you have to tip certain people and therefore I stand over my capitalisation that we are not a tipping culture.

Degsy

eightyfish wrote: »

For God's sake, what's up with all the stingy people? If somebody serves you personally - brings drinks to your table, delivers a pizza to your house, carries your luggage in a hotel - you tip them. It doesn't have to be very much, it's just a token gesture. The better the service (fast delivery, courteous serving), the more tips they get. Simple little system.

I have a mate who never, ever tips anyone. It's embarrassing going to a restaurant with him.

Its not something they're doing for the good of thier health...its thier job for which they get paid a wage.
Why should they be paid twice??

Celticfire

CPT. SURF wrote: »

In the States you should tip pretty much no matter what. People in Ireland don't understand the whole tipping system. It is designed so that uneducated women across the country can still make enough money to support herself and a couple of kids in spite of her lack of professional credentials; its because of the tips. I liken this system to a form of voluntary socialism actually. Even if the service is bad it is better to leave a decent enough tip. Otherwise you undermine the system and more and more people hold back with their tips. No point blaming the rest of the waitresses for one person's errors. Also, if you have ever worked in the service industry you would know that in many businesses the tips are collectively divided up so by tipping poorly you are only hurting the whole group.

My motto is: If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out.

And my motto is : if you provide sh*t service and have crap manners you can go f**k yourself if you think I'm going to tip you....

Degsy

Can somebody explain to me what is tipworthy about somebody shoving a bag of food at you muttering how much it costs and then tutting as they root through thier pockets for change?
Why should that person be tipped?

axer

LightningBolt wrote: »

Waiter rant: Irish customers learn some table etiquette, there's a sizeable minority over here who have none whatsoever. Seriously, if you're rude, obnoxious, ignorant upon the first interaction I'm going to make you wait longer for everything, I couldn't give a ****é about possibly losing out on a tip. It's not that hard to be courteous to your waiter/waitress for the evening, after all you'd expect the very same in return. When you've been served your food and I ask is it cooked okay for you it's because if there's a problem with it I can have any problem resolved in enough time so that you can actually eat at the same time as your partner/group of friends.

Tell me this as a waiter which would you rather that I tipped you or whether I was nice and courteous to you? i.e. would you be happy not to be tipped if I was very nice and courteous to you instead?

OP: I had given you the thumbs up thanks until I got to the part that said that restaurants are an exception to us being a non-tipping country. I hope you are aware that the minimum wage applies to the service industry as well as any other industry thus they are not more entitled to a tip than any other industry.

Degsy

axer wrote: »

Tell me this as a waiter which would you rather that I tipped you or whether I was nice and courteous to you? i.e. would you be happy not to be tipped if I was very nice and courteous to you instead?
.

A classic example of a wiater with a chip on his shoulder(;)).
The fact is that ALL jobs will to some extent feature customers or colleagues who are unpleasant or rude or whatever..its all part of life's great tapestry and should not be taken personally,especially if your job is to put food in front of them and not bring them home to meet your parents.
If a waiter or whatever cant deal with "difficult" customers they should be working at something else.

CPT. SURF

Celticfire wrote: »

And my motto is : if you provide sh*t service and have crap manners you can go f**k yourself if you think I'm going to tip you....

They can go f**k themselves for thinking something? Wow, that's classy. You either didn't read or understand the part where I mentioned that many businesses collectively pool tips so by tipping badly you are only hurting the group of staff.

Most people working for tips are low on cash in general; working students, mothers, uneducated, etc. They don't make good money and as has been said they are often on poor wages.

But sure I'd say you never tip anyway so it doesn't matter, you are probably more likely to tell someone to f**k themself or something. Go you, you're the man dude

grundie

CPT. SURF wrote: »

In the States you should tip pretty much no matter what. People in Ireland don't understand the whole tipping system. It is designed so that uneducated women across the country can still make enough money to support herself and a couple of kids in spite of her lack of professional credentials; its because of the tips.

I beg to differ.

In many US states employers in service industries do not pay their staff minimum wage. Instead, the staff are paid from tips (tronc) and if they fail to meet minimum wage, then the employers top it up.

I know several people who are employed in such jobs and they admit this system has it's pros and cons.

They might have a great night and make way more than minimum wage. For example Christmas parties usually results in windfalls for service staff. It also encourages staff to offer better service in the hope of getting bigger tips.

The downside to this system is that it is exploited by employers to ensure they pay as little wages as possible.

If I go in to a bar or restaurant I would prefer to buy a single 'package' I.E. One payment to the business owner which cover all costs incurred in serving me, including staff wages. The tipping system used in the US service industry effectively requires me to engage two separate parties for the supply of a service - pay the owner for the drink, pay the staff member for serving me. That to me is a silly system. I would rather that bar and restaurant owners paid their staff a proper wage and that tips were an addition to basic salary.

CPT. SURF

grundie wrote: »

I beg to differ.

In many US states employers in service industries do not pay their staff minimum wage. Instead, the staff are paid from tips (tronc) and if they fail to meet minimum wage, then the employers top it up.

I know several people who are employed in such jobs and they admit this system has it's pros and cons.

They might have a great night and make way more than minimum wage. For example Christmas parties usually results in windfalls for service staff. It also encourages staff to offer better service in the hope of getting bigger tips.

The downside to this system is that it is exploited by employers to ensure they pay as little wages as possible.

If I go in to a bar or restaurant I would prefer to buy a single 'package' I.E. One payment to the business owner which cover all costs incurred in serving me, including staff wages. The tipping system used in the US service industry effectively requires me to engage two separate parties for the supply of a service - pay the owner for the drink, pay the staff member for serving me. That to me is a silly system. I would rather that bar and restaurant owners paid their staff a proper wage and that tips were an addition to basic salary.

I like your line of thinking but I believe there may be more problems with it because of the section I highlighted in bold.

Most of the businesses where people are paid low wages it is because the business owner himself is living paycheck to paycheck. Especially if he has just opened up his first pizza shop for example. He can't really afford to pay his drivers 7/8 bucks an hour. To inflict a necessary minimum wage payment on all small business owners like him would discourage him from even opening his shop in the first place. So that great little local pizza place gets driven (literally) out of business by Domino's, Pizza Hut, etc.

The tipping system as it stands supports small business owners and their employees. It helps that things in the States are generally not as overpriced as Ireland, where tipping may seem for the more reactionary people among us like just another rip-off.

the_syco

I tip the pizza guys, as it ensures my pizza comes quickly. Sure, I could not tip, but then I'd be waiting a longer time.

LightningBolt

Degsy wrote: »

Not at all.
My problem if i could be said to have one with some waiting staff is that they have the attitude "i'm doing my masters and then i'm out of here so i dont have to be polite or attentive or professsional".
This surly attitude that some people have is most certainly NOT goingto get them a tip,and in a lot of cases i've had to talk to managers about thier attitude.
When you're off in your "rather good fcucking job" you still have to behave within certain parameters..eg punctuality,do the work etc etc and a good place to learn some people skills is in a crappy job like waitering.
Remember this..there are people who work in industries like that as professionals and these are the sort of people who deserve tips..NOT a sour-faced college boy with an attitude problem.

I don't have that attitude and if you look at my original post I didn't say that I have that attitude. I purposely split the post into two parts, the first saying if someone doesn't tip me, that's fine. At the end of the day it's their money and they can spend it as they wish.

If you have someone acting a total pig towards you how would you react? Seriously, if a person shows no basic manners towards me I'm not going to do anything above and beyond basic service. If I'm looking after five tables and four of them are really nice whilst one is pretty rude you'll be damn sure that the nice people are going to get my attention first.

Yes there is waiting staff who act pretty rude for no reason and some of them will have the attitude of "fúck it i'm out of here"

What has punctuality got to do with people skills? It's pretty much common sense that you show up on time for work.

You tip me/don't tip me = It's appreciated/It doesn't bother me

Show no manners towards me = Why should I serve you as quick as someone who is actually shows some.

@Axer: Being honest I'd much rather serve people who are nice and have very few "demands" without a tip at the end as oppossed to having to serve people who are rude even though they may tip.

grundie

CPT. SURF wrote: »

The tipping system as it stands supports small business owners and their employees. It helps that things in the States are generally not as overpriced as Ireland, where tipping may seem for the more reactionary people among us like just another rip-off.

It also discriminates against those who had a bad start in life.

If you have no qualifications, but want to make a go of yourself then you could take a minimum wage job in somewhere like Centra, Spar or McDonalds. It's true that these aren't great jobs, but you will get a predictable salary and you will be under less pressure to push yourself past the limit to try and coax tips out of customers.

If you end up in a job where your tips make up your basic salary then you may be forced to perform way beyond what is required. Even if you do have a great night and make above minimum wage then you will still have knackered yourself in the process.

OK, I'll admit some people like working for tips, but I still feel that it is a system that sometimes exploits those who didn't ave a great start in life.

LightningBolt

Degsy wrote: »

A classic example of a wiater with a chip on his shoulder(;)).
The fact is that ALL jobs will to some extent feature customers or colleagues who are unpleasant or rude or whatever..its all part of life's great tapestry and should not be taken personally,especially if your job is to put food in front of them and not bring them home to meet your parents.
If a waiter or whatever cant deal with "difficult" customers they should be working at something else.

I understand what you're saying. I'm under no illusions that the job I currently do is the only one where you encounter difficult customers. I've served lots of nice people who've been unbelievably difficult, I don't mind doing that as it's my job. Come in and be rude and make demands, I'm sorry but you're not getting the same level of attention from me.