Bray incident 'Not a knifecrime' because they came from good families

lostexpectation

im sure i had tom dunne in the title in this thread, he was the one to say the stupid thing, i was nearly going to post in the tom dunne radio thread or media instead of ah

again mr tom dunne how was it not a knife crime?

and the rest of the media how was this tragedy as opposed to slaughter

is the general reaction to these types of events to do with remorse?

the fabled yob on the street who attacks you viciously cos he's bored and laughs about it and shows no remorse in court is that different to a guy who kills himself after he kills someone...

but perhaps killing yourself afterwards is a way to evade the consequences and punishment and could be seen as equally remorseless and cowardly

FlutterinBantam

Dudess wrote: »

How the guy who did it "isn't a scumbag" is beyond me...

I'm pretty shocked by the snobbery on AH (yes, really) - some posts on the thread about the babies born to different members of the same family are actually a bit depressing...

Class politics can be so nasty (I watched the film Lawn Dogs, about that very thing, last night - nearly had me in tears) - and I've made similar objections to reverse snobbery here, so no, I'm not "trying to be PC"...

With all due respect that is a load of rubbish.

Had the guy any previous history of violence?
Was he "known to the gardaí"?
Was there a history of anti social activity in his family?

Of course what he did was totally wrong in the extreme, but while in no way excusing it, seems to have been a crime of passion, a one off .
Who knows how any of ones children will turn out,and who knows that despite doing everything "right",that something somewhere will tip them off the rails and do something that has such terrible consequences as what happened in Bray.

To call someone like that a "scumbag" is totally off the wall and smacks of another agenda or chip on ones shoulder.

Micilin Muc

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

With all due respect that is a load of rubbish.

Had the guy any previous history of violence?
Was he "known to the gardaí"?
Was there a history of anti social activity in his family?

Of course what he did was totally wrong in the extreme, but while in no way excusing it, seems to have been a crime of passion, a one off .
Who knows how any of ones children will turn out,and who knows that despite doing everything "right",that something somewhere will tip them off the rails and do something that has such terrible consequences as what happened in Bray.

To call someone like that a "scumbag" is totally off the wall and smacks of another agenda or chip on ones shoulder.

Calling someone a 'scumbag' is also an easy way to distance yourself from that person's actions.

Recognising that this person was actually a normal person takes maturity and wisdom. He was no different to the rest of us.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

With all due respect that is a load of rubbish.

Had the guy any previous history of violence?
Was he "known to the gardaí"?
Was there a history of anti social activity in his family?

Of course what he did was totally wrong in the extreme, but while in no way excusing it, seems to have been a crime of passion, a one off .
Who knows how any of ones children will turn out,and who knows that despite doing everything "right",that something somewhere will tip them off the rails and do something that has such terrible consequences as what happened in Bray.

To call someone like that a "scumbag" is totally off the wall and smacks of another agenda or chip on ones shoulder.

You don't need previous to be a scumbag.

Knifing one person 8 times and another a few times as well as knifing the girl in the back is scummy.

FlutterinBantam

gurramok wrote: »

You don't need previous to be a scumbag.

Knifing one person 8 times and another a few times as well as knifing the girl in the back is scummy.

Maybe we need the definition of a "scumbag" and "scummy"


Knifing someone is most definitely criminal in the extreme and indeed
a most serious and heinous crime.

However rightly or wrongly I would not describe the perp as a scumbag.

zuroph

It seems we're all agreeing, just that we have different definitions of the word scumbag.

Cianos

What this thread needs is a clear definition of the word "scumbag"...trying to define the person involved in this case against a word that everyone has a different idea of is just a waste of time.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Maybe we need the definition of a "scumbag" and "scummy"


Knifing someone is most definitely criminal in the extreme and indeed
a most serious and heinous crime.

However rightly or wrongly I would not describe the perp as a scumbag.

He murdered an innocent man and attempted murder another 2 people leaving them with possible life long injuries, thats a scumbag been scummy

FlutterinBantam

gurramok wrote: »

He murdered an innocent man and attempted murder another 2 people leaving them with possible life long injuries, thats a scumbag been scummy

To me that's a person who probably needed help murdering an innocent person and injuring others.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

To me that's a person who probably needed help murdering an innocent person and injuring others.

So anyone who murders anyone needs help?

FlutterinBantam

I didn't say that.

Micilin Muc

gurramok wrote: »

So anyone who murders anyone needs help?

What's your argument?

walshb

Knife crime applies to all families from all walks of life.
The killer was demented and suffering from jealousy
and depression and Gardai believe he planned it.
He is a murderer, plain and simple, and no matter where
someone is from, their environment, education etc, they all
can be prone to evil crimes.

lostexpectation

Cianos wrote: »

What this thread needs is a clear definition of the word "scumbag"...trying to define the person involved in this case against a word that everyone has a different idea of is just a waste of time.

this thread is not about that word

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I didn't say that.

FlutterinBantam wrote:

To me that's a person who probably needed help murdering an innocent person and injuring others

Its clear above.

Micilin Muc wrote: »

What's your argument?

No excuse for murder especially in this case. The perpetrator in this case committed suicide as in my view knew what he had done wrong and knew he would face life behind bars for the crime so took the cowardly way out.

Also, he was clear on intent on murdering the brother who had nothing to do with this so called 'love triangle', the intent to kill anyone who got in his way was there.

fryup

FFS can someone lock this thread, its over-stepping the mark big time esp this week of all weeks ...with the post mortems, investigations, family funerals etc

FlutterinBantam

gurramok wrote: »

Its clear above.



No excuse for murder especially in this case. The perpetrator in this case committed suicide as in my view knew what he had done wrong and knew he would face life behind bars for the crime so took the cowardly way out.

Also, he was clear on intent on murdering the brother who had nothing to do with this so called 'love triangle', the intent to kill anyone who got in his way was there.

You seem to have a problem with English.

Anyway I concur with Fryups next post.

Time for a lock

_blank_

Turns out the dude went and bought the knives before stabbing his so called mates.

He had malice aforethought.

This wasn't a crime of passion.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with English.

Where?

Riskymove

Des wrote: »

Turns out the dude went and bought the knives before stabbing his so called mates.

He had malice aforethought.

This wasn't a crime of passion.

I agree, a crime of passion for me is something that happens in the heat of the moment, a row that gets out of hand etc

not this

he clearly planned it all and , as I said earlier, anyone who decides on this course of action as a solution to some issues cannot be rational or balanced, whether thats "mentally ill" or not I'll leave to experts

FlutterinBantam

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

To me that's a person who probably needed help murdering an innocent person and injuring others.

gurramok wrote: »

So anyone who murders anyone needs help?

There.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There.

Stabbing someone to death is murder as in this case.

You are making an exception here saying 'the person needed help' yet you have a problem classifying anyone else who stabs people to death as 'needing help too'.

Hypocrisy?

Riskymove

gurramok wrote: »

Stabbing someone to death is murder as in this case.

You are making an exception here saying 'the person needed help' yet you have a problem classifying anyone else who stabs people to death as 'needing help too'.

Hypocrisy?

I think you are reading his sentence wrongly

I think he means that "this person" was probably a "person who needed help" and ended up murdering an innocent person

I dont see where he suggests "anyone" who commits murder needs help

Dancor

Have not read the whole thread but enough to know some people here need to take their heads out of their asses.

Addict holds someone at knifepoint and robs them but does not physically harm them. By all accounts and every other after hours thread that person is a scumbag.

This lad murders his ''best mate'' and leaves a blade sticking in the back of a woman and people are giving him the benefit of the doubt

Hagar

Going in circles folks, going in circles.

Terry

dancor wrote: »

Have not read the whole thread but enough to know some people here need to take their heads out of their asses.

Addict holds someone at knifepoint and robs them but does not physically harm them. By all accounts and every other after hours thread that person is a scumbag.

This lad murders his ''best mate'' and leaves a blade sticking in the back of a woman and people are giving him the benefit of the doubt

Where is knifepoint?