Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

thebullkf

genericguy wrote: »

and what, may i ask, did you find irrational about my post?

not your post......;)

the guy who did the damage wasn't rational.....

SV

thebullkf wrote: »

maybe thats part of the problem.

What problem?

oppenheimer1

Irish Times wrote:

GARDAÍ INVESTIGATING the fatal stabbing at the Creane family home in Bray, Co Wicklow, last weekend have established that Shane Clancy drove to an all-night shop and bought knives after leaving Sebastian Creane home from a nightclub.
Clancy, a 22-year-old Trinity student from Dalkey, Co Dublin, then drove back to the Creane home at Cuala Grove, Bray, and stabbed Mr Creane to death with one of the knives. Mr Creane’s girlfriend, Jennifer Hannigan, from Killiney, Co Dublin, was stabbed in the back in the attack and his brother Dylan (28) was stabbed eight times. Both survived.
Garda sources say Clancy bought a block of knives from a shop between 3.30am and 4am on Sunday. Detectives are studying CCTV footage from a major retailer.
One of the knives bought was used in the stabbing. The remainder were found in Clancy’s car. Gardaí say the development in the case shows the attack was planned. Clancy had previously been in a relationship with Ms Hannigan and is believed to have carried out the stabbings because he was jealous of her new relationship with her fellow design student Sebastian Creane.
When he stabbed Ms Hannigan, the blade of Clancy’s knife lodged in her back. Clancy then grabbed a knife from the kitchen of the Creane home and used it to stab graphic designer Dylan Creane when he came from his bedroom to help his dying brother.
Clancy was later found fatally stabbed in the chest in the back garden of the Creane house. Gardaí are not seeking anybody for that death.
Despite being in the same group socialising on Saturday night, Sebastian Creane and Clancy were not friends. Mr Creane (22) had gone out with two friends, all former students at St Gerard’s in Bray, to the Eagle House pub in Sandycove.
They met a schoolfriend there who was with five people, including Clancy.
The group moved to the Queen’s Pub in Dalkey and on to the nearby Vico club. After the club, Clancy, who had not been drinking, offered to drive Sebastian Creane and his two friends home to Bray. Gardaí believe he did this to end the night alone with Sebastian Creane and to establish exactly where he lived.
Sebastian Creane’s two friends got out of the car at their house in Bray.Clancy then dropped Sebastian Creane home to Cuala Grove, arriving at about 3.30am.
From there, Clancy drove to a shop some distance away and purchased the knives. When he got back to the Creane home at about 4.30am to carry out the attack, Ms Hannigan had arrived from a night out with her own friends.
It is unclear if Clancy forced his way into the house or rang the door bell. Gardaí are hopeful Ms Hannigan and Dylan Creane will be able to provide answers when they are well enough to be interviewed.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times

From reading that, the killings seem to have been planned. I don't think it could be called a crime of passion, even if the motive was the relationship with the girl.

If you're going to call this a scumbag thing to do, well you have to define what a scumbag is. The more I read about this story, the less I think of it as being a tragedy (in that instance everyone is a victim) and more like a cold blooded murder.

genericguy

thebullkf wrote: »

not your post......;)

the guy who did the damage wasn't rational.....

touché...

thebullkf

SV wrote: »

What problem?

problems we see surfacing every day in the news,and peoples indifference
and/or inability to do anything about it or just plain not bothering their arse's to do anything as it doesn't directly affect them.
I can list many examples-the woman recently in the states who collapsed and died in a HOSPITAL waitin room.....died-left on the floor for 20 mins.
the incest case recently in ireland-somebody knew something..didn't get involved-didn't care about the other peoples circumstances.
people either 2 busy or 2 indifferent or for whatever reason....

saddens me.

you should care about the circumstances,
we all should.

only by uinderstanding the WHY
of things can we begin to be pro-active as opposed to re-active.

anonymous_joe

It's depressing how people think that this is just an excuse to have a go at middle class people.

One of my best mate's knows the victim, it's a horrible tragedy, and something that's scarily believable. Someone I was in school with a long time ago is in prison for killing someone, they were bullied and treated like shít and snapped. In this case, someone who was clearly unwell has done something few of us can fathom. And that's the point, we don't know why and what happened, is it really fair to speculate?

thebullkf

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

From reading that, the killings seem to have been planned. I don't think it could be called a crime of passion, even if the motive was the relationship with the girl.

If you're going to call this a scumbag thing to do, well you have to define what a scumbag is. The more I read about this story, the less I think of it as being a tragedy (in that instance everyone is a victim) and more like a cold blooded murder.

+1

sounds,devious,pre-meditated and downright awful to me.

wonder was it suicide...-either way both families have an unimaginable burden to carry for the rest of their lives.

SV

thebullkf wrote: »

problems we see surfacing every day in the news,and peoples indifference
and/or inability to do anything about it or just plain not bothering their arse's to do anything as it doesn't directly affect them.
I can list many examples-the woman recently in the states who collapsed and died in a HOSPITAL waitin room.....died-left on the floor for 20 mins.
the incest case recently in ireland-somebody knew something..didn't get involved-didn't care about the other peoples circumstances.
people either 2 busy or 2 indifferent or for whatever reason....

saddens me.

you should care about the circumstances,
we all should.

only by uinderstanding the WHY
of things can we begin to be pro-active as opposed to re-active.

first off re: the bold part that's nothing to do with my post.

and I don't believe the circumstances should matter.
the act was the same and the end result was the same.

thebullkf

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's depressing how people think that this is just an excuse to have a go at middle class people.

One of my best mate's knows the victim, it's a horrible tragedy, and something that's scarily believable. Someone I was in school with a long time ago is in prison for killing someone, they were bullied and treated like shít and snapped. In this case, someone who was clearly unwell has done something few of us can fathom. And that's the point, we don't know why and what happened, is it really fair to speculate?

its in the public domain.would you rather not know about it??
i know the say ignorance is bliss but ......
btw....whats the middle class comment all about??

thebullkf

SV wrote: »

first off re: the bold part that's nothing to do with my post-then why highlight it??

and I don't believe the circumstances should matter.
the act was the same and the end result was the same.

same as what?

someone stabbed=someone dead
somone guilty=someone innocent.....is it that black and white for you?/

Dudess

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's depressing how people think that this is just an excuse to have a go at middle class people.

Ah I don't think people are having a go at middle-class people - just having a go at how there would be far more "typical scum" type remarks if it happened in a deprived area.

anonymous_joe

thebullkf wrote: »

its in the public domain.would you rather not know about it??
i know the say ignorance is bliss but ......
btw....whats the middle class comment all about??

Well tbh, I'd rather know the truth than have people speculating.

And the middle class comment was about how many people were going on about middle class attitudes to crime, etc. Class has nothing to do with a tragedy like this.

Bubblefett

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's depressing how people think that this is just an excuse to have a go at middle class people.

One of my best mate's knows the victim, it's a horrible tragedy, and something that's scarily believable. Someone I was in school with a long time ago is in prison for killing someone, they were bullied and treated like shít and snapped. In this case, someone who was clearly unwell has done something few of us can fathom. And that's the point, we don't know why and what happened, is it really fair to speculate?

Thank you Anonymous joe. I work in dalkey and have had 4 reporters come into my store in the past 2 days trying to find out information about Shane and if i knew any past stories of him or any details of the attack.
I did know Shane and would know Jen as an acquaintance (and this is not open to discussion!) but i told the reporters i knew nothing.
However I have friends involved who have told anyone who'd listen every single rumour they've heard. This is because they're hurt and devastated by what's happened.
The fact is we don't know what happened and won't until either the police release a report or one of the surviours speaks out.

SV

thebullkf wrote: »

same as what?

someone stabbed=someone dead
somone guilty=someone innocent.....is it that black and white for you?/

Eh, what?!



and it's as black and white as I see no difference in this case than your run of the mill scumbag stabbing someone over drugs.

Am I expected to think of it completely differently because this guys scumbag side came out only once?

Dudess

Why do people keep saying we don't know what happened? Eh... we do. At least the main part.

Dudess

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Class has nothing to do with a tragedy like this.

Of course it doesn't, but it does affect how it's reported/viewed.

thebullkf

SV wrote: »

Eh, what?!



and it's as black and white as I see no difference in this case than your run of the mill scumbag stabbing someone over drugs.

Am I expected to think of it completely differently because this guys scumbag side came out only once?

i didn't say that.
but for instance if you read a pensioner had been tortured,robbed and killed by a teenager-

then you find out the teen was abused etc over a sustained period of time
till he reached the point of oblivion would you feel the same way as youdid initially

i.e.
"and I don't believe the circumstances should matter.
the act was the same and the end result was the same. "

DigiGal

Can't wait to see what Ryan"I'm a rich plank"Tubridy has to say about this....

SV

thebullkf wrote: »

i didn't say that.
but for instance if you read a pensioner had been tortured,robbed and killed by a teenager-

then you find out the teen was abused etc over a sustained period of time
till he reached the point of oblivion would you feel the same way as youdid initially

i.e.
"and I don't believe the circumstances should matter.
the act was the same and the end result was the same. "

Would I feel the same?
no, I wouldn't. I am only human.

but I still don't believe the circumstances should matter.

thebullkf

SV wrote: »

Eh, what?!



and it's as black and white as I see no difference in this case than your run of the mill scumbag stabbing someone over drugs.

Am I expected to think of it completely differently because this guys scumbag side came out only once?

thats part of my point....this isn't run of the mill.

WHY????

what drove that young man to such extremes?

not just jealousy

christ we've all been jealous-hurt-rejected-angry

but never resorted to such manifestations of anger as this.

SherryD

Being a scumbag has nothing to do with the area you area from, I've known some scumbags from Ballsbridge and some genuinely lovely people from Tallaght and Ballymun. As someone who actually knew Shane he was not a scumbag, anyone who had met him even for a brief time would tell you he was a lovely guy and always friendly. As far as I'm aware its only one or two papers reporting it was premeditated, we just don't know the facts. I'm not excusing what he did, because it was a horrible despicible crime, but he obviously was not in a right state of mind and needed help which sadly he did not get. We can all easily say we'd never do something like that but at the end of the day if any of us were that desperate and clearly ill we do not know what we would be capable of.

anonymous_joe

Dudess wrote: »

Of course it doesn't, but it does affect how it's reported/viewed.

It can do inevitably, but it's not really fair to use such a tragedy as a stick to beat the media with.

K-9

I'm sure it has been referenced on AH, Katy French?

It is more shocking when the middle classes get affected.

DigiGal

thebullkf wrote: »

thats part of my point....this isn't run of the mill.

WHY????

what drove that young man to such extremes?

not just jealousy

christ we've all been jealous-hurt-rejected-angry

but never resorted to such manifestations of anger as this.

Its possible he was already mentally unstable, he would have to be to react to feelings with such extremes....he was prob suffering form an undiagnosed mental illness

SV

thebullkf wrote: »

thats part of my point....this isn't run of the mill.

WHY????

what drove that young man to such extremes?

not just jealousy

christ we've all been jealous-hurt-rejected-angry

but never resorted to such manifestations of anger as this.

Well maybe he did have scumbag tendencies which only surfaced when someone did this to him?

you have a sheltered life and the things which most people can deal with take over. I'm not saying this is what happened though.

thebullkf

SV wrote: »

Would I feel the same?
no, I wouldn't. I am only human.

but I still don't believe the circumstances should matter.

how can you deem circumstances irrelevant to anything?????

circumstance dictates our lives-
cause and effect.
i.e.
i don't go into work ten days in a row = i'm fired
i'm hungry-ergo i eat.
what circumstances caused this-cos they're not irrelevant.
they DO matter.
if you don't believe so-fair enough i respect your right to believe what you like.

zuroph

SherryD wrote: »

Being a scumbag has nothing to do with the area you area from, I've known some scumbags from Ballsbridge and some genuinely lovely people from Tallaght and Ballymun. As someone who actually knew Shane he was not a scumbag, anyone who had met him even for a brief time would tell you he was a lovely guy and always friendly. As far as I'm aware its only one or two papers reporting it was premeditated, we just don't know the facts. I'm not excusing what he did, because it was a horrible despicible crime, but he obviously was not in a right state of mind and needed help which sadly he did not get. We can all easily say we'd never do something like that but at the end of the day if any of us were that desperate and clearly ill we do not know what we would be capable of.

If i did it, I'd accept it was a scumbag thing to do.

thebullkf

SherryD wrote: »

Being a scumbag has nothing to do with the area you area from, I've known some scumbags from Ballsbridge and some genuinely lovely people from Tallaght and Ballymun. As someone who actually knew Shane he was not a scumbag, anyone who had met him even for a brief time would tell you he was a lovely guy and always friendly. As far as I'm aware its only one or two papers reporting it was premeditated, we just don't know the facts. I'm not excusing what he did, because it was a horrible despicible crime, but he obviously was not in a right state of mind and needed help which sadly he did not get. We can all easily say we'd never do something like that but at the end of the day if any of us were that desperate and clearly ill we do not know what we would be capable of.

well put.
didn't know theguy-sorry for your loss.

thebullkf

zuroph wrote: »

If i did it, I'd accept it was a scumbag thing to do.

you would in your present state of mind.
as you obviously abhor such a crime.
...................................................................
but if you did it-would you be in your present state of mind??
i doubt it .

zuroph

thebullkf wrote: »

you would in your present state of mind.
as you obviously abhor such a crime.
...................................................................
but if you did it-would you be in your present state of mind??
i doubt it .

Is any killer ever in a sane state of mind when committing the act? He may have had an underlying mental problem, that reamains to be disclosed, but for now, it reads like he just lost the rag and failed to control his emotions. He drove and bought knives. Premeditated. That was scumbaggy enough.

JONJO THE MISER

SherryD wrote: »

Being a scumbag has nothing to do with the area you area from, I've known some scumbags from Ballsbridge and some genuinely lovely people from Tallaght and Ballymun. As someone who actually knew Shane he was not a scumbag, anyone who had met him even for a brief time would tell you he was a lovely guy and always friendly. As far as I'm aware its only one or two papers reporting it was premeditated, we just don't know the facts. I'm not excusing what he did, because it was a horrible despicible crime, but he obviously was not in a right state of mind and needed help which sadly he did not get. We can all easily say we'd never do something like that but at the end of the day if any of us were that desperate and clearly ill we do not know what we would be capable of.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0819/1224252874168.html

Please, it just says in the article that he premeditated it, he first drove him home to see where he lived, then went to the supermarket to buy knives and kill one person and Injure 2 others, a Psycho pure and simple and yet people say on here he was a lovely guy:mad:.

SV

edit: ugh, nevermind.
done with this.

SherryD

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0819/1224252874168.html

Please, it just says in the article that he premeditated it, he first drove him home to see where he lived, then went to the supermarket to buy knives and kill one person and Injure 2 others, a Psycho pure and simple and yet people say on here he was a lovely guy:mad:.

I had not seen that article. Like I said before I am in no way condoning his actions. I can't make you change your mind about your views on Shane, if I didn't know him I might have thought the same, but I did know him, and have for several years. I do know he was a lovely guy and he has clearly been unwell. In a way I do hope you never can understand my position because its taken a friend's death in tragic circumstances for me to realise that these stories are never black and white.

Gary ITR

If I'd have done this where I'm from (Inchicore) people on here would be talking about how it's only 2 scumbags from inner city Dublin dead.

This was not the act of a decent person. This was the act of somebody who had an evil heart and mind. It wasn't a 'moment of madness' if he actually went to the shop and bought the bloody knives. He went out with murder on his mind.

If it was one of my friends or a family member that did this I would condemn them to the last

Bubblefett

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0819/1224252874168.html

Please, it just says in the article that he premeditated it, he first drove him home to see where he lived, then went to the supermarket to buy knives and kill one person and Injure 2 others, a Psycho pure and simple and yet people say on here he was a lovely guy:mad:.

That's a bit of an overly aggressive a message to post to someone who was one of his friends and odviously still upset.
Glad you made you're point.
The angry face really hammered it home.

thebullkf

zuroph wrote: »

Is any killer ever in a sane state of mind when committing the act? He may have had an underlying mental problem, that reamains to be disclosed, but for now, it reads like he just lost the rag and failed to control his emotions. He drove and bought knives. Premeditated. That was scumbaggy enough.

thats my point.

Terry

Splendour wrote: »

Of course it doesn't make it ok, but in anger we are all capable of doing things we regret. We don't know the state of this guys mind when he commited this crime so we cannot say if he was evil or sick.
I don't think we can compare this guy to lads who go out every weekend with knives looking for trouble.

Carry a knife: Your a wanker scumbag.

Mike... wrote: »

Isn't your last thread the same as what I said when you warned me with "you stay quiet too."

What gives?

STFU

kazza90210 wrote: »

I cant believe this thread hasnt been closed, he wasnt a "scumbag" and whats in the papers isnt the real story and none of you know the facts and what happened before saturday night.

I know this a public forum and people are intitled to their opinions but not knowing the people and just coming out and saying some of the stuff that has been said here is digusting.

Im not saying it wasnt a crime, but there was alot more behind this and I personally find it very hurtful to see the way some people just want to have a their say no matter how hurtful some people may find it.

Stabbing someone makes you a scumbag.
Been stabbed?
Read on.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... wrote: »

I suppose on a technical note he wouldn't be a criminal - as he hasn't been charged with any crime, for obvious reasons.

I just think the whole thing is a tragedy. We would all know someone like this lad who gets obsessed with a girl and won't give up the notion. 99.9999% percent of people get over it, but some tiny percent of people just aren't made that way.

He is an absolutely terrible horrible person for doing this, but he is not a scumbag.

Been stabbed?
Read on.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's depressing how people think that this is just an excuse to have a go at middle class people.

One of my best mate's knows the victim, it's a horrible tragedy, and something that's scarily believable. Someone I was in school with a long time ago is in prison for killing someone, they were bullied and treated like shít and snapped. In this case, someone who was clearly unwell has done something few of us can fathom. And that's the point, we don't know why and what happened, is it really fair to speculate?

Been stabbed?
Read on.

SherryD wrote: »

Being a scumbag has nothing to do with the area you area from, I've known some scumbags from Ballsbridge and some genuinely lovely people from Tallaght and Ballymun. As someone who actually knew Shane he was not a scumbag, anyone who had met him even for a brief time would tell you he was a lovely guy and always friendly. As far as I'm aware its only one or two papers reporting it was premeditated, we just don't know the facts. I'm not excusing what he did, because it was a horrible despicible crime, but he obviously was not in a right state of mind and needed help which sadly he did not get. We can all easily say we'd never do something like that but at the end of the day if any of us were that desperate and clearly ill we do not know what we would be capable of.

Been stabbed?

I've been stabbed.
Wasn't a bad wound, but it hurt and it bled. I also had to be tested for hepatitis (I'm clean).
I'd class the person who stabbed me as a scumbag.
I have no idea of his background, but the mother****er stabbed me because I didn't live in the same town as him.

Now he may have had a tough upbringing or he may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Either way, the **** stabbed me.

Anyone who stabs someone else is a scumbag. I don't care what any of you may think of that person. He ****ing killed someone else.
He took the life of someone.
There is someone dead today who would be alive had they not been stabbed to death.
Is that ok because the guy had some friends>?
Fúck no.

How about I kill one of you. Will it be ok because I have friends who will speak well of me?
Fúck no. I'd be a scumbag.
Cop the fúck on.
Anyone who deliberately murders another person is a scumbag.

Terry

SherryD wrote: »

I had not seen that article. Like I said before I am in no way condoning his actions. I can't make you change your mind about your views on Shane, if I didn't know him I might have thought the same, but I did know him, and have for several years. I do know he was a lovely guy and he has clearly been unwell. In a way I do hope you never can understand my position because its taken a friend's death in tragic circumstances for me to realise that these stories are never black and white.

It was a moment of madness when I stole my friend's van and tried to kill myself.
The thing is, I went out of my way to not physically harm anyone else.
It was the act of a scumbag. I am a scumbag for doing it. All of my friends can come along and say otherwise, but I know in my heart that I did wrong.

The problem with this incident is that people are trying to place the blame on others.
Personal responsibility needs to be mentioned here.
If you deliberately set out to kill someone, then you are a murdering scumbag. It's as simple as that.

SherryD

Terry wrote: »

Been stabbed?

I've been stabbed.
Wasn't a bad wound, but it hurt and it bled. I also had to be tested for hepatitis (I'm clean).
I'd class the person who stabbed me as a scumbag.
I have no idea of his background, but the mother****er stabbed me because I didn't live in the same town as him.

Now he may have had a tough upbringing or he may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Either way, the **** stabbed me.

Anyone who stabs someone else is a scumbag. I don't care what any of you may think of that person. He ****ing killed someone else.
He took the life of someone.
There is someone dead today who would be alive had they not been stabbed to death.
Is that ok because the guy had some friends>?
Fúck no.

How about I kill one of you. Will it be ok because I have friends who will speak well of me?
Fúck no. I'd be a scumbag.
Cop the fúck on.
Anyone who deliberately murders another person is a scumbag.

Thankfully no I haven't been stabbed, but I have had a knife put to me on two occasions and luckily have been saved by others. One of the men who did it to me? Yes a complete scumbag. The other? No, a man who was mentally unstable.

zuroph

SherryD wrote: »

I had not seen that article. Like I said before I am in no way condoning his actions. I can't make you change your mind about your views on Shane, if I didn't know him I might have thought the same, but I did know him, and have for several years. I do know he was a lovely guy and he has clearly been unwell. In a way I do hope you never can understand my position because its taken a friend's death in tragic circumstances for me to realise that these stories are never black and white.

bubblefett wrote: »

That's a bit of an overly aggressive a message to post to someone who was one of his friends and odviously still upset.
Glad you made you're point.
The angry face really hammered it home.

Sherry,

I'd suggest that this is all a bit raw to you at the moment, and perhaps, right now, arguing on internet forums as to whether your friend was a scumbag or not is not going to achieve anything good for you, or help you deal with it. For your own sake, i suggest you avoid threads like this for the time being.

Bubble,

The thread exists to discuss the issue, and just because someone says they know the killer doesnt mean the conversation is over.

MarkHobBray1977

Lots of emotion here , but its as simple as this in my eyes....

The guy killed someone...He is a murderer and a criminal...simple....

My heart goes out to BOTH families involved...But the FACTS are that this young lad PURPOSELY killed someone... Scumbag , knacker , name calling means nothing...He is a murderer....All other issues , such as class , his upbringing etc...dont come into it

RIP to the deceased

Sharpshooter

Terry wrote: »

Carry a knife: Your a wanker scumbag.



STFU



Stabbing someone makes you a scumbag.
Been stabbed?
Read on.



Been stabbed?
Read on.



Been stabbed?
Read on.



Been stabbed?

I've been stabbed.
Wasn't a bad wound, but it hurt and it bled. I also had to be tested for hepatitis (I'm clean).
I'd class the person who stabbed me as a scumbag.
I have no idea of his background, but the mother****er stabbed me because I didn't live in the same town as him.

Now he may have had a tough upbringing or he may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Either way, the **** stabbed me.

Anyone who stabs someone else is a scumbag. I don't care what any of you may think of that person. He ****ing killed someone else.
He took the life of someone.
There is someone dead today who would be alive had they not been stabbed to death.
Is that ok because the guy had some friends>?
Fúck no.

How about I kill one of you. Will it be ok because I have friends who will speak well of me?
Fúck no. I'd be a scumbag.
Cop the fúck on.
Anyone who deliberately murders another person is a scumbag.

Circumstances.

You are concentrating on the deed and not what led up to it

Don't get me wrong here but the only people who know what happened for definite are the ones in the scenario.

According to posts here from people who knew the guy, none of them can believe it.

thebullkf

Terry wrote: »

It was a moment of madness when I stole my friend's van and tried to kill myself.
The thing is, I went out of my way to not physically harm anyone else.
It =was the act of a scumbag. I am a scumbag for doing it. All of my friends can come along and say otherwise, but I know in my heart that I did wrong.










The problem with this incident is that people are trying to place the blame on others.
Personal responsibility needs to be mentioned here.
If you deliberately set out to kill someone, then you are a murdering scumbag. It's as simple as that.

+1+1+1+1+1

humberklog

Driven derangement, insane jealousy, the gnawing erosion of his status speeded by anxiety is more than likely not something that had visited this young man before and he was mentally ill equipped to handle these emotions.
Catastrophic, depressingly pointless but these blips on the human condition have occured since we wandered as a species out of the cave hand in hand. I don't consider that to be a scumbag.

Been stabbed? Yep...in the ankle of all places and by a scumbag.
Been punched by a jealous boyfriend? Yep, he wasn't a scumbag though.

thebullkf

MarkHobBray1977 wrote: »

Lots of emotion here , but its as simple as this in my eyes....

The guy killed someone...He is a murderer and a criminal...simple....

My heart goes out to BOTH families involved...But the FACTS are that this young lad PURPOSELY killed someone... Scumbag , knacker , name calling means nothing...He is a murderer....All other issues , such as class , his upbringing etc...dont come into it

RIP to the deceased

wrong...wrong....wrong....

your environment shapes you,
i know good people with horrific parents,conversely i know assholes with superb parents.
Fact remains both sets of parents had some sort of influence on these people-most of us try and use the good whilst ignoring the bad-some don't.(i am NOT blaming that guys family)

likewise for our environments-i have true friends from josephs mansions,ballymun,southill in limerick...
who've taken their poxy upbringing and turned it into something positive-
they are the minority alas.

point remains-something made him this way,some switch obviously went off in his head-not saying his family,class etc caused it but it had a part to play,maybe infinitismal....he didn't just decide to murder someone-he snapped.
some of the comments made here by ALL posters, MODS included are disgraceful.-emotion riding high.

May god rest their souls,grant the families peace.
goodnight.;)

MarkHobBray1977

people trying to justify or "understand" this horrible crime , cause of his " circumstances" actual sicken me....

my last post on this......

Murder is murder....no matter if you are a king or gypsy .... ure personal life circumstances dont lead you to murder....

thats the problem with people today...trying "understand" everything..FFS...wrong is just wrong, murder is murder.... GET A GRIP !

ill leave it for the rest of you to debate from here...

all the best

Sharpshooter

MarkHobBray1977 wrote: »

Murder is murder....no matter if you are a king or gypsy .... ure personal life circumstances dont lead you to murder....

I think you will find that you are posting in a thread where the topic is just that.

MarkHobBray1977

hence my point.

good night

Mike...

thebullkf wrote: »

fair question,i know you question mods privately BUT mike was dismissed
in public.
surely you're allowed to respond in kind-mod or not

Thanks for the support man

thebullkf wrote: »

not so fair methinks

or should this be in feedback??

Starting a thread in feedback now

Terry wrote: »

STFU

I have left a thread on the Feedback forum regarding your response.

Owwmykneecap

Wow what an utterly awful thread, people of all angles trying to shoehorn in the political and class philosophies on the back of a double murder suicide.

Class has nothing to do with it , and as for the "knifecrime" issue, that's about the difference between someone who goes out with weapons on purpose, and someone who uses a weapon (possibly just nearby), during an incident.
At the time, it seemed he didn't plan his attack.
That might have changed.

As for the notion that why he did it doesn't matter, how are we supposed to prevent it happening again?
Typical Irish response; just forget about it, it won't bring them back.

No, it won't but maybe just maybe we could help prevent a repeat.

I actually knew the guy and thought he was a bit out there, but i wouldnt have thought he'd do something like this.

It shows how we need to have proper mental health strategies in this country, implemented in schools while people are still young.
No one normal does something like this.

Anyway this whole thing is just ****ing awful and an absolute senseless waste, to just forget about it would be a crime