[Article] Coca-Cola cargo restores port rail traffic

Judgement Day

Nostradamus wrote: »

The containers have to be taken off the trains put on truck and driven through the streets of Ballina.

Mind you, that's nothing compared to when Asahi was up and running and tanks filled with incredibly dangerous chemicals were being lifted off trains and driven through the town streets. There used to be a wind sock in the rail yard (pole still there) as it was only safe to move the tankers to Asahi when the wind was blowing a certain direction. I kid you not.

Now get this. There was a line almost completely intact running from Ballina yard to Asahi (Killaha Branch) which would have meant the tankers moved directly into the factory - but the town councillors, TD's, parish priests and the usual gombeens PREVENTED THIS FROM HAPPENING AS THEY WANTED THE TRUCK DRIVERS IN BALLINA TO HAVE JOBS MOVING THE TANKS.

But potentially killing the entire population of Ballina was alright to them in the interests of "Savin Dah West!"

As usual Nostradamus you have your facts all mixed up. Asahi was located 8 miles (!) north of Ballina at Killala. The line to Killala was torn up in the 1930s with just under half a mile of it retained as a freight yard in Ballina. The trackbed within Ballina had houses built on it! The track was NOT almost intact - it was long, long gone - and there was no alternative to trucking the chemicals the last 8 miles to the plant. Would it have been better to truck them through every town and village between Dublin Port and Ballina instead of just the last eight miles? The only incident that I am aware of involving Asahi was the minor derailment of a Dublin bound empty train at Moyvalley on the same day as the Cherryville rail crash on the 21st August 1983.


Picture of first train from Dublin/Ballina here on IRN: http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/1571/t/New-IWT-Freight-service-Dublin-Ballina.html

Nostradamus

Judgement Day you really are something else. There is ONE house on Lord Edward Street which is built on the Killaha Branch. In the 1970s when Asahi was built it was a clear run all the way from this house's backgarden to the plant. It was built in the 1950's. It could of been CPO-ed and Asahi wanted to do this to run trains into the plant from Ballina.

It was refused by the CoCo. There was all kinds of Gombeen Overdrive Tactics and well known Mayo political family at the time stopping the spur to the plant form being open.

Can you please explain to me what else in my post was untrue?

Was the windsock to land aircraft in the yard?


You haven't a clue about how politics works in Mayo.

Do you want me to take a photo from the old yard on Lord Edward street to see just how much of an obsctruction a small 1950's bunglalow was to a complete rail connection into Asahi? I am there most days.

Like I said, you are more than welcome to come up and I'll give you a real education. You lot did not believe me about the gardens and driveways built on the Burma Road until myself and "Scoop" Wheeler posted the photos. Even then you still could not accept that the opressed people of the West would care so little about a rail line which was to save their future generations from famine and misery.

Get a clue FFS. There was only one thing between Ballina Yard and Asahi and that was a FF family who for almost 20 years played Russian Roulette with the health and safety of the people they claimed to represent.

murphaph

Neworder79 wrote: »

There were a group medical companies based in Mayo including Allergan, Baxter and Hoillister who met Brian Cowen earlier this year to campaign for the N5 upgrades to go ahead. Their argument was that they support over 3000 direct jobs in the county with exports of €3bn, and that poor road infrastructure, particularly through Roscommon, meant significant extra costs in their haulage and extra packaging costs to protect products, threatening long-term viability.

Strange place to locate in the first place then....

Nostradamus

murphaph wrote: »

Strange place to locate in the first place then....

Therein lies the real story.

Judgement Day

The containers have to be taken off the trains put on truck and driven through the streets of Ballina.

Mind you, that's nothing compared to when Asahi was up and running and tanks filled with incredibly dangerous chemicals were being lifted off trains and driven through the town streets. There used to be a wind sock in the rail yard (pole still there) as it was only safe to move the tankers to Asahi when the wind was blowing a certain direction. I kid you not.

Now get this. There was a line almost completely intact running from Ballina yard to Asahi (Killaha Branch) which would have meant the tankers moved directly into the factory - but the town councillors, TD's, parish priests and the usual gombeens PREVENTED THIS FROM HAPPENING AS THEY WANTED THE TRUCK DRIVERS IN BALLINA TO HAVE JOBS MOVING THE TANKS.

When Asahi was established in 1974 (operations commenced in 1977) I was disappointed that the Killala branch was not going to be reinstated but have always assumed that it was on the basis of cost - perhaps you could give me a link that proves it was due to machinations of Mayo Co.Council rather than cost. To state that there was a line almost completely intact to Asahi is stretching things as far as I'm concerned. There might have been a few lengths of surviving lineside fencing, a rotten telegraph pole here or there and that was the sum of it. I have looked at the route, in the distant past, in my capacity as a train spotter so am familiar with the terrain. I will take you up on your offer to show me around if I find myself on the IRRS "Bord Snip Nua" Ballina Farewell tour - who knows we may find common ground somewhere - a pint of Guinness perchance or Ginger Beer?

PS Windsocks are normal safety procedure wherever dangerous chemicals are handled - in case of leakage - I have never heard that trucks could only move between Ballina and Killala when the wind was in a certain direction and it sounds like an Urban Rural Myth.

Smithzer

Originally Posted by Nostradamus
A mate of mine works at CocaCola and they send and get nearly all their freight by road. The rail stuff is some deal they get and the traffic is tiny to the point were it just token stuff. I have to ask him about this freight expansion as from what he tells me business in down.

I am actually intrigued about how much of that freight to Ballina is not empty contrainers being run back and forth constantly. Not impling anything. But I have seen the same container serial numbers in the Yard at ballina on the same wagons serial numbers on consecutive arriving trains.


Waterford line is used to stock up Coca Cola's outside storage facility in Waterford, this is why you see the same box numbers on the line.

westtip

Nostradamus wrote: »

But potentially killing the entire population of Ballina was alright to them in the interests of "Savin Dah West!"

What a result that would have been ........

.........(sorry only joking before everyone comes down on me)

Anyone feel this thread is getting the feel and flavour of you know WOT.

Nostradamus

Judgement Day wrote: »

perhaps you could give me a link that proves it was due to machinations of Mayo Co.Council rather than cost.

Can't, not a hope in hell of providing links, evidence etc. But everyone in Ballina of a certain age group has told me that the Killaha branch land was bought up when Asahi was setting up operation by a certain family who had the scoop and who made sure it did not happen. Either they are all liars or you know better than them.

Judgement Day wrote: »

To state that there was a line almost completely intact to Asahi is stretching things as far as I'm concerned. There might have been a few lengths of surviving lineside fencing, a rotten telegraph pole here or there and that was the sum of it. I have looked at the route, in the distant past, in my capacity as a train spotter so am familiar with the terrain.

In the early 1970's there was one house on Lord Edward Street and a few cows and sheep to move out of the way and the caontainers could of went right from the portside into the Asahi plant directly. No shunting or transfer to trucks. Asahi WANTED TO DO THIS!

Judgement Day wrote: »

I will take you up on your offer to show me around if I find myself on the IRRS "Bord Snip Nua" Ballina Farewell tour - who knows we may find common ground somewhere - a pint of Guinness perchance or Ginger Beer?

No worries. Let me know when.

Judgement Day wrote: »

PS Windsocks are normal safety procedure wherever dangerous chemicals are handled - in case of leakage - I have never heard that trucks could only move between Ballina and Killala when the wind was in a certain direction and it sounds like an Urban Rural Myth.

Again you are missquoting - do you have reading comprehension issues? The windsock was for the yard was so that when the containers of deadly A__________________ (whatever it's called?) being transferred from trains to trucks the wind had to be blowing away from the town in case a container fell on the ground and contents leaked out. The stuff was that deadly.

This bizarre and extremely dangerous procedure should not have been allowed to take place in an urban area. Around the same time the Saveso disaster happened in Italy. There was a major social and political issues surrounding such chemicals around residential areas.

Not in Ballina! Politics and the gombeen expediency came first at the potential risk of the citizens lives. The same tossers who forced Asahi to move the chemicals through Ballina via trucks by shutting off access to the rail branch would be the same types who stood in church halls and screamed about the "dead hand of Dublin!" while their tupees were half hanging off.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

Nostradamus

Smithzer wrote: »

Waterford line is used to stock up Coca Cola's outside storage facility in Waterford, this is why you see the same box numbers on the line.

There is the answer so. Thanks.

dowlingm

Nostradamus wrote: »

The windsock was for the yard was so that when the containers of deadly A__________________ (whatever it's called?)

Acrylonitrile

Also, re: the question above on Tractive Effort - this is also known as Tractive Force. Being a force, SI derived units are newtons (expressed in kilonewtons - kN)

monument

StephenM_smc wrote: »

About 3km, and I guess by truck.

That's right. It's under 3km from the gates of the factory to the station / rail yard.

Nostradamus wrote: »

The containers have to be taken off the trains put on truck and driven through the streets of Ballina.

The trucks have to drive via a residential road and town streets, but it's only 3km straight down a few connecting roads / streets.

Nostradamus wrote: »

Now get this. There was a line almost completely intact running from Ballina yard to Asahi (Killaha Branch) which would have meant the tankers moved directly into the factory ...

Is "almost completely intact" not a stretch? Even for when Asahi first arrived?

The Coca-Cola factory is right beside the old alignment, but the 3km from the station to the factory is probably now the most built on section of the old line.

Run_to_da_hills

I caught a glimpse of 076 hauling this service to Ballina yesterday morning around 10:35. It's great to see container freight running again.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I agree they are a far better loco. I could eventually see them being tied up on passenger work when all the 201's are taken out of service, ten of them are already sitting up idle in yards. The smaller 141/181's & 121's would also have been perfect for the job.

Lets be realistic here. The youngest small GMs are 43 years old (181s) with the oldest being 48 (121s). That's a hell of a long time to get out of a diesel locomotive, even the A class didn't last that long. They couldn't have been kept running forever.

Also, the reason that some 201s are in storage is because they can't operate push-pull passenger trains, but neither can the 071s. Ok, technically they can but they're not permitted to, probably due to a lack of in-cab door controls but I'd say the coupling is an issue just as it is with 201-205 and 210-214. They're also limited to 90mph. However they are good for freight services and have better route availability so it makes sense to hold on to them.

I've also heard on fairly good authority that consideration was made to store the 6 un-overhauled (is that a word?) 071s instead, but pressure would have been put on IE to scrap them whereas they won't be pressured to scrap 15 year old locos.

Judgement Day

'I've also heard on fairly good authority that consideration was made to store the 6 un-overhauled (is that a word?) 071s instead, but pressure would have been put on IE to scrap them whereas they won't be pressured to scrap 15 year old locos. '

Can you expand on this please? Exactly who would have been putting pressure on to scrap locomotives?

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

'I've also heard on fairly good authority that consideration was made to store the 6 un-overhauled (is that a word?) 071s instead, but pressure would have been put on IE to scrap them whereas they won't be pressured to scrap 15 year old locos. '

Can you expand on this please? Exactly who would have been putting pressure on to scrap locomotives?

I'm basically just repeating what I was told but I know a couple of people working in IE and that's what they said to me.

Nostradamus

monument wrote: »

That's right. It's under 3km from the gates of the factory to the station / rail yard.



The trucks have to drive via a residential road and town streets, but it's only 3km straight down a few connecting roads / streets.



Is "almost completely intact" not a stretch? Even for when Asahi first arrived?

The Coca-Cola factory is right beside the old alignment, but the 3km from the station to the factory is probably now the most built on section of the old line.

You lost me here mate. I was talking about Asahi in the 1970's - not this new Cola run.

monument

Nostradamus wrote: »

You lost me here mate. I was talking about Asahi in the 1970's - not this new Cola run.

Thus, why I asked...

Is "almost completely intact" not a stretch? Even for when Asahi first arrived?

Nostradamus

monument wrote: »

Thus, why I asked...

Is "almost completely intact" not a stretch? Even for when Asahi first arrived?

No the alingment was was clear all the way from the back garden of the bungalow on Lord Edward Street to the Asahi plant. Few farmers fences, bridges missing, but no major obstcles.

Judgement Day

Sorry for coming back on this Nostradamus but is this what you are actually saying: Asahi wanted to build (and presumably pay) to bring the railway back to Killala but Mayo Co.Council and some FF'rs prevented it so that their friends could get the contract to move the containers etc to and from the plant? Seems to be stretching credibility a bit - surely the people of Killala would have been anxious to have their railway back to the town?

monument

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sorry for coming back on this Nostradamus but is this what you are actually saying: Asahi wanted to build (and presumably pay) to bring the railway back to Killala but Mayo Co.Council and some FF'rs prevented it so that their friends could get the contract to move the containers etc to and from the plant? Seems to be stretching credibility a bit - surely the people of Killala would have been anxious to have their railway back to the town?

With some of the few things which have surfaced about politics in Ireland, you'll have to add in the Easter bunny before you're stretching what politicians will or will not do.

Empire o de Sun

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.497534,-7.440464&spn=0.001669,0.005681&t=h&z=18

looks like someone has built a house and garden on the Athlone to Mullingar line.

KC61

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.497534,-7.440464&spn=0.001669,0.005681&t=h&z=18

looks like someone has built a house and garden on the Athlone to Mullingar line.

I think you'll find they've not!

The line and permanent way are still intact.

T Corolla

Nostradamus wrote: »

I walked the whole route early in the summer. The route is in good condition. If for fright only it could be relaid on the cheap. All it would take is a it of moxy.

Been there done that in 2008 took it in three section. I walked from Mullingar station to the old station in Castletown Second time from Castletown to Moate and third time from Moate to Athlone. I agree with you it is in good order but needs new tracks could be transferrable for 100 million

dowlingm

I don't have the track mileage numbers but I reckon based on Google Maps it would be a bit shorter than Ennis-Athenry, which is 62km by road vs 51 Mullingar-Moate-Athlone. I don't know about the number of LCs that might need to be dealt with but surely the only passenger platform would be Moate? (Then again I never thought they would be mad enough to put stops between Gort and Athenry...)

Nostradamus

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sorry for coming back on this Nostradamus but is this what you are actually saying: Asahi wanted to build (and presumably pay) to bring the railway back to Killala but Mayo Co.Council and some FF'rs prevented it so that their friends could get the contract to move the containers etc to and from the plant?

Isn't always exciting when you see a moth turn into a butterfly.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Seems to be stretching credibility a bit - surely the people of Killala would have been anxious to have their railway back to the town?

The "people" were not getting a rail service! Killala was and is still a tiny village. For god's sake it was an industrial reopening which Asahi would of paid for to offset their public liability insurance as they knew they would be there for a couple of decades with the investment they made. Just like what happened around the same time down in Ballincourty. Except down in Waterford, no local gombeen family bought up the land the line was on to prevent it from happening.

Acrylonitrile wasn't the only thing Asahi was moving by rail. They were getting oil from Oranmore, coal from Foynes, conatainers filled with spares and parts from Japan via Waterford, heavy machinery and waste coming in and out. AND ALL OF IT BEING TRUCKED THROUGH THE STREETS OF BALLINA when it could of all been going right into the factory by rail.

What part of this are you not getting JD. I am trying to be as nice as possible with you.

Nostradamus

T Corolla wrote: »

Been there done that in 2008 took it in three section. I walked from Mullingar station to the old station in Castletown Second time from Castletown to Moate and third time from Moate to Athlone. I agree with you it is in good order but needs new tracks could be transferrable for 100 million

For freight only, much cheaper than that. The entire lenght could be classified as a Engineers Siding and relaid accrodingly. Not CTC or complex technology needed.

Nostradamus

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.497534,-7.440464&spn=0.001669,0.005681&t=h&z=18

looks like someone has built a house and garden on the Athlone to Mullingar line.

It's a short tunnel/long bridge.

You should consider working for Hans Blix.

T Corolla

Nostradamus wrote: »

For freight only, much cheaper than that. The entire lenght could be classified as a Engineers Siding and relaid accrodingly. Not CTC or complex technology needed.

I have seen the 071 pulling the spray train across the line in the last few months as it was pull up in mullingar for a few hours. I take on board your opinion and say that even if the line was relayed it would be a big step forward in getting it opened for intercity services

Nostradamus

T Corolla wrote: »

I have seen the 071 pulling the spray train across the line in the last few months as it was pull up in mullingar for a few hours. I take on board your opinion and say that even if the line was relayed it would be a big step forward in getting it opened for intercity services

Be great to see it happening. But just like CIE developing with rural bus services in the West, the Government/CIE are using the sacred WRC as a reason to keep Athlone-Mullingar out of sight and out of mind.

Keep the Sheep longing for the Ennis-Coolooney Magical Leprecaurn Railway and they'll forget other more useful lines.

Empire o de Sun

Nostradamus wrote: »

It's a short tunnel/long bridge.

You should consider working for Hans Blix.

Well that's good. But CIE or IÉ should make some more effort to protect other old railway alignments.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.659562,-6.723236&spn=0.003427,0.011362&t=k&z=17

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.675704,-6.757804&spn=0.003425,0.011362&t=k&z=17

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.68354,-6.778194&spn=0.001712,0.005681&t=k&z=18

L1011

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Well that's good. But CIE or IÉ should make some more effort to protect other old railway alignments.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.659562,-6.723236&spn=0.003427,0.011362&t=k&z=17

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.675704,-6.757804&spn=0.003425,0.011362&t=k&z=17

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.68354,-6.778194&spn=0.001712,0.005681&t=k&z=18

I would take it that they do not own that alignment. They clearly still own Athlone->Mullingar.

Victor

The Killala railway is dead! Long live the Killala railway!

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=54.126085~-9.162598&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

Wasn't it actually only a tramway? Which, it now seems to have a few housing estates also. http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx

And what possessed Asahi to build there? One-for-everyone-in-the-audience politics?

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Wasn't it actually only a tramway? Which, it now seems to have a few housing estates also. http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx

According to this 1906 map it was a tramway/light railway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_Rail_Ireland_Viceregal_Commission_1906.jpg

Judgement Day

I don't know quite what we are arguing about here - the MGWR branchline from Ballina to Killala was a standard gauge conventional extension to the railway from Dublin/Ballina. It would have received British Govt. funding under a Tramways & Light Railway Act of 1880s..as did other 'nominally' light railways - Galway/Clifden, Westport/Achill, Headfort Junction/Kenmare and Gortalea Junction/Castleisland etc - it does not mean it was a tramway! There were a number of Tramways & Light Railway Acts in the 1880s/1890s designed be part of Balfour's 'killing Home Rule by kindness.' The acts encouraged investors to back railway building schemes in poor areas of the country and were usually underwritten by the rate payers of the areas that the lines passed through. The ratepayers guaranteed a % dividend to the investors annually regardless of whether the railway made a profit or not! Just like something Fianna Fail would dream up!

I've often heard people refer to all light railways as tramways, I'm guessing this is what is being referred to. I even heard someone say that the North Kerry line was a tramway though the 1906 map doesn't mention it being a light railway.

Judgement Day

As far as I know the North Kerry (Tralee/Limerick) line was largely opened before the advent of the various Tramway & Light Railway Acts. Again none of the route could in any way be described as a tramway.